We should stop fooling ourselves...

  • Thread starter Used to be Jip Jaap
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Used to be Jip Jaap

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It's pretty amazing to see all these "if-only-this-or-that-we-would-have-won" posts. Supporting the team is fine but at some stage support turns into blinkered naïvety. Arsenal have been a class above us in the PL (just look at their points-per-game average) and apart from a very impressive QF against Depor I honestly think we were quite fortunate to reach the semis in the CL. We definitely had two easy groups compared with the ones Arse and Poo qualified from.

Our lack of trophies this season is NOT just a blip that'll correct itself automatically next season!

How many truly satisfactory games against top class opposition have we played this season?
I'd be generous and say Leeds (away), Chelsea (away), Depor (home and away), Olympiakos (away), Bayern (away). Some would include Nantes (home) and the home game Boavista but I don't consider these teams top class.
I don't want to make a list of top games in the Treble year but think back and you'd have to admit that there were MANY more of them than this time around.

I'm NOT going to join the "sell-sell-sell... Buy-buy-buy" choir but I think that a business-as-usual approach to next season would be very dangerous.

Tactics: we haven't really defended or attacked as a team this year. Levels of organization HAVE to be raised. If Fergie doesn't bring in a top notch coach (and allow him to influence the team) it'll be a monumental mistake IMO.

Defence: Blanc has been good in most games but United's attack-minded game plan makes it very dangerous to depend on slow defenders. By defending too deeply, team cohesion often suffers.

Midfield: we have a surplus of playmakers (at lest to some extent, Veron, Becks, Keane and Scholes all belong in that category) and a deficit of attacking players with pace who can take on opposition defenders (Giggs!...). Look at, e.g., Arse and Leverkusen.

Attack: Forlan might still prove to be a good buy but I don't think a OGS/RVN/DF strikeforce will be enough for next season. And I think focus should be on getting a player with explosive pace and/or dribbling skills. At times we lack that...

I'll support United right to my grave - but I refuse to say that everything's just fine when it patently isn't.
 
Good post.

Tactics: Agree, playing as a team and good organisation is needed before any new players come in. If we dont have these things new players will only make it worse.

Defence: I dont blame the defence this year. Yeh a few errors by Brown, Silvestre Barthez etc but thats just human. The problem is how we easily get penetrated and I blame the midfield/tactics for not doing the job properly.

Midfield: This is where our problems have come from. Not enough protection for defence and they cant take the game to teams anymore. When we play well its because we've been given the chance and space to do so. We cant make it ourselves. This is why we lose to big teams. If teams take the game to us and dont let us play, we're hopelessly lost. We can only win when teams crumble and let us win.

Attack: We need a Bergkamp/Cantona type player and a Ronaldo/Shevchenko player/ One or both will be good! If only to give us options up front. We have no creativity and we have not much pace.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>Good post.

Tactics: Agree, playing as a team and good organisation is needed before any new players come in. If we dont have these things new players will only make it worse.

Defence: I dont blame the defence this year. Yeh a few errors by Brown, Silvestre Barthez etc but thats just human. The problem is how we easily get penetrated and I blame the midfield/tactics for not doing the job properly.

Midfield: This is where our problems have come from. Not enough protection for defence and they cant take the game to teams anymore. When we play well its because we've been given the chance and space to do so. We cant make it ourselves. This is why we lose to big teams. If teams take the game to us and dont let us play, we're hopelessly lost. We can only win when teams crumble and let us win.

Attack: We need a Bergkamp/Cantona type player and a Ronaldo/Shevchenko player/ One or both will be good! If only to give us options up front. We have no creativity and we have not much pace.</strong><hr></blockquote>

For a team hopelessly lost, we've scored one hell of a lot of goals this season!

Of course the problem is in defence. Go and count how many goals that we have let in and then compare it to our close rivals!
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its a mixture of many factors. Of course the defence needs new blood. no-one can argue that. But the midfield is a factor. How many times have you seen only Keane, or Butt when he's played back on their own trying to help out, whilst Giggs, Veron etc have strolled about further up the pitch.
Also, even though we've scored plenty, if you look at the matches where we've dropped points, and the EC matches, any fool could tell us that we've been bereft of attacking ideas. Another striker wouldnt go amiss to bring us up to the quota of 4 again.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>Good post.

Tactics: Agree, playing as a team and good organisation is needed before any new players come in. If we dont have these things new players will only make it worse.

Defence: I dont blame the defence this year. Yeh a few errors by Brown, Silvestre Barthez etc but thats just human. The problem is how we easily get penetrated and I blame the midfield/tactics for not doing the job properly.

Midfield: This is where our problems have come from. Not enough protection for defence and they cant take the game to teams anymore. When we play well its because we've been given the chance and space to do so. We cant make it ourselves. This is why we lose to big teams. If teams take the game to us and dont let us play, we're hopelessly lost. We can only win when teams crumble and let us win.

Attack: We need a Bergkamp/Cantona type player and a Ronaldo/Shevchenko player/ One or both will be good! If only to give us options up front. We have no creativity and we have not much pace.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree with most of what you say.

In particular, I agree that doing something about the coaching/the tactical set-up is more important than buying truck loads of new players.

Still, adding a 'hanging' striker could prove to be beneficial. I don't think Giggsy is cut out for that job except in case of injuries, etc.
But players like Ronaldo and Shevchenko are too expensive IMO. I rather see us go after, e.g., Cissé.
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Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

For a team hopelessly lost, we've scored one hell of a lot of goals this season!

Of course the problem is in defence. Go and count how many goals that we have let in and then compare it to our close rivals!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nobody says anything about being "hopelessly lost". True, we've scored plenty - but try calculating our goals for/against against top class opposition. That figure should provide food for thought...
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Originally posted by Used to be Jip Jaap:
<strong>

Nobody says anything about being "hopelessly lost". True, we've scored plenty - but try calculating our goals for/against against top class opposition. That figure should provide food for thought...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Excellent point. Can't get away from it.

Tho in most of the top games, we didn't play 4-4-2....
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Absolutely agree your post. May be we have been too successful for too long, some fans think that we have a divine right to occupy the "no.1 team in England" seat forever. But look at Arsenal's performance throughout the season, and remember how many injury/suspension problems they have had (Seaman, Adams, Keown, Ashley Cole, Dixon, Pires, Van Bronhost,...), even United fans must accept that we were overtaken by Arsenal as the best team in England. The league table didn't lie, and it told us that we were below Arsenal and even the scousers. I'm sure our two rivals will continue to strengthen their teams in the summer and they can only become better next season. Therefore, if we stand still and continue dreaming that we only need to make a "click" and then the PL Championship will automatically get back into our pocket, we are death even before the next season begins.
 
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>Absolutely agree your post. May be we have been too successful for too long, some fans think that we have a divine right to occupy the "no.1 team in England" seat forever. But look at Arsenal's performance throughout the season, and remember how many injury/suspension problems they have had (Seaman, Adams, Keown, Ashley Cole, Dixon, Pires, Van Bronhost,...), even United fans must accept that we were overtaken by Arsenal as the best team in England. The league table didn't lie, and it told us that we were below Arsenal and even the scousers. I'm sure our two rivals will continue to strengthen their teams in the summer and they can only become better next season. Therefore, if we stand still and continue dreaming that we only need to make a "click" and then the PL Championship will automatically get back into our pocket, we are death even before the next season begins.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I guess that is the key point. I really, really hope that Fergie realize that a number of past mistakes need to be addressed in time for next season.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong> I'm sure our two rivals will continue to strengthen their teams in the summer and they can only become better next season. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Sometimes strengthening a successful team doesn't always work. ;)
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

Sometimes strengthening a successful team doesn't always work. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>


Fair point. But I suspect that Wenger and, in particular, Houllier won't be spending foolishly - it can't be denied that they know what they're doing. I think the smart money is on both Arse and Pool being at least as good as they've been this term. Both have got young squads and right now they've got their respective houses in significanly better order than we have...
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Originally posted by Used to be Jip Jaap:
<strong>
Midfield: we have a surplus of playmakers (at lest to some extent, Veron, Becks, Keane and Scholes all belong in that category) and a deficit of attacking players with pace who can take on opposition defenders (Giggs!...). Look at, e.g., Arse and Leverkusen.

Attack: Forlan might still prove to be a good buy but I don't think a OGS/RVN/DF strikeforce will be enough for next season. And I think focus should be on getting a player with explosive pace and/or dribbling skills. At times we lack that...

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good points. I think we need more players who are capable of single-handedly breaking down a defence.

I was at the Arsenal/Liverpool matches this year and in both of those matches, it was so frustrating because we just couldn't break them down. Liverpool knew they could frustrate us with their defence, hopefully nick a goal and walk away with a victory. They did exactly that. Arsenal knew that all they had to do was defend, get a draw and win the title. As it turns out, they did a bit better than that, but the point is we never looked like we were going to score.

In those 2 matches, Giggs was the only player really capable of breaking down the defence... and once he was neutralised, we were totally lost for ideas. That's why I think another attacking midfielder with pace would be a great addition to the squad next year as well as a pacey striker who could run at the defence and terrorise the defence a bit. Ruud and Ole are great together. But neither one of them have blinding pace and having a different type of striker would bring something different to our strike force.
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Agree with most of the posts in this thread...
After all these years...the sad truth is our opposition has improved while we dropped...i'm not saying in quality of players...i'm saying the mentality, the desire, the will to win...only keano has that all the time(Ruud and Ole has also this season, one being his first season and wants to do well and the other finally getting a regular first team run also wants to prove himself)...the rest just grew a bit too comfortable with our position after we walked it for a few seasons...we're being too complacent.
AND opposition has us in an encyclopedia...we're becoming predictable...SAF brought Veron in to address this but sadly didnt work although i feel he'll do well next season.Hence we are still predictable in attack...we need some speed/skill/creativity in attack... i've said this so many times i've lost count....we need another player like giggsy...preferably more versatile ala Damien Duff and we need Cantona...well somebody who plays like him anyway.
We just dont quite cut it when up against better opposition.
 
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