WC All Stars Chain Draft Round 1 - Oaencha vs. Prath92/P-nut

idmanager

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Welcome to the WC All Stars chain draft!

Please note that players must be strictly judged on the basis of the performances against the WC they are listed against.

TEAM OAENCHA



TEAM PRATH92/P-NUT



Write up

Harald Schumacher (1982) - A finalist of the 1982 World Cup, he was a top goalkeeper
Hilderaldo Bellini (1958) - A World Cup winner with Brazil, he is one of Brazil’s best central defenders.
Terry Butcher (1990) - One of England’s defensive stars from the 1990 World Cup. He was solid and one of the main reasons for England’s run to the Semi Finals
Victor Andrade (1950) - A top right back for Uruguay in the early 50s adept defensively and helping them to win the World Cup
Roberto Carlos (1998) - A key player in Brazil’s 1998 final run. He was part of the All star team for the cup. A monster attacking
Valery Voronin (1966) - A top class defensive midfielder who was key in Soviet Union’s progress to the World Cup semis in 1966.
Patrick Vieira (2006) - One of the best B2B of the late 90s and early 2000s. A key part of the French final run in 2006. He was part of the World Cup Team of the tournament.
Bastian Schweinsteiger (2010) - Another world class midfielder, the German central midfielder was instrumental to the German successful semi final run in 2010
Ronaldinho (2002) - Known as the magician he was an integral part of the 2002 World Cup win.
Romario (1994) - One of the most prolific strikers of his era, he was top scorer and the best player during the 1994 World Cup when his team won the World Cup.
Jorge Valdano (1986) - Second striker to Diego Maradona’s Argentina in the 1986 World Cup. He scored four goals in the tournament including one in the final.

Tactics

Defence

2 solid CBs marshalling the defence in Bellini and Butcher. Andrade the defence oriented RB and Roberto Carlos with the attacking oriented LB. Valery Voronin solid DM to help out with both schweinsteiger and Vieira pitching in.

Midfield

A very robust midfield but creative at the same time. Voronin will anchor the midfield by sitting in front of the defence. Vieira and schweinsteiger play B2B midfielders. They are hard to be dominated.

Attack

Jorge Valdano to play part of a front two with Romario. Ronaldinho plays in a free role behind them. Roberto Carlos Patrick Vieira and Schweinsteiger to contribute to attack too.
 
Great midfield @prath92 @P-Nut0712 .

Correct me if I'm wrong didn't Voronin play defence that world cup?
 
Fits wise, Andrade as a FB in a diamond is questionable. I don't think he offers much going ahead. Although Dinho can drift wide from time to time, that might not be enough width in general build up.

Especially when you have Voronin there who can drop into defense when the full backs push up, you'd want someone who can own that flank like Carlos can on the other side.
 
idmanager said:
Fits wise, Andrade as a FB in a diamond is questionable. I don't think he offers much going ahead. Although Dinho can drift wide from time to time, that might not be enough width in general build up.

Especially when you have Voronin there who can drop into defense when the full backs push up, you'd want someone who can own that flank like Carlos can on the other side.
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We did that to try to nullify Cruyff through that side. Not going to be fully nullified but Andrade did do a decent job on Zizinho in 1950.

2mufc0 said:
Great midfield @prath92 @P-Nut0712 .

Correct me if I'm wrong didn't Voronin play defence that world cup?
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We initially wanted to play him as a CB but nowhere could I find any record of his actual position being CB in 1966





Watching these two videos, he seem to be playing as a defensive midfielder though he did have a man marking job on Albert in the Hungary game.
 
prath92 said:
We did that to try to nullify Cruyff through that side. Not going to be fully nullified but Andrade did do a decent job on Zizinho in 1950.
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Yea, that is what I assumed. But might be a fairly decent disadvantage build up wise against the teams with narrower formations.
 
Really happy with how the side turned out. Most of the players were there or there abouts for making team of the tournament.

And despite having to tweak the original idea slightly each player fits the profile and tactics nicely of what we were going for.
 
I tried hard to move Cruyff more centrally for Oaencha but couldn't with the players in hand.

Would have been a good talking point if the game was an active one with both managers around.
 
prath92 said:
We initially wanted to play him as a CB but nowhere could I find any record of his actual position being CB in 1966
Watching these two videos, he seem to be playing as a defensive midfielder though he did have a man marking job on Albert in the Hungary game.
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Joga Bonito said:
He played as a CB in 1962 but as a DM in 1966.
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Enigma_87 said:
Really? I thought it was the formation depicting him more or less as a CB, but rather played as an anchor a bit like Varela?
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It was a hybrid role between DM and CB in 1962. He played in midfield in 1966. I think I clarified this some time ago but it's hard to remember where and when it was.

Netto writes that in the first 2 games they played in a 1-4-1-5 scheme, where he was a midfielder and Voronin "had to drop back, participating mostly in defence"

About the game against Chile journalists wrote that "it wasn't evident which formation they used; they wanted to walk away from the WW but failed to adapt it to Brazil's 1958 formation (4-2-4). Voronin played next to Maslyonkin in defence and Netto single-handedly tried to control midfield".
 
I'm really surprised that both Valdano and Careca were picked ahead of Elkjær from that World Cup. Not that they were bad, but... he also works well with pretty much everybody
 
harms said:
I'm really surprised that both Valdano and Careca were picked ahead of Elkjær from that World Cup. Not that they were bad, but... he also works well with pretty much everybody
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Indeed - who better than to forage wide and defend from the front in a diamond?
 
harms said:
I'm really surprised that both Valdano and Careca were picked ahead of Elkjær from that World Cup. Not that they were bad, but... he also works well with pretty much everybody
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Valdano - South American
Careca - South American

Elkjaer - European
Lineker - European

Probably that explains it.
 
idmanager said:
Valdano - South American
Careca - South American

Elkjaer - European
Lineker - European

Probably that explains it.
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Nah, Arbitrum had space for another European and so do P/P. He's also not a World Cup winner, which is a plus compared to Valdano
 
harms said:
I'm really surprised that both Valdano and Careca were picked ahead of Elkjær from that World Cup. Not that they were bad, but... he also works well with pretty much everybody
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I picked Careca because i felt it was easier to sell him working with Pele (brazlian style) and I knew I’d likely be taking European from 94, 98, 2002 and 2006.
 
harms said:
Nah, Arbitrum had space for another European and so do P/P. He's also not a World Cup winner, which is a plus compared to Valdano
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I finished with 6 European players

Neeskens, tardelli, Hagi, lizarazu, Ferdinand, Figo.
 
harms said:
Nah, Arbitrum had space for another European and so do P/P. He's also not a World Cup winner, which is a plus compared to Valdano
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Tbh for us it was between Valdano and Lineker. Valdano scoring in the final was a bit in his favour. And we have only 4 winners so it wasn’t particularly a problem in that regard too
 
Prath92/Pnut have a fine team and no big weakness. I just find the formation a bit uninspiring. Why do you need 3 players in central midfield who are all very strong defensively? 3 players to bully Ceulemans off the park? You risk to make him cry at this rate:lol:

With a proper right winger, you could have build a very nice 4-2-4 to shatter everything going forward and the midfielders and defenders are easily good enough to hold their own against any offense, in this round at least. It would also solve the problem on the right side of the pitch, which is totally wasted in this formation.

There has been some time since I saw a great 4-2-4. Not a 4-4-2 with hard working wingers to help an outnumbered midfield, those formations are often stifled creatively in offense and rely on crosses very much. Just a proper gung-ho 4-2-4 with the aim to simply crush any team in front of them.:drool:
 
Gio said:
Like the midfield trio @P-Nut0712 @prath92 - nothing will get through that lot.
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Cheers, it's my usual high energy midfield I try to build, just this time it's more balanced by having two players who are both 2 way players more than excelling in one and just being competent in the other.

idmanager said:
I tried hard to move Cruyff more centrally for Oaencha but couldn't with the players in hand.

Would have been a good talking point if the game was an active one with both managers around.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a shame that he had to forfeit would have been a real interesting game.

I actually feel we had good ideas across the board for nullifying Cruyff. In the middle he'd be against an excellent physical midfield that would hopefully limit his effect on the game.
 
Don Alfredo said:
Prath92/Pnut have a fine team and no big weakness. I just find the formation a bit uninspiring. Why do you need 3 players in central midfield who are all very strong defensively? 3 players to bully Ceulemans off the park? You risk to make him cry at this rate:lol:

With a proper right winger, you could have build a very nice 4-2-4 to shatter everything going forward and the midfielders and defenders are easily good enough to hold their own against any offense, in this round at least. It would also solve the problem on the right side of the pitch, which is totally wasted in this formation.

There has been some time since I saw a great 4-2-4. Not a 4-4-2 with hard working wingers to help an outnumbered midfield, those formations are often stifled creatively in offense and rely on crosses very much. Just a proper gung-ho 4-2-4 with the aim to simply crush any team in front of them.:drool:
Click to expand...

Yeah we changed the system a few times,but a 424 could definitely have worked given the players we had at our disposal and just changing a pick or 2. Hopefully next round we can change the formation up a bit instead of just taking like for like replacements.
 
harms said:
It was a hybrid role between DM and CB in 1962. He played in midfield in 1966. I think I clarified this some time ago but it's hard to remember where and when it was.

Netto writes that in the first 2 games they played in a 1-4-1-5 scheme, where he was a midfielder and Voronin "had to drop back, participating mostly in defence"

About the game against Chile journalists wrote that "it wasn't evident which formation they used; they wanted to walk away from the WW but failed to adapt it to Brazil's 1958 formation (4-2-4). Voronin played next to Maslyonkin in defence and Netto single-handedly tried to control midfield".
Click to expand...
Cheers. Thought the same as well.
harms said:
I'm really surprised that both Valdano and Careca were picked ahead of Elkjær from that World Cup. Not that they were bad, but... he also works well with pretty much everybody
Click to expand...
Who do you reckon had better WC - Elkjær or Careca? For me the latter tbh.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Where are the voting options btw?
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As Prath92 said Oeancha has pulled out due to personal reasons. Still wouldn't mind have minded a poll to see how the voting would have looked.

I understand it's hard for people to comment with only one side present, but would have been nice to have some feedback in areas. Should have asked someone to step in and argue on behalf of Oeancha
 
prath92 said:
Oaencha has pulled out of the draft due to some personal issues.
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P-Nut0712 said:
As Prath92 said Oeancha has pulled out due to personal reasons. Still wouldn't mind have minded a poll to see how the voting would have looked.

I understand it's hard for people to comment with only one side present, but would have been nice to have some feedback in areas. Should have asked someone to step in and argue on behalf of Oeancha
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Ah, didn't really know that.

As per comments on your team, I'd like to see more attacking RB on that side instead of Andrade, especially since you guys are playing diamond. Apart from that - great midfield and solid backline.

I'd also move Romario up top instead of Valdano and go with another SS in the Bebeto mold - or of course higher quality one.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Who do you reckon had better WC - Elkjær or Careca? For me the latter tbh.
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Yes for me. Equal on the goals but I rate Elkjær's all-round game and workrate better, plus the game against a very strong Uruguay team is one of the best that I've seen from a striker in World Cups. It's not a coincidence that he'd got the Bronze Ball despite the fact that his team was eliminated in the first round.
 
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