Who Produces Players for England?

mo0

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a pretty interesting list on the surface that highlights a few of the issues that need to be fixed within the current Premier League. only goes to emphasise the excellent work of the United academy over the many decades:

Who Produces English Youth Players?

Top 10 Clubs Producing English Talent

  1. Chelsea
  2. Manchester United
  3. Arsenal
  4. Middlesbrough
  5. Liverpool
  6. Manchester City
  7. West Brom
  8. Everton
  9. West Ham
  10. Aston Villa

Keep in mind, this is in the current England youth climate...so it doesn't take into account all of the superb work that @MrMujac and @ManUnitedYouth do on the historical front.

Good debate should be around presentable opportunities - especially around, say, a Chelsea or Manchester City...where their version of 'youth' is buying a player from abroad.

Anyway - indulge.
 
Current squad:

Hart - Man City
Green - Norwich
Butland - Birmingham

Johnson - West Ham
Kelly - Liverpool
Terry - Chelsea
Lescott - Wolves
Jagielka - Sheff Utd
Cole - Arsenal
Jones - Blackburn
Baines - Wigan

Walcott - Southampton
Oxlaid - Southampton
Milner - Leeds
Gerrard - Liverpool
Parker - Charlton
Henderson - Sunderland
Young - Watford
Downing - Middlesbrough

Rooney - Everton
Defoe - West Ham
Carroll - Newcastle
Welbeck - United

Absentees:
Arsenal: Wilshere
Aston Villa: Cahill, Barry
Leeds: Lennon
Maidstone Utd: Smalling
Man City: Richards, Sturridge
Man Utd: Cleverley, Scholes
Middlesbrough - Johnson
Sheff Utd: Walker
West Ham: Ferdinand, Lampard, Carrick, J Cole

Pretty varied in terms of our current players. West Ham are usually well represented but that seems to have dried up a bit. Will be interesting to see where the next generation of players will come from.
 
mo0 said:
Good debate should be around presentable opportunities - especially around, say, a Chelsea or Manchester City...where their version of 'youth' is buying a player from abroad.

Anyway - indulge.
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To be fair, we do that as well, don't we? Do Chelsea and City bring in more foreigners to their academy than we do? I don't know the numbers, but my guess would be that we are quite similar.
 
Interesting that Chelsea have so many players representing England at youth level. Can't help but worry that they don't have a culture of nurturing young talent and these players may not get the game time at the adequate standard needed to bring them through.

If these are the players with youth international experience it may take longer for the English talents that do make it in the game to achieve the level of experience needed to perform at that level.

Although part of me can't help but be cynical and speculate about the (at least perceived) bias towards players with better physical attributes and wonder if these young lads are actually the most talented or the most physically mature and are more likely to not have premier league potential anyway. (Because they have poorer technique than the smaller lads who took longer to mature physically)
 
Joe Hart started off at Shrewsbury Town... just saying.
But it seems quite evenly split, not one team really having the majority over another.
 
When do you take the start of their career from though? There aren't many footballers who've been at one club their whole life. Tom Cleverley and Ryan Giggs weren't United players until they were about twelve. We've also got the players who came from lower league clubs at 15/16 etc. Most clubs will. What you can say is that a number of players in our youth setup make it to professional level, and a number will play in the PL.
 
Liam147 said:
When do you take the start of their career from though? There aren't many footballers who've been at one club their whole life. Tom Cleverley and Ryan Giggs weren't United players until they were about twelve. We've also got the players who came from lower league clubs at 15/16 etc. Most clubs will. What you can say is that a number of players in our youth setup make it to professional level, and a number will play in the PL.
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I'd say their start would be the club they break through the youth team with, the team that they actually sign professional contracts with.
 
Most of those players won't even make it, although it is interesting to see how much English youth Chelsea has been stockpiling.
 
The key thing to producing players for England is not the big clubs, its in fact all the coaches of the kids from ages 5-12 or so. The really ugly reality now is that you wont ever see some 12 year old who decides to start to play at age 12 and go on to become a pro player in the big leagues. These days if a kid doesnt have a nicely tuned skill set by the age of 12 then he wont ever get near the top.
So the big producers of the best players for England are the coaches doing the work at the younger age groups, they help set the standards and habits for the players.
Improve the coaches at this level and better players will appear out the top.
 
Eirik Raude said:
To be fair, we do that as well, don't we? Do Chelsea and City bring in more foreigners to their academy than we do? I don't know the numbers, but my guess would be that we are quite similar.
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our current U18 batch has a fair number of them for this coming season. yet our path of progression is far more open and attainable than the two clubs listed (Chelsea and City). how frustrating it must be for a young English midfield player looking to get a chance given all whom they've just gone and purchased (Marin, Hazard, De Bruyne, etc.).


Drainy said:
Although part of me can't help but be cynical and speculate about the (at least perceived) bias towards players with better physical attributes and wonder if these young lads are actually the most talented or the most physically mature and are more likely to not have premier league potential anyway. (Because they have poorer technique than the smaller lads who took longer to mature physically)
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your cynicism isn't a lone voice - but this is something that is slowly changing, but won't change overnight. Tom Carroll at Spurs, for example, is a player who belies the tall/physical attribute tag. you'll find that most of the top clubs also pick 'the package' over the brutish types. those who are exceedingly large and in charge get weeded out in the youth ranks over time.

bosnian_red said:
Joe Hart started off at Shrewsbury Town... just saying.
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Jack Wilshere started at Luton :) but on Shrewsbury, i can't dig it up, but had a great article from their GK coach around the amount of #1's they're producing for club and country. very interesting read!


Liam147 said:
When do you take the start of their career from though? There aren't many footballers who've been at one club their whole life.
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to the above point of Wilshere at Luton - a lot of players change hands from U11-14. the list really focuses on where they were as a schoolboy and when they were capped.
 
Jack Wilshere joined Arsenal from Luton aged 9, Joe Hart joined City from Shrewsbury aged 19. I'd say those situations are completely different in fainess.

We can't start saying we produced De Gea even though we signed him at the same age as City signed Hart
 
Historically a youth player was 'defined' as someone who had never played first team before with another club and had not signed a pro contract...so anyone under 17 could be defined as a youth player.

Also historically, you couldn't sign a player before he left school so the age range for 'Youth Product' was 15-18.

When I do my stats I only use these definitions.

Further to the original OP...there were loads of United players missing off the list such as Fryers, Amos, Lingard, Tunnicliffe etc
 
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