WC All Stars Chain Draft Round 1 - Cal? vs. Moby

[Invictus]

Welcome to the WC All Stars chain draft!

Please note that players must be strictly judged on the basis of the performances against the WC they are listed against.

Team Cal?.......................................................................................Team Moby

Team Cal? Tactics

Sub: J Kilnsmann (90)

Formation 4-2-3-1, I know most of the Caf has taken dislike to the formation this season, but it's a very effective formation with the right players.

Zoff, one of the great keppers of the last century, is the last line of defence, with Ancheta, who was a tough tackling defender partnering with the guile of Blanc. Both fullbacks are Brazilian stars who are capable to both attacking and defending and will provide width to the team.

Xavi will dictate the tempo of the game and his understanding with Messi will be key to my side dominating possession as well as creating chances. Ballack was one of the best midfielders in the world at the time and who knows what could have happened if he didn't get suspended in the final?

Cristiano Ronaldo and Schifo will provide the width as well as goal threat from either side. Hurst, the only player to ever score a WC final hat-trick. Surely he's not going to Higauin all the chances Messi will create?

Now onto my opponents, I've no idea how he's going to fit all his strikers onto the same team. But with a complete lack of defenders, I assume Hong Myung Bo will play, whilst he'll go on to become one of the best Asian players ever, his 1990 WC record read, play 3, lost 3. Redondo is very much a Caf favourite in these drafts, Argentina sneaked into the last 16 from 3rd place behind Nigeria and Bulgaria and was knocked out by Romania. As for Chumpitaz, Peru conceeded 9 goals in 4 games in the WC.



Team Moby Tactics

Neri Pumpido - Keeper - Standard
Djalma Santos - Right Back - Balanced
Hong Myung-Bo - Sweeper - Covering
Hector Chumpitaz - Stopper - Marker
Arie Haan - DM - Holding Midfielder
Willem van Hanegem - CM - Creative Workhorse Midfielder
Zinedine Zidane - AM - Primary Playmaker
Ferenc Puskas - Left Wing-Forward - Roaming Forward
Uwe Seeler - Right Wing-Forward - Roaming Forward
Just Fontaine - Centre Forward - Poacher


Why we will win:

- Swashbuckling attacking trio spearheaded by one of the greatest striker performances scoring a massive THIRTEEN GOALS in one WC.
- Two devastating forwarding exploiting the wide channels and providing immense creative and scoring ability.
- One of the greatest #10 performances in Zidane in 2006 who absolutely dominated midfields and took the game by the scruff of the neck. With the kind of attack in front of him here he will absolutely thrive and provide a match winning performances.
- The wonderful Dutch duo in midfield, van Hanegem was a keystone in the Dutch Domination of 1974, while Haan was his silent yet invaluable partner plugging the hole without taking anything away from the ability on the ball. Both reached the finals in respective tournies.
- Two defensive stalwarts as fullbacks in Djalma and Briegel, physically dominating with quality tactical awareness and the stamina required to support the attack when required.
- A very complimentary CB duo of the greatest Asian player of all time and the best player when Korea reached the semis in 2002 in Myung-Bo and partnering him is Captain America and Peru's defensive champion, Chumpitaz.

 

[Invictus]

Good luck @Cal? @Moby

 

[Moby]

Good luck @Cal? @Moby

Thanks mate.

 

[Cal?]

Good luck @Cal? @Moby

Thanks

 

[Gio]

Ballack can certainly do the deeper role, and is a great pick for what he did in 2002, but was more in his element bombing forward.

 

[Moby]

@Moby



You only had 1 break and used to to jump from Zidane to Puskas.

Your Hong Myung Bo was the 1990 edition who LOST ALL 3 GAMES!!!

You can play a player in a different edition than what he was picked for as long as you don't have another player in that WC.

So this is the legendary 2002 performance.

 

[Cal?]

You can play a player in a different edition than what he was picked for as long as you don't have another player in that WC.

So this is the legendary 2002 performance.

According to whom?

 

[Moby]

According to whom?

Read the OP.

- Even if one picks Player A for a particular year during picking round, the pick year can be changed subsequently at any time during the draft as long as the restriction rules around playing 11 are followed.

 

[Cal?]

Read the OP.

As you were then...

 

[Cal?]

You can play a player in a different edition than what he was picked for as long as you don't have another player in that WC.

So this is the legendary 2002 performance.

By legendary 2002, you mean the one which involved 2 games that features prominently on the "Most controversial decisions in the World Cup" thread?

 

[Moby]

By legendary 2002, you mean the one which involved 2 games that features prominently on the "Most controversial decisions in the World Cup" thread?

As were a lot of WCs especially pre war and Germany 54 which were marked with controversy. We have to judge players on their performances, much as I hate Korea knocking out Italy and Spain in that WC, for a defender to finish with the Bronze Ball in a WC is a great achievement and no doubt that Myung-Bo performed brilliantly even outside those dubious calls. And he fits my defense really well.

 

[idmanager]

Good job starting the game with shouting.
Not a bad idea to get 2006 Zidane sent off soon.

 

[Cal?]

Good job starting the game with shouting.
Not a bad idea to get 2006 Zidane sent off soon.

Good point, and Ballack was certainly good enough at the dark arts to try to get Zidane sent off.

 

[harms]

Moby's team intrigued me the most after the drafting stage but I don't like it at all

Edit: perhaps not "at all", but not as much as I like the set of individuals that he picked

 

[Cal?]

Personally I think his formation leaves his midfield completely exposed and overrun. Add the fact that his CBs are not exactly that good, I can't see my team fail to score a few.

 

[Gio]

Personally I think his formation leaves his midfield completely exposed and overrun. Add the fact that his CBs are not exactly that good, I can't see my team fail to score a few.

To be fair I was going to go large on your midfield looking a bit top-heavy, but Moby's front four leaves his midfield duo with a lot of work as well.

 

[Cal?]

To be fair I was going to go large on your midfield looking a bit top-heavy, but Moby's front four leaves his midfield duo with a lot of work as well.

Ballack was an all action star at the WC and is well capable of providing the cover needed for Xavi to dictate play from midfield.

Young Ronaldo played much deep than he does nowadays and can get stuck in when needed.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

To be fair I was going to go large on your midfield looking a bit top-heavy, but Moby's front four leaves his midfield duo with a lot of work as well.

Seeler is probably the most hardworking player on the pitch.....

 

[idmanager]

Both teams IMO are short of 1 midfielder.

Moby's would look much more better suited to the players in a diamond. Probably Seeler out and a midfielder in with Puskas and Fontaine up top.

Cal's I think doesn't work to the strengths of the first two picks, Xavi and Messi. Can't see either playing their natural game here.
Maybe Messi on the right and CR on the left with Xavi having Ballack and a DM alongside him would have been a better way to go.

Went for Moby in the end as I can see some defensive shield from the midfield and a good defensive FB pair to take care of Scifo and CR.

 

[Gio]

Seeler is probably the most hardworking player on the pitch.....

It's more the other side - that collective area on the left between Puskas, a 34-year-old Zidane and the heavyweight Van Hanegem. Can see Jorginho (who was superb in '94) having a great game running up and down that flank all day, hooking up Alves-style with Xavi.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

It's more the other side - that collective area on the left between Puskas, a 34-year-old Zidane and the heavyweight Van Hanegem. Can see Jorginho (who was superb in '94) having a great game running up and down that flank all day, hooking up Alves-style with Xavi.

yeah its a bit light but IMO cal team is a complete mess with players that dont fit with each other so dont think its going to be a big deal in this game.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Ballack and Xavi in a midfield 2 looks odd to me.

 

[Cal?]

yeah its a bit light but IMO cal team is a complete mess with players that dont fit with each other so dont think its going to be a big deal in this game.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Seeler is probably the most hardworking player on the pitch.....

Yeah, I didn't really get why Moby picked Seeler relatively early as he wasn't prolific in 1966, but he's actually a very nice fit as a supplemntary goal threat and a tireless worker and forager down the right wing. Like a really souped-up Dirk Kuyt, which is genuinely meant as a compliment

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Care to elaborate?

sure
As plenty already mentioned, i dont see a midfield of Ballack and Xavi working. Yes Xavi doesnt need tiki taka and can play in a more direct system but he needs a different type of player next to him, someone that is good on the ball but in the same time had that selflessness about him(like Senna had) and Ballack isnt that player.

Its like you just went for good players not paying attention to team tactics and what your team needs. If you have Messi and Xavi in your team then its a no brainer to surround him with players suited to a possession style of play yet they end up with Ballack, Hurst and young Ronaldo even though i could actually see Ronaldo being decent(no more then that) in a well balanced team with Messi and Xavi in it but Ballack and Hurst are terrible fits. Not to mention the formation that doesnt help neither Messi nor Xavi. Put Messi on the right wing where he played that WC and have a midfield three of Enzo, Xavi + intelligent DM, replace Hurst with a different type of striker(Klinsmann is not a bad fit) and you get a decent team.

 

[harms]

Djalma from 1962 is not a good fit at all — already past his best physically (which was very evident against Gento, for example), plus he hardly crossed the middle of the pitch since Garrincha was in God-mode that didn't include any potential overlaps. With the right type of fullback behind him Seeler would've been a good fit here, but as it stands I don't see it at all.

And I'm not a fan of Hong Myung-Bo, that Korean side wasn't remotely as good as their final place and I'm sure that there was a lot of politics involved in him getting the Bronze Ball (as we've seen with Korean team winning over Italy and Spain). He'll do for the first round, I guess, but not further.

Cal's team is a strange one though, I agree with @Šjor Bepo

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Djalma from 1962 is not a good fit at all — already past his best physically (which was very evident against Gento, for example), plus he hardly crossed the middle of the pitch since Garrincha was in God-mode that didn't include any potential overlaps. With the right type of fullback behind him Seeler would've been a good fit here, but as it stands I don't see it at all.

And I'm not a fan of Hong Myung-Bo, that Korean side wasn't remotely as good as their final place and I'm sure that there was a lot of politics involved in him getting the Bronze Ball (as we've seen with Korean team winning over Italy and Spain). He'll do for the first round, I guess, but not further.

Cal's team is a strange one though, I agree with @Šjor Bepo

That Cup was more devoid of top teams or world class club players than most Cups IMO. I mean look at that Germany team that made the final, after Kahn its players like Frings, Haman, Metzelder. One of the weakest Germany teams in history I'd say. And I wouldn't really say some of the other teams were any better than SKorea that year like the USA or Turkey (although I remember Turkey playing great as a team that tourney they didn't really have any world class stars).

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Not really sure of Moby's attacking trio, Zidane, Puskas, Seeler don't really offer any width to speak off. Cal's attack is much more cohesive, but then Xavi/Ballack is sub-optimal.

 

[Gio]

That Cup was more devoid of top teams or world class club players than most Cups IMO. I mean look at that Germany team that made the final, after Kahn its players like Frings, Haman, Metzelder. One of the weakest Germany teams in history I'd say. And I wouldn't really say some of the other teams were any better than SKorea that year like the USA or Turkey (although I remember Turkey playing great as a team that tourney they didn't really have any world class stars).

Yeah. Although I think there was a lot of quality there, it was just mostly jaded after a long club season, with double group stages in the Champions League, that finished only a fortnight before the World Cup begun. Before it started I thought it was going to be an epic given how strong Argentina and France looked, with Spain and Portugal not far behind. Ultimately though France were old, Argentina didn't get their tactics right, Spain and Italy got cheated and Portugal looked knackered.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Djalma from 1962 is not a good fit at all — already past his best physically (which was very evident against Gento, for example), plus he hardly crossed the middle of the pitch since Garrincha was in God-mode that didn't include any potential overlaps. With the right type of fullback behind him Seeler would've been a good fit here, but as it stands I don't see it at all.

Good point. Brazil had the 9th best defence in that tournament too.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Yeah. Although I think there was a lot of quality there, it was just mostly jaded after a long club season, with double group stages in the Champions League, that finished only a fortnight before the World Cup begun. Before it started I thought it was going to be an epic given how strong Argentina and France looked, with Spain and Portugal not far behind. Ultimately though France were old, Argentina didn't get their tactics right, Spain and Italy got cheated and Portugal looked knackered.

Yeah, that's fair about the club season.
I think its interesting how perception can change in hindsight though. You mention Spain. I remember back in 2002 they weren't a side I considered as serious contenders. I remember a friend and I back then thought of Mexico and Spain as very similar - countries with some world class players but never a threat to win anything because they always lacked a top mentality and would lose in the R16 or QF every time. I think the group I was watching with even all thought South Korea would win that match. Something about that 80s-2006 Spanish sides was never all that convincing. It always just felt they would lose the first important match they played if that makes sense.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Yeah, that's fair about the club season.
I think its interesting how perception can change in hindsight though. You mention Spain. I remember back in 2002 they weren't a side I considered as serious contenders. I remember a friend and I back then thought of Mexico and Spain as very similar - countries with some world class players but never a threat to win anything because they always lacked a top mentality and would lose in the R16 or QF every time. I think the group I was watching with even all thought South Korea would win that match. Something about that 80s-2006 Spanish sides was never all that convincing. It always just felt they would lose the first important match they played if that makes sense.

Aye, Spain were infamous underachievers really. Even in 2002 Ireland gave them a torrid time before losing on penalties, and that was without Roy Keane of course after Saipan.

 

[Don Alfredo]

At first glance, Cal's team looks underwhelming because of the lack of defensive protection in midfield. This has been widely criticized already and of course the midfield composition could have been better (Ballack is very dominant and clashes in style with Messi a bit). After I thought about that midfield, it reminded me very much of modern day Germany.

vs Spain in march 18'

Ter Stegen
Kimmich Boateng Hummels Hector
Khedira Kroos
Muller Ozil Draxler
Werner

Kroos is very alike to Xavi in terms of skill set, physicality and positioning. In 2010, Xavi's work rate was higher than everything Kroos ever produced because let's face it, he is one lazy fecker.

Khedira is no Ballack quality wise, but is quite similar in many aspects (vertical runs, physicality, heading ability, leadership, pace). He can score goals too, having scored 9 in 26 for Juventus in Serie A this season.

Messi and Ozil is definitely a far fetched comparison, but I believe their defensive contribution can be compared to a reasonable amount. They help to press when the team loses the ball in high positions, but rarely track runners down the field and fail to get stuck in against physically and technically imposing midfields.

So I have established why I believe the defensive structure of the two midfields can be compared and now I want to come back to the match I got the Germany line-up from. Germany vs Spain in march was only a friendly, but still one of the best matches I saw in this decade in terms of playing style and tactics. Spain showed up with an All-Star-5-man-midfield featuring Iniesta, David Silva, Isco, Koke and Thiago. You would think Germany's midfield would get overrun easily based on the assumptions made above and Spain was going very strong indeed, but Germany more than held their own and were a very even opponent.

I hope it became clear why I made this connection and this wild excursion to another match featuring 22 players not on the pitch today. I now believe Cal's midfield can work well enough to provide a winning platform for him and I also like other parts of his team. Blanc is one of the best defenders in a world cup draft and the fullbacks are both very good and fit the wingers in front of them really well.

Plus, this is one rare instance where I believe Ronaldo and Messi could work nicely together. Ronaldo was still youthful and energetic, taking players on and showing off his skills besides a wide variance of runs to goal scoring positions. This reminds me of the Messi-Neymar combo where Messi used his dribbling to draw players out of position, only for Neymar to run in behind, getting a chip ball from Messi and finish the move with ease. In other cases, Neymar would beat several players on his side, hugging the touchline and playing the ball back to the edge of the box where Messi could finish with his favorite left foot.

In regards to Moby's team, I don't have much to say that hasn't been said already. Zidane 2006 was majestic and the defense looks solid enough to me. The wide forwards however, are where I am not totally convinced. Puskas was totally not as his best in the 54 world cup because of an injury, still scored in every match he played. Insane if you think about it because what could have been had he been totally fit? Hungary without him scored 4 against Brazil with Djalma and Nilton in it
It is no problem having him there and his performances were still very good, but not at the GOAT level he delivered at other points of his career.

Uwe Seeler is practically two players rolled into one but right sided forward does not fit the description to the tea, especially if you take into account Djalma and Haan offering little support going forward on his side.

This has taken much longer than I expected and I am still undecided I wait to see some more arguments in the match thread before voting

 

[Cal?]

So most people think Xavi - Ballack doesn't work...

Ballack in 2002 was one of the most complete midfielders at the time and well capable of being a DM partner or performing the Busquets role in the Barca midfield.

Also do you guy seriously think that defence of Moby's work?

 

[idmanager]

At first glance, Cal's team looks underwhelming because of the lack of defensive protection in midfield. This has been widely criticized already and of course the midfield composition could have been better (Ballack is very dominant and clashes in style with Messi a bit). After I thought about that midfield, it reminded me very much of modern day Germany.

vs Spain in march 18'

Ter Stegen
Kimmich Boateng Hummels Hector
Khedira Kroos
Muller Ozil Draxler
Werner

Kroos is very alike to Xavi in terms of skill set, physicality and positioning. In 2010, Xavi's work rate was higher than everything Kroos ever produced because let's face it, he is one lazy fecker.

Khedira is no Ballack quality wise, but is quite similar in many aspects (vertical runs, physicality, heading ability, leadership, pace). He can score goals too, having scored 9 in 26 for Juventus in Serie A this season.

Messi and Ozil is definitely a far fetched comparison, but I believe their defensive contribution can be compared to a reasonable amount. They help to press when the team loses the ball in high positions, but rarely track runners down the field and fail to get stuck in against physically and technically imposing midfields.

So I have established why I believe the defensive structure of the two midfields can be compared and now I want to come back to the match I got the Germany line-up from. Germany vs Spain in march was only a friendly, but still one of the best matches I saw in this decade in terms of playing style and tactics. Spain showed up with an All-Star-5-man-midfield featuring Iniesta, David Silva, Isco, Koke and Thiago. You would think Germany's midfield would get overrun easily based on the assumptions made above and Spain was going very strong indeed, but Germany more than held their own and were a very even opponent.

That is a really nice insight. I agree its workable, more so after reading your post. But in an all time context, that just might not be enough. It looks a close match to be fair (votes aside).

 

[Tuppet]

This has been the hardest game to vote on for me so far and I've already changed my vote a couple of times.

On Moby's team I am not sure how to rate Puskas performance in 1954, as their was only one meaningful game he played which was the final. I think he was picked too soon here. Seeler also was not that great in 66, defense is not that great as well, Chumpitaz doesn't seem to have great credentials in world cup.

Zidane + Fontaine however is a sensational combination in this draft. Much better than anything Cal's team can throw on the opposition. I think the best Cal can hope for here is a goal less draw. A better striker and Cal would take it IMO, but as it stands I'll give it to Moby.

 

[harms]

Seeler also was not that great in 66

He was great, not Müller or Ronaldo great, but more than good enough. The only problem is that his play was built around Haller/Beckenbauer's runs from the deep — and that's why they've scored so many (Haller 6, Beckenbauer 4). But Moby doesn't have anyone like that — Zidane was a completely different player and neither Haan nor van Hanegem will make those runs.

 

[Cal?]

This has been the hardest game to vote on for me so far and I've already changed my vote a couple of times.

On Moby's team I am not sure how to rate Puskas performance in 1954, as their was only one meaningful game he played which was the final. I think he was picked too soon here. Seeler also was not that great in 66, defense is not that great as well, Chumpitaz doesn't seem to have great credentials in world cup.

Zidane + Fontaine however is a sensational combination in this draft. Much better than anything Cal's team can throw on the opposition. I think the best Cal can hope for here is a goal less draw. A better striker and Cal would take it IMO, but as it stands I'll give it to Moby.

Seriously? Haven’t half the Caf been saying how great Messi was in 2014 and it was all Higuain being incompetent?

Now I have the only man who ever scored a WC final hat trick and somehow that still doesn’t work?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Seeler also was not that great in 66, defense is not that great as well, Chumpitaz doesn't seem to have great credentials in world cup.

Watched all germany games from 66' fairly recently and Seeler was germans best player behind Beckenbauer. Its a funny era that, when someone is great he is so much better then others, tbh i feel sorry for Kaiser that he had to play with those guys rather then in a fairly modern era where he could combine with others for the whole game rather then 2 occasions per game where the dumb feckers didnt ignore him and went in a solo crusade like Don Quixote. Seeler was the only one that matched him in football IQ and thats why they had a such a lovely partnership.

 

[Cal?]

Congrats @Moby