Watched the game of Argentina vs Nigeria and it illustrated once more why Veron struggled to produce the good in United. He is a ball-passing master. He pulled the strings for Argentina to provide all the passes to their front three and also in charge of all the dead balls. In order to be efficient he must get a lot of the ball -- and he got it in Argentina. Argentina are well known for their 3-3-1-3 and Veron is the "1" there -- He acted like a hub to collect all the balls from defenders and then distributed the ball smartly. But under the current United squad there are already a lot of ball passers. In United Keano is the hub, while Beckham is the dead ball specialist and playmaker. Therefore it is totally not surprising that Veron's best performances for United was the home match against Deportivo, when Keano was absent and Becks was injured before the first half hour ended. Therefore I think it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for Veron to play like what he did in Argentina. May be it need us to change our whole tactic or formation. How should we play in order to get the best from Veron? Any idea?
Veron in Argentina and Veron in United
- Thread starter uranushk1
- Start date
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong> How should we play in order to get the best from Veron? Any idea?</strong><hr></blockquote>
With us at Old Trafford, and Veron with Argentina?
"Watched the game of Argentina vs Nigeria and it illustrated once more why Veron struggled to produce the good in United. He is a ball-passing master. He pulled the strings for Argentina to provide all the passes to their front three and also in charge of all the dead balls. In order to be efficient he must get a lot of the ball -- and he got it in Argentina. Argentina are well known for their 3-3-1-3 and Veron is the "1" there -- He acted like a hub to collect all the balls from defenders and then distributed the ball smartly. But under the current United squad there are already a lot of ball passers. In United Keano is the hub, while Beckham is the dead ball specialist and playmaker. Therefore it is totally not surprising that Veron's best performances for United was the home match against Deportivo, when Keano was absent and Becks was injured before the first half hour ended. Therefore I think it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for Veron to play like what he did in Argentina. May be it need us to change our whole tactic or formation. How should we play in order to get the best from Veron? Any idea? "
I wrote more or less the same months ago. With Keano and Becks in the team, Veron will never pull the strings. Or do you think that keane would reduce his game on a defensive ballwinner (nicky Butt style) and beckham would do without taking setpieces and long passes, just because veron is happy and can pull the strings ? Very naive if you think so!
It would be the best for United and him if he plays a great world cup, then sell him for 30-40 million to a club where he can pull the strings and then buy for the money a worldclass defender (nesta?).
I wrote more or less the same months ago. With Keano and Becks in the team, Veron will never pull the strings. Or do you think that keane would reduce his game on a defensive ballwinner (nicky Butt style) and beckham would do without taking setpieces and long passes, just because veron is happy and can pull the strings ? Very naive if you think so!
It would be the best for United and him if he plays a great world cup, then sell him for 30-40 million to a club where he can pull the strings and then buy for the money a worldclass defender (nesta?).
give him the roaming role he has with the Argies or else get rid of him. I don't want a repeat of last year.
how about giving him time to ADAPT to the United game? he's not an old fart you know.
anyway after watching last season, i'm not sure what a United game is anymore, for Fergie kept on switching shiete around so often.
anyway after watching last season, i'm not sure what a United game is anymore, for Fergie kept on switching shiete around so often.
i say one year is enough.
the problem most people don't/want to see, is the fact that there were problems at OT in MANY aspects: Fergie's retirement, Stam/Cole & other unsettled dumbasses, Becks-Giggs-Keano injuries, Barthez schtuff, defense shuffling, formation experimentations and WC qualifications.
the latter 2 seasons we had more solidity in all those areas. Yorkie was good, Cole was decent, Ole rocked, Teddy was cool, less injuries in midfield, more solid defense, ONE formation mostly, ect.
however, it is very English to blame it all on one person.
the problem most people don't/want to see, is the fact that there were problems at OT in MANY aspects: Fergie's retirement, Stam/Cole & other unsettled dumbasses, Becks-Giggs-Keano injuries, Barthez schtuff, defense shuffling, formation experimentations and WC qualifications.
the latter 2 seasons we had more solidity in all those areas. Yorkie was good, Cole was decent, Ole rocked, Teddy was cool, less injuries in midfield, more solid defense, ONE formation mostly, ect.
however, it is very English to blame it all on one person.
just this "Veron" post? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
this should be VeronCafe.net
yes, England usual like to find someone to blame, ie Beckham, Mills ect for their loss.
wonder who it will be for the up coming clash with them Argies...?
oh, i know: Sven.
this should be VeronCafe.net
yes, England usual like to find someone to blame, ie Beckham, Mills ect for their loss.
wonder who it will be for the up coming clash with them Argies...?
oh, i know: Sven.
Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>
Phillip how old are you ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
phillip VIII = phillip 8
i think we have found the cafe's youngest poster.
err... don't you mean that Phillip is 8 ?
Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>err... don't you mean that Phillip is 8 ?
oh yea ..... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />
i'm 33.
i think y'all found someone to blame for ruining the Veron daily gossip.
blame on, England!
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
i think y'all found someone to blame for ruining the Veron daily gossip.
blame on, England!
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
The guy is a football player. How hard can it be to play football? Football is not the problem, he can play in any position in midfield because he has great ability. He doesnt HAVE to the hub.
He just has to settle and adapt. He can barely communicate after all.
Just remember how long it took Pires to settle. He may be our main man next year if he stays.
Big IF tho.
He just has to settle and adapt. He can barely communicate after all.
Just remember how long it took Pires to settle. He may be our main man next year if he stays.
Big IF tho.
I think the first post put it nicely...
and then we started confusing the whole issue again.
There's no point buying a 28million player in order to "retrain" him, he is unlikely to be as good and, in fact, I doubt he would.
Veron has always been the hub, the team's game revolves around him. He cost 28million because that's what you play for that kind of player.
Now, the idea is you spend that kind of money because you want the team to work in such a style that Veron is the key player.
Beckham would not present a problem, he can still do the set pieces, it really won't be an issue. The issue is Veron and Keane in midfield. It won't work unless Keane goes for a less influential role, will he?
However much it pains me, we have to accept the fact that Keane won't be there for us for too long. Should we wait for that to happen or start working with that in mind? We are unlikely to find a suitable replacement for Keane. Our 4-4-2 was very successful but how long will that be the case? Doesn't Argentina's style of play look a lot more the part?
If we are to go for that keep Veron and somehow sacrifice Keane. Otherwise SAF should get rid of him, it is absolutely pointless to "adapt him" to 4-4-2.
and then we started confusing the whole issue again.
There's no point buying a 28million player in order to "retrain" him, he is unlikely to be as good and, in fact, I doubt he would.
Veron has always been the hub, the team's game revolves around him. He cost 28million because that's what you play for that kind of player.
Now, the idea is you spend that kind of money because you want the team to work in such a style that Veron is the key player.
Beckham would not present a problem, he can still do the set pieces, it really won't be an issue. The issue is Veron and Keane in midfield. It won't work unless Keane goes for a less influential role, will he?
However much it pains me, we have to accept the fact that Keane won't be there for us for too long. Should we wait for that to happen or start working with that in mind? We are unlikely to find a suitable replacement for Keane. Our 4-4-2 was very successful but how long will that be the case? Doesn't Argentina's style of play look a lot more the part?
If we are to go for that keep Veron and somehow sacrifice Keane. Otherwise SAF should get rid of him, it is absolutely pointless to "adapt him" to 4-4-2.
Keano will have to play the Simeone role in order for this to work. this can be done, and SAF will get it done.
Originally posted by fortyseven:
<strong>
Raoul and jobt, how old are you? And how old have you decided that other people have to be for you to permit them to post on this forum? Are 8 year olds prohibited? Or 80 year olds? Or just anyone who disagrees with your point of view?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nones prohibited from posting. Just curious thats all 'fortyseven'
I would find it hard to believe that Keane would adapt a purely holding role,he is the life blood of the team and the main reason we have dominated English football over the last 5 years.He has too much influence,he is the captain and there is a lot of life in the old dog yet.In fact I predict a huge season from him again,which will result in us cleaning up domestically and hopefully in europe also
Originally posted by redfan:
<strong>
We are getting a little carried away now, 4-4-2, 3-3-1-3, what next. Sir Matt had a simple system, "You go out there and play YOUR game, if you find it is not working you adapt.". These are footballers, they can adapt, the thing that stops them is the fecking system. Like the great Brazil and Real sides you start with a basic 4-4-2, and you play around that system, it's not rocket science.</strong><hr></blockquote>
fecking good system I would say! What I mean by "moving away from 4-4-2" is related to that. The issue I see is we find it extremely hard to do anything else, players look lost or we find it unlikely that the player will "adapt". I think it is about time we start forcing the issue of United being able to play a variety of systems (as opposed to just one).
Of course depending on what you face in different games you will use different players or ask them to perform different roles, even when one might suit them better but doesn't fit your gameplan.
Gone are the days when you form a team with 11 definite starters, give them a system and say, OK, we will always play like that and let the rival adapt to it! Well, the rival will, and will kick your arse all over the place!!!
the game in England have changed over the years. thanks to Eric the King who made the EPL so much more interesting hence brought in more and more foreiners of a different type... but that, is another story.
fact is, if MU want to continue to be successful, they will have to "adapt" to the increasingly complex style of modern football that is happening in the EPL.
fact is, if MU want to continue to be successful, they will have to "adapt" to the increasingly complex style of modern football that is happening in the EPL.
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>
fecking good system I would say! What I mean by "moving away from 4-4-2" is related to that. The issue I see is we find it extremely hard to do anything else, players look lost or we find it unlikely that the player will "adapt". I think it is about time we start forcing the issue of United being able to play a variety of systems (as opposed to just one).
Of course depending on what you face in different games you will use different players or ask them to perform different roles, even when one might suit them better but doesn't fit your gameplan.
Gone are the days when you form a team with 11 definite starters, give them a system and say, OK, we will always play like that and let the rival adapt to it! Well, the rival will, and will kick your arse all over the place!!!
I agree to an extent in what you are saying, but my argument is in the tactics/systems now being employed in the game, lets face it , know matter what system you employ you end up with a defence, a midfield and an attack. Defenders defend, the midfield do the creating and the forwards score the goals. What has gone wrong is that now fullbacks have to be wingers, why, fullbacks are defenders, you always need a back four, you only need to change the way your midfield operates. Any special treatment the opposition warrants, ie you may want to play more attacking/ defensive is done through your midfield, we now employ a bigger squad so this should not be a problem. Playing systems kills off wingers therefore it kills your attacking flair, like I said in my earlier post, Real never had a problem, nor did Brazil, and playing as they did or as the Babes did, they would not have a problem with todays game.
I would hate to see Veron go and become an incredible success,once again, without him having the chance to settle in with all the wackie formations Fergie's playing with...I only pray that Fergie's finished with the musical positions...
To add to this I think it be very important that Fergie settle RVN by assuring him that he'll have two if not three consistant partners up front. Nothing's going to jell if he keeps mixing the fecking pot.
To add to this I think it be very important that Fergie settle RVN by assuring him that he'll have two if not three consistant partners up front. Nothing's going to jell if he keeps mixing the fecking pot.