WC All Stars Chain Draft QF: Moby vs Harms

With players at indicated WC peaks, who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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VS
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............................................. TEAM MOBY ........................................................................................... TEAM HARMS .............................................



TEAM MOBY:

Neri Pumpido - Keeper - Standard
Djalma Santos - Right Back - Balanced
Franz Beckenbauer- Sweeper - Covering
Guiseppe Bergomi - Stopper - Marker
Hans Peter Briegel - Left Back - Balanced
Arie Haan - DM - Holding Midfielder
Fernando Redondo - CM - Creative Workhorse Midfielder
Zinedine Zidane - AM - Primary Playmaker
Ferenc Puskas - Left Wing-Forward - Roaming Forward
Uwe Seeler - Right Wing-Forward - Roaming Forward
Just Fontaine - Centre Forward - Poacher

Why we will win:

- Swashbuckling attacking trio spearheaded by one of the greatest striker performances scoring a massive THIRTEEN GOALS in one WC.
- Two devastating forwarding exploiting the wide channels and providing immense creative and scoring ability.
- One of the greatest #10 performances in Zidane in 2006 who absolutely dominated midfields and took the game by the scruff of the neck. With the kind of attack in front of him here he will absolutely thrive and provide a match winning performances.
- Absolute brick wall of a defense led by a world cup legend in Beckenbauer with one of the best stoppers ever in Bergomi next to him.
- The wonderful Dutch holding midfielder Arie Haan who reached the final both in 74 and 78 providing the shield and versatility in midfield and can seamlessly slot in defense when Beckenbauer rampages forward. Partnering him is the Argie genius in Redondo, smack in the middle of his career prime and a very respectable show in USA especially going forward with the ball. He will form an exceptionally creative midfield with Zidane in terms of ball retention and chance creation.
- Two defensive stalwarts as fullbacks in Djalma and Briegel, physically dominating with quality tactical awareness and the stamina required to support the attack when required.


TEAM HARMS:


TACTICAL INSTRUCTIONS

Lads, it's Moby!

I think it's a pretty straightforward 4-2-3-1. Conti will be a more orthodox winger, Kempes — a free-roaming left wing forward. Nilton Santos will be slightly more attacking than Amoros (covered by Figueroa and Zito). Veron is a deep-lying playmaker with a #10 in front of him — just like he played with Ortega in 1998 and Zito is the most defensive out of midfield three — again, a natural role for him. If you have any questions — just ask.

WHY I'LL WIN

I think I have better players (especially in defence) and a system that suits all my players. Will comment on Moby's team in the thread, but a few discussion points from the start:

- I'm sure that all my players were victorious when they've met Moby's players in relevant World Cups (say, Cannavaro won the final against Zidane in 2006, Conti won the final against Briegel in 1982, Kempes won the final against Haan in 1978 etc.)
- Conti - Briegel. Briegel in the World Cups is a strange one — he reached 2 finals and was directly responsible for the penalty in 1982 (it was actually Conti that he fouled) and for Argentina's winning goal in 1986
- Djalma Santos will be probably responsible for the while right wing — and even at his physical peak he wasn't someone who would dominate all the wing on his own, and here Moby will use the 1962 version of him, when he was already past his physical best (still a great defender, but he was found out against the likes of Gento)
- If Moby starts a 1966 version of Beckenbauer in midfield, this quote will be relevant:

BECKENBAUER said:
England beat us in 1966 because Bobby Charlton was just a bit better than me

- Regardless of who starts in defence for Moby (if it won't be a pairing of Beckenbauer and Bergomi, which is unlikely), Müller will have a field day — he scored 3 past Chumpitaz-led Peru in 1970 and Hong Myung-Bo is simply not good enough to stop the little German


PLAYER PROFILES

Gerd Müller — 1970 World Cup

Team accomplishment: 3rd place
Individual accomplishments: Golden Boot, Bronze Ball, Ballon d’Or and Team of the Tournament
Summary: 10 goals and 3 assists in — a historic performance by the German striker, arguably the greatest by any #9 in World Cup’s history. And while Pele’s key role in Brazil’s World Cup winning side (that is widely recognised as the best team in history) saw him winning the Golden Ball of 1970 tournament ahead of Gerd Müller, he later received Ballon d’Or as the best player in Europe.
Highlight: Gerd Müller was always known for his goals in big games, and this World Cup wasn’t any different. In the semi-final against vintage catenaccio Italy, that will go down in history as the «Game of the Century», he scored 2 goals — which, incredibly, wasn’t enough to secure Germany’s place in the final.



Mario Kempes — 1978 World Cup

Team accomplishment: Winners
Individual accomplishments: Golden Boot, Golden Ball, South American Footballer of the Year and Team of the Tournament
Summary: When France Football decided to have a revaluation of old Ballon d’Ors (those that had not included players from outside of Europe yet), unsurprisingly Kempes topped the list of 1978 — and there were no questions on who was the best player in the world at that time. With 6 goals Kempes won the Golden Boot but more importantly, he won the first World Cup for Argentina.
Highlight: Strong, skilful, fast and blessed with a fearsome shot, he impressed during Argentina’s run to the final, where he seized the moment by scoring twice as Holland were beaten 3:1 after extra-time.



Bobby Charlton — 1966 World Cup

Team accomplishment: Winners
Individual accomplishments: Golden Ball, Ballon D’Or, Team of the Tournament and FIFA World Cup All-Time Team
Summary: Not yet a Sir, in 1966 Bobby Charlton led England to their first and only World Cup win, securing his legacy as England’s best ever player. He proved to be the linchpin of the «Wingless Wanders» — and he wasn’t just a goalscorer, as Alf Ramsey noticed, but he also could do his share of hard work.
Highlight: Charlton’s brace against Eusebio’s Portugal in the semi-final, which turned out to be his best game for England. In the final he was tightly marked by Germany’s best player, young Franz Beckenbauer. As he will say later:




Bruno Conti — 1982 World Cup

Team accomplishment: Winners
Individual accomplishments: Ballon d’Or — 5th place
Summary: For some ridiculous reason Conti wasn’t included in the official Team of the Tournament, but his performance was nevertheless legendary. Pele named him his MVP of the tournament, Jonathan Wilson has him as a 2nd best player after Paolo Rossi, euphoric fans nicknamed him MaraZico and Zico himself, reflecting on (in)famous Brazil’s 3-2 defeat to Italy commented that «we were playing against 10 Italians and one of ours». Rossi may have fired the gun, but it was Conti giving him the bullets.
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Highlight: After Graziani’s injury in the final he sagely adapted to a more central role and had key parts to play in Italy’s second and third goals, also winning a penalty against Hans-Peter Briegel (that Cabrini missed).



Zito — 1962 World Cup

Team accomplishment: Winners
Individual accomplishments: Team of the Tournament
Summary: Zito played key part in Brazil’s back to back World Cup titles in 1958 and 1962, providing much needed balance for their flamboyant attack. It can be argued that Zito and Zagallo were more crucial to the team’s overall balance than their more talented partners like Garrincha, Didi, Pele etc. — and it’s pretty much impossible to find a defensive midfielder with a better World Cup pedigree than Zito. He was also a leader and a father-like figure for Pele, with whom he played not only for the national team, but also for Santos.
Highlight: unexpectedly Zito scored the winning goal in the 1962 final, starting the combination with a clever interception and finishing it with a header on the far post.



Juan Sebastian Veron — 1998 World Cup

Team accomplishment: QF
Individual accomplishments: World Soccer’s Team of the Tournament, FIFA Team of the Tournament — reserve
Summary: Young Argentinian showed his outstanding talent that tournament — together with Simeone and Ortega as a #10 they dominated the group stages and outplayed both England and Netherlands in 1/8 and quarter-finals respectively. But somewhat erratic finishing by Lopez and Batistuta proved costly when Frank de Boer’s crossfield pass found Bergkamp at the right side of the box… and the rest is history. Veron still managed to get an assist in both play-off games, even though he should’ve had more.
Highlight: While I think that he played better against Netherlands, his assist against England was the one for the books — instead of taking a shot from a free kick he found unmarked Zanetti in the opponent’s box and passed it to him… as you all know, Zanetti didn’t disappoint.



Nilton Santos — 1958 World Cup

Team accomplishment: Winners
Individual accomplishments: Team of the Tournament
Summary: Widely regarded as one of the best fullbacks in history of the game (he was included in the World Team of the 20th Century), Nilton Santos won 2 World Cup with Brazil. At 1958 he was at his best — a masterful defender, nicknamed «The Encyclopedia», he was world class both at defending and attacking and possessed very good technique.
Highlight: Nílton was a key player in Brazil’s defence during 3 World Cups and his most memorable moment came in 1958, in a game against Austria. Dribbling his way through the whole field, he finished with a superb shot, driving his coach Vicente Feola crazy (he kept on insisting for Nílton to retreat to the defensive field, but was ignored until the goal was scored).



Elías Figueroa — 1974 World Cup

Team accomplishment: Group stage
Individual accomplishments: Team of the Tournament, South American Footballer of the Year, Best Defender of the Tournament (according to fifa.com)
Summary: Elías Figueroa may have been unlucky to play for an international side that never competed for any major honours, but in 1974 World Cup he proved his highest individual level — at Germany 1974, he was hailed as the competition’s best defender and named alongside Franz Beckenbauer at centre-back in the tournament's Best XI. He is the best South American defender in history, and at 1974 he was at his absolute best — from 1974 to 1976 he was named South American Footballer of the Year 3 consecutive times (following no other than Pele himself), a record matched only by Zico and Tevez, and an incredible achievement for a defender.
Highlight: In a rather short tournament (Chile hadn’t progressed to the play offs), he produced a performance of the highest quality, completely marking no other than Gerd Müller out of the game (West Germany won 1:0 — Breitner scored an absolute screamer, but Figueroa was faultless).



Fabio Cannavaro — 2006 World Cup

Team accomplishment: Winners
Individual accomplishments: Silver Ball, Ballon d’Or, World Player of the Year and Team of the Tournament
Summary: In 7 games of 2006 World Cup Italy conceded just 2 goals — an own goal and a penalty. Fabio Cannavaro produced an all-time great performance, playing each minute of every match, marshalling Italian defence and earning himself a nickname «The Wall of Berlin». No point in expanding the write up as I’m sure that all of you have seen that World Cup live.
Highlight: His tournament was so good that it’s impossible to pick just one moment — I guess it will have to be him lifting the World Cup trophy in Berlin.



Manuel Amoros — 1986 World Cup

Team accomplishment: 3rd place
Individual accomplishments: French Player of the Year, Team of the Tournament, Ballon d’Or — 4th place
Summary: A less glamorous name than Cafu or Djalma, but such an outstanding defender. He was the best defender of the tournament (and 7th best player of the tournament according to the Golden Ball vote) — mostly playing on the right but sometimes featuring on the left or even centrally. A magnificent defender first, he was also a great attacking presence, tireless and skillful — France usually played with 4 central midfielders which left the whole wing for him, and he thrived in that system.
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Highlight: His best game was probably against Brazil, many called it the preliminary final — he spent first 15 minutes on the left before returning to his usual right wing (I have no idea why, to be honest); he ran tirelessly, was impenetrable in defence and always threatening in attack, not only did he cross the ball but he also had a few dangerous shots.



Oliver Kahn — 2002 World Cup

Team accomplishment: 2nd place
Individual accomplishments: Golden Ball, Golden Glove, Team of the Tournament and 3rd in Ballon d’Or vote
Summary: During 2002 World Cup, in which Kahn was Germany’s first choice goalkeeper, Kahn conceded just three goals, keeping five clean sheets and becoming the only goalkeeper to be named the tournament’s best player. Again — I think most of you are familiar with that World Cup and I don’t need to sell him further.
Highlight: I’ll single out the save against Landon Donovan — but Kahn was unbeatable right until the final, producing, in my opinion, the best goalkeeping performance in the World Cup’s history.
 
- Bergomi played at right back — and here he's not even a RCB in a back three, just a pure stopper
- Redondo wasn't all that in 1994
- Briegel has an bad World Cup record — 2 individual mistakes in 2 lost finals, including a penalty on Conti
- He lacks width and Djalma from 1962 is not a fullback that's going to dominate the flank single-handedly like Cafu
 
Juan Veron against a better midfield that he faces now:


Elias Figueroa against a better comparable striker:


Fabio Cannavaro (including a game against Zidane's France) :drool:

 
A few comments — hopefully it will bring attention to this game
Beckenbauer about Müller said:
His acceleration was incredible. In training I have played against him and I never had a chance

I won't be as radical as Beckenbauer himself, but I still see der Bomber scoring — especially since Beckenbauer is partnered with a right back (@Arbitrium)

Fontaine also has a stellar World Cup record, but we shouldn't forget that he by many accounts he wasn't even the best player in his side (Kopa was). Plus you have to account the amount of goals that were scored in 1958 and 1970 (3,6 goals per game in 1958 and 2,9 goals per game in 1970) and the quality of the opposition — Müller scored against Moore's England (Bobby Moore is one of the few defenders that can be compared to Beckenbauer) and 2 goals against a vintage Italy's catenaccio. Plus I have 2 all-time greats in the center of my defence as opposed to Moby's 1 + 1 right back.

fifa.com about Figueroa said:
At Germany 1974, he was hailed as the competition’s best defender and named alongside Franz Beckenbauer at centre-back in the tournament's Best XI
Pele about Figueroa said:
Figueroa is the best Chilean player of all time, and probably the finest central defender in the history of football in the Americas," Pele has gone on record as saying

And I hope I don't need to comment on Cannavaro's performance — in terms of the World Cup performances by defenders he is up there with Baresi and Moore in my personal top-3.
 
Bruno Conti (and I'm not even counting in Amoros) vs Hans-Peter Briegel, 1982 World Cup final


0:19 — Briegel fouls Conti, Italy is awarded a penalty
1:45 — Conti makes a run, passes it to Altobelli, goal. 3:0
 
Lively discussion so far

:lol:

This is one of those rare matches for me that is hard to decide but really nothing controversial leaps out at me. If Moby didn't have Kaiser it would have been an easy vote but that makes things difficult.
 
Lively discussion so far

:lol: Sundays almost always lead to quiet match threads in fairness. Two good teams, but you've got the slightly stronger WC credentials imo, and Conti facing off against Briegel was highly unlucky from Moby's perspective. I still can't believe you got Kempes in the 5th fecking round of drafting. He could easily have gone in the first round imo, although he seems to be perennially underrated on here.
 
Based on their respective WC credentials, Conti and Amoros look like a hell of a right-wing partnership and could run the game here.
 
Wasn't Kempes more of a pure striker and played like one in 1978? I am one of the younger ones, so don't mind being educated.

Yea, I don't think playing him there would sell much in the later rounds.
I recently watched the 1978 final on TV and he hardly drifted wide. Was amazing from the centre though.

After watching that game, I decided to never play Krol as a LCB ever in drafts, a position he is considered a GOAT around here. (I know he didn't play LCB that game, but I have started to rate him a tad lower defensively after seeing that game)
That game should have ended lot worse than 3-1 for the Dutch. Bad bad defending all around.
 
Yea, I don't think playing him there would sell much in the later rounds.
I recently watched the 1978 final on TV and he hardly drifted wide. Was amazing from the centre though.

It just doesn't seem like getting best out of him, especially with Muller being a penalty-box striker.
 
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Wasn't Kempes more of a pure striker and played like one in 1978? I am one of the younger ones, so don't mind being educated.
Yea, I don't think playing him there would sell much in the later rounds.
I recently watched the 1978 final on TV and he hardly drifted wide. Was amazing from the centre though.



He has a free role (actually he has the most freedom of my front 4) and will often drift inside to partner Müller centrally. Nilton from 1958 is good enough to handle the wing — plus Charlton loved that left side (he was an outside left in his younger days and often appeared on the left even in his later years)
 
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