Utd Draft: QF - NM vs Sjor

[Physiocrat]

NM

Sjor

NM Tactics

DF: Gregg is one of our best keepers. Vidic is the stopper. Greenhof was known as the ball player. Evra is amongst the best LBs we have had. Brennan is a tough full back.. Good synergy

MF: Scholes will play deep as Satnav. Pinging balls to RVP, Sanchrz and Di Maria. Ince will be box to box and Webb was known as a passer.. Lots of bite in this midfield, along with everybody having an eye for a pass. The star is Scholes of course.

FW: Di Maria and Sanchez will provide the width. Both will stay wide / drift in as needed depending on the flow of the game. Their job is to feed RVP. RVP is the main man. As Fergie said, if they can't find him, the rest of the team won't play.

The idea is to have several fluid playmakers (Scholes, Di Maria, Evra, Sanchez) who will find synergies to open the opposition up

Sjor Tactics

44 fecking 2
Best defensive team in the draft + 2 balon dor winners up front.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Šjor Bepo @NM

Game on!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@NM good luck!

btw surprised you didnt use Di Maria as LCM instead of Webb and keep Mata in the front three....

 

[NM]

@NM good luck!

btw surprised you didnt use Di Maria as LCM instead of Webb and keep Mata in the front three....

Mata isn't rated on the caf and tbh, I don't rate him as a RW (which is how I want to play).

I think my midfield steamrolls yours (even with Keano) and that wins me this game IMO.

And sorry, Michael Owen may be amongst the worst Ballon D'or winners ever.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Mata isn't rated on the caf and tbh, I don't rate him as a RW (which is how I want to play).

I think my midfield steamrolls yours (even with Keano) and that wins me this game IMO.

And sorry, Michael Owen may be amongst the worst Ballon D'or winners ever.

id actually use valencia lw version but yeah he probably woildnt be rated...

thats hilarious.

worst or not, he was a brilliant striker at his peak and your CBs would have a lot of problems with him, specially when you add law to the picture

 

[Šjor Bepo]

to respond on the steamroll nonsense....roy keane midfield doesnt get steamrolled by anyone and when you add a powerhouse like Matic, the Chelsea version not the turd we got then its most likely your midfield of spud webb and charlie would get steamrolled not the other way around.
Think people forget how brilliant Matic was at Chelsea, even deluded arsenal fans were saying at the time he was the Vieira they were missing and it takes a lot for those lot to praise anyone other then goonies frauds.

Add to that battle a warrior like Valencia and magic of Cunningham, its a much better midfield IMO.

Its obviously subjective but think i have more quality all over the pitch and a cleaner tactical fits.

 

[Physiocrat]

to respond on the steamroll nonsense....roy keane midfield doesnt get steamrolled by anyone and when you add a powerhouse like Matic, the Chelsea version not the turd we got then its most likely your midfield of spud webb and charlie would get steamrolled not the other way around.
Think people forget how brilliant Matic was at Chelsea, even deluded arsenal fans were saying at the time he was the Vieira they were missing and it takes a lot for those lot to praise anyone other then goonies frauds.

Add to that battle a warrior like Valencia and magic of Cunningham, its a much better midfield IMO.

Its obviously subjective but think i have more quality all over the pitch and a cleaner tactical fits.

Do you have anything on Cunningham? I don't know him.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Do you have anything on Cunningham? I don't know him.

TIFO had a nice storyline vid on him and @Pat_Mustard made a compilation of him in

 

[NM]

to respond on the steamroll nonsense....roy keane midfield doesnt get steamrolled by anyone and when you add a powerhouse like Matic, the Chelsea version not the turd we got then its most likely your midfield of spud webb and charlie would get steamrolled not the other way around.
Think people forget how brilliant Matic was at Chelsea, even deluded arsenal fans were saying at the time he was the Vieira they were missing and it takes a lot for those lot to praise anyone other then goonies frauds.

Add to that battle a warrior like Valencia and magic of Cunningham, its a much better midfield IMO.

Its obviously subjective but think i have more quality all over the pitch and a cleaner tactical fits.

We got beat with Keane. Is he the best midfielder here? Yes. Did we lose a lot in Europe with him? Yes. 4-4-2 is dead and 4-5-1 killed it. 3 folks (all good passers) easily beat the two. Your boys aren't getting any service.

Tbh, I've always thought that Evra would roast Valencia if they ever played (and I love Tony V) so I'm actually very interested in knowing other people's thoughts. Valencia's one footedness would make it easy imo.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

We got beat with Keane. Is he the best midfielder here? Yes. Did we lose a lot in Europe with him? Yes. 4-4-2 is dead and 4-5-1 killed it. 3 folks (all good passers) easily beat the two. Your boys aren't getting any service.

Tbh, I've always thought that Evra would roast Valencia if they ever played (and I love Tony V) so I'm actually very interested in knowing other people's thoughts. Valencia's one footedness would make it easy imo.

getting beat and getting steamrolled are two different points. Of course he got beat, put 11 best players of all time in the team and they will be beaten. Point is, my midfield is better then yours, passing point is okay but i disagree as both Ince and Webb are average, its not im facing a Barca trio or even an Arsenal trio....

its 3 vs 2 but you are forgetting wide midfielders who are always active in the midfield battle + law plays in the hole and while i rate and adore Scholesy, he will struggle out of possession. He needs a proper specialist next to him or if its a runner it needs to be of highest quality considering the level of opposition.

see, im the total opposite haha
valencia defensive game, pace and power would nulify evras ability to carry the ball which is his biggest strength and om
n the other end....yes he was one footed but he was that good that it still worked + headless chicken like lennon used to tore evra a new one and he was as onw footed as valencia.

 

[NM]

getting beat and getting steamrolled are two different points. Of course he got beat, put 11 best players of all time in the team and they will be beaten. Point is, my midfield is better then yours, passing point is okay but i disagree as both Ince and Webb are average, its not im facing a Barca trio or even an Arsenal trio....

its 3 vs 2 but you are forgetting wide midfielders who are always active in the midfield battle + law plays in the hole and while i rate and adore Scholesy, he will struggle out of possession. He needs a proper specialist next to him or if its a runner it needs to be of highest quality considering the level of opposition.

see, im the total opposite haha
valencia defensive game, pace and power would nulify evras ability to carry the ball which is his biggest strength and om
n the other end....yes he was one footed but he was that good that it still worked + headless chicken like lennon used to tore evra a new one and he was as onw footed as valencia.

Your midfield isn't better. Ince isn't "average" and Scholes was probably a better midfielder than Keane. Keane is Keane at United but the majority of the world knows whose better. Sanchez and Di Maria are also very hard workers, so I think you have some rose tinted glasses on.

Everybody has their kryptonite. Lennon was one guy who beat Evra constantly. Torres has a rep of eating Vidic for lunch. It's just life. Vidic didn't have problems with anybody else so I think you are clutching at straws here mate.

I still think anybody trumpeting Michael Fecking Owen as their striker needs to take a minute. He needs a setup with Heskey. Law is fantastic but I have major doubts as Owen never succeeded without a specific setup

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Your midfield isn't better. Ince isn't "average" and Scholes was probably a better midfielder than Keane. Keane is Keane at United but the majority of the world knows whose better. Sanchez and Di Maria are also very hard workers, so I think you have some rose tinted glasses on.

Everybody has their kryptonite. Lennon was one guy who beat Evra constantly. Torres has a rep of eating Vidic for lunch. It's just life. Vidic didn't have problems with anybody else so I think you are clutching at straws here mate.

I still think anybody trumpeting Michael Fecking Owen as their striker needs to take a minute. He needs a setup with Heskey. Law is fantastic but I have major doubts as Owen never succeeded without a specific setup

ince is a solid player, nothing more nothing less...when i called them average i meant st their passing game(even though webb is average overall) as you tried to portait them as some barca triangle.

alexis i dont rate at all but he is a hard worker as is di maria who plays on the right? only di maria i rate highly is that lcm version from madrid, rest is just meh but okay, he is good as a winger.

so now we talking about kryptonites when i killed your argument of one footness? cool.
valencia is a stronger and better version of lennon, if lennon destroyed him there is a good fecking chance valencia does the same given similar style.

as for red tinted glasses, wont even bother to respond on that owen crap....yeah, young michael owen was a glorified darren bent.

also, never once said keane is better then scholes but yeah, apparently only united fans rate keane...

 

[Himannv]

Sjor's team is great off the ball, but I'm not as convinced by them on it. Keane and maybe Cunningham are like the most creative players in the side. Love the front two but I'm not sure they get on the ball all that much here.

 

[Physiocrat]

Dis Owen ever play well alongside a Law or Sheringham style SS? In theory he should, but his best form came alongside Heskey, the classic big man.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Dis Owen ever play well alongside a Law or Sheringham style SS? In theory he should, but his best form came alongside Heskey, the classic big man.

He played with variety of partners for both england and lpool, from rooney to fowler. He played well with Heskey because pool at the time lacked a bit of bite and quality so it was easier to lump it towards the big man.

Id love to hear one reason why he cant play without Heskey? Its beyond belief im even writting this. Even if you watch his stint at United, at that point he was like a little disabled kid - couldnt run, couldnt dribble, weak yet he was still effective to a certain point because of his football IQ. Probably best of the ball movement of a striker alongside Cavani and Cole that i saw at United.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Sjor's team is great off the ball, but I'm not as convinced by them on it. Keane and maybe Cunningham are like the most creative players in the side. Love the front two but I'm not sure they get on the ball all that much here.

Cunningham and Law not enough creativity? Owen can also create his own chances.
Keane is a brilliant footballer and Matic is good enough to move the ball around.

Left Valencia as i reckon he is underrated as people forgot how brilliant he was pre injury as a winger. He was influencing and deciding big CL nights like vs Bayern or Milan as well as being brilliant in the Prem while the league was top class. Bet if i had Nani there wouldnt be an issue and Valencia is the better player.

 

[NM]

ince is a solid player, nothing more nothing less...when i called them average i meant st their passing game(even though webb is average overall) as you tried to portait them as some barca triangle.

alexis i dont rate at all but he is a hard worker as is di maria who plays on the right? only di maria i rate highly is that lcm version from madrid, rest is just meh but okay, he is good as a winger.

so now we talking about kryptonites when i killed your argument of one footness? cool.
valencia is a stronger and better version of lennon, if lennon destroyed him there is a good fecking chance valencia does the same given similar style.

as for red tinted glasses, wont even bother to respond on that owen crap....yeah, young michael owen was a glorified darren bent.

also, never once said keane is better then scholes but yeah, apparently only united fans rate keane...

Dude watch the hyperbole

This is why I don't like these draft threads. Barca triangle. What a joke.

3 is better than 2 yes? Math + lots of defeats for us in Europe prove that. Matic is as average as they come. If you are calling Ince average, Matic is shit. You don't rate di Maria other than one version if your problem. A bunch of stats show otherwise, so I don't really care.

One footed argument and kryptonite ?? again stop the hyperbole. Just making this not fun. I said I liked Valencia and wanted to see what others thought.

Owens needed Heskey to be successful. If you know better than all those managers that even played him with Heskey for England good for you.

Beyond that. feck this. Just not fun. I'm out.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Dude watch the hyperbole

This is why I don't like these draft threads. Barca triangle. What a joke.

3 is better than 2 yes? Math + lots of defeats for us in Europe prove that. Matic is as average as they come. If you are calling Ince average, Matic is shit. You don't rate di Maria other than one version if your problem. A bunch of stats show otherwise, so I don't really care.

One footed argument and kryptonite ?? again stop the hyperbole. Just making this not fun. I said I liked Valencia and wanted to see what others thought.

Owens needed Heskey to be successful. If you know better than all those managers that even played him with Heskey for England good for you.

Beyond that. feck this. Just not fun. I'm out.

did i say those three gonna outpass my midfield? ince game was all about power not cute little passing triangles.

yeah, its not like keane won CL with 442 and xy other teams before and after. Its about team dynamics not about numbers you see in a match preview.
yap, chelsea matic is shit.

again you said evra would roast valencia and then used one footedness as your argument, guess its my fault i killed your argument....

i know feck all compared to them but they also won feck all with golden generation so using that as your argument is almost as bad as that kryptonite shit.

bye bye

 

[prolifik]

Saying "Owen needed Heskey" seems rather hyperbolic tbh. It's confusing correlation with causation - his most successful years happened to coincide with Heskey, but he burst onto the scene as a star playing with Fowler and then Shearer. There isn't anything about his game that suggests he could only succeed with one type of setup.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

 

[Himannv]

Owens needed Heskey to be successful.

I voted for you, but I don't agree with this. Owen can score different type of goals and I think that characterization of him is incorrect. He doesn't need Heskey. I once posted a video of the goals he scored in a game that included all types of goals, both with and without Heskey involved. At his peak he was lightening quick and a top notch goal poacher. Law is more than a good partner for him and the strike duo is the best thing about this Sjor team in my view.

EDIT: Here we go, details here: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/only-fools-and-horses-sf-himann-vs-p-nut.459215/

 

[Himannv]

Cunningham and Law not enough creativity? Owen can also create his own chances.
Keane is a brilliant footballer and Matic is good enough to move the ball around.

Left Valencia as i reckon he is underrated as people forgot how brilliant he was pre injury as a winger. He was influencing and deciding big CL nights like vs Bayern or Milan as well as being brilliant in the Prem while the league was top class. Bet if i had Nani there wouldnt be an issue and Valencia is the better player.

I already gave you Cunningham. I have no concerns with the front two, it's what's behind them that I'm thinking is slightly uninspiring on the ball.

 

[NM]

I voted for you, but I don't agree with this. Owen can score different type of goals and I think that characterization of him is incorrect. He doesn't need Heskey. I once posted a video of the goals he scored in a game that included all types of goals, both with and without Heskey involved. At his peak he was lightening quick and a top notch goal poacher. Law is more than a good partner for him and the strike duo is the best thing about this Sjor team in my view.

EDIT: Here we go, details here: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/only-fools-and-horses-sf-himann-vs-p-nut.459215/

Law is fantastic. No two ways about it. I just never rated Owen and think he got found out the minute he left Liverpool. I agree that the strike partnership is the best thing about his team, primarily due to Law. I don't fancy his midfield and think the best defense line is a joke.

That being said, the crazy, stupid arguments is one more reason to stay away. I just don't enjoy this anymore, so will step away for a while after this .

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Ouch. I think you guys have done a harsh number on a bunch of these players. Owen, Matic (until his athleticism died when he got near 30), Ince and Webb are all really good imo.

I know Ince eventually got criticism for becoming a tactically sloppy player (often trying to do too much), which is probably fair, though I didn't watch enough of him at club level after Inter to say much on that. He wasn't like that at Inter, where he adapted to the strict tactics really well, and I didn't see much difference in quality between Keane and him when both were at United; it seems to me the main separation is that Keane just stayed top-class for longer and was a more dedicated player at maintaining/improving his game. Staying in Serie A would probably have been better for Ince as a player. Webb i've possibly not watched enough to really say, but seemed classy in most of the internationals I've seen him in before the achilles injury that he's said not to have recovered from, and far better at that point than the static, uninvolved player i saw in some 91-92 games . He had a fine partnership with Robson and looked a very skilled footballer with a role that was somewhere in between Hoddle and Wilkins. He definitely had a good pass on him.