Utd Draft: R1 - Iso vs Enigma

With players at their career (not Utd) peak, who would win?

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .

Physiocrat

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Iso

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Enigma

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Iso Tactics

A modern-style 4-3-3 formation is crafted from a blend of United legends and former players.

Denis Law, one of the few Ballon d’Or-winning United players, leads the attack, with industrious Solksjaer and Angel Di Maria providing support and linking up with the midfield.

In Sammy McIlroy (with 419 United games) and Lou Macari (with 400 games), we have a proven United duo who excel in dominating the midfield, supporting both attack and defense.
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(Lou Macari and Sammy McIlroy celebrates)

Adding steel to this famous duo, and screening the defense, is the lovable Nobby Stiles, a player who was capable of marking Eusebio out of the game in the famous 1968 European Cup final.

The defensive lineup is anchored by Alex Stepney, with an impressive 546 games as goalkeeper for United from 1966 to 1978. United graduate Ryan Shawcross complements Laurent Blanc, forming a formidable partnership. Completing the defense are United legends Paul Parker and Arthur Albiston, with a combined total of 627 appearances for the club.

Enigma Tactics

Formation: 4-4-2
Style: direct, balanced Fergie late 90's style

Defence:
On goal we have Victor Valdes. He's someone who is very good with ball in his feed and his ability to launch a counter is the reason we picked him for this draft. In terms of accolades he might not be the most complete keeper but he was solid enough to win 6 La Liga titles and 3 CL playing for one of the greatest teams in history. Ahead of him we have Tony Dunne - United great and safely to say one of the finest defenders we ever had. Viv Anderson - another excellent and dependable English defender. For this draft we're counting on his Forest peak when he was a menace on the right and can overlap Strachan putting a surging runs whilst also having the lungs to man his flank. At the heart of the defence we have Paul McGrath who needs little introduction bossing the defence. Next to him is David May who had a very good couple of years at Blackburn before moving to United and performing well in some important games, winning his spot against some tough competition at the time - Johnsen, Pallister, Bruce, Berg, etc..

Midfield:
At the heart of midfield we have the German maestro at his peak Bayern/Germany days - Bastian Schweinsteiger. He will dictate the game and act as a two way box to box midfielder, having Casemiro cover for him in the defensive phase. Casemiro himself is the Real version who shields the back four and has a spectacular trophy cabinet to boot. On the right it's Gordan Strachan who will act as a wide playmaker in a wideish RM role which he loved to occupy. Left midfielder/winger is Muhren who had couple of very successful stints at Ajax and Ipswich before joining United where he won the European Cup as a starter for Ajax and the UEFA cup for Ipswich.

Attack:
A combo of our very own legend Dennis Viollet who was a complete forward, capable of occupying multiple roles and Diego Forlan who found his form in La Liga after moving from his unsuccessful United stint.

Player peaks:

Victor Valdes - (2009 -2012) - won 4 Zamora trophies and 2 times elected La Liga best keeper.
Viv Anderson - (1977 - 1982) - pillar for a great Forest team that enjoyed European and domestic success.
Tony Dunne - (1965 - 1968) - United dependable left back who needs little introduction but the most famous one - winning the CL after rupturing his achilles in the QF.
Paul McGrath - (90 - 94) - marred with injuries at United his class was evident when fit. His best years probably came at Villa and in the 94 WC where he put up a colossal performance

David May - (1993 - 1997) - played pivotal role in our successful 96/97 campaign when there were injuries and he had to step up. Was very solid at Blackburn too where he could fill either at RB or CB, with CB being his preferred position.
Arnold Muhren (1972/74 - 1978 - 1982) - a total footballer who can play in multiple roles in midfield. Elegant, technical, with a whip of a shot:

Gordon Strachan (1980 - 1985) - A wide playmaker, and very technical player he made his name at Aberdeen and was 4th in the Ballon D'or list in 83.

Bastian Schweinsteiger - (2010 -2014) - he needs little introduction but at his peak at Bayern he was one of the very elite when it comes to all action midfielders.

Casemiro - ( 2017-2022 ) - anchor and glue for one of the best Real teams in history.
Dennis Viollet - (1954-1960) - a forgotten legend but no Red has offered a more incisive cutting edge than Dennis Viollet in 1959/60, when he plundered 32 goals in 36 games, setting a club record for league football that has never been beaten.

Diego Forlan - ( 2007-2010 ) - I'll nick a description from @Physiocrat but the truth is after a negative stint at United he flourished for the NT and in La Liga, turning out to be one of the best strikers on his day:

Let’s not also forget that Diego Forlan was a complete and deadly striker. Joint-top scorer in the 2010 World Cup with 5 goals including a goal in both the quarters and semis, in addition to being named player of the tournament. Pichichi winner in 04-05 and 08-09. At his three year consecutive peak at Atletico Madrid between 07-10 he scored 66 goals in 102 league games. He was also one of the most two footed players I have ever seen. If you have time watch this video – it also showcases some of his aerial ability.
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Love that midfield line from Enigma. Mainly seen Strachan from international games and some Aberdeen Euro ones and he immediately jumped out as an excellent footballer, sort of like a Scottish Giresse.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
Love that midfield line from Enigma. Mainly seen Strachan from international games and some Aberdeen Euro ones and he immediately jumped out as an excellent footballer, sort of like a Scottish Giresse.
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Cheers, mate.

yeah the midfield is the crown jewel in the team. I really like both Muhren and Strachan on the flanks as they compliment well the central pair.

On Strachan specifically I liked him in the past when researching for the pre premier league draft and always wanted to pick him.
 
Managed to vote before it closed here, so that's something!

Anyway, this is pretty clear.

Enigma has no obvious issues in terms of how he sets up/the suitability of his players for their roles (the roles aren't fleshed out much, though - but that goes for his opponent as well - you kinda have to do that fleshing out yourself, but I don't see anything horribly wrong with anything here).

Iso's setup looks alright too, there isn't anything glaring there, it's more a question of quality.

And it's not a huge discrepancy either, just a little bit - but in key positions.

Solskjaer was alright out wide but he was mainly functional there in a specific system, he wasn't actually a winger (or a player you'd play there per default).

And as much as I like McIlroy and Macari, Enigma has their number objectively with Casemiro and - especially - Schweiny. The one who compares to them there (objective quality, historical status) is Nobby, but I can't see him making all that much difference in this particular setup/formation.

Both go for a back four - and I'd actually give this "battle" to Iso, even if Shawcross stands out a bit (but then again, David May's only true claim to fame is being a United player, and a very anonymous one if we're honest): but I can't help seeing Valdes (in his prime, for Barca) having very little obvious synergy with the defenders in front of him.

As for the individual quality of the back fours + keepers, it's very close. Nothing really stands out, but then again I rate McGrath immensely. Objectively *, Blanc is better - but feck that, there's no way I would ever pick Blanc over McGrath.

Also, Viv > Parker.

So, yeah - it's Enigma. Best player on the park is Law, but not enough.

* I mean, historically - his CV, how he's generally rated. NOT talking about the eye test.
 
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Upgrades for Enigma?

Get rid of May - clearly. He's the least final worthy player there (I mean, he's pretty much the definition of a not final worthy player, as "decent" as he may have been).

But other than that - it's a very interesting XI in the sense that you could upgrade pretty much everyone (except McGrath - there is no upgrade there), but not because the player already there is shit (far from it).
 
Commiserations @Isotope . Mighty fine team as always. Shawcross probably a liability in the team but CB's are very hard to come up from personal experience in later rounds..
 
Physiocrat said:
I believe it's the first time I have been quoted in an OP. Thanks :)
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I knew you liked Forlan and took the opportunity to find the write up :)

Chesterlestreet said:
Managed to vote before it closed here, so that's something!

Anyway, this is pretty clear.

Enigma has no obvious issues in terms of how he sets up/the suitability of his players for their roles (the roles aren't fleshed out much, though - but that goes for his opponent as well - you kinda have to do that fleshing out yourself, but I don't see anything horribly wrong with anything here).

Iso's setup looks alright too, there isn't anything glaring there, it's more a question of quality.

And it's not a huge discrepancy either, just a little bit - but in key positions.

Solskjaer was alright out wide but he was mainly functional there in a specific system, he wasn't actually a winger (or a player you'd play there per default).

And as much as I like McIlroy and Macari, Enigma has their number objectively with Casemiro and - especially - Schweiny. The one who compares to them there (objective quality, historical status) is Nobby, but I can't see him making all that much difference in this particular setup/formation.

Both go for a back four - and I'd actually give this "battle" to Iso, even if Shawcross stands out a bit (but then again, David May's only true claim to fame is being a United player, and a very anonymous one if we're honest): but I can't help seeing Valdes (in his prime, for Barca) having very little obvious synergy with the defenders in front of him.

As for the individual quality of the back fours + keepers, it's very close. Nothing really stands out, but then again I rate McGrath immensely. Objectively *, Blanc is better - but feck that, there's no way I would ever pick Blanc over McGrath.

Also, Viv > Parker.

So, yeah - it's Enigma. Best player on the park is Law, but not enough.

* I mean, historically - his CV, how he's generally rated. NOT talking about the eye test.
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Cheers for the input.

May was.. well decent. I mean it was pretty tough to come up with a quality CB later on and I needed to prioritize other positions too.

As for McGrath IMO he's better than Blanc. Blanc has one clear weakness and that was pace. McGrath on the other hand could easily slot into both stopper and sweeper type of player and had no physical weaknesses. His issue in terms of legacy was IMO lack of silverware - as he played for United sides in the 80's which wasn't up to par with our latter teams and Villa side which was solid one but that's about it. Same goes for the NT. Still some of his performances were spectacular and I have no doubt he'd be a star in a better team with better individuals.

Chesterlestreet said:
Upgrades for Enigma?

Get rid of May - clearly. He's the least final worthy player there (I mean, he's pretty much the definition of a not final worthy player, as "decent" as he may have been).

But other than that - it's a very interesting XI in the sense that you could upgrade pretty much everyone (except McGrath - there is no upgrade there), but not because the player already there is shit (far from it).
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TBH I'm not sure where to go at this stage, have to see who is available. The midfield is something I'd probably keep as long as it takes me as I really love what each player brings to it.

Casemiro is rare pick in terms of his ability to drop in the hole and protect the back 4. He was quintessential for that Real team to play as holder and allow Modric and Kroos to get their freedom. Similarly here Strachan can tuck in and form a similar pairing with Schweini to boss the midfield, whilst Viv is one of the best picks to provide width on the right.

May needs replacing yes, otherwise it's hard choices when it comes to picking potential replacements apart from purely name on the team sheet but also preserving the team chemistry.
 
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