When the best player on the planet was a 15 year old. (Maradona)

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@Fobal @antohan @oneniltothearsenal (anyone who has lived in South America when Maradonamania was building)

Don’t know if any of you were around then or were fed the hype of the 15yr old version, but wanted to ask how accurate this account is? That Maradona was already a star before he even debuted?

Vid revealed some things I didn’t know especially the Barcelona-Boca bit and concentration camp contract… the late 70’s timeline obviously Venn’s with Platini and Zico and it sounds like Maradona was - according to Guerin Sportivo - already the one to beat before the other two came to prominence, so they had to wrestle it from him… not the other way round?

Certainly some twists adding new light to what I thought was a well worn narrative!
 
I first heard of him before the 1978 WC in Argentina, he was mentioned in the commentary during one of the group games, mentioned because the commentator was talking about the talent pool just below the national team. I first saw him when Argentina beat Scotland in a friendly a year later. Its a long time ago but I knew who he was before I ever saw him play, I didnt know much but knew there was this player on the rise.
 
Fascinating. Certainly wouldn't surprise me if the Ballon d'Or is more a political popularity contest than a decent measure of the absolute best each year.

I'm sold on Maradona being the best ever, by a distance though.

The Torino based paper that named the world player of the year did so 9 consecutive years ('79-'87) and Maradona was their pick in '79, '86 and '87, and tied first in '81 with Zico and Rummenigge.

Given how Messi won the Ballon d'Or simply because he was the most talented and best footballer around, not because he had particularly great seasons all the time (i.e. his PSG spell), I would suggest that Maradona should have won maybe 8 in a row if it's just who is the best footballer on the planet.
 


@Fobal @antohan @oneniltothearsenal (anyone who has lived in South America when Maradonamania was building)

Don’t know if any of you were around then or were fed the hype of the 15yr old version, but wanted to ask how accurate this account is? That Maradona was already a star before he even debuted?

Vid revealed some things I didn’t know especially the Barcelona-Boca bit and concentration camp contract… the late 70’s timeline obviously Venn’s with Platini and Zico and it sounds like Maradona was - according to Guerin Sportivo - already the one to beat before the other two came to prominence, so they had to wrestle it from him… not the other way round?

Certainly some twists adding new light to what I thought was a well worn narrative!

I'm not that old. My first vivid memory of him is how he ripped us to shreds in the semis of the 1979 World Youth Championship.

I do know he had hype from an early age. The way grassroots football is organised here you have local clubs and leagues to play in from 6-13 years old (58 geographically defined leagues with 10-12 clubs each in UY). More than one in three kids gets involved in "baby football" regardless of social extraction and level, e.g. my kid played against Forlán's kid last week. The better ones like Diego's also get selected for their respective League First Team and these play each other regionally in knockout format until a national champion emerges.

Argentina has a similar setup so someone like Maradona would get visibility before turning 10. From baby football you "graduate" into professional club youth setups and Maradona's Argentinos Juniors "Cebollitas" (little onions) was so successful they actually got invites to come play here in Uruguay and other countries when he was barely 13.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did those half time shows the video mentions, much like he did in that famous "Life is life" clip at Napoli. That said, Argentinos's stadium at the time was probably ~12k at full capacity so the part on 5 million trying to get into the stadium for his debut is definitely bollocks. For starters, they were playing Talleres de Córdoba, he found out he was on the bench the day before, and he came on at half time. There's no way you could mobilise 20% of the Argentinian population at the time at a day's notice, less so under a military regime that simply wouldn't allow such a concentration of people to take place. I would concede there's quite probably 5M Argies saying they were there that day though. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

On the Venn diagrams... Maradona was consistently in my top 5 in the world in 1980-85 but I wouldn't say he was distinctly ahead of Rummenigge, Zico or Platini in that timeframe. You probably had peak Kalle 1980-81, Zico 1981-82, Platini 1983-84, but when Maradona's peak finally came in 1986 he left them in the dust. Even watching the full games today you wouldn't grasp it. I don't think there was anyone who would have claimed he was undisputably on a different tier to them before that Summer, nor anyone who wouldn't after.
 
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A nuance to that is most would have agreed he was the most gifted and talented baller on the planet, but much like in that goal... that he was a more talented soloist. In a team sport like football, what Maradona had on Platini/Zico as a soloist, they had on him making a team perform. What blew it all away was him matching and surpassing them on that aspect, while being able to resort to the solo version as and when required. When he can be the most unplayable individual, while also raising the level of ordinary players around him to world beating levels, that's where he becomes the GOAT.
 
I'm not that old. My first vivid memory of him is how he ripped us to shreds in the semis of the 1979 World Youth Championship.

I do know he had hype from an early age. The way grassroots football is organised here you have local clubs and leagues to play in from 6-13 years old (58 geographically defined leagues with 10-12 clubs each in UY). More than one in three kids gets involved in "baby football" regardless of social extraction and level, e.g. my kid played against Forlán's kid last week. The better ones like Diego's also get selected for their respective League First Team and these play each other regionally in knockout format until a national champion emerges.

Argentina has a similar setup so someone like Maradona would get visibility before turning 10. From baby football you "graduate" into professional club youth setups and Maradona's Argentinos Juniors "Cebollitas" (little onions) was so successful they actually got invites to come play here in Uruguay and other countries when he was barely 13.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did those half time shows the video mentions, much like he did in that famous "Life is life" clip at Napoli. That said, Argentinos's stadium at the time was probably ~12k at full capacity so the part on 5 million trying to get into the stadium for his debut is definitely bollocks. For starters, they were playing Talleres de Córdoba, he found out he was on the bench the day before, and he came on at half time. There's no way you could mobilise 20% of the Argentinian population at the time at a day's notice, less so under a military regime that simply wouldn't allow such a concentration of people to take place. I would concede there's quite probably 5M Argies saying they were there that day though. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

On the Venn diagrams... Maradona was consistently in my top 5 in the world in 1980-85 but I wouldn't say he was distinctly ahead of Rummenigge, Zico or Platini in that timeframe. You probably had peak Kalle 1980-81, Zico 1981-82, Platini 1983-84, but when Maradona's peak finally came in 1986 he left them in the dust. Even watching the full games today you wouldn't grasp it. I don't think there was anyone who would have claimed he was undisputably on a different tier to them before that Summer, nor anyone who wouldn't after.
Excellent post. Very educational!

Ha! Not assuming it’s first-hand for any of you, but maybe such common knowledge in S.A, it gets passed down without a second thought, perhaps.

There were quite a few new bits of information in that vid, so I thought I’d try and get some of it verified on here by people like yourselves who may have insight via the buzz or legend of the player across the continent.

Cheers. @Stack also for your insightful post.
 
Excellent post. Very educational!

Ha! Not assuming it’s first-hand for any of you, but maybe such common knowledge in S.A, it gets passed down without a second thought, perhaps.

There were quite a few new bits of information in that vid, so I thought I’d try and get some of it verified on here by people like yourselves who may have insight via the buzz or legend of the player across the continent.

Cheers. @Stacks also for your insightful post.
In that sense, what gives me cognitive dissonance is the thing about Barcelona meeting Lacoste to negotiate the deal

Lacoste is a plausible counterpart as he ran the 1978 World Cup. He did that with a budget about 5x that of Spain 82 (never accounted for, as in literally no accounting ever being presented) and then his mate Joao gave him a job on FIFAs Board.

What doesn't make a lot of sense is the result being that he joins Boca. The regime were River fans, that's why Beto Alonso had to be there in 1978 at Maradona's expense and why Bochini never had a look in. Lacoste was running River (famously negotiated Fillol's "new contract" with a gun on the table and a counter offer of "I can disappear you in 30 seconds").

Or maybe it does. It's Maradona after all. He would absolutely do the opposite of whatever it was they wanted. Would still require some brave people in charge at Boca, no doubt.
 
Fascinating. Certainly wouldn't surprise me if the Ballon d'Or is more a political popularity contest than a decent measure of the absolute best each year.

I'm sold on Maradona being the best ever, by a distance though.

The Torino based paper that named the world player of the year did so 9 consecutive years ('79-'87) and Maradona was their pick in '79, '86 and '87, and tied first in '81 with Zico and Rummenigge.

Given how Messi won the Ballon d'Or simply because he was the most talented and best footballer around, not because he had particularly great seasons all the time (i.e. his PSG spell), I would suggest that Maradona should have won maybe 8 in a row if it's just who is the best footballer on the planet.
Messi never had a bad season at Barca he was always basically the most talented player in the world AND putting up the best numbers and deserved all his Balon dors and probably a few more too
 
Maradona would have been 15 in 1975, no chance he was better than Cruyff and Beckenbauer then.
Fascinating. Certainly wouldn't surprise me if the Ballon d'Or is more a political popularity contest than a decent measure of the absolute best each year.

I'm sold on Maradona being the best ever, by a distance though.

The Torino based paper that named the world player of the year did so 9 consecutive years ('79-'87) and Maradona was their pick in '79, '86 and '87, and tied first in '81 with Zico and Rummenigge.

Given how Messi won the Ballon d'Or simply because he was the most talented and best footballer around, not because he had particularly great seasons all the time (i.e. his PSG spell), I would suggest that Maradona should have won maybe 8 in a row if it's just who is the best footballer on the planet.
Messi got Ballon d'Ors at PSG that were nothing to do with PSG, it was winning the Copa America and World Cups with Argentina as the best player. Maradona wouldn't have won early 1980s Ballon d'Ors against Platini, his Barca spell was very mixed as well. France Football went back and they gave Pele 7 Ballon d'Ors but only gave Maradona two. I think at best you're only giving him 4-5, it's a struggle to give him 7 or 8.
 
I first heard of him before the 1978 WC in Argentina, he was mentioned in the commentary during one of the group games, mentioned because the commentator was talking about the talent pool just below the national team. I first saw him when Argentina beat Scotland in a friendly a year later. Its a long time ago but I knew who he was before I ever saw him play, I didnt know much but knew there was this player on the rise.

Honestly had no idea you were that old. Would have had you as being 40ish.

That will sound insulting I’m sure. Sorry if so.
 
I saw him when England beat Argentina 3-1. One could see Maradona’s class as a 19-year-old.
 
I saw him when England beat Argentina 3-1. One could see Maradona’s class as a 19-year-old.

I wonder whether folks like you could have envisioned you were watching arguably the most talented footballer ever and perhaps the greatest ever.
 


@Fobal @antohan @oneniltothearsenal (anyone who has lived in South America when Maradonamania was building)

Don’t know if any of you were around then or were fed the hype of the 15yr old version, but wanted to ask how accurate this account is? That Maradona was already a star before he even debuted?

Vid revealed some things I didn’t know especially the Barcelona-Boca bit and concentration camp contract… the late 70’s timeline obviously Venn’s with Platini and Zico and it sounds like Maradona was - according to Guerin Sportivo - already the one to beat before the other two came to prominence, so they had to wrestle it from him… not the other way round?

Certainly some twists adding new light to what I thought was a well worn narrative!



I enjoyed him as a little kid in Boca in 81, prior to that, the buzz was already on. The Maradona from Argentinos Jrs. was an injury free, healthy, more forward oriented beast and goalscorer. In time after injuries, abuses and his always present since day one tendency to play for others (while making big differences invididualy) made him mostly an offensive midfielder.

By1980 he was a huge part on Argentinos Jrs. being 2° or 3° in the League (I can't exactly recall) while scoring galore, he already had some Goalscorer titles too and he was just 20.
He was a freak since day and so enjoyable to watch in many senses (maybe more than any player ever, that's why he is so appealing till today).

Diego even as a kid in the 70's, and still a bit sellfish like any other player with such talent while being young, was still very assertive, his malabarisms, skills, improvisations where almost always driven, direct, team oriented, with the almost perfect pause or acceleration of the play in case. This is something that many absolute mavericks like Ney or Ronnie Gaucho or phenomenal players like Di Maria or even absurdly talented players like Djalminha didn't had in such grade, or to be actually fair, in a lesser proportion in their game.
From the all time genius or phenoms with a tendency to add a quote of entertaining, flamboyant touch, I think he is more or less on his own. Meaning a player as assertive as Pele, Zico and Messi (that god forbid us, of course were entertaning as hell) but with a lesser degree (specially while getting older for various reasons) in his goalscoring output.

Regarding Seria A in the 80's, that is perhaps my favorite era with all those extraordinary 10's like Zico, Platini, Diego and cia (micah Richards opinion regarding Linekre's era was so wrong, I wanted to pounch the TV haha). So leaving aside technical aspects and what we might consider who is more talented than other, those fellas and others in that period where absolute wonders, some with excellent carreers in huge teams that would rightfully challenge and beat Diego in that always vague consideration as an undispute sole best player.

Also 10's where present all over the world, people in general (even more right now) would only give credit to players making in it in Europe or as much recognition (like Rivelino) to those that had succeess in the Golden 20th Century era of WCs that BTW worked as the global televised showdown with lots of mystic and mistery involved. In those days (70's and 80's) in Southamerica (and in the 90's to a lesser degree) there where players like Alonso, Bochini, Francescolli, Ruben Sosa, that would make the competiton for people's undispute love and consideration quite hard, more when being a kid.
 
I saw him when England beat Argentina 3-1. One could see Maradona’s class as a 19-year-old.
I knew he would be a great player, but I didn’t know how great he would become. For me, he ranks above Messi.
 
Zico was definitely established as a top South American player earlier than Maradona: he won the Bola de Ouro in 1974, was second in El Mundo South American Player of the Year for 1976, then won the 1977 award. The ballon d'or for that year was Simonsen, Keegan (who had a clearly more successful season than when he actually won it), and Platini, all within five votes of each other, so I'd imagine he would have been in the mix there too if it had been a worldwide award. Maradona then establishes himself as a teenage phenom, winning two El Mundo's in a row before Zico comes back and takes the 81 and 82 awards.


Basically, I'd say that the late 1970s–mid 1980s was a period where you had a small group of attacking players that everyone would agree are among the very best in the world, but are close enough in season to season team accomplishments that there would be lots of debate about who is the best overall, especially as people didn't have the same ability to watch games of them all regularly for the "eye test". All have their season or two of ascendency until Maradona puts together the undeniable club/international combo with the 86 World Cup/Napoli league win and the others fade.

It's worth mentioning that Zico/Platini/Kalle were all 5-7 years older, so it's not that surprising they declined when they did and were unable to offer a good response, but ultimately, they had their earlier chances at world cups and didn't quite take them, and Diego continued to be great for a long enough time after 86 to cement his status.
 
It's worth mentioning that Zico/Platini/Kalle were all 5-7 years older, so it's not that surprising they declined when they did and were unable to offer a good response, but ultimately, they had their earlier chances at world cups and didn't quite take them, and Diego continued to be great for a long enough time after 86 to cement his status.
Absolutely. They were all on display in 1986 but we knew they were on their last legs so it's not like the tournament in itself was used as a contest/barometer of their relative levels.

The thing is, while Maradona played for the team (may have been misinterpreted when calling him the better soloist), he hadn't made teams tick the way Zico or Platini had, both at club and international level.

You could see the signs of this changing in his second season at Napoli. They had narrowly escaped relegation prior to his arrival and they still looked destined for relegation six months after his arrival. I think around that time it must have clicked that this was Argentinos all over again: you can aim for the goalscoring awards but you won't win anything. They signed some decent players, yes, but this wasn't the sort of juggernaut Platini commanded at Juve.

That's really what it boils down to, nobody else could have accomplished what he did at WC86 and Serie A 86-87. No one ever had or ever will have the dual record of being individually unplayable while raising an entire XI to heights way beyond their capabilities (no, they weren't crap, but they weren't anything special either).

For those into F1, writing this just reminded me of how much the later Senna-Prost rivalry reminded me of the Maradona-Platini debate. Lots of parallels there. Now I think of it, maybe Messi is Hamilton in all that :lol:
 
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Absolutely. They were all on display in 1986 but we knew they were on their last legs so it's not like the tournament in itself was used as a contest/barometer of their relative levels.

The thing is, while Maradona played for the team (may have been misinterpreted when calling him the better soloist), he hadn't made teams tick the way Zico or Platini had, both at club and international level.

You could see the signs of this changing in his second season at Napoli. They had narrowly escaped relegation prior to his arrival and they still looked destined for relegation six months after his arrival. I think around that time it must have clicked that this was Argentinos all over again: you can aim for the goalscoring awards but you won't win anything. They signed some decent players, yes, but this wasn't the sort of juggernaut Platini commanded at Juve.

That's really what it boils down to, nobody else could have accomplished what he did at WC86 and Serie A 86-87. No one ever had or ever will have the dual capability of raising an entire XI to heights way beyond their capabilities (no, they weren't crap, but individually they largely weren't anything special either).

For those into F1, writing this just reminded me of how much the later Senna-Prost rivalry reminded me of the Maradona-Platini debate. Lots of parallels there. Now I think of it, maybe Messi is Hamilton in all that :lol:

Di Stefano is Fangio (in so many levels), Senna might be closer to Diego, but jokes aside, one of the things a lot of people do not get it's how much Messi carried in many senses his teams in certain periods, his entire 2018/19 campaign for Barca was sthg. beyond belief, more when on principle Barca should have been way more organized and better prepared to not even need such level of perfomances and or even be involved in such situations
 
Di Stefano is Fangio (in so many levels), Senna might be closer to Diego, but jokes aside, one of the things a lot of people do not get it's how much Messi carried in many senses his teams in certain periods, his entire 2018/19 campaign for Barca was sthg. beyond belief, more when on principle Barca should have been way more organized and better prepared to not even need such level of perfomances and or even be involved in such situations
I'm not talking about carrying a good but underperforming/transitioning side.

I'm talking about making what was otherwise a midtable side at best play like champions. This is before Careca/Alemao (who were far from being van Basten/Rijkaard), the only other player that had a great career beyond Napoli was a 19/20yo Ciro Ferrara having his debut season.

I could name one, maybe two others that did OKish elsewhere, but they were largely a cobbled together bunch of illustrious nobodies which Diego made punch well above their weight.
 
Absolutely. They were all on display in 1986 but we knew they were on their last legs so it's not like the tournament in itself was used as a contest/barometer of their relative levels.

The thing is, while Maradona played for the team (may have been misinterpreted when calling him the better soloist), he hadn't made teams tick the way Zico or Platini had, both at club and international level.

You could see the signs of this changing in his second season at Napoli. They had narrowly escaped relegation prior to his arrival and they still looked destined for relegation six months after his arrival. I think around that time it must have clicked that this was Argentinos all over again: you can aim for the goalscoring awards but you won't win anything. They signed some decent players, yes, but this wasn't the sort of juggernaut Platini commanded at Juve.

That's really what it boils down to, nobody else could have accomplished what he did at WC86 and Serie A 86-87. No one ever had or ever will have the dual record of being individually unplayable while raising an entire XI to heights way beyond their capabilities (no, they weren't crap, but they weren't anything special either).

For those into F1, writing this just reminded me of how much the later Senna-Prost rivalry reminded me of the Maradona-Platini debate. Lots of parallels there. Now I think of it, maybe Messi is Hamilton in all



I see the same parallels you do between Prost/Platini and Senna/Maradona. The first pair is characterized by their high efficiency, although their appeal may be subjective. Their style isn’t as flashy or eye-catching as the other pair; rather, it’s calculated and methodical. Prost, for example, had an exceptional ability to manage his car throughout a race, much like how Platini could find space or make well-timed runs into the penalty box( by didn’t make some flashy dribbles). Both are also from France.

On the other hand, Maradona and Senna, both hailing from South America, had styles that were more flamboyant and captivating. They were not just great athletes but were also revered almost as deities in their respective fields. A notable similarity is that before joining McLaren, Senna was already regarded as one of the top drivers globally. However, whether he was the absolute best at that time was still debatable, despite his impressive performances with Toleman and Lotus. Similarly, before the 1986 World Cup, Maradona was already a top-tier player in the worls. Still, whether he was the best of the best in the world was a bit questionable, especially considering Platini was widely regarded as the top player during that period. This situation is quite similar to Prost’s status before 1988( undoubtedly the best driver in the world ahead of someone like Piquet or Mansell). Both were also a bit/a lot controversial characters and hot-headed too.
 
I'm not talking about carrying a good but underperforming/transitioning side.

I'm talking about making what was otherwise a midtable side at best play like champions. This is before Careca/Alemao (who were far from being van Basten/Rijkaard), the only other player that had a great career beyond Napoli was a 19/20yo Ciro Ferrara having his debut season.

I could name one, maybe two others that did OKish elsewhere, but they were largely a cobbled together bunch of illustrious nobodies which Diego made punch well above their weight.

I get it, specially regarding Diego's tenure, but I do not share the Messi part to such extent.

Also there is a way different pression and expectation regarding carrying a Barca side in that period. So there are always more aspects to take in account. More in that particular season I've mentioned as an example, Barca was closer to suicidal than underperfoming, it was just bizarre the level of perfomances of many even big names and actual particular situations that team did, just tragic.

PD: side note, Careca is one of those players that I always though he was always seriously underrated and lacked a bit of timing regarding his carreer.
PD2: Nostalgia got me for an instant and I´ve just recalled out of the blue some TV interview with Diego and the also underrated and fantastic Bertoni dressed a la Miami Vice. What a duo.
 
I get it, specially regarding Diego's tenure, but I do not share the Messi part to such extent.

Also there is a way different pression and expectation regarding carrying a Barca side in that period. So there are always more aspects to take in account. More in that particular season I've mentioned as an example, Barca was closer to suicidal than underperfoming, it was just bizarre the level of perfomances of many even big names and actual particular situations that team did, just tragic.

PD: side note, Careca is one of those players that I always though he was always seriously underrated and lacked a bit of timing regarding his carreer.
PD2: Nostalgia got me for an instant and I´ve just recalled out of the blue some TV interview with Diego and the also underrated and fantastic Bertoni dressed a la Miami Vice. What a duo.
I agree Messi has done what he could in that regard with Argentina, but there's no comparing the carrying of Barca by scoring 50+ goals in a season with the way Maradona dragged Napoli to a double while scoring less goals every season as they moved from 8th to 3rd and then 1st. He only scored twice as many goals as at the World Cup over the entire league season, but the defence was better protected with him exerting greater control over games and the rest of the team scored more.

I did point out Careca wasn't there yet because I agree, lovely player and partnership which enabled them to sustain a challenge and stay there or thereabouts until they won it again in 89-90. Then Diego fails a drugs test after the World Cup and they go straight back down to 8th.

Barca haven't gone back down to 8th by the way. In fact they have finished every season higher than Messi's last one. Covid, mates gone, etc. but they were always title challenging material with or without Messi.
 
i thought i was chatting to a really attractive woman on tinder, but it turned out to be 15 year-old maradona.
 
I see the same parallels you do between Prost/Platini and Senna/Maradona. The first pair is characterized by their high efficiency, although their appeal may be subjective. Their style isn’t as flashy or eye-catching as the other pair; rather, it’s calculated and methodical. Prost, for example, had an exceptional ability to manage his car throughout a race, much like how Platini could find space or make well-timed runs into the penalty box( by didn’t make some flashy dribbles). Both are also from France.

On the other hand, Maradona and Senna, both hailing from South America, had styles that were more flamboyant and captivating. They were not just great athletes but were also revered almost as deities in their respective fields. A notable similarity is that before joining McLaren, Senna was already regarded as one of the top drivers globally. However, whether he was the absolute best at that time was still debatable, despite his impressive performances with Toleman and Lotus. Similarly, before the 1986 World Cup, Maradona was already a top-tier player in the worls. Still, whether he was the best of the best in the world was a bit questionable, especially considering Platini was widely regarded as the top player during that period. This situation is quite similar to Prost’s status before 1988( undoubtedly the best driver in the world ahead of someone like Piquet or Mansell). Both were also a bit/a lot controversial characters and hot-headed too.
Good account of it all. If I may add: their reapective relationships with sport governing bodies, another parallel.
 
Hahaha no insult there, yeah age creeps up on us. The first game of footy I went to was in 1968 when I saw George Best play.
Nearly the same as me. The first game I went to was United winning the league 6-1 at West Ham in 1967. In those days one could pay on the door to watch a League-winning fixture.
 
Hahaha no insult there, yeah age creeps up on us. The first game of footy I went to was in 1968 when I saw George Best play.
Nearly the same as me. The first game I went to was United winning the league 6-1 at West Ham in 1967. In those days one could pay on the door to watch a League-winning fixture.
The first year you went to the stadium is the year that I was born hahaha(1968).
 
@Fobal @antohan @oneniltothearsenal (anyone who has lived in South America when Maradonamania was building)

Don’t know if any of you were around then or were fed the hype of the 15yr old version, but wanted to ask how accurate this account is? That Maradona was already a star before he even debuted?

Vid revealed some things I didn’t know especially the Barcelona-Boca bit and concentration camp contract… the late 70’s timeline obviously Venn’s with Platini and Zico and it sounds like Maradona was - according to Guerin Sportivo - already the one to beat before the other two came to prominence, so they had to wrestle it from him… not the other way round?

Certainly some twists adding new light to what I thought was a well worn narrative!
Great video. Not sure why the narrator makes out that the Ballon D'Or being awarded to European players was some kind of nefarious conspiracy though. It was conceived as a European footballer of the Year award by a French magazine, at a time when the football world was not as concentrated as it is now.

Maradona in his book talks about how crushed he was to not be selected for the 1978 World Cup side, and it was a grudge he held against the manager Menotti forever, even though they worked together again after that.
 
The first year you went to the stadium is the year that I was born hahaha(196

The first year you went to the stadium is the year that I was born hahaha(1968).
Luckily I am old enough to have seen live the likes of Best, Law, Charlton, Greaves, Osgood, Cooke amongst many good players. It’s like growing up listening to the Beatles before they broke up.
 
I agree Messi has done what he could in that regard with Argentina, but there's no comparing the carrying of Barca by scoring 50+ goals in a season with the way Maradona dragged Napoli to a double while scoring less goals every season as they moved from 8th to 3rd and then 1st. He only scored twice as many goals as at the World Cup over the entire league season, but the defence was better protected with him exerting greater control over games and the rest of the team scored more.

I did point out Careca wasn't there yet because I agree, lovely player and partnership which enabled them to sustain a challenge and stay there or thereabouts until they won it again in 89-90. Then Diego fails a drugs test after the World Cup and they go straight back down to 8th.

Barca haven't gone back down to 8th by the way. In fact they have finished every season higher than Messi's last one. Covid, mates gone, etc. but they were always title challenging material with or without Messi.

Yeah I totally get the point, specially when we put everything on a general context and the expectations and capability of both teams historically.

But when we dig more in particulars regarding what Messi did in many periods with many of those Barcas at times it was beyond belief, those weren't Hamiltom/Schumi best car by a mile situations but at the same time people demanding winning everything.

People talk about the names, but he kept that juggernaut in appearence, more than a kayak in reality in many situations, not only a float, but actually competing on every front. The season I've mentioned specially, I trully put it on a level of carrying of what any giant of the game has made in the history of the sport no matter team, it was so cruel to all end with "just" the Liga title, that semi with Liverpool and that Copa del Rey Final he deserved everything, few times I've seen a group of players shooting their own feet in such a manner (Karius comes to my mind as the ultimate stuff regarding that or some City/PSG lapses in KO CLs matches in recent years), but even those were mostly on crucial games, that 2018/19 Barca was annoying as fvck the whole season.
If he had pull out that treble, it would have been sthg beyond extraordinary given the stupidity of the managmenet, the drop in level of his best mates, the bizarre level of expectations regarding teh actual level of the team or lack of it and even Ter Stegen the other sole trusty soldier the whole season being extraordinary too, to have for isntance such a bizarre semi with Liverpool. Anyway I'm derrailing the thread and this is a Diegote one.


BTW regarding being flamboyant but assertive I was talking on another vid, this one beñlow it's a great example of some of his progressive passing and even assists with backheels, there a lot more vids longer than this mone, but this one is a pretty well made condensed one. We can amke also others with bycicle kicks or rabonas in the same style, assitint, making progressive plays or even defending. Almost every time he ss taking advantage of the moment, assertive, quick, precise, not juts pour le galerie or showboating.

 
Great video. Not sure why the narrator makes out that the Ballon D'Or being awarded to European players was some kind of nefarious conspiracy though. It was conceived as a European footballer of the Year award by a French magazine, at a time when the football world was not as concentrated as it is now.

Maradona in his book talks about how crushed he was to not be selected for the 1978 World Cup side, and it was a grudge he held against the manager Menotti forever, even though they worked together again after that.

He didn't exactly hold a grudge with Menotti regarding his persona, Cesar would remain his favorite coah ever, but yes he never forgive him for crushing his dream of playing that WC.
He was absolutely ready, no matter what Cesar might said, even beyond that, but we would never know how much the Junta was involved to not sellect him or how tight Menotti wanted to keep his team without Ego fights. Menotti had already an extraordinary team capable of anything in a period where Argentina had lots of offensive great midfielders, even the nowadays forgotten Valencia was a great player himself.
Yet of course Maradona and Bochini could have easily be sellected, at that point maybe not calling Bochini was even more of tragedy.
 
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He didn't exactly hold a grudge with Menotti regarding his persona, Cesar would remain his favorite coah ever, but yes he never forgive him for crushing his dream of playing that WC.
He was absolutely ready, no matter waht Cersar might say, even beyond that, but we would never know how much the Junta was involved to not sellect him, how tight Menotti wanted to keep his team unite without Ego fights. Menotti had already an extraordinary team capable of anything in a period where Argentina had lots of offensive great midfielders, even the nowadays forgotten Valencia was great player himself.

Yet of course Maradona and Bochini could have easily be sellected, at that point maybe not calling Bochini was even more of tragedy.
Yeah, you described it better. I didn't really mean 'grudge', I meant that he was still upset with Menotti about it decades later, that he was not given the opportunity to be part of the team that won the World Cup at home (which is of course a totally different 'party' feeling from winning it on foreign soil)