What about Veron?

[RUnited]

I'm not sure what happened, but I heard Veron had the flu and was sent home before the poo game.

My question is this:

Will he be playing against Arsenal?

The past two games we have won superbly in the league we have done so without Veron - but he didn't play because he was not fit in both games.

Will he be made to work his way back into this on-form United side or will SAF just stick him right in without much consideration for the other players?

 

[RUnited]

i know it's the same question i asked last week, but now is different. I think we can all agree Veron would have played had he not been sent home before the game. And also, now we have gone 2 superb games in the EPL without him, so will this justify his position on the bench?

I said before the poo game that Gaz should play because of his experience, and he certainly came through. So I would now say i think Veron should play against arse because he's a big-game player IMO. any opinions?

 

[Spoock]

I also think Veron should play Arsenal, he's a big name player and have proved that he is absolute best in the big games, so bring him on.

 

[becks_007]

Originally posted by Spoock:
<strong>I also think Veron should play Arsenal, he's a big name player and have proved that he is absolute best in the big games, so bring him on.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Excue Me!!!! I think he should not play, does anyone remember how he played llast season against Arsenal. He is there only to play in Europe and play a small part in the league, as a substitute or an odd starting place.

 

[uranushk1]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>I said before the poo game that Gaz should play because of his experience, and he certainly came through. So I would now say i think Veron should play against arse because he's a big-game player IMO. any opinions?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Excuse me, but how he get the name of "big-game player" is beyond me. His performance in all four matches against Arsenal and Liverpool last season were average or below average, and so were the two CL semi-final against Leverkusen. Just when will people discover that Veron is totally surplus to our need (especially in EPL)? The worst thing we can do now is to change the winning team which are playing so well. We can forsee that the game against Arsenal will be a fast and fierce battle, and Veron is certainly not suitable to this kind of match.

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by Spoock:
<strong>I also think Veron should play Arsenal, he's a big name player and have proved that he is absolute best in the big games, so bring him on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[thumper]

Hey Spoock, are you out of your Vulcan mind???

 

[mu11]

If we are playing 4-4-2, there is simply no place for Veron because at every position there is a better option.

I can only see him play if we switch back to 4-5-1, but that is the last thing I want to see, especially when we are playing at home.

 

[Dominant]

contrary to what many people said, veron is NOT a big game player, judging from his performances against the arse and scousers last season. Not to mention the 2 times he disappeared in the CL semi finals against bayer leverkusen. I hope SAF would stick with fortune in midfield, but Veron will probably get his place back. Having said all that, i'll veron can prove me and any other doubters wrong and put on a masterful display against the gooners come this saturday.

 

[devilish]

Veron should attend the Paul Scholes school of football.

The more Scholesky is playing the more he is making JSV look ridiculous.

SAF should play players who really deserve to play rather than playing them for their reputation.

Scholes had been magnificent against Newcastle and Liverpool

 

[uranushk1]

Originally posted by Dominant:
<strong>contrary to what many people said, veron is NOT a big game player, </strong><hr></blockquote>

"Veron is a big game player" is the most humourous thing I've heard recently.

 

[uranushk1]

Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Veron should attend the Paul Scholes school of football.

The more Scholesky is playing the more he is making JSV look ridiculous.

SAF should play players who really deserve to play rather than playing them for their reputation.

Scholes had been magnificent against Newcastle and Liverpool</strong><hr></blockquote>

Scholes has been magnificant all thru the season, not only those two games.

If He hasn't been injured earlier and Fergie has used him as midfielder in all games so far this season, we may be level with Arsenal in the league table now!

 

[ah_new]

I think Fergie will lets veron plays in first eleven, but i hope Fergie will list veron in sups.
Forture and Scholes had played very well yesterday!

 

[RUnited]

i understand the humour in you all hearing that Veron is a big game player, but i also remember some of you slagging Gaz before the poo game. So beware of being proven wrong in this instance.

Veron plays big plays in CL games - and that for all of us is a big competition. if we do go on to win the CL it'll most likely be because of his inclusion in the team. it has been clear that we were beyond winning the CL after '99 and Veron came in to help us to the semi's last year.. he'll most likely feature again this year too.

so i think it's best we give him opportunities to play teams like Arsenal to get him even more suited to our quick game. it's only for the best.

 

[WeasteDevil]

If he's fit SAF will play him, like it or not.

 

[CJ]

We can play without Seba in EPL but not in Champions League. He's good in Chanpion League so I think Fergie should let him play as sub next weekend againts Arsenal.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>If he's fit SAF will play him, like it or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>

agreed.

 

[antonio]

Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

"Veron is a big game player" is the most humourous thing I've heard recently. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Why you hate veron so much?? i mean all the time! even when he plays well, neways feck you uranushk, you piece of SHIT!!!!!

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[DanishDevil]

Originally posted by Spoock:
<strong>I also think Veron should play Arsenal, he's a big name player and have proved that he is absolute best in the big games, so bring him on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ahem... (don't bring shame to the Danes by statements like that )

btw... Længe siden man har set noget til dig heromkring...

 

[LenSharkey]

saf said same team again didnt he ? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

 

[MauritianRed]

Originally posted by Spoock:
<strong>I also think Veron should play Arsenal, he's a big name player and have proved that he is absolute best in the big games, so bring him on.</strong><hr></blockquote>This is really spooky. I get scared by statements like these.

 

[zippy]

Anyone who has the balls to look quinten fortune in the eyes and tell him he's out after the performances he put in over the last 2 games could only be discribed as a wanker.

Fortune has earned his place v arse. If after 20 minutes he's not doing the business then he can be pulled off, but as far as i'm concerned if he keeps playing the way he's playing then he simply has to keep his place.

Dont tell me Veron is a big game player. Derbys with city dont come much bigger and he was totaly hopeless. at one point in the game he ran 30 yards to take the ball off silvestre, he then tried to play a ridiculous cross field pass from silvestre's position which was intercepted by a city player who then headed towards our goal, veron then sprinted back the 30 yards where he came from to give away a free kick right on the edge of our box. It was the most outrageously foolish play i have seen in a long time.

Forget Veron, fortune is doing the business and is as cool as a cucumber to boot.

 

[uranushk1]

Originally posted by antonio:
<strong>
Why you hate veron so much?? i mean all the time! even when he plays well, neways feck you uranushk, you piece of SHIT!!!!!

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Can't manage to use civilized language to discuss why you think Veron is great?

 

[uranushk1]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>Veron plays big plays in CL games - and that for all of us is a big competition. if we do go on to win the CL it'll most likely be because of his inclusion in the team. it has been clear that we were beyond winning the CL after '99 and Veron came in to help us to the semi's last year.. he'll most likely feature again this year too.

so i think it's best we give him opportunities to play teams like Arsenal to get him even more suited to our quick game. it's only for the best.</strong><hr></blockquote>

RUnied I admire your analysis when I read your editorial in the Cafe earlier, but so far in recent weeks I think your analyze is deterioting rapidly, and you looks more and more similar to murt and weaste now. For god's sake, Veron playing well in CL simply becasue the opponents are crap and the slow Europe style suit him, there's nothing related to big games or not! Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester Derby, CL semi-final are all big games, and there are no bigger game than the World Cup in this world, yet he didn't help the team win even one of them! Or you think Olympiakos, Haifa, Biasel are bigger games than those I mentioned?

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

RUnied I admire your analysis when I read your editorial in the Cafe earlier, but so far in recent weeks I think your analyze is deterioting rapidly, and you looks more and more similar to murt and weaste now. For god's sake, Veron playing well in CL simply becasue the opponents are crap and the slow Europe style suit him, there's nothing related to big games or not! Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester Derby, CL semi-final are all big games, and there are no bigger game than the World Cup in this world, yet he didn't help the team win even one of them! Or you think Olympiakos, Haifa, Biasel are bigger games than those I mentioned?</strong><hr></blockquote>

hahaha, i don't think either murt or weaste will be happy to hear you say that for a start!

anyhow, i do agree with you that Veron has underperformed in recent times, but i still am with an opinion that:

1. If Forlan can come good, then so can Veron. Veron is even more highly rated for his potential so he has even bigger probability of making it for us.

2. Tactics play a lot of role in a player's game. SAF has opted for the attacking formation recently and our players have performed wonderfully. The moment he cracks a good tactic for Veron he will also be able to perform.

We have said all year long that we need wings that stay out wide, and look what happened when Ole stuck to his wing?

We have also said all year long that Veron needs space to play football. So if our wings can stick to their side Veron will be left with more space to play football, this could in a way enhance his game.

I am with a belief that SAF will play Veron if he's fit, so i think our arguments should be about how best to play Veron rather than who best to play for Veron.

 

[osterdal]

I wouldn't play Veron on Saturday. Not because he's not a good enough footballer but because those who won against Newcastle and Liverpool should be rewarded for this. Also, Arse at home will most likely not be a match that fits Veron's style.

And, maybe most important: Who would be dropped? It has to be one from Giggs, Scholes, Fortune, Ole, Diego or Ruud. Dropping Diego after two goals at Anfield would be criminal, so would dropping Ruud at current form be. Scholes won't be dropped the same goes for Giggs, that's for anyone to see based on team selections the last season and a half. And Fortune will not be dropped, he has played brilliant and we won't play without a defensive midfielder against Arse - so forget that idea.

That leaves Ole as the one who'll be dropped if Veron plays. In reality it would also mean that we'll play without a RM. Having Ole on the bench tho is a better option than Veron tho, if you want to change the match. So in that aspect it would make sense to have Ole on the bench. However, his latest performances has been superb and I believe having him on the pitch would give us more than him being used as a sub.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

RUnied I admire your analysis when I read your editorial in the Cafe earlier, but so far in recent weeks I think your analyze is deterioting rapidly, and you looks more and more similar to murt and weaste now.</strong><hr></blockquote>

btw uranushk1 (blind me! your name takes a while to spell correctly! ) I only slag the team's tactics and plays.. i never slag the players because i truly believe any player can play well with a good tactic.

It all comes down to a tactic a team uses. If it suits the players, it WILL work atleast for the while the players are in good form.

But then ultimately, players get into form and have good morale when the team's tactics suit their style. If they enjoy the team's plays, they will push harder to play better.

And if their tactics get caught out by oppositions, then good managers will know how to adapt to it.

Look here at the list of teams who have been a surprise in their respective leagues:

1. Real Sociedad, Spain.
2. Mallorca, Spain.
3. Everton, EPL.
4. Chievo Verona, Serie A.
5. Modena, Serie A.

It all comes down to the manager IMO. These teams don't have quality players to match the giants in their own leagues, yet are performing incredibly by their standards. They will probably lose out later in the season because their squad is not big enough to last a whole season, but it doesn't mean they're not good or their manager isn't good. Some of our forum posters even want Moyes to succeed SAF - that says enough how highly we think of his work at Everton.

You don't need 30m player like Veron in your team to do well, but it's always a plus. And that's why i think we should use him better because he's an invaluable asset. He's already here, so why not play him to his fullest ability?

 

[farawaylands]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

1. If Forlan can come good, then so can Veron. Veron is even more highly rated for his potential so he has even bigger probability of making it for us.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

when was forlan bad?

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by farawaylands:
<strong>

when was forlan bad?</strong><hr></blockquote>

i didn't use the word bad. but he surely wasn't performing up to the level of our fans' expectations. You should know this, or you just haven't watched when he played at all. To go 30 games without scoring as a striker is not considered as good. He may not have been entirely bad, but sure wasn't very good and many of the posters in this forum were calling for his head earlier this season.

The point is many of us stood by him, and he's now producing a scoring form, which was what we expected from him. i still support Veron and fully believe he too can produce a good run of form. maybe he needs to come off more from the bench rather than from the start.. that could help him like it has helped many of our rotation players.

 

[reelworld]

Veron and Forlan situation is hardly the same.
For a start, the 30+ games that Forlan play that you mention is hardly the fact.
He mostly play only 10 minutes of them. When he played from the start like he did against Newcastle and Liverpool he performed extremely well.
Veron have been our staters for much of the season, and he still looked out of place in the EPL games. Does he still can say that he need to adjust to the English game? it's been 1.5 season, if he needs to adjust he needs to do it now.

 

[uranushk1]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

btw uranushk1 (blind me! your name takes a while to spell correctly! ) I only slag the team's tactics and plays.. i never slag the players because i truly believe any player can play well with a good tactic.

You don't need 30m player like Veron in your team to do well, but it's always a plus. And that's why i think we should use him better because he's an invaluable asset. He's already here, so why not play him to his fullest ability?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Well, you can just call me uranus.

I think you have not considered the fact that some players ARE really unable to settle on a club or a leauge forever, no matter how good he is. Remember Berkamp and Henry were shite in Italy yet they both became the world's top forward in Arsenal. Veron's situation is the opposite: He is a top midfielder in Italy but just can't adapt to the style of EPL. You cannot say he is not given enough time. He has been here over 15 months and started most of our games during this time, while Forlan has only been here for less than a year and the number of 90-minutes matches he completed can be counted by one hand.

One of your main point is we don't know how to utilize Veron. But then what should SAF supposed to do? Veron is already playing in his favourite position in CM, and now there is no Keano nor Beckham to "divide" his work recently, yet it's still not enough for him to perform? You just can't ask for too much. Scholes has already suffered a lot because of him. If we still need to sacrifice even more in order to accomodate him, I really doubt whether that sacrifice really worth it or not.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>


Well, you can just call me uranus.

I think you have not considered the fact that some players ARE really unable to settle on a club or a leauge forever, no matter how good he is. Remember Berkamp and Henry were shite in Italy yet they both became the world's top forward in Arsenal. Veron's situation is the opposite: He is a top midfielder in Italy but just can't adapt to the style of EPL. You cannot say he is not given enough time. He has been here over 15 months and started most of our games during this time, while Forlan has only been here for less than a year and the number of 90-minutes matches he completed can be counted by one hand.

One of your main point is we don't know how to utilize Veron. But then what should SAF supposed to do? Veron is already playing in his favourite position in CM, and now there is no Keano nor Beckham to "divide" his work recently, yet it's still not enough for him to perform? You just can't ask for too much. Scholes has already suffered a lot because of him. If we still need to sacrifice even more in order to accomodate him, I really doubt whether that sacrifice really worth it or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i'm beginning to see your point now and admit that i guess i can't be stubborn for much longer.

although i do admire his potential abilities and will support him until he becomes good or is sold.

you have made some very valid points, but i still stand by my opinion regarding his introduction into the team. it'll certainly be a possibilty to try and introduce him more often from the bench and change things on the pitch. the same way SAF has done with Forlan.

Also, SAF tends to be very patient with less-moaning players.. Veron has been very appreciative of SAF patience with him so i think SAF will continue to give that suppport.

Remember, SAF also gave a lot of support to Cole despite all the criticisms. I don't think Veron will be sold. So the question now is how to fit him in ASAP.

 

[uranushk1]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

i'm beginning to see your point now and admit that i guess i can't be stubborn for much longer.

although i do admire his potential abilities and will support him until he becomes good or is sold.

you have made some very valid points, but i still stand by my opinion regarding his introduction into the team. it'll certainly be a possibilty to try and introduce him more often from the bench and change things on the pitch. the same way SAF has done with Forlan.

Also, SAF tends to be very patient with less-moaning players.. Veron has been very appreciative of SAF patience with him so i think SAF will continue to give that suppport.

Remember, SAF also gave a lot of support to Cole despite all the criticisms. I don't think Veron will be sold. So the question now is how to fit him in ASAP.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks for agreeing with my points. I also agree with your opinion of benching Veron. So far he has been gauranteed a place in the team as long as he's fit and that may be one of the reasons why he didn't show enough desire and passion when he played. Bench him and let he fight for his place just like everyone else, that can only be benefit to us.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

Thanks for agreeing with my points. I also agree with your opinion of benching Veron. So far he has been gauranteed a place in the team as long as he's fit and that may be one of the reasons why he didn't show enough desire and passion when he played. Bench him and let he fight for his place just like everyone else, that can only be benefit to us.</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's probably how our discussion will end - thank god it's an agreement of opinion.

Yes, benching him and bringing him on with 20 minutes to go would probably justify SAF's support of him. it would help him adjusting to our game further too.