Where would the classic liberos play in the modern game?

Physiocrat

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I'm thinking of players like Beckenbauer, Scriea, Koeman, Sammer, Passarella etc.

I think Der Kaiser would be DLP of sorts most likely. Sammer a B2B midfielder.

I'm not sure about Scriea especially.
 
Physiocrat said:
I'm thinking of players like Beckenbauer, Scriea, Koeman, Sammer, Passarella etc.

I think Der Kaiser would be DLP of sorts most likely. Sammer a B2B midfielder.

I'm not sure about Scriea especially.
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Almost exclusively in a CM role of course but I think each player would offer something different. B2B, DLP, Anchor.

Don’t think it’s a one size fits all.
 
I genuinely hope the role of a libero comes back. I think someone like Conte or Guardiola can do wonders with Beckenbauer at their helm. (Anyone can of course, it's the Kaiser duh, but they would be the best managers to groom a team around him IMO).

Modern football would make sure they end up as either attacking midfielders or ball playing CBs though IMO. Probably because players are groomed from a very young age based on their skill sets in 1 role.

DLP is an obvious shout of course and no surprise if they ended like one.
 
I actually think that a lot of them would play in a similar role today — unlike, say, 10-15 years ago.

Beckenbauer — obviously can play anywhere he wants but I would kill to see him play for one of Pep’s teams. If not as a center back with full creative freedom than I can see him excelling in De Jong’s role at Ajax.

Baresi — obviously a CB
Koeman — a CB, ideally in a back 3, I’d imagine
Scirea — a covering playmaking center back
Sammer — most likely in midfield
Passarella — CB in the mould of Lucio
Figueroa — complete CB a la van Dijk
 
Physiocrat said:
Who do you think would go where?
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I mean perhaps in the modern game some would stay where they are as a modern ball playing CB? That said Sammer for instance would be wasted staying in the back line and would be a B2B.

On the flip side do you see any old school DMs playing in a modern day back line as a ball playing CB given physicality, whilst important, is probably less than it once was? In comparison to technical skills.
 
No one mentioned Rudy Krol, I'm completely heartbroken. Krol would be "super cheat code" in Guardiola's system, he's a perfect modern center-back in Pep's tactics. Even in his playing days, he played under a revolutionary manager like Rinus Michels or a master tactician like Ernst Happlel, which was probably ahead of that time and Krol's style of playing( never afraid of challenging) was almost similar to a typical left-side center-back(not a pure libero).

 
General_Elegancia said:
No one mentioned Rudy Krol, I'm completely heartbroken. Krol would be "super cheat code" in Guardiola's system, he's a perfect modern center-back in Pep's tactics. Even in his playing days, he played under a revolutionary manager like Rinus Michels or a master tactician like Ernst Happlel, which was probably ahead of that time and Krol's style of playing( never afraid of challenging) was almost similar to a typical left-side center-back(not a pure libero).

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I reckon Krol would be an inverted left-back in a Pep side rather than a CB.

I ignored him in the OP as LB is generally considered his peak position.
 
I think it depends on that person. Although they were libero/sweeper, they played in very different tactics and under different managers/circumstances. I still think all of them would be fine in any era of football.

Franz Beckenbauer- This man can play anywhere from center-back to right-box to box midfielder in 4-3-3, he's a very versatile player and would have no problem in today game for sure. I think he could still be center-back in modern days or defensive midfielder in Guardiola's tactics( he would be an upgraded on Rodri or peak Fernandinho), a deep lying playmaker, a double pivot in 4-2-3-1( imho, he fits best in that role, if he plays as midfielder in today game) or a right box to box midfielder in 4-3-3.

Scirea- In this era, which defenders are required great passing skills( both long and short) especially from the back to operate the game. He will fit as ball-playing defender for sure. Put him with another center-back with tremendous strength and sublime in the air and he will still dominate the game like he did in his era. Another possible position for him would be dmf or deep lying playmaker.

Passarella- Probably a modern-center back in back4 like he had played under Menotti. In fact, his way of defending was almost the same as modern center-back. I see no problem with Passarella in today game, he will play superbly in today football. His heading abilities(both defending and attacking), organization, leadership and reading the game would translate well in any era. I think he will be an upgraded Sergio Ramos(in defending phase). I compare him to Ramos because both share some similar traits like great header, great leader of the game , sometimes( a lot of times) could be dirty and brutal and both have done a lot of controversial things( both on and off the pitch).

Elias Figueroa- A complete center back( similar to Van Dijk), he would be fit with anyone else in today game( from Van Dijk to another type of cb like Rudiger or De Ligt), since he could play both sweeper and stopper role. Figueroa is one of the most complete packages defenders of all time and has no weakness in his game, strong as bull, reading the game superbly and great in the air.

Sammer- Probably b2b or defensive midfielder, I don't think he will suit best at modern cb in back 4 or even central-cb in modern back3(which is very different from 3-5-2 Germany).

Koeman- He will be great ball-playing center-back in today game due to his ball-distribution( long passing) from the back and his goal scoring prowess but he needs a bit of fast-defenders to cover his weakness( pace and accleration) both in back3 and back4.

Krol (libero version)- He would be "super cheat code" in Guardiola's system, he's a perfect modern center-back in Pep's tactics( imho). Even in his playing days, he played under a revolutionary manager like Rinus Michels or a master tactician like Ernst Happlel, which was probably ahead of that time and Krol's style of playing( never afraid of challenging) was almost similar to a typical left-side center-back(not a pure libero). He has all attributes to play in modern-tactics(high line and pressing), very fast, great ball-distribution, great defensive awareness and great leadership and temperament.

Baresi- This guy would fit in any era and tactics, the greatest cb of all time.
 
I think most would just be CB's, with the occasional deep lying playmaker/defensive midfield role.

Sammer was one of many players that only transitioned into that free defender in a back 3-5/sweeper'ish role in a 4 later in his career. He spent most of it as a midfielder.

Beckenbauer is a player i probably have a sacrilegious opinion on...i love watching a great passer/ball carrier from the backline, but i feel a player of his well-rounded class should have stayed further forward where he could have had even more influence in a holding midfield role. Extensive watching of his Bayern is sometimes frustrating, their tougher games often resulted from midfield struggles that would be fixed when he starts pushing forward into deep midfield areas more, and could easily have been minimised if he'd been playing there in the first place. He was talented enough anyway to make a legend of the role he chose, but was basically W.Germany's most complete midfielder of the time and i've just never been convinced playing as a defender was the most efficient tactical use of him. Of course, Germany were so stacked with talent at the time it didn't really matter too much, especially in the national team. They could afford to experiment and having the most complete midfielder play in defence + an indefatigable ironlung/playmaker combo in midfield worked extremely well.

I would hope he'd play in a deep midfield role, though with playing as a defender seeming to be his own personal choice rather than coming from strict managerial instructions, it's likely he'd still have end up a CB.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I think most would just be CB's, with the occasional deep lying playmaker/defensive midfield role.

Sammer was one of many players that only transitioned into that free defender in a back 3-5/sweeper'ish role in a 4 later in his career. He spent most of it as a midfielder.

Beckenbauer is a player i probably have a sacrilegious opinion on...i love watching a great passer/ball carrier from the backline, but i feel a player of his well-rounded class should have stayed further forward where he could have had even more influence in a holding midfield role. Extensive watching of his Bayern is sometimes frustrating, their tougher games often resulted from midfield struggles that would be fixed when he starts pushing forward into deep midfield areas more, and could easily have been minimised if he'd been playing there in the first place. He was talented enough anyway to make a legend of the role he chose, but was basically W.Germany's most complete midfielder of the time and i've just never been convinced playing as a defender was the most efficient tactical use of him. Of course, Germany were so stacked with talent at the time it didn't really matter too much, especially in the national team. They could afford to experiment and having the most complete midfielder play in defence + an indefatigable ironlung/playmaker combo in midfield worked extremely well.

I would hope he'd play in a deep midfield role, though with playing as a defender seeming to be his own personal choice rather than coming from strict managerial instructions, it's likely he'd still have end up a CB.
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Would absolutely agree 100 percents in Bayern’s Munchen 70s. They had one of the best gk in the world( Maier), the best defenders in world( Franz) and the best striker in the world( Gerd Muller) but the things they lacked were great quality of midfielders especially in term of ball-retention and passing skills. Roth, Rainer Zobel and Kappelman were workhorses who worked really hard off the ball but couldn’t create something from the central area and that’s why they had history of losing in midfield battles. In fact, Beckenbauer and Muller often went to the central area to support their midfielders, Muller even played at dmf sometimes in European Cup( vs Leeds and Saint-Etienne in 1975) or something like b2b in some games of Bundesliga or European competitions. I think he would be even scored more, if he had a better midfield platform( like NT) to support him( 68 goals in 62games). Roth, Zobel and Kappleman were never called in West Germany squad for important tournaments like Euro and World Cup.
 
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Depends on who gets their hands on 'em, probably — their skill sets will not be appreciated by everyone! In the contemporary game, ten Hag (as well Guardiola) might be the perfect manager(s) for most of them. Over the course of his Ajax stint, the former displayed a great appetite for progressive risk-taking and was atypically versatile in terms of his orientations and build-up schemes, while training a wide variety of central defensive players with disparate characteristics: not the quickest or the most physical (Daley Blind), on the shorter side at 5'9"-5'10" (Lisandro Martínez and Jurriën Timber), switched from defense to midfield (Frenkie de Jong), of course conventionally complete ones that are easy to incorporate (Matthijs de Ligt), and even nominal full-backs or midfielders playing in the heart of defense (Nicolás Tagliafico and Edson Álvarez). In comparison, someone like Klopp (while obviously a top, top coach and far more accomplished) sticks to a loosely-defined but perceptible heightist prototype from his Dortmund days when you consider the likes of Hummels, Subotić, van Dijk and Matip.

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  • Passarella would be an improved version of Martínez at left center-back in the 2021—22 team.
  • Like de Jong, Beckenbauer would excel in a midfield libero role in the 2018—19 team.
  • Krol would be an improved version of Blind at left-back in the 2021—22 team or center-back in the 2018—19 team.
  • Scirea would be an improved version of Blind at center-back in the 2018—19 team.
  • Figueroa and Baresi would be improved versions of de Ligt in the 2018—19 team and Timber in the 2021—22 team.
  • I'm sure he would find a way to incorporate Sammer in midfield as well, like as an improved version of Gravenberch.
On a side note, there are other roles where the players' abilities would have been accentuated under ten Hag (in comparison with the vast majority of coaches): point forward, deep-lying forward, underlapping or inverted fullback, outside-left or outside-right, wide central-midfielder, deep-lying playmaker.
 
Depends on the profile, someone like scrira was fecking immense at the pure defensive side of the game, I would go as far to say better than anyone currently playing the game so I see no reason to not play him where he used to but then someone like Beckenbauer I could see moved to a more advanced position in midfield because although he was great at the defensive side of things as well he would of more use focusing on the offensive.

All in all this guys were simply superb so so you could always just play them where the belong and build your team around that.

I also have a nagging feeling that we could see the return of the rolenin the near future (our very own Martinez could perhaps be a harbinger of sorts? ) so if that turned out to be the case you just play them as they used to be played.

On the other players you mentioned in your post I would say :

Passarella: could play both in defense and middle of the park, he was immense defensively and freakishly strong for his physique so I doubt he would face much difficulty at adjusting there, his ball advancing and general creativity should see him do well in the midfield as well.

Sammer: he's relatively modern so against i see no real as to change how he played, but if I'm not mistake he preferred to be played more advanced so I go with that(although his career highlight came playing alongside kohler in 1997 but then he had kohler next to himself so it could be a problem with a less defensively sound partner)

Koeman: I never liked the defensive part of his game so I would play him further up.
 
Nice thread idea, great contributions.
harms said:
Beckenbauer — obviously can play anywhere he wants but I would kill to see him play for one of Pep’s teams. If not as a center back with full creative freedom than I can see him excelling in De Jong’s role at Ajax.
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Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
Beckenbauer is a player i probably have a sacrilegious opinion on...i love watching a great passer/ball carrier from the backline, but i feel a player of his well-rounded class should have stayed further forward where he could have had even more influence in a holding midfield role. Extensive watching of his Bayern is sometimes frustrating, their tougher games often resulted from midfield struggles that would be fixed when he starts pushing forward into deep midfield areas more, and could easily have been minimised if he'd been playing there in the first place. He was talented enough anyway to make a legend of the role he chose, but was basically W.Germany's most complete midfielder of the time and i've just never been convinced playing as a defender was the most efficient tactical use of him.
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The Pep CB option is a natural one of course, even defensively, as his speed and sweeper capabilities are perfect for a high line. But I'm intrigued the most by the midfield roles, for the same reasons Dem has stated.

I'd love to see him in a Kroos-style 433 role, with a covering DM partner and significant vertical freedom. He could be the DLP with the game in front of him in one moment, and make an attacking BTB run the next. Imagine him doing all this, plus the superior athletic and defensive abilities compared to Kroos. I think he could seriously dominate today's game from that position.

Only caveat I'd have is his one-footedness against crazy pressing, especially in higher zones with almost zero time & space. Then again, if he played today, this habit would have probably been trained out of him at youth level. And his left foot was seriously good the ~5 times he used it.
harms said:
Figueroa — complete CB a la van Dijk
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Tbh, I've yet to see footage of him methodically taking over buildup in a libero (or VVD) fashion. Whenever I watched him, he was neat but quite reserved, except for the odd outburst. Any tips/links?

But even then I'm pretty sure he'd deliver in a VVD-like role in modern football.
 
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Synco said:
Tbh, I've yet to see footage of him methodically taking over buildup in a libero (or VVD) fashion. Whenever I watched him, he was neat but quite reserved, except for the odd outburst. Any tips/links?

But even then I'm pretty sure he'd deliver in a VVD-like role in modern football.
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Yeah, I think he was generally quite reserved in his attacking/playmaking contributions but it’s his technique and assurance that stood out — you can see it against West Germany in 74’, for example. I’m pretty sure that he had played the ball off Müller in a non-consensual one-two to later safely get it out of the box, although maybe it wasn’t even that game and my mind is playing tricks on me.
 
Synco said:
I'd love to see him in a Kroos-style 433 role, with a covering DM partner and significant vertical freedom. He could be the DLP with the game in front of him in one moment, and make an attacking BTB run the next. Imagine him doing all this, plus the superior athletic and defensive abilities compared to Kroos. I think he could seriously dominate today's game from that position.
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I always think, his 1966 version would be the perfect fit of Henderson's role in Klopp's Liverpool too. He's my ideal box-to-box midfielder.
 
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harms said:
Yeah, I think he was generally quite reserved in his attacking/playmaking contributions but it’s his technique and assurance that stood out — you can see it against West Germany in 74’, for example. I’m pretty sure that he had played the ball off Müller in a non-consensual one-two to later safely get it out of the box, although maybe it wasn’t even that game and my mind is playing tricks on me.
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Definitely, that's why I'd buy him playing in a more expansive modern CB role.

I generally prefer to seperate historical role from general abilities this way, draft-wise. Much more fun to imagine how players could be used in different ways, as long as it makes sense.
 
General_Elegancia said:
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I always think, his 1966 version would be the perfect fit of Henderson's role in Klopp's Liverpool too. He's my ideal box-to-box midfielder.
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He would be Supreme in that role but I wonder if it be a waste of his great defensive capabilities in some ways.

I'm not sure if he's as press resistant as someone like kdb either.
 
i see its Kaisers turn to be hyped into a mythical creature, as he is by far my favorite GOAT alongside Cruyff i dont mind it but its funny :D
 
Synco said:
Expand, O Sjor.
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just the Hendo comparison(fecking hendo of all people), he was nothing like him nor do i think he would be good in that role but it seems he is being viewed as elite defensive presence with grace of Iniesta and mobility of Zidane when in reality he was never really that good(nobody was really). Was brilliant mind you but his midfield version gets overrated a lot even though thats probably my favorite to watch. As a defender/libero what ever you want to call him, he was class above his midfield version.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
just the Hendo comparison(fecking hendo of all people), he was nothing like him nor do i think he would be good in that role but it seems he is being viewed as elite defensive presence with grace of Iniesta and mobility of Zidane when in reality he was never really that good(nobody was really). Was brilliant mind you but his midfield version gets overrated a lot even though thats probably my favorite to watch. As a defender/libero what ever you want to call him, he was class above his midfield version.
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Yeah he’s nothing like Hendo( so much different), they played different dynamics but I just said that he would be great/perfect fit for that role.
 
General_Elegancia said:
Yeah he’s nothing like Hendo, they played different dynamics but I just said that he would be great fit for that role.
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how when Hendo can only play that role because he is a perfect tactical fit for the role? if you have Kaiser in your team you dont want to waste him in chasing down, covering potential danger zones etc. you want him on the ball as much as possible. In that team he would be great in Thiago role, not Henderson. Just like synco said, he would be great in that "Kroos" role, upgraded Kroos role i would say :D
 
Šjor Bepo said:
just the Hendo comparison(fecking hendo of all people), he was nothing like him nor do i think he would be good in that role but it seems he is being viewed as elite defensive presence with grace of Iniesta and mobility of Zidane when in reality he was never really that good(nobody was really). Was brilliant mind you but his midfield version gets overrated a lot even though thats probably my favorite to watch. As a defender/libero what ever you want to call him, he was class above his midfield version.
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I definitely don't think he was a good as that. At the time W.Germany had midfielders that were probably better or equal than him at doing a lot of the destructive/off the ball workhorse midfield work ( Wimmer, Bonhof) and they had ones that were better on the ball, or outright attacking sense than him like Netzer, Overath, Flohe. But he was the most complete, just not necessarily absolutely needed there because of the amount of talent around. In a weaker national team/football country that didn't have international class options in almost every position, there's higher chance someone of his established midfield skillset wanting to play as a centreback or sweeper would have been seen as an overqualified luxury role, and told no, we need you further up the park where you can be more involved/decisive on the ball.

It's because i'd want him on the ball more often that i'd rather see him play further forward. Something like Kroos role as mentioned, or Jorginho/Kovacic in the Chelsea setup with expanded passing range.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
just the Hendo comparison(fecking hendo of all people), he was nothing like him nor do i think he would be good in that role but it seems he is being viewed as elite defensive presence with grace of Iniesta and mobility of Zidane when in reality he was never really that good(nobody was really). Was brilliant mind you but his midfield version gets overrated a lot even though thats probably my favorite to watch. As a defender/libero what ever you want to call him, he was class above his midfield version.
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Agree that, no matter if defense or midfield, his thing would definitely be a DLP role running the game from the back. The things he could do beyond that of course add to his greatness as a player.
 
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