Where are we in the pecking order for the top players?

Sparky Rhiwabon

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if a top player becomes "available" where do we rank currently in terms of where they are likely to want to go? Which clubs are ahead of us?

Take all factors into account: money / wages available, history, commercial opportunities, location, quality of league, quality of team, manager situation, chance of trophies, European football likelihood, etc (weighted as you see fit)

Linked question: are we able to sign the very top players (such as Messi, Neymar, Bale, Muller, Lewandowski) or are we now resigned to shopping in a lower tier (Felipe Anderson, Mane and the like)?
 
We're still pretty much able to spend and sign in the top tier. Only difference these days - there are a lot more clubs who are able to compete for signatures.

A decade or so ago, there was hardly anyone in the UK who could compete with us. Now you have around at least 3 other clubs plus PSG (arguably even Atletico) etc (above the Spanish big 2 plus Bayern) who can.

So players preference (city they want to live in, boyhood club etc) have a lot more options to dictate where they sign. Winning trophies obviously helps but United is still a top tier club.
 
Behind

Real
Barca
Bayern
PSG
Man City

Arguably Chelsea as well (maybe not if they fail to get top 4)

For any player with a brain.

If they're after money then no one is really above us.
 
Linked question: are we able to sign the very top players (such as Messi, Neymar, Bale, Muller, Lewandowski) or are we now resigned to shopping in a lower tier (Felipe Anderson, Mane and the like)?
You can sign top players as long as they haven't already made the step to one of the elite clubs. There are a few exceptions when top players move between the elite clubs (usually to Real), but it happens so rarely that no club should rely on these moves. If you want to sign Bale or Lewandowski or Neymar, you have to attract them before they go to Real, Bayern, Barca. You have almost zero chance to sign players like Messi or Müller in their prime, just like no one had a real chance to sign Scholes or Giggs in their prime.

Right now, attracting the top talents on their way to the big clubs is a bit difficult because United appears to be a bit of a mess, but that can change quickly and as long as you can match the wages, it's always possible.
 
Depends a lot on where the players is coming from. I'd say pretty high for Northern Europe, Asia and USA players, and pretty low for latin countries and Africa.

Too bad for you nowadays most top players come from South America and southern Europe.
 
I would have put us around 6th or 7th. We only get "top class" players when the clubs in front of us have finished with them.

All Woodward's boasting of "unlimited funds" etc. means nothing.
 
I'd say we're pretty high... our actual problem seems to be identifying targets that don't cost an arm and a leg.
 
It doesn't matter. United have been more succesfull moulding the next big thing into a super star. We haven't faired as well with super star buys
Yep. And as @Balu pointed out as well - it's much easier to look for these players before they make the step up to elite clubs because they hardly ever move in their prime after that - the odd Real/Barca exception aside.

Otherwise, we need to shop at the annual "Barca/Madrid" reject table.
 
I'd say we're pretty high... our actual problem seems to be identifying targets that don't cost an arm and a leg.
The fact that we're Man Utd seems to add a 20-30% price increase on to players as well. Clubs know we're minted and want to grease us.

But yeah, it's annoying that our supposedly vast scouting team can't seem to find non-obvious purchases that won't cost a lot of money anymore. Where's are the Smalling's and Hernandez' these days?
 
I would have put us around 6th or 7th. We only get "top class" players when the clubs in front of us have finished with them.

All Woodward's boasting of "unlimited funds" etc. means nothing.

It's the same for everyone but Real Madrid. Balu's post is very accurate.
 
Not quite the same, we're behind clubs that are behind Real Madrid.

We are in the same bracket, Barcelona and Real Madrid will be first choice for most players because Real are glamorous while Barcelona have Messi and everyone wants to play with him. After that all the big clubs are virtually at the same level, some players will prefer London, others won't want to live in Germany, others think that the french league and the Serie A aren't good enough, etc...

Players have preferences outside of football and it's what sometimes makes the difference.
 
Behind

Real
Barca
Bayern
PSG
Man City

Arguably Chelsea as well (maybe not if they fail to get top 4)

For any player with a brain.

If they're after money then no one is really above us.

For what reason are City now above us in the pecking order if its not for money? Because their team is currently better?
 
So an important part of our long-term recruitment efforts should be to focus on making South Americans watch the EPL. And speak English. And eat fish'n'chips. And go on caravan holidays to sit in a field in the rain. Get on it, Woody!
 
Top players are irrelevant, if they become available you go in for them if you think you need them but it's not that important.

It's more important to get Messi when he's a kid, signing Neymar of Santos, Bale of spurs, Muller into your youth system and Lewandowski of Dortmund.

We did that with Shaw, Depay and Martial who genuinely have the potential to be one of the best in their position, in the case of Martial we see now why the likes of Barcelona were after him, Monaco were not selling but the game changed when they got knocked out of the champions league, Louis van Gaal and Woodward acted quickly with an offer Monaco couldn't refuse, it's also a sensible offer in a lot of ways with how the add ons work.

We probably need a centre back due to Jones' injury problems, CAM / SS (alternatively Herrera could be the more attacking central midfielder and we sign somebody to play next to him in a 4-3-3) and finally we need a RW.

Because of our current situation it makes sense to go after Griezmann and pay a lot of money but otherwise i'd focus on looking for world class potential around £40m or below (even Neymar was 57.1m euros so just over 40m pounds).

It's really not that difficult, Louis van Gaal has built a solid squad with potential, we need to only add players like Martial for the first team and then get some talent into our youth system so we can train players a certain way, even if they don't become first team material, like Pedro they will be quality squad players.

De Gea (One of the best in his position)

Darmian (potential to be a solid right back defensively)
Smalling (potential to be one of the best in his position if he builds on this season)
Somebody new (preferably potential to be one of the best in his position, if not a solid centre back)
Shaw (potential to be one of the best in his position)

Schneiderlin (solid defensive midfielder)
Herrera (quality well rounded central midfielder)

RW (preferably potential to be one of the best in his position)
CAM / SS (same)
Depay (potential to be one of the best in his position)

Martial (potential to be one of the best in his position)
 
In England, we are still the most prestigious club. Really, who would choose City over United for anything other than money?

There are also some players who would choose us over Barca and Real too. Simply because we're United.
 
For what reason are City now above us in the pecking order if its not for money? Because their team is currently better?

Yes. Better players. More chance of silverware (including Champions League). Not having to work with LVG is probably a factor at present as well.

If they get Pep i think they'll be easily above us in pretty much every way.
 
In England, we are still the most prestigious club. Really, who would choose City over United for anything other than money?

There are also some players who would choose us over Barca and Real too. Simply because we're United.

Well at city you get to play with aguero, silva, de bruyne, kompany. Plus a borderline fuarantee of CL football each season. Plus you don't have to wotk with LVG, and theres a pretty good chance of playing for pep soon. There are genuinely more reasons to play for city at present.
 
Top players are so yesterday.Let's go off the radar and find the next superstar instead.
 
You can sign top players as long as they haven't already made the step to one of the elite clubs. There are a few exceptions when top players move between the elite clubs (usually to Real), but it happens so rarely that no club should rely on these moves. If you want to sign Bale or Lewandowski or Neymar, you have to attract them before they go to Real, Bayern, Barca. You have almost zero chance to sign players like Messi or Müller in their prime, just like no one had a real chance to sign Scholes or Giggs in their prime.

Right now, attracting the top talents on their way to the big clubs is a bit difficult because United appears to be a bit of a mess, but that can change quickly and as long as you can match the wages, it's always possible.
This. I personally feel (and hope!) Martial will go on to be in that bracket which just proves this point.
 
For big name players right now? I'd say we're at the cusp of Top 5, as things stand - and maybe historically too if you include peak Milan, Juventus and Internazionale. Real Madrid and Barcelona are definitely ahead of us and every other club. As long as they have money to spare and are successful, we (and every other club for that matter) don't stand a chance to compete (especially for Iberian and Latin American footballers) because top footballers are both basic and obscenely rich. A millionaire from those parts would rather move to those clubs for cultural, historical and lifestyle reasons - or the chance to play with the likes of Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo and co. PSG are in the second tier because of their shrewd recruiting process in recent years, and their contingent of Latin American players, plus Paris has a reputation for being a glamorous city for people with money, so there's that. Bayern Munich too because of all the success they've had recently (though they're not likely to sign many big name players so it might be a moot point). Outside of those four - Chelsea might have the London factor in the favor and City can spend loadsa money, so they might pip us for a few players; but if push comes to shove, we can compete with either because Woodward has already thrown caution to the wind. If we were successful like in the Fergie days, I'd say we're neck to neck with Bayern Munich, or maybe even ahead of them because of the lure of the Premier League, which is more marketable than the Bundesliga. Plus, English is a universal language as opposed to German when conversing with the natives. However, Bayern has one key factor working in their favor - that's proximity to a reservoir of relatively cheap talent - they can sign a lot of German and Bundesliga based players before anyone else gets a whiff, which gives them an advantage because they're cheaper compared with their Premier League counterparts.

Considering all of that, it would make sense to target players right on the edge of greatness, rather than the finished product - because if a player achieves world class status with us, he might be more emotionally invested in the team, as opposed to a hired gun who has become jaded over the years and is a strict 'pro'; or in the case of ex-Madrid, Barcelona players - maybe surplus to demands, and not operating with optimal mental acuity because his head is still there. That's not a universal rule, just an anecdote. With that in mind, we should seek to emulate the Atletico model (or our own old model for that matter). They signed Falcao when he was on the threshold, even Griezmann, Godin was a retread - and have built a system where they can add 3-4 good but not great players every season like a conveyor belt without a lot of attrition in terms of quality, including youngsters like Vietto, Correa, Giménez. That's what Fergie did over the years - signing Ruud, Cole, Stam before they exploded, on top of Ronaldo, Rooney and it served us well. And unlike Atletico, we can afford to retain most of our stars from a financial perspective. However, they have the advantage of having probably the best crop of homegrown players in Europe with the likes of Koke, Saúl, Óliver to form the bedrock for the future - and you don't see that type of quality in our youngsters. Also, by and large - Spanish youngsters are much cheaper than English youngsters so they don't have to spend as much. We're suffering in comparison with top Spanish clubs because not only do they have the Latin/ Iberian advantage in their favor; the talent is more abundant and cheap, and they can acclimatize easily to the La Liga. Top English players are both rarer and obscenely expensive unless you unearth gems like Alli from MK Dons, or Stones from Bunrley; or sign them at a very young age before they become proper Premier League starters in an era where teams are demanding £30 million for every half decent player.

PS: Juventus has a great recruiting model too, that's something we might wanna look into. They built a great team without a lot of ready made star quality by pouncing on the likes of Vidal, Bonnucci, Pogba, Tevez at the right time.
 
Barca, Madrid and Bayern and if it comes to money/life style then we're behind PSG too.
 
We've essentially become Liverpool in the transfer market they can't sign any big names and neither can we.

Both us and Liverpool can't offer a massive chance at silverware or champs league.
 
If we don't sign anyone soon then we'll be even further down the pecking list.. We're in danger of losing our tranfer window trophy and if we're not careful we could go back to the dark period of the Ferguson era. C'mon Woody and LVG pull your thumb out.
 
Behind

Real
Barca
Bayern
PSG
Man City

Arguably Chelsea as well (maybe not if they fail to get top 4)

For any player with a brain.

If they're after money then no one is really above us.

The only reason any top player would choose PSG is for the money and an easy life, not for ambition
 
The only reason any top player would choose PSG is for the money and an easy life, not for ambition
PSG is a pretty good place to win silverware and hopefully challenging very seriously for the CL in the future.
 
PSG is a pretty good place to win silverware and hopefully challenging very seriously for the CL in the future.

Agree with the first part but that's not exactly a challenge - second part don't think that will happen, you can't play against crap teams week in week out and expect to be able to peak every time you play in the CL and KO teams like Real Barça or Bayern
 
Real, Barca
Bayern



PSG, Man City, Chelsea
United

Is how I'd see it. We're able to battle the three above us for certain players but most would prefer them. We can't really battle the tier above that, and teams like Arsenal can challenge us from just below too. It's not going to be easy to get top talents.
 
We are right at the bottom of top tier clubs

The only reasons top tier players will sign for us is if:
-No other top tier clubs are interested
-We offer by far the most money to sign them
-We offer by far the highest wage
 
Real, Barca
Bayern



PSG, Man City, Chelsea
United

Is how I'd see it. We're able to battle the three above us for certain players but most would prefer them. We can't really battle the tier above that, and teams like Arsenal can challenge us from just below too. It's not going to be easy to get top talents.

1: Real, Barca, Bayern
2: PSG, City, Chelsea
3: Juventus, Arsenal, United
4: Atletico, Liverpool, Spurs
5: Dortmund, Valencia, Inter, ACM, Naploi, Porto etc
 
There is no pecking order. Every player is different and their preferences are. Factors like manager, city, culture and status all play a role. Bayern have been one of the best teams of the past decade and you still wouldn't fancy them to get a Neymar. Just like we were under Fergie and we never seemed to try/compete for the best South American/Latin talent. Spanish and previously Italian clubs have as close of a monopoly as you can get on that market whereas we used to dominate the British market and Northern European. Now we don't anymore because of the emergence of City and Chelsea. When it comes to top tier players already at big clubs, that's just fantasy as it almost never happens. Cristiano Ronaldo is pretty much the only case in about a decade.
 
1: Real, Barca, Bayern
2: PSG, City, Chelsea
3: Juventus, Arsenal, United
4: Atletico, Liverpool, Spurs
5: Dortmund, Valencia, Inter, ACM, Naploi, Porto etc
Bayern are more like us under Fergie. Dominant in the domestic market but never competing with Barcelona, Real or previously Juventus, Milan, Inter when it comes to the best Latin/South American talent. They still don't.