When we’re back on top

Pughnichi

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Just read Berada’s 3 year plan.

Got me wondering if/when we get back to where we want/expect to be. Do others think it’ll be short term or perhaps trust that we’ll consolidate our position as repeat challengers for both epl and ucl?
 
Don't think it'll happen in my lifetime. We're so far away and heading in the wrong direction.
 
Im actually a lot more optimistic than others on this. I think people underestimate how spectacularly shite the previous management was. Like, you have to compound bad decision after bad decision for year after year to squander the financial firepower and attraction to players that United has. And we did. We fecked it up with real panache. But that era is over, and the new leadership team seem like adults compared to the children of the previous regime. I don't think they have a magic wand, but I do think they're finally approaching things in the right way.
 
Don't see INEOS making the right decision yet.
Appointments of Berrada, Wilcox, Ashworth and a huge redevelopment of OT on the horizon, I do think INEOS have taken some good, proactive steps but whether this ever translates to success on the pitch is another thing.
 
Appointments of Berrada, Wilcox, Ashworth and a huge redevelopment of OT on the horizon, I do think INEOS have taken some good, proactive steps but whether this ever translates to success on the pitch is another thing.
I don't want to derail the thread, but they need to do something about the manager soon.
 
I can't even think about us being back on top as it's not going to happen under Ten Hag. It's a non starter
 
I'm going to be absolutely and unashamedly unbearable when we are.

I always tried to keep it low key amongst mates who supported other clubs back when Fergie's sides were winning all round them. Wouldn't like to be rubbing it in or acting too cocky in front of lads who hadn't seen their side win much.

But those same pricks have taken such joy from us being shite for a decade that I deeply regret being so magnanimous back then. Once we're back on top I look forward to making up for it with a vengeance.
 
I can't even think about us being back on top as it's not going to happen under Ten Hag. It's a non starter

It's not even borderline a fantasy with this manager let alone realistic.
 
I'm happy that the club is putting a stop to manager acquired transfers.
I want to see a constant conveyer of top, talented youngsters to rival Barca's.
Dunno if we will ever truly be dominant as we were, as now we have whole countries to compete with.
 
Im actually a lot more optimistic than others on this. I think people underestimate how spectacularly shite the previous management was.
The problem wasn't that they were shit. The problem was they were aiming to finish fourth as cheaply as possible. They had no desire to compete with City. In their own terms they were very successful until their lack of ambition looked like getting us left behind and wrecking the capital asset value of the club. That's when they handed control to a different business model aimed at greater success.

I think we'll be top four side again inside 3 years. Maybe as soon as this season.
 
I bought a bottle of the Chivas Regal13 year SAF commemoration about 4 years ago. I said I won't open it until we get the league title or the CL.

I plan on having the bottle a very long time.
 
It's so tough these days, I think purely because it's the Premier League it will be hard to maintain a period of dominance like we had before, or City have had, Liverpool in the 70's/80's etc. There's different factors at different times, but I think regardless of having more money and perhaps some other stars aligning, the biggest factor was/is that the best manager at the time was vastly superior to everyone else. Even the managers at the time that were seen as worthy challengers didn't seem to 'get one over' on them often enough. For example, when Arsenal and Chelsea had great sides and managers that competed with Sir Alex, he still came out on top much more often. Pep is the same right now - despite how well Klopp did, Pep dominated him realistically. Some people will prefer Klopp's style of play, his personality, and probably state that he is as good as Pep in some instances, but really, he just isn't. It's not close either. So, for me, you need other teams to be in less good periods and not have a worldie, once in a generation manager at the helm whilst you do.

We are the biggest club in England, but I think in England it is harder to guarantee success by being the biggest/second biggest or whatever than it is in Spain, Germany, France, and Italy to a lesser degree. When Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern have a period of time where they feel weaker than the other European giant clubs, they'll probably still win the title in their league during that period. If you're off it in England, you won't win the league. Someone will take it from you. I think the competition at the top of the Premier League is always fierce and I don't see a manager at the moment who would go on the same kind of roll as Pep, Sir Alex, or Paisley, but that's not to say one won't emerge in the next few years and find themselves at a club where they can thrive.

The reason I have said all of the above is because we will be compared to teams like Bayern, Real, Barca, Juventus, PSG due to our scale, but I think it is inherently harder for us to recover from a transitional period (or however you want to describe this perceived mediocrity) in the Premier League than it is for them in their leagues, particularly when there have been teams that consistently get historically title-winning points totals. This is something that fuels the agenda in the media that Manchester United needs to be winning titles. It's been 11 years... I think that is enough of a moment in time to say that this Manchester United team are not a team that should be included in title winner conversations, no? It just feels like we are not allowed to be left out of the conversation, because we are like the aforementioned teams. But realistically, we've been average for long enough that we should be labelled as average. At least our average includes a trophy every couple of years unlike some clubs ;)

So, with that pre-cursor, if we get back to the top, I don't think we will be seeing us win three titles in a row or four from six etc. I think when Pep leaves City, it won't just be a case of the next best team and next best manager wins every year, it will be shared out a bit over a 5-10 year spell by 3-4 teams maybe.
 
I'm actually quite confident that we're laying sustainable foundations at the moment to challenge relatively consistently for the long haul.

I have faith in the team assembled and believe that there are incredibly encouraging signs that we are finally turning the oil rig around and beginning to move in the right direction.

It won't necessarily be smooth sailing over the new few years, but I think that 5 years from now we'll be regular CL knock-out stage participants.
 
I don’t see it. Winning trophies is not something you plan to do but rather work towards and 4 seasons is still a relatively short window. We will probably take two of those seasons to ‘give ten Hag a chance’ which I don’t think is going to bring any meaningful results.

Don’t think we are winning any major trophies this decade.
 
People want everything now.

Utd need to get to a position where the squad and coaching teams only require minor tweaks year on year. That requires sorting out player recruitment and retention, this requires being on top of future planning in terms of identifying and developing replacements and being absolutely ruthless when it comes to getting rid of players who are no longer useful.

This all takes time to put in place, takes about 3 years to build and shape a squad that's capable of sustained challenges across multiple competitions year on year. The initial targets should be domestic cups, then the league and ultimately building up to challenging at the top end of the league and European football every year.

In 3 to 5 years Utd should be capable of doing this, expecting it to happen any sooner than that is wishful thinking.
 
The money in the PL makes it harder to see anyone dominating for a longer period (excluding 115 FC)

Blows my mind when you see Brighton spending 200 million in the summer.
 
The problem wasn't that they were shit. The problem was they were aiming to finish fourth as cheaply as possible. They had no desire to compete with City. In their own terms they were very successful until their lack of ambition looked like getting us left behind and wrecking the capital asset value of the club. That's when they handed control to a different business model aimed at greater success.

I think we'll be top four side again inside 3 years. Maybe as soon as this season.
If you look at our transfer fees and salary outlay, I don't think that argument stacks up really. I think we were the 3rd biggest spenders in the world over that period. Our problem was just chucking cash at problems with no real plan, when other clubs were busy modernising.
 
If "top" means City-level of domination of the League, then I am expecting a waiting period of 10 years, at least.
 
I'm going to be absolutely and unashamedly unbearable when we are.

I always tried to keep it low key amongst mates who supported other clubs back when Fergie's sides were winning all round them. Wouldn't like to be rubbing it in or acting too cocky in front of lads who hadn't seen their side win much.

But those same pricks have taken such joy from us being shite for a decade that I deeply regret being so magnanimous back then. Once we're back on top I look forward to making up for it with a vengeance.
Haha. Love this
 
If you look at our transfer fees and salary outlay, I don't think that argument stacks up really. I think we were the 3rd biggest spenders in the world over that period. Our problem was just chucking cash at problems with no real plan, when other clubs were busy modernising.

Common misconception. There was a plan. It just wasn't a plan that prioritised football, but rather big names to gaslight fans to stay invested. The re-signing of Ronaldo being the most glaring example. It worked until it didn't.
 
This.

Should have given it more large when United were winning.
Seriously... Seeing now how bitter people are and where during the SAF years, I really wish I was as unlikable and annoying as Arsenal and Pool fans have been the past 10 years(despite not being close to as good or dominant as MU was).

I still see how much the SAF years hurt opposition fans, becuase they still call our victories or goals "jammy" or that the opposition was unlucky not to win and etc.

Sorry for derailing the topic a bit, just had to get it out there.
 
Seriously... Seeing now how bitter people are and where during the SAF years, I really wish I was as unlikable and annoying as Arsenal and Pool fans have been the past 10 years(despite not being close to as good or dominant as MU was).

I still see how much the SAF years hurt opposition fans, becuase they still call our victories or goals "jammy" or that the opposition was unlucky not to win and etc.

Sorry for derailing the topic a bit, just had to get it out there.

Totally agree
 
Depends on how quickly we get there. As it is now a PL title and a strong team that competes for CL trophies regularly in the next 3-4 years would make us extraordinarily wealthy - to the point where it is unlikely anyone could compete with us financially.

If it takes too long - like ten years more - we will have lost the advantage SAF left us with.
 
All seems so far and distant at the moment that if given the option of going back to competing for big titles in 10 years I would take it without a flinch. Sadly we've seen so many false dawns at this club for me to get excited so easily.

Still we're seeing Arsenal competing and they looked way worse than we do a couple of years ago so I guess once it clicks everything's smoother but at the moment it's hard to see it.
 
Common misconception. There was a plan. It just wasn't a plan that prioritised football, but rather big names to gaslight fans to stay invested. The re-signing of Ronaldo being the most glaring example. It worked until it didn't.

That's a completely different point to the one you made last time. And it doesn't square with the idea that they were just trying to finish top 4 cheaply.
 
Just read Berada’s 3 year plan.

Got me wondering if/when we get back to where we want/expect to be. Do others think it’ll be short term or perhaps trust that we’ll consolidate our position as repeat challengers for both epl and ucl?

I've long said 3 good years of top decision making is all it takes. People who think it takes the better part of a decade for a club our size are fecking stupid.

There's overwhelming evidence throughout history that in 3 years any big club can go from absolute shit back to the top of football or close to it. Even moreso in the modern game where scouting and transfers are worldwide. I'd be annoyed if Berrada's plan was any more than 3 years to be honest.
 
It's typically the case that sides who win the PL in a given year also compete for the PL/CL in surrounding years.

City have obviously been very dominant for a long period. Liverpool had two second place finishes in the years surrounding their title win. Chelsea won the title twice in three years in the middle of the 2010s. Our last title winning side had been finishing 1st or 2nd for many years running up to that. And so on. Most of those sides also had varying degrees of success in the CL too.

The only exception are Leicester, who are obviously quite a different case.

So yes, if/when we win title we'll almost certainly also be competing for the PL/CL in the surrounding years too. How many of those you actually win is down to circumstance & luck, but it would be unusual if we weren't repeat challengers.
 
I'm going to be absolutely and unashamedly unbearable when we are.

I always tried to keep it low key amongst mates who supported other clubs back when Fergie's sides were winning all round them. Wouldn't like to be rubbing it in or acting too cocky in front of lads who hadn't seen their side win much.

But those same pricks have taken such joy from us being shite for a decade that I deeply regret being so magnanimous back then. Once we're back on top I look forward to making up for it with a vengeance.
I can entirely empathise we this perpective. I'll join you.
 
That's a completely different point to the one you made last time. And it doesn't square with the idea that they were just trying to finish top 4 cheaply.

It's the same point. A top four finish was the bare minimum for big club credibility and TV revenue. That's why it was in all the Glazer managers' contracts. But the club under the Glazers was primarily a brand with a football team attached. That's why Klopp turned us down but took the Liverpool job. He knew that we were a bunch of clowns with all that Disneyland rubbish coming out of Woodward's mouth. ETH's willingness to take the job says a lot in his favour and I want to give him every chance to succeed.
 
How long you planning on living?

I'm hoping for another 30 years...

You're so negative, it's funny.

How do you come to the conclusion that we are heading in the wrong direction as a club?

I know. I have to be negative though so that anything positive is a nice surprise!

Well, we're 11th at the moment, clinging to an incompetent manager and with no attacking threat because our transfer plan involves throwing money at players we don't need, while holding onto those who are no longer able to play at the highest level.

I would say that while we're clinging to EtH, we're heading backwards and I think we'll see that at the end of the season if he stays.