What’s going on with our reserves?

Pogue Mahone

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Question. Is it just me or does this season’s crop seem to be at some kind of all-time low when it comes to players to feel excited about? And if so, why?

Hopefully, it’s just a combination of me being less clued in about who to look out for and the general nostalgia factor where all things Manchester United seemed better/more exciting in the past. Hoping for some diverse opinions here!
 
I think that a lot of the lack of interest stems from knowing that no matter how good these kids are, they are incredibly unlikely to get a chance in the first team. I'm starting to wonder what the point is of having the U23 team. I think if more of these lads were out playing mens football, we'd have more to get excited about. As it is, we can all see that they are stuck playing in a pointless league, with little to no prospects of progression.

There is a lot of talent in some of these players. The likes of Riley, Mitchell, Gribbin and Wilson should be out making their name. But stuck playing in front of two men and a dog is not doing them any good, and they start to regress rather than improve.
 
They’re a bit of a weird age group aren’t they? The most talented have either outgrown and move on, gone on loan or are with the first team.

Pereira, Borthwick-Jackson, Fosu-Mensah, Taunzebe and Rashford are all from this age group and if they were featuring regularly the results would be quite different.

The group below them has some real talent though.
 
Pexbo said:
They’re a bit of a weird age group aren’t they? The most talented have either outgrown and move on, gone on loan or are with the first team.

Pereira, Borthwick-Jackson, Fosu-Mensah, Taunzebe and Rashford are all from this age group and if they were featuring regularly the results would be quite different.

The group below them has some real talent though.
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Maybe it’s just because the really stand-out talents are defenders/goalkeepers? Which are inherently un-exciting to watch. It just feels a long way from watching someone like Rossi, Welbeck or even Macheda looking like the best player on the pitch every time they play and making every reserves match a must-watch. This season has felt more “meh” than any other I can think of. Doesn’t help that it seems to be a no go zone for fringe first teamers, as you mention.
 
Been disappointed far too often and generally lost interest. Van Gaal sort of revived interest but lack of progress of all the kids he blooded..

1. Blackett - flop
2. McNair - sold (where is he?)
3. Pereira - out on loan, out of sight
4. Love - sold
5. Varela - Excited me but absolute nutter
6. CBJ - Looking unlikely he'll make it
7. Riley - Looked incredibly good but no progress at all
8. Rashford - Only bright spark
9. Poole - wasn't he sold?
10. TFM - In and out of the Palace team
11. Weir - ?
12. Reece James - sold
13. Thorpe - Had such hope for this lad.
14. Janko - Sold
 
Pexbo said:
They’re a bit of a weird age group aren’t they? The most talented have either outgrown and move on, gone on loan or are with the first team.

Pereira, Borthwick-Jackson, Fosu-Mensah, Taunzebe and Rashford are all from this age group and if they were featuring regularly the results would be quite different.

The group below them has some real talent though.
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This is the problem. Its a pointless age group. Anyone good will have moved up years before and everyone else would be better off going to another club where they can try and make their first team.

We should really end with U21 age group at the latest.
 
It's because almost none of them are talented enough to become first team players at any of the top six clubs.

Chelsea have great young players, as do City. United... not so much.

Why would be get excited when there is nothing to get excited about?
 
Pexbo said:
The group below them has some real talent though.
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If this is right then this is probably more important isn't it? We have plenty of youth inbetween there and the first team at the mo...enough to skip a 5 year generation you would think, as bad as that sounds.
 
We already have Rashford and Lingard in our squad. Tuanzebe is another one knocking on the door, fully expect him to be a first choice CB in the next 2-3 years.

Pereira is doing well at Valencia as a RW ( I prefer him as a CM ). He will be given the chance next season and he will be in the sqaud.

That's 4 players from the reserve .

If another 3 or 4 from the this group didnt make it to the first team then I would say there is something wrong with the setup

O'connor , Barlow , Gomes , R . Williams , Greenwood ,Chong, Demetri Mitchell ,Baars, Burkart and Puigmal
 
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I get the impression the club see it as a waste of time. The standard is awful so any players with real talent are probably better served by going on loan.
 
reddevilzZ said:
We already have Rashford and Lingard in our squad. Tuanzebe is another one knocking on the door, fully expect him to be a first choice CB in the next 2-3 years.

Pereira is doing well at Valencia as a RW ( I prefer him as a CM ). He will be given the chance next season and he will be in the sqaud.

That's 4 players from the reserve .

If another 3 or 4 from the this group didnt make it to the first team then I would say there is something wrong with the setup

O'connor , Barlow , Gomes , R . Williams , Greenwood ,Chong, Demetri Mitchell ,Baars, Burkart and Puigmal
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How many of these are playing for the reserves? 1? You've just named a heap of academy players there.
 
11101 said:
This is the problem. Its a pointless age group. Anyone good will have moved up years before and everyone else would be better off going to another club where they can try and make their first team.

We should really end with U21 age group at the latest.
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Its still the exact same thing as it was when it was called u21. Having it called u23 or u21 makes no real difference. The majority of players in the league are 17-19 anyway.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Not only is he still at Sunderland but he was lately playing in central midfield for them (!) and actually looking pretty good there lol!
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Yeah? Back to his actual position then. Never looked comfortable at centre back with Sunderland in the premier league. Didn't suit that kind of task.
 
SteveW said:
I get the impression the club see it as a waste of time. The standard is awful so any players with real talent are probably better served by going on loan.
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Agreed.

It would be great if the U-23 league was the standard of League One/League Two, clubs would be able to keep young players at the club and continue to develop them under their supervision with top quality coaches at top level facilities whilst also getting them valuable experience at a good level, instead of having to prioritize one or the other. I bet we would see a much greater % of academy players make it if that were the case.

I get the sense that often players come back from a loan where it hasn't necessarily worked out but they haven't been coached at the same level they would be at their parent club either, which has inevitably slowed their rate of progress and can often stall their careers as a result.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Maybe it’s just because the really stand-out talents are defenders/goalkeepers? Which are inherently un-exciting to watch. It just feels a long way from watching someone like Rossi, Welbeck or even Macheda looking like the best player on the pitch every time they play and making every reserves match a must-watch. This season has felt more “meh” than any other I can think of. Doesn’t help that it seems to be a no go zone for fringe first teamers, as you mention.
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The days when Macheda was an exciting talent... :) What happened to him anyway?

Do we have a single exciting attacking player in the youth/reserve team these days?
 
They've been below average for a while now. Since Pogba and Morrison let really, with the odd exception like Januzaj. LVG killed it ( in a good way i suppose) by promoting every man and his dog. I'd say we'll have to wait till the next batch come through but with like likes of Gmoes possibly leaving, it still might not hit previous heights for a while.
 
Nick7 said:
Yeah? Back to his actual position then. Never looked comfortable at centre back with Sunderland in the premier league. Didn't suit that kind of task.
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Well to be fair most Sunderland fans think he’s shit but some think he has the potential to be a great player.

Was he a centre mid in the reserves then?
 
Pexbo said:
They’re a bit of a weird age group aren’t they? The most talented have either outgrown and move on, gone on loan or are with the first team.

Pereira, Borthwick-Jackson, Fosu-Mensah, Taunzebe and Rashford are all from this age group and if they were featuring regularly the results would be quite different.

The group below them has some real talent though.
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Very well put. I guess the only thing we can do is probably give some of the U18 age group a chance at this level.
 
TheOrgazoid said:
It's because almost none of them are talented enough to become first team players at any of the top six clubs.

Chelsea have great young players, as do City. United... not so much.

Why would be get excited when there is nothing to get excited about?
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As City and Chelsea (as you say) have so many great young players, would you care to look into how many of them are getting any first team action in a top 6 team. Then compare to United's current crop.

I doubt there's a better young talent around than Angel Gomes, looks a superb prospect. I'm surprised you can't find anything to get excited about, maybe you need to take a class half full approach...
 
limerickcitykid said:
Its still the exact same thing as it was when it was called u21. Having it called u23 or u21 makes no real difference. The majority of players in the league are 17-19 anyway.
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It doesnt matter as much how old our players are, its the others in the league. Lowering the age cut off means in effect the decent players will go at 18/19 but everyone has to get their act together soon after. Currently too many languish in our reserves until their early 20s, missing the key development years, with some false hope of making it here.
 
Red_toad said:
As City and Chelsea (as you say) have so many great young players, would you care to look into how many of them are getting any first team action in a top 6 team. Then compare to United's current crop.

I doubt there's a better young talent around than Angel Gomes, looks a superb prospect. I'm surprised you can't find anything to get excited about, maybe you need to take a class half full approach...
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I would argue that the following - and these are only the England boys - are better talents than Gomes (all are in the same age group):
  • Ryan Sessengon
  • Jadon Sancho
  • Phil Foden
  • Callum Hudson-Odoi
  • Rhian Brewster
The only reason for Gomes ahead of any of those players is that he is one of ours... not very objective, is it.

Anyway, even if we assume Gomes is level with all of these... that's just two standout young players we have that come to my mind (the other is Chong).

Are there others that are on the same level as the kids at City and Chelsea? Ask yourself that objectively.
 
TheOrgazoid said:
I would argue that the following - and these are only the England boys - are better talents than Gomes (all are in the same age group):
  • Ryan Sessengon
  • Jadon Sancho
  • Phil Foden
  • Callum Hudson-Odoi
  • Rhian Brewster
The only reason for Gomes ahead of any of those players is that he is one of ours... not very objective, is it.

Anyway, even if we assume Gomes is level with all of these... that's just two standout young players we have that come to my mind (the other is Chong).

Are there others that are on the same level as the kids at City and Chelsea? Ask yourself that objectively.
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Yeah there are actually quite a few who are at a similar level to the lads at Chelsea and City and quite a few that Chelsea and City actually tried to sign. Chelsea and City might have a higher base level of talent than us in certain age groups which can help get better results but they don't really have any more special players than we do.
 
It is so difficult to make it as a top footballer. The Messi's and Ronaldo's are like finding a needle in a haystack. Read an interesting article once that said, out of the 2 million playing football in England, only something like 150 will play in the PL.
 
jb8521 said:
Yeah there are actually quite a few who are at a similar level to the lads at Chelsea and City and quite a few that Chelsea and City actually tried to sign. Chelsea and City might have a higher base level of talent than us in certain age groups which can help get better results but they don't really have any more special players than we do.
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Which are the best young players that we have? I will assume that you have watched our academy players lately a lot more than I have (I haven't).
 
Damien said:
Hiring Sbragia probably hasn't helped. Such an uninspiring manager.
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I wish we'd bring Joyce back. No shame in not making it as a first team manager elsewhere, he's was an excellent manager for our young lads and could be the next Harrison.
 
Pexbo said:
I wish we'd bring Joyce back. No shame in not making it as a first team manager elsewhere, he's was an excellent manager for our young lads and could be the next Harrison.
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He's sunning it up in Aus with Melbourne City now unfortunately and probably making more than he'd earn here.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yet you confidently state that none of them are as good as a bunch of kids from other clubs. Why’s that?
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When I say "lately", I am refering to the previous three months. I have relocated to a different city, don't have a TV and certainly haven't had the resources or time to watch Manchester United's U18s.

So I am using the forum to gain the insights of others who know more than me about this particular subject.

The last time I watched the U18s, the only two players that stood out in that age group were Gomes and Chong. That was it. I just want to know if anything has changed.

The last five years of U18 dominance between City and Chelsea suggests that they have for a while been setting the standard.
 
TheOrgazoid said:
When I say "lately", I am refering to the previous three months. I have relocated to a different city, don't have a TV and certainly haven't had the resources or time to watch Manchester United's U18s.

So I am using the forum to gain the insights of others who know more than me about this particular subject.

The last time I watched the U18s, the only two players that stood out in that age group were Gomes and Chong. That was it. I just want to know if anything has changed.

The last five years of U18 dominance between City and Chelsea suggests that they have for a while been setting the standard.
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Well those five years of U18 dominance should be producing a glut of stars in their early 20s right about now. Where are they?

FWIW, I think there's a massive rate of attrition between U18 and first team football, so there's not much point getting too hyped up about anyone in that age group, unless they're also dominating for the reserves. Which is where I think we've been lacking this last couple of years. I'm not seeing any of the one or two really exceptional talents I've got used to seeing play for our reserves since I started following them, in the days of Rossi and Pique. Although this might be just because I'm not following them as closely as I used to. Hence, I started this thread to get opinions from people better informed than me.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
Well those five years of U18 dominance should be producing a glut of stars in their early 20s right about now. Where are they?
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At other clubs.
Chelsea have, since Abramovich, never been a club that will use youth talent. That doesn't mean that their youth talent isn't better than ours.

City have been too ambitious, in terms of attaining short term success, to risk first team results by using teenagers. That doesn't mean that their youth taren't isn't better than ours.

Then we factor in that the current crops of young players shared between Man City and Chelsea are arguably the best ones to date... that means it could be more likely that these young players will actually get a shot at the first team squad - especially at City who now, unlike previously, have a manager with a track record of promoting the academy's best young players.

In any case, the argument of "how many academy players get into X's first team?" is a different argument to "which team produces the best players?".

I'm arguing the second one.
 
TheOrgazoid said:
At other clubs.
Chelsea have, since Abramovich, never been a club that will use youth talent. That doesn't mean that their youth talent isn't better than ours.

City have been too ambitious, in terms of attaining short term success, to risk first team results by using teenagers. That doesn't mean that their youth taren't isn't better than ours.

Then we factor in that the current crops of young players shared between Man City and Chelsea are arguably the best ones to date... that means it could be more likely that these young players will actually get a shot at the first team squad - especially at City who now, unlike previously, have a manager with a track record of promoting the academy's best young players.

In any case, the argument of "how many academy players get into X's first team?" is a different argument to "which team produces the best players?".

I'm arguing the second one.
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I can think of one. Loftus-Cheek. Have I forgotten anyone?

And, to be clear, I'm not talking about players getting into their first team. I'm talking about players getting into any first team. Hence the likes of Joshua King, Cleverley, Drinkwater, Michael Keane, Heaton, Simpson, Fosuh-Mensah, Januzaj etc etc - as well as Rashford, Tuanzebe and Lingard - are making a bit of a mockery of this inferiority complex a lot of people seem to have developed about the quality of player produced by our academy compared to City/Chelsea.
 
BBC just shared a story about John Cofie, a former academy player who was bought for £1m in 2007 and now plays for Derry City!

 
TheOrgazoid said:
Which are the best young players that we have? I will assume that you have watched our academy players lately a lot more than I have (I haven't).
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I'd have O'Connor, Laird, Chong, Gomes, Burkart and Greenwood as the top talents. We've also brought in Puigmal who starts for Spain u17s and rejected Barcelona to join us and Traore who played for France u16s and used to captain PSG but neither have played much for us yet ( Traore hasn't played at all because of injury) Apart from them a lot of the younger lads like Levitt and Garner are developing very well since they've gone into full time training and have made a good impact already this season. Then there's the likes of Barlow who has 7 goals & 3 assists from midfield in 14 appearances and Ercolani who has skipped the u18s and has been one of the best players on the pitch for the u23s in the past 4 or 5 games.
 
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