Where have the strikers gone?

eire-red

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Watching Spain vs Italy, and what is crazy is the lack of quality up front for both teams.

For example, in Euro 2008, here is some of the striker line-up for Spain and Italy:
Del Piero
Luca Toni
Di Natale
David Villa
Fernando Torres.

Some other notable picks from the other squads, bearing in mind less teams in the tournament:

Benzema
Henry
Anelka
Ibrahimovic
van Nistlerooy
van Persie
Mario Gomez

There are also many that wouldn't have been standouts, but you feel would walk into many of the good squads at this tournament:

Milan Baros
Ivica Olic
Lukas Podolski
Jan Huntelaar
Dirk Kuyt
Henri Larsson
Alexander Frei

Not exactly an earth shattering list, but the difference is stark when you try and think of genuine quality up front for the 24 teams this year, outside of Kane and Mbappe.

Thoughts?
 
The move from 4-4-2 to 1 upfront with inverted wingers has halved the playing time for strikers at top clubs. United went from a squad of Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Solskjaer to Hojlund being our only fit striker, which was at least an improvement of Weghorst being our only fit striker!
 
eire-red said:
Watching Spain vs Italy, and what is crazy is the lack of quality up front for both teams.

For example, in Euro 2008, here is some of the striker line-up for Spain and Italy:
Del Piero
Luca Toni
Di Natale
David Villa
Fernando Torres.

Some other notable picks from the other squads, bearing in mind less teams in the tournament:

Benzema
Henry
Anelka
Ibrahimovic
van Nistlerooy
van Persie
Mario Gomez

There are also many that wouldn't have been standouts, but you feel would walk into many of the good squads at this tournament:

Milan Baros
Ivica Olic
Lukas Podolski
Jan Huntelaar
Dirk Kuyt
Henri Larsson
Alexander Frei

Not exactly an earth shattering list, but the difference is stark when you try and think of genuine quality up front for the 24 teams this year, outside of Kane and Mbappe.

Thoughts?
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Yeah they’re a little more scarce but also doesn’t help that Haaland is missing for Norway, best pure striker in Europe. For Sweden Gyokores and Isak also. There was a real coaching turn towards making everyone with midfielder like traits, from defence to attack, as a lot of people thought Spain 2012 was the future so this generation is lacking. Older strikers are still valued well past their peak, almost because they have been coached in skills younger players haven’t been - like Ronaldo, Benzema, Giroud, Lewandowski, Ibra, Cavani all wanted for their skills way into their 30s.

I thought when Cavani arrived here it was striking (pardon the pun) how great he was at making attacking runs and getting on the end of things. Compared to Rashford and Martial who just would never go for the balls he would.
 
The lack of quality strikers in Italy compared to the 90s and early 00s is ridiculous.

You could pick some random Serie A back up strikers for one of the big clubs from that era and they would most likely walk into this Italy team.

For example Nicola Ventola would be a starter for Italy on this Euro, someone like Marco Delvecchio would be the star of the team and prime Christian Vieri would be worth like 250 million euros today.
 
Yup, real dearth of elite level strikers today. It's not that there are no strikers around but they're just not that good. Take Vlahovic for example. Would you say he's an elite striker? I wouldn't.
 
This is hardly a new trend, been the case for a good 5-10 years. Hence why it’s so hard to sign strikers these days
 
dcrompton said:
The move from 4-4-2 to 1 upfront with inverted wingers has halved the playing time for strikers at top clubs. United went from a squad of Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Solskjaer to Hojlund being our only fit striker, which was at least an improvement of Weghorst being our only fit striker!
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Ah the good old 4-4-2... I hope it makes comeback one day, football seemed more exciting then.
 
eire-red said:
Watching Spain vs Italy, and what is crazy is the lack of quality up front for both teams.

For example, in Euro 2008, here is some of the striker line-up for Spain and Italy:
Del Piero
Luca Toni
Di Natale
David Villa
Fernando Torres.

Some other notable picks from the other squads, bearing in mind less teams in the tournament:

Benzema
Henry
Anelka
Ibrahimovic
van Nistlerooy
van Persie
Mario Gomez

There are also many that wouldn't have been standouts, but you feel would walk into many of the good squads at this tournament:

Milan Baros
Ivica Olic
Lukas Podolski
Jan Huntelaar
Dirk Kuyt
Henri Larsson
Alexander Frei

Not exactly an earth shattering list, but the difference is stark when you try and think of genuine quality up front for the 24 teams this year, outside of Kane and Mbappe.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

You can do the same for central defenders too tbf.

Defenders are now athletic; quick with a good leap, and able to pass the ball.

Centre forwards are rarer with a far greater focus on impactful wide players.

The game is played more in transition now. The area of the pitch from penalty spot to D and a few yards beyond it isn’t a battleground for centre half’s and centre forwards. It’s constant movement in there.

Athleticism above all else. It’s a bit shit. There are more goals nowadays but there not scored by the same players through the middle.
 
Change in the style of football I think and how it’s coached. Much more of an emphasis on possession retention, spacing, patterns of play etc. coupled with every team putting so much emphasis on pressing structure so you have to have an absolute workhorse upfront most times which means a lot of natural “strikers” can’t be utilized at the higher levels. Add in the fact that 2 strikers formations don’t really exist and many probably strikers probably get turned into inverted wingers and it compounds the issue.

In some ways Van Der Vaart (I think it was him) was dead on about how much emphasis is put into the running part of the game more so than the skills part. At this point if you have decent technique and brains and are a good athlete any top coach/club will want you, the position isn’t even relevant. So you get far less “specialists” who excel in a certain position and more of these amorphous footballers that can’t really create or do anything brilliant on their own but can be useful cogs within a “system”. It’s why I still love watching Madrid play. They are one of the few clubs that haven’t conformed to the “system” ideology and instead rely on elite quality at each position and the ability of the players to naturally adapt to the game state. If they need to sit depend and defend they will, if they need to dominate possession they will. But you can see the inventiveness of the players moreso than watching a footballer “follow the rules” of what he’s been told a million times by a manager
 
Holland had crazy depth when it came to world class strikers in late 90s/early 2000s.

Van Nistelrooy, Kluivert, Bergkamp, van Hooijdonk, Hasselbaink, Maakay.

How they went from this to Weghorst being the only guy for them is crazy.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
You can do the same for central defenders too tbf.

Defenders are now athletic; quick with a good leap, and able to pass the ball.

Centre forwards are rarer with a far greater focus on impactful wide players.

The game is played more in transition now. The area of the pitch from penalty spot to D and a few yards beyond it isn’t a battleground for centre half’s and centre forwards. It’s constant movement in there.

Athleticism above all else. It’s a bit shit. There are more goals nowadays but there not scored by the same players through the middle.
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Yeah sort of what I said. So much emphasis on running and “duels” that actual footballing quality gets phased out apart from the occasional freaks like a KDB that can do both. Both mostly it’s just repeatable patterns that only take decent quality and eventually the ball gets bundled in. Which is why so many are saying this Euros has been refreshing with all of the screamers scored.
 
Something to do with kids not wanting to be goal hangers, but wanting to be wingers cutting in and shooting all the time.


Quality of strikers in todays game is desperate. When the likes of Darwin Nunez fetches up on 100m there's something wrong. He's not even as good as Juan Pablo Angel.
 
The game has changed and the priorities are different. Look at American football in the 90s; every NFL team had a fullback that was vital to the offense. Now, the fullback position essentially no longer exists.

Perhaps it's the same with strikers in football. Is the future of football going to be that everyone plays with a false nine? The goalkeeper position has already seen pretty radical changes in the last decade, so it's not unreasonable to imagine that the striker position could change radically as well.

Weird to think that 25 years ago, United had four legitimate, senior strikers in the squad who all played an important role, and now we barely have one.

Think about this: Ole scored 18 goals as the third choice striker in the Treble season.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Yeah they’re a little more scarce but also doesn’t help that Haaland is missing for Norway, best pure striker in Europe. For Sweden Gyokores and Isak also. There was a real coaching turn towards making everyone with midfielder like traits, from defence to attack, as a lot of people thought Spain 2012 was the future so this generation is lacking. Older strikers are still valued well past their peak, almost because they have been coached in skills younger players haven’t been - like Ronaldo, Benzema, Giroud, Lewandowski, Ibra, Cavani all wanted for their skills way into their 30s.

I thought when Cavani arrived here it was striking (pardon the pun) how great he was at making attacking runs and getting on the end of things. Compared to Rashford and Martial who just would never go for the balls he would.
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Christ if Haaland is the best pure striker the future is bleak. Wouldn’t be fit to lace of the boots of some of the players mentioned in the OP.
 
I can't remember who it was, maybe Andy Cole, saying that now all the young players want to be inverted wingers or #10s, whereas before it was mainly #9s.

There's been talk of this dearth for a couple of years now, I assume at academy level across Europe there's surely a reaction to this. And there are a few recent examples to follow like Haaland.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Christ if Haaland is the best pure striker the future is bleak. Wouldn’t be fit to lace of the boots of some of the players mentioned in the OP.
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Which pure strikers are those then? I mean, I hate that he plays for City and he doesn't have a great touch, but he's a machine.
 
Probably half the players listed in the OP would be wide forwards or 10s if they came through today.
 
Bastian said:
Which pure strikers are those then? I mean, I hate that he plays for City and he doesn't have a great touch, but he's a machine.
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All of the players mentioned in the OP were better players than Haaland. “Pure strike” whatever the hell that means isn’t just goals. Just watch them all for 10 games and it’s easy to tell who is the better players. Ultimately they made their teams better, Haaland just scored goals while adding nothing to the collective.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
All of the players mentioned in the OP were better players than Haaland. “Pure strike” whatever the hell that means isn’t just goals. Just watch them all for 10 games and it’s easy to tell who is the better players. Ultimately they made their teams better, Haaland just scored goals while adding nothing to the collective.
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Yeah, obviously some of the best players in the last 25-30 years on that list. Some of whom weren't really typical strikers (like Del Piero). Even though I'd take a host of players in the first two lists over Haaland, I still think he's a great player to have and he'll get better at the collective play, that's his major room for improvement. I just think people would likely be fawning over him had he chosen to join United had Ole managed to persuade the club when he was still available for pocket change.
 
Bastian said:
Yeah, obviously some of the best players in the last 25-30 years on that list. Some of whom weren't really typical strikers (like Del Piero). Even though I'd take a host of players in the first two lists over Haaland, I still think he's a great player to have and he'll get better at the collective play, that's his major room for improvement. I just think people would likely be fawning over him had he chosen to join United had Ole managed to persuade the club when he was still available for pocket change.
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Yeh maybe. I still think people would rightly bring up his limitations and if he was at Utd I don’t think he’d have made a massive difference. Don’t think that would be the case for some of those players in the OP, they would actually contribute to us being a better team.
 
Todd said:
The game has changed and the priorities are different. Look at American football in the 90s; every NFL team had a fullback that was vital to the offense. Now, the fullback position essentially no longer exists.

Perhaps it's the same with strikers in football. Is the future of football going to be that everyone plays with a false nine? The goalkeeper position has already seen pretty radical changes in the last decade, so it's not unreasonable to imagine that the striker position could change radically as well.

Weird to think that 25 years ago, United had four legitimate, senior strikers in the squad who all played an important role, and now we barely have one.

Think about this: Ole scored 18 goals as the third choice striker in the Treble season.
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I agree that the game has changed, and that the out and out striker has become less common. However, is that on purpose or out of necessity?

For example, I can hardly think of a team in the last decade that has won major honours without a world class striker.

Liverpool with a CL and PL, and Madrid just gone by without a recognised 9 winning the CL and La Liga spring to mind, but that was just a one off season while they waited for Mbappe to fill the void of Benzema.

Aguero, Haaland, Lewandowski, Suarez.. the game has changed, yet almost all of the very best teams of the last decade would seem incomplete without that world class focal point.

I just find it interesting how the sentiment seems to be that the "need" for a striker in modern football is less, yet the competition for elite strikers among the top teams is as fierce as ever. If football had changed to such an extent, why is that the case?

I think perhaps the observation most have pointed out is correct, but the causality may be wrong. What I mean by that, is are teams adapting their styles becuase there simply is a lack of quality strikers in this era? As opposed to there being less strikers because less teams are playing that way.

Because for the handful of world class strikers that exist in the world, they are the most coveted players in the game.
 
It must be acknowledged that the athletic requirements of the game pretty much trump the technical aspects today, and therefore it’s really difficult for any top-level target man to sustain the part without losing effectiveness.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Yeh maybe. I still think people would rightly bring up his limitations and if he was at Utd I don’t think he’d have made a massive difference. Don’t think that would be the case for some of those players in the OP, they would actually contribute to us being a better team.
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I think he'd have forged a great partnership with Bruno and he'd scare the shit out of defenders even more, what with us being more or less a counter attacking team for the last few years.

I also am not sure we need a striker who will score 40 goals, like you said there in the end, we need someone contributing to making us a better team. Same goes for all the positions needing addressing this summer.

On topic, I think Hojlund and Sesko will prove to be successful #9s. That recent 442 top 10 list seems pretty tame though.
 
There's obviously less #9's about these days with the introduction of inverted wingers and a tactic of mobile, roaming strikers - but there's still some good ones about (though most at this tournament are either young or 30+ rather than in their prime).

In the England group all 4 teams start with a proper #9 - Kane (also Toney and Watkins), Hojlund, Sesko, Mitrovic.

There's also the likes of Lewandoski (unluckily injured in build up but still in squad), Ronaldo, Ramos, Giroud, Mbappe, Schick, Lukaku, Weghorst... The lists beginning to tail off...:smirk:
 
Pep Guardiola. He’s the single reason, the sole cause resulting in the mutation of many things occurred in the game for the absolute worst and dearth of strikers is just one of them ever since he started playing without a striker.

He’s the biggest catastrophe, the most terrible thing happened to football and no one can convince me otherwise.
 
kaku06 said:
Pep Guardiola. He’s the single reason, the sole cause resulting in the mutation of many things occurred in the game for the absolute worst and dearth of strikers is just one of them ever since he started playing without a striker.

He’s the biggest catastrophe, the most terrible thing happened to football and no one can convince me otherwise.
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I am completely with you on this.
 
kaku06 said:
Pep Guardiola. He’s the single reason, the sole cause resulting in the mutation of many things occurred in the game for the absolute worst and dearth of strikers is just one of them ever since he started playing without a striker.

He’s the biggest catastrophe, the most terrible thing happened to football and no one can convince me otherwise.
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I'm assuming much of this is tongue in cheek, but for arguments sake, I don't understand when people say Pep plays without a striker.

At Barca, he gave Messi the false 9 role because he was just out of this world. But look at his other teams and the players he has opted to utilise up front: Lewandowski, Aguero and Haaland.

Doesn't sound like someone that undervalues the striker role. Aguero retires and he replaces him with Haaland and Alvarez.
 
LA BOMBA said:
Holland had crazy depth when it came to world class strikers in late 90s/early 2000s.

Van Nistelrooy, Kluivert, Bergkamp, van Hooijdonk, Hasselbaink, Maakay.

How they went from this to Weghorst being the only guy for them is crazy.
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Weghorst isnt our only guy. He is a sub.

We have Memhpis, Zirkzee and Brobbey. Still, not much compared to what we had before.

Van Hooijdonk is a bit of an odd one out in your list btw. He wasnt that good but he did have an amazing free kick. Those others were all topscorers in elite leagues.
 
It’s a natural consequence of the Barcelona/Guardiola style that predominates the game nowadays.
 
It is not only strikers, think about midfielders.

There was two back to back generations of Zizou,Vieria, Keane, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Ballack, Effenberg, Nedved , Deco, Essien, Makelele, Mendieta, Rui Costa anongst others, then followed by a generation of Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Senna, Fabregas, Pirlo, Modric, Kante, Kroos etc

Who do we have now outside maybe Rodri, KDB, Bellingham and maybe Pedri being at those levels?
 
kaku06 said:
Pep Guardiola. He’s the single reason, the sole cause resulting in the mutation of many things occurred in the game for the absolute worst and dearth of strikers is just one of them ever since he started playing without a striker.

He’s the biggest catastrophe, the most terrible thing happened to football and no one can convince me otherwise.
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killed the number 10 too (blame Mourinho as much for that)
 
Stadjer said:
Van Hooijdonk is a bit of an odd one out in your list btw. He wasnt that good but he did have an amazing free kick. Those others were all topscorers in elite leagues.
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Van Hooijdonk would walk into this Holland team easily. He would be a superstar in modern football and one of undisputed top 5 strikers.

He scored 25+ goals a season regularly and was the top scorer in the Dutch league and UEFA Cup. He was also top goalscorer in the Scottish league and rewarded as top player in the Turkish league. Back in his days those leagues weren't as bad as now. He was never given a chance at a top club because back then teams were stacked with strikers.
 
Games changed. Teams try to spread goals amongst the team more.
 
I was discussing something similar about the England squad and comparing previous generations.

The fact that Andy Cole and Ian Wright weren't regular internationals just shows the depth we had back then.
 
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