What's our best current first 11 in the light of recent performances?

Adam22

Guest
I'd go for Barthez; Brown (right back), Ferdinand, Silvestre (centre back), O'Shea (left back); Verón (wide right midfield), Beckham (holding midfield), Scholes (attacking central midfield), Giggs; Solksjaer, van Nistelrooy.

Sorry, not a fan of Keane... I think Beckham would do a better job now in that position. Not 100% sure about Verón in that position, but SAF is not going to sell him and I have to find SOME way of accommodating a £28m player. Scholes has to play in that position... he is perhaps our most important player and is too effective playing there to be shoved out wider or further forward... Barthez is in there purely because of the way he has played in the last two games when he has been truly immense... the fingertip save from Pires was a true turning point in Saturday's game. Prior to that, I would probably have chosen Carroll ahead of him (haven't seen enough of Ricardo to pick him ahead of Roy). OK, enough... any comments?
 
in light of recent performances:

1. Keane, Rio, Becks have not played. And when Rio and Becks played this year they have not been better than anyone in the team, have they? You can't make a fair judgement on whether they have been better than the rest of the team, or can you? On the merits of their potential, i wouldn't disagree, but not on the merits of their recent performances, no.

2. If you want to pick Becks ahead of Keane, you have to do better than just simply saying "sorry not a fan of keane". In light of his past performances, he's been the best one in the team. This does not justify your reasons for excluding him.

3. Beckham has been best out wide for years with United. He's been ineffective in center of midfield, yet you put him right smack in the center of things. Worse, you make him our defensive midfielder (or holding, whichever you want to call it). I think your team lacks strength in CM. Phil would do a better job than Becks there right now IMO.

4. Rio hasn't played well, how can you say "in light of recent performance" then stick him in there with Silvestre? Brown and Garry Neville have been superb in their positions, why move Brown and eliminate Gaz? What's your reason for this? You're not a fan of Gaz either?

Weaste or Giggzy, how do we refer to this type of a fan? A Cockney Red I believe? Forgive me if i'm wrong.
 
Originally posted by Adam22:
<strong>.

Sorry, not a fan of Keane... I think Beckham would do a better job now in that position. </strong><hr></blockquote>


That's your Red Cafe career ended before it's begun then. ;)
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RUnited and Secretary Bird: As soon as I saw 'London' in the 'from' section, I knew someone would comment... I was born in Ashton-u-Lyne, lived in Marple for 25 years, Málaga for 10, lived in London for the last five... does that make me 'worthy' as if it matters. Will respond to more important issues in your message when I have more time... right now, I have to get some work done... watch this space...
 
Originally posted by Adam22:
<strong>RUnited and Secretary Bird: ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

:eek:

Sexist as well. RU gets his name, I just get a "status".........

And I'm from the South Coast, so your comment isn't valid where I'm concerned.
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Originally posted by Adam22:
<strong>RUnited and Secretary Bird: As soon as I saw 'London' in the 'from' section, I knew someone would comment... I was born in Ashton-u-Lyne, lived in Marple for 25 years, Málaga for 10, lived in London for the last five... does that make me 'worthy' as if it matters. Will respond to more important issues in your message when I have more time... right now, I have to get some work done... watch this space...</strong><hr></blockquote>

hahaha.. i wasn't serious about that.. was just kidding around with you.. altho i'd like to hear what you have to say to possible 20 other posts that would disagree with yours.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

:eek:

Sexist as well. RU gets his name, I just get a "status".........

And I'm from the South Coast, so your comment isn't valid where I'm concerned.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i wasn't pleased he didn't call me "The Serious One" :D it took me a whole lot of effort to finally get the status i like.. least people could do is refer to me by it <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Originally posted by Adam22:
<strong>I'd go for Barthez; Brown (right back), Ferdinand, Silvestre (centre back), O'Shea (left back); Verón (wide right midfield), Beckham (holding midfield), Scholes (attacking central midfield), Giggs; Solksjaer, van Nistelrooy.

Sorry, not a fan of Keane... I think Beckham would do a better job now in that position. Not 100% sure about Verón in that position, but SAF is not going to sell him and I have to find SOME way of accommodating a £28m player. Scholes has to play in that position... he is perhaps our most important player and is too effective playing there to be shoved out wider or further forward... Barthez is in there purely because of the way he has played in the last two games when he has been truly immense... the fingertip save from Pires was a true turning point in Saturday's game. Prior to that, I would probably have chosen Carroll ahead of him (haven't seen enough of Ricardo to pick him ahead of Roy). OK, enough... any comments?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Are you sure you actually watch the matches, Beckham as a defensive holding player???????
Veron as a right winger????????? i think you are a bit confused, Veron's best performances have been holding midfield (e.g. against Arsenal) or on the left with Giggs upfront(in the CL).

The only player who make it straight back into the team would be Keane, no doubt about it, on current team form, an addition of Keane would bring back 98-99 treble form.

The last two mathches have proved the team can now play without Keane, as we used to rely on him as our play maker, but with him, our team is like 12 players on the pitch. From his latest comments I think he will let veron and Co. do the play-making and he will concentrate on being a defensive midfileder more. Beckham should take the same advise and play as right winger.
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Hmmm, sorry about that, Livvie... was in too much of a hurry to post a reply and then get the hell off again... not sorry about failing to mention that you were the 'Serious One' (a misnomer if ever there was one)... OK, well, I guess my 'light of recent performances' was probably aimed at the defence, where the mood has changed considerably with the outstanding performances of Silvestre, Brown and O'Shea... and no, I'm not a massive G Neville fan... I think he relies too much on catching the opposition offside (and too often fails to succeed) and he's far too prone to bollock-dropping in big games... Vasco da Gama, 'catching' the ball against Liverpool, letting Goater in against City... Keane, in spite of his undoubted ability, has been a liability recently and I just cannot accept that someone will insist on putting personal vendettas before the importance of the team... he's going to cause some major internal problems at OT before he goes, you mark my words... he ain't going to go out gracefully... As for Beckham playing in a holding role, his energy, tackling, distribution and motivational qualities mean he'd be a shoe-in to play in that position... plus, he's always WANTED to play there so no reluctance problems either... well, that's all I have to say about that. Sexist? Me? Well, maybe sometimes, but only ever inadvertently... easy for you to say...
 
Originally posted by Adam22:
[QB]Keane, in spite of his undoubted ability, has been a liability recently and I just cannot accept that someone will insist on putting personal vendettas before the importance of the team... he's going to cause some major internal problems at OT before he goes, you mark my words... he ain't going to go out gracefully... As for Beckham playing in a holding role, his energy, tackling, distribution and motivational qualities mean he'd be a shoe-in to play in that position... plus, he's always WANTED to play there so no reluctance problems either... /QB]<hr></blockquote>

If you're basing it on Becks' great ability to tackle, you barking up the wrong horse, He's not very good at it (hence a lot of yellow cards). The fact that he wants to play there is his problem. Thats for the manager to decide and if he doesn't like it - he can go.

As for Keano, a liability is a word so stupid to describe him it's unreal. One would think he bashes someone up with a sending off offence every couple of matches.
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Can anyone tell me why, injuries permitting, we can't field exactly the same team as for Arsenal ?I don't care who's fit to play, whether it be Becks, Rio or Keane himself, they should not walk back into this side automatically but should start on the bench. It would be a tremendous vote of confidence to the current team enabling the newly found morale and spirit to remain high. It will also send a clear message that no place is guaranteed and that some of the inept performances of earlier, in which the returnees featured, are totally unacceptable from now on. They have to gear themselves up to a higher level of commitment and performance if they are to feature. Actually it's a healthy situation for the Club to be in.
 
No manager in his right mind would leave out a fully fit Roy Keane no matter how well the team was playing. Keano is world class, he is the team captain, the engine of the team and our talisman.

There's Only 1 Keano! <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
 
OK, granted that judging him purely on his ability to play football, the guy's a class act. Imagine what he'd be like with a less destructive side to his game... not getting himself injured with rash tackles or not getting himself sent off in important games at vital times... FA Cup semi final replay v Arsenal, away at Newcastle, Sunderland and City... in the past, his good performances have outweighed his bad sufficiently for it not to be an issue. I'm worried that things are going to start sliding the other way after his recent problems... Would I right in saying that he's far and away the most popular player at OT? He seems untouchable on here...
 
Keano, Keano, Keano, Keano....... <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
 
Originally posted by Adam22:
OK, granted that judging him purely on his ability to play football, the guy's a class act. Imagine what he'd be like with a less destructive side to his game...<hr></blockquote>

If Roy Keane was truely a destructive player he would not be either as successful or as influential as he has been over the years. Now, I am not denying that he has a problem with his temper or that it hasn't cost us and Keane himself in the past, but the good has undoubtedly outweighted the bad and that is why he remains central to United's chances of winning trophies.

I'm worried that things are going to start sliding the other way after his recent problems...<hr></blockquote>

Well, if you take Keano at his word, he says he's coming back a reformed man!!!

Would I right in saying that he's far and away the most popular player at OT? He seems untouchable on here...<hr></blockquote>

No player is 'untouchable'. If fans have a greater feeling for Keane than most, perhaps it's because they can see that he gives his all for the team and that with him present in the side it's never over no matter what the score.

As I said earlier, I have no doubt that a fully fit Keane would be the first name on SAF's team sheet.
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Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>No manager in his right mind would leave out a fully fit Roy Keane no matter how well the team was playing. Keano is world class, he is the team captain, the engine of the team and our talisman.

There's Only 1 Keano! <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

You have a point but nobody is indispensable including Roy. What I'm saying is that Fergie has an opportunity to make a very clear statement about what is now required to be part of this team. Reputations should count for nothing in the new climate. Perhaps Keane is the exception, then again what has been shown recently, and I never thought it would be, is that we can get on without him. Even Keane can improve on one or two things with discipline and too much off field chat being the most obvious but also, according to Roy that is, his performance level. Nobody's place should be guaranteed and above all why should Phil be told to step aside after Saturday's performance, to make way for Keane to return ? Let them all wait, it won't do them or the team any harm whatsoever.
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Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>Can anyone tell me why, injuries permitting, we can't field exactly the same team as for Arsenal ?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Looks like that's what SAF is intending to do against Deportivo. BBC site says Beckham is fit to play but is likely to be on the bench.
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United have a long history of brilliant mavericks who have found themselves in trouble with authority.

Best: though he was more in trouble with management than refs.

Cantona: Probably the most important player at United in the last 30 years.

Keane: We all wish he'd cut out the petulants stuff, but that seems to be part of his game.


I don't think there is any chance that a fit Roy Keane will not be in any United team for the next couple of seasons. His influence on the game is simply too profound.
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
You have a point but nobody is indispensable including Roy. What I'm saying is that Fergie has an opportunity to make a very clear statement about what is now required to be part of this team. Reputations should count for nothing in the new climate. Perhaps Keane is the exception, then again what has been shown recently, and I never thought it would be, is that we can get on without him. Even Keane can improve on one or two things with discipline and too much off field chat being the most obvious but also, according to Roy that is, his performance level. Nobody's place should be guaranteed and above all why should Phil be told to step aside after Saturday's performance, to make way for Keane to return ? Let them all wait, it won't do them or the team any harm whatsoever.<hr></blockquote>

I didn't for one moment suggest that Keano was indispensible or that we should play him because of his reputation. The reason why I would have him in the team is because he is a world class player and has qualities that no one else can offer at this moment. Yes, Phil Neville was awesome on Saturday and did the job when it mattered (and I have stuck up for him in another thread), but he doesn't have the all-round quality that Roy does and leaving Roy on the bench just to prove a point does nothing to help the team. A manager needs to pick his team according to those who he feels have the capabilities to win matches so it's no use leaving your best players on the bench if they would be better off playing.

However, the above argument only refers to Keano. As for the other players such as Becks and Rio, I do feel we have adequate world-class replacements for them at the moment, so I would start them on the bench - but not to prove a point but because right now, I don't think they would offer us anything more than the players who have replaced them.
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