Well, the penalty...?

kanchelskis14

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..What was everyone's view. Seemed Rooney touched the ball then fell over Almunia if you ask me. The commentators seemed to agree, but were seemingly too scared to say it out right, so instead opted for stuff like 'Almunia invited Rooney to go over' and stuff like that.

What so we think? Clear penalty? Dive? Not sure?
 
It was a clear penalty
 
Ours was absolutely clear cut. Doesn't matter what Rooney was or wasn't doing, Almunia cleaned him out. Stayed on the pitch because Rooney was never scoring from that position

The other one... at first look I thought the ref got it right, Fletcher seemed to get the ball before the player, and it seemed like a fair challenge. On second viewing I see Fletcher did get it, but with his hands, and I reckon we got away with it. Then again they scored soon after anyway so made little odds
 
I think the ref got one right and one wrong.

Rooneys was a definite penalty, Almunia took away his legs.

Fletch however, as Brad says on first viewing I shouted no pen, but on having seen the replay it seemed the contact he made with the ball was with his forearm.

You win some you lose some
 
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Rooney looked for it a bit but was definitely fouled. As in, he made no effort to get out of the way, and in fact actively made sure he did not get out of the way. Almunia obliged and took him down.

It's a grey area but in my mind no different than a player, in open play, putting his body between the ball and the opposition knowing that the opposition's momentum will knock them over, thus winning the free kick.
 
Haven't seen it again but from where I was (North tier 1) I didn't think it was a penalty.
 
JazzG said:
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so what? Viera got sent off once for kicking out at keane and he missed him. The fact is almunia got none of the ball and obstructed rooneys run.
 
Brad said:
Ours was absolutely clear cut. Doesn't matter what Rooney was or wasn't doing, Almunia cleaned him out. Stayed on the pitch because Rooney was never scoring from that position

The other one... at first look I thought the ref got it right, Fletcher seemed to get the ball before the player, and it seemed like a fair challenge. On second viewing I see Fletcher did get it, but with his hands, and I reckon we got away with it. Then again they scored soon after anyway so made little odds
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Exactly this.
 
If Alan Green says it's a clear penalty (which he did), then it's a clear penalty. I've only seen it from the top of the East Stand, but it looked a penalty then :D
 
jgraham said:
I think the ref got one right and one wrong.

Rooneys was a definite penalty, Almunia took away his legs.

Fletch however, as Brad says on first viewing I shouted no pen, but on having seen the replay it seemed the contact he made with the ball was with his forearm.

You win some you lose some
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If you are going on the handball angle, it wasn't intentional so not a penalty.
 
I dont think Rooney dived but in that situation you know that if you get the ball past the keeper any contact and its a pen, all Rooney did was strench as far as he could to try and get something on the ball.
 
Eurotrash said:
Correct decision.
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It would not even be debated if it had been awarded to any other side but us.

Arsenal could well have had a penalty for the Fletcher handball but as it did not seem intentional it could be argued that Dean was correct.
 
Wasn't a penalty in my mind. It would have been a penalty, but Rooney dived, too, negating that in my head.

You can see from the replays (and Jazz's picture further up) - Rooney was going to ground before Almunia even touched him. He dived, and was then fouled as he was already diving. Fact is, if Almunia hadn't touched Rooney, Wayne would still have gone down because he was already going down when the Arsenal 'keeper made contact.
 
Rooney went down before any contact. I expect Name Changed to be here soon calling for a ban.
 
let's scrap pens then because if people are discussing this it blows my mind. These decisions have been given for years and years and years and most people know it's a penalty regardless of anything else.

It's amazing.

Kinda like the officials wanting to give arsenal a chance by playing 5 minutes of stoppage time for no reason...
 
Striker10 said:
let's scrap pens then because if people are discussing this it blows my mind. These decisions have been given for years and years and years and most people know it's a penalty regardless of anything else.

It's amazing.

Kinda like the officials wanting to give arsenal a chance by playing 5 minutes of stoppage time for no reason...
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What are you on about?

Simple, if a player falls over before any contact and a penalty is awarded, it is controversial and is to be discussed. I'm sure you would be a lot more forthcoming in talking about it if it was Gerrard.

It's harmless debate.
 
I'd have thought the savagely heavy touch Rooney made with the ball would indicate he wasn't in full control of things

I don't see why the assumption is he was diving

You'd only really know if he turned round and appealed for a penalty after falling to ground and nobody making contact with him

As it was, Almunia cleaned him out and it's a no brainer of a decision for the ref
 
kanchelskis14 said:
What are you on about?

Simple, if a player falls over before any contact and a penalty is awarded, it is controversial and is to be discussed. I'm sure you would be a lot more forthcoming in talking about it if it was Gerrard.

It's harmless debate.
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mate it ain't controversial. It's always a penalty....

what is controversial about that?

If it was gerrard it'd still be a penalty....if you questioned the fletcher one fine but the rooney one your just opening up a can of worms. Players always get pens in this situation and a lot of people go down just before contact

The question is would he have done that if almunia didn't stick his arms out? We'll never know but it's irrelevent anyway as he did
 
Striker10 said:
mate it ain't controversial. It's always a penalty....

what is controversial about that?

If it was gerrard it'd still be a penalty....if you questioned the fletcher one fine but the rooney one your just opening up a can of worms. Players always get pens in this situation and a lot of people go down just before contact

The question is would he have done that if almunia didn't stick his arms out? We'll never know but it's irrelevent anyway as he did
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Yes, he would. You can see that by the fact that he went down before the contact. If Almunia hadn't stuck his arms out and touched Rooney, Wayne would still have hit the deck because he'd already started to collapse to the ground.
 
Count Duckula said:
Yes, he would. You can see that by the fact that he went down before the contact. If Almunia hadn't stuck his arms out and touched Rooney, Wayne would still have hit the deck because he'd already started to collapse to the ground.
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no offense but you would have to blow up the video/find the best angle and slow it down big time before you came to such a conclusion. Even an inch of movement could imply what someones about to do...
 
Chicken and egg scenario here it seems.

What comes first, the "dive" or the foul?

In my opinion a dive is not a dive until the player hits the deck. Therefore Rooney was fouled before the "dive" was completed. There is not enough evidence to be certain if Rooney would/could have remained on his feet had Almunia not made contact.
 
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