United's recent history of huge contracts and subsequent performances

Bastian

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Rooney got his 250K and fell off a cliff.
De Gea got his 375K and regressed each year.
Alexis came in on somewhere between 400-450K a week and looked finished.
Casemiro came in and looked great for 6-7 months on his 350K wage, but has looked finished for a year and a half.
Bruno was already earning 200K with 2+1 left on his deal, somehow managed to convince INEOS to give him a new 300K deal at 30 years old, 3+1 years. Subsequently looked average.
Pogba apparently was paid 290K, with performances ranging from 1/10 to 9/10, on average maybe 5/10.
Rashford was given 300K after scoring those 30 goals, and he's been a bit of a disaster ever since.
Martial was on 250K when he couldn't run, wasn't fancied at Sevilla on-loan, and then his body started falling apart.
Mason Mount on 250K, can hardly stay fit. A good player, but even if he's constantly available like Bruno, he's not a 250K player.
Antony apparently earning 200K. No words needed.
Di Maria was on 280K. That went pretty badly.
Falcao was earning 265K, and he chose when he wanted to play it seems.
Sancho was (is) on about 250K, been a complete failure.
I'd even add Mata here, as he got paid 160K when we signed him and we didn't have a need nor a role for him, good player but the absolute wrong piece in our puzzle.
Schweinsteiger 240-260K, arriving at 31 years of age. Played a total of 35 matches. 2073 minutes. So about 26m in wages. Or 12.500 quid per minute played.

There was supposed to be this new stance a year and a half ago, that no one would earn more than 200K. They proceeded to give Rashford that huge contract though, upgraded Bruno, wanted to upgrade Maguire (earning 190K) before the start of last season (thank f they didn't).

Rashford signed a new deal at 21 where he got 250K.

I was pretty pissed off and still am about Bruno's new contract. Not mainly because it's not merited, which it isn't, but because I thought we were actually going to be serious now. Only pay superstar wages to superstar performers. And top wages for top players. I don't think there is one player in our squad who merits 200K, certainly not 250K, and nowhere near 300K.

How much is Garnacho on now? How much will Amad get? And how much does Mainoo earn? I don't want us to ruin these players when they're young and hungry. As so many have said, so often, these contracts need to be heavily incentivised, collectively more than individually, so win bonuses, trophy bonuses, etc. and reign in the base salaries.
 
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I'd hope if that's true it's because we are being less reckless and trying to incentivise their deals and producing year by year increases rather than giving them something crazy like we did for Rashford at 21.
 
There was zero reason to extend Bruno when he was already tied to a long-term contract and the club held all the cards. Unfortunately he and his representatives played the club and the fans like a fiddle over the summer with their PR charm offensive.
 
Bastian said:


I'd hope if that's true it's because we are being less reckless and trying to incentivise their deals and producing year by year increases rather than giving them something crazy like we did for Rashford at 21.
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Wouldn't be sad to lose either one of them.
 
feck em, about time we stuck to our guns, it'll show we have principles and reduce this ridiculous "player power" attitude that's infested the club. It might take us extra effort to recruit promising talent but we've got to stop rewarding mediocrity.
 
A while back I was looking at our most expensive post Fergie signings and besides a couple of players who could be categorized from mediocre to good the rest have been complete duds. We have been ridiculously wasteful this last 12 years.

As for contracts, Rooney was the first stupid contract extension which started the whole nonsense. At that stage it was evident that he was on a decline and we should have never given him such a big contract. That was immediately followed by a ridiculous contract extension for Nani, who was then sent out on loan to Sporting while we paid his wages to get Marcus fecking Rojo. I guess that was the start of Woodward's famous "protecting the value" era. There were many ridiculous contract extensions after that - Rojo, Bailly, Zlatan (after he tore his acl at 90 years old), Phil Jones, Shaw, Martial, De Gea etc. etc. etc. to Bruno's latest one.

Bruno's suggests that the lesson from the Woodward shit show still haven't been learned.
 
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Blood Mage said:
Wouldn't be sad to lose either one of them.
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would hate to see them go and I'm sure we will find a compromise but if it results in United being managed better from an economic and standards point of view then so be it
 
The Firestarter said:
It's unclear yet if his first was bit of a purple patch. Need at least one more year to get some sense.
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He was really good all season despite injuries and a massively underperforming team, and then went to the euros and played his way into an indispensable part of an England team that reached the final. Calling that a purple patch seems highly unfair.

It’s pretty clear he’s just wrecked from playing so much so young this season and through injuries and is struggling as a result. Madness to write the lad off or play down his talents.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I would, but if it's the price to pay to get our wage structure back in order, so be it.
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Yeah, that would be my stance too. Mainoo is an outstanding talent. Would cost us an enormous amount to buy that level of talent from elsewhere. But if he's after some star player contract with no room to negotiate then the only sane thing to do is sell him.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
There was zero reason to extend Bruno when he was already tied to a long-term contract and the club held all the cards. Unfortunately he and his representatives played the club and the fans like a fiddle over the summer with their PR charm offensive.
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Said it at the time. He should have been sold. I'm bored of watching him play for us and seeing him make the same unnecessary sloppy errors game after game.
 
Bastian said:


I'd hope if that's true it's because we are being less reckless and trying to incentivise their deals and producing year by year increases rather than giving them something crazy like we did for Rashford at 21.
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Both of their contracts have still years left on them, no hurry. Especially Garnacho signed one last season i believe.
 
On mainoo and garnacho. Let. Them. Go.

United can't keep getting bent over in player contact negotiations I think that's more important then anything that's going on the pitch formation wise right now.
 
The Bruno one definitely was a head scratcher, the vast majority of the previous mad contracts were due to incompetence. With INEOS the De Ligt, Ugarte, Zirkzee, Yoro and Mazraoui contracts all seem reasonable, possibly Yoro's is a bit high but maybe that was the cost of being able to get him.
 
Bastian said:


I'd hope if that's true it's because we are being less reckless and trying to incentivise their deals and producing year by year increases rather than giving them something crazy like we did for Rashford at 21.
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Wouldn't lose sleep over both of them going as long as we have any potential replacements already lined up.

Wasn't Di Maria also on 280K per week?
 
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Give Mainoo the wage he deserves, he was our best midfielder last year at 18. Makes no sense to be earning 5k or whatever he was on.

Garnacho though? If he doesn’t want to extend I won’t lose any sleep.
 
Bastian said:


I'd hope if that's true it's because we are being less reckless and trying to incentivise their deals and producing year by year increases rather than giving them something crazy like we did for Rashford at 21.
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There’s no need or rush to renew their contracts, got control on both til 2028.. hopefully we’ve learned from the Bruno-extension.
 
Waynne said:
Wouldn't lose sleep over both of them going as long as we have any potential replacements already lined up.

Wasn't Di Maria also on 280K per week?
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There's security there, but if we cannot agree deals, and Mainoo is on something well below what he merits, it's not a good situation.

I'm editing the OP to add players I forgot, di Maria being one, cheers.
 
Garnacho got a new deal under ETH didn’t he?

I agree with others on here re Bruno (said as much in that thread that there was no point offering anything) but he was only extended by like 1+1 years wasn’t he? Also nothing seemed to come out re his salary specifically other than that he would be a top earner which makes me hope it got stuffed full of add ons.
 
Mainoo allegedly on £20k a week until 2027 with a year option. Garnacho seemingly on about £50k a week until 2028.

Tell them to bide their time and earn their contract. Both seem fair at this very moment but if they both kick on like they have the potential to, they will deserve new ones in the summer.

Be gutted to see Kobbie go. Garnacho not so much, he stinks as the kind of player that’ll feck off at some point so might as well be now if he’s not going to start performing
 
Bastian said:
Rooney got his 250K and fell off a cliff.
De Gea got his 375K and regressed each year.
Alexis came in on somewhere between 400-450K a week and looked finished.
Casemiro came in and looked great for 6-7 months on his 350K wage, but has looked finished for a year and a half.
Bruno was already earning 200K with 2+1 left on his deal, somehow managed to convince INEOS to give him a new 300K deal at 30 years old, 3+1 years. Subsequently looked average.
Pogba apparently was paid 290K, with performances ranging from 1/10 to 9/10, on average maybe 5/10.
Rashford was given 300K after scoring those 30 goals, and he's been a bit of a disaster ever since.
Martial was on 250K when he couldn't run, wasn't fancied at Sevilla on-loan, and then his body started falling apart.
Mason Mount on 250K, can hardly stay fit. A good player, but even if he's constantly available like Bruno, he's not a 250K player.
Antony apparently earning 200K. No words needed.
Di Maria was on 280K. That went pretty badly.
Falcao was earning 265K, and he chose when he wanted to play it seems.
Sancho was (is) on about 250K, been a complete failure.
I'd even add Mata here, as he got paid 160K when we signed him and we didn't have a need nor a role for him, good player but the absolute wrong piece in our puzzle.

There was supposed to be this new stance a year and a half ago, that no one would earn more than 200K. They proceeded to give Rashford that huge contract though, upgraded Bruno, wanted to upgrade Maguire (earning 190K) before the start of last season (thank f they didn't).

Rashford signed a new deal at 21 where he got 250K.

I was pretty pissed off and still am about Bruno's new contract. Not mainly because it's not merited, which it isn't, but because I thought we were actually going to be serious now. Only pay superstar wages to superstar performers. And top wages for top players. I don't think there is one player in our squad who merits 200K, certainly not 250K, and nowhere near 300K.

How much is Garnacho on now? How much will Amad get? And how much does Mainoo earn? I don't want us to ruin these players when they're young and hungry. As so many have said, so often, these contracts need to be heavily incentivised, collectively more than individually, so win bonuses, trophy bonuses, etc. and reign in the base salaries.
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We constantly bemoan the ten hag era but its been happening for far longer than him,solskaer,mourinho and in particular van gaal,letting managers behave like kids in a sweet shop,we hark back to the SAF days but we need to go back to the david Gill days when fergie was told NO,I'm not suggesting amorim should be told no cause it's obvious he can't be, but in all likelihood most of the current squad will still be there next year and he needs to cut his cloth accordingly.3-4-3 ISNT GUNNER work with this lot,time for a few 1-0 wins and get some respect back if not only for the fans
 
2 man midfield said:
Give Mainoo the wage he deserves, he was our best midfielder last year at 18. Makes no sense to be earning 5k or whatever he was on.

Garnacho though? If he doesn’t want to extend I won’t lose any sleep.
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Mainoo's contract runs through 2027 with a +1 option that the club can exercise. There is no need to give him a new contract anytime soon.
 
Bastian said:
There's security there, but if we cannot agree deals, and Mainoo is on something well below what he merits, it's not a good situation.

I'm editing the OP to add players I forgot, di Maria being one, cheers.
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Agreed regarding Mainoo.

You're welcome.

EDIT: Unsure if applicable to the thread but Bastian Schweinsteiger was also on 250K. Banned from training by Mourinho apparently. Another expensive failure.
 
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Waynne said:
Agreed regarding Mainoo.

You're welcome.

EDIT: Unsure if applicable to the thread but Bastian Schweinsteiger was also on 250K. Banned from training by Mourinho apparently. Another expensive failure.
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I've counted 3 occasions in the last 5 games where he's given the ball away that have led to conceded goals,not singling him our cause others are culparale aswell,let's see a desire to get the ball back ie keane/Robson vidic and stop looking around like it isn't your fault,ull b paid what your worth simple as!
 
Waynne said:
Agreed regarding Mainoo.

You're welcome.

EDIT: Unsure if applicable to the thread but Bastian Schweinsteiger was also on 250K. Banned from training by Mourinho apparently. Another expensive failure.
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Updated.
 
Waynne said:
Sorry I've only noticed now but Alexis Sanchez should be at the top of this list. 560K per week with 45 appearances and only 5 goals. The stuff of nightmares.
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He's there, 450K. Most reports say 400-450K.
 
Bastian said:


I'd hope if that's true it's because we are being less reckless and trying to incentivise their deals and producing year by year increases rather than giving them something crazy like we did for Rashford at 21.
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Almost all of the contracts in first post were when Glazers running football matters, Mainoo and Garnacho have got ages left and … it’s a Daily Mail piece.

List the players bought since Ratcliffe took control.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Agree. Neither of them are essential to have in the squad going forward. If they demand more than they are worth, so be it.
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I reiterate it's not all about mainoo,there ARE others,but look at casimero,he had a nightmare against Liverpool but showed a desire when back in,he's on far more than he should be but try's when given the chance.bruno our captain has been sent off 3 times already,the latest for a stupid foul on the edge of the wolves area.we fans do ask a lot because we've been spoilt in the past but we'll forgive if you try regardless of your wage,you play for man utd for feck sak!
 
United need to stop paying CL level wages to players that can’t even qualify for the competition.

Garnacho and Mainoo should be used minimally and be paid like kids in the first team squad…which is what they are.

Once Rashford, Casemiro and Maguire leave the contract problem will begin to look more controlled.

As long as the incomings and renewals are sensible.
 
I'm always a bit surprised we don't have more structure to how we approach player wages, something similar to how corporate companies have job levels which relate to set salary bands. This way players know where they stand and they have a clear progression pathway, whilst the club stays within its limits.

Below is a quick example of what a structure could look like with the respective earnings for each level. I then gave an example of where I would personally put the current 1st team players based on their age and reputation / importance (as doing it on the squad's performances as of right now wouldn't be very useful or realistic representation).

Youth Levels:

1 - Academy Graduate - £1k
2 - Established Academy Player - £5k
3 - Emerging Star - £10k (eg. Harry Amass / Chido Obi-Martin)

Senior Levels:
1 - Prospect 1 - £20k (eg. Wheatley / Collyer)
2 - Prospect 2 / Back-up - £50k (eg. Mainoo / Garnacho / Yoro - Evans / Bayindir)
3 - Squad Player 1 - £75k (eg. Malacia)
4 - Squad Player 2 - £90k (eg. Zirkzee / Lindelof)
5 - Regular 1 - £100k (eg. Hojlund / Amad / Antony)
6 - Regular 2 - £120k (eg. Onana, Maguire, Eriksen)
7 - Senior 1 - £150k (eg. Martinez, Mount, Luke Shaw, Ugarte, Mazraoui)
8 - Senior 2 - £175k (eg. Casemiro / De Ligt)
9 - Senior 3 - £200k (eg. Rashford / Fernandes)
10 - Star - £250k (eg. NONE)


I also think moving towards a more performance-related compensation structure is key (I think this is something we have started to try to move to with new signings and something Chelsea have been doing under their new ownership). I work in sales where 50% of my total expected compensation per year is my base salary, and the other 50% is commission/bonus if I hit my targets. If we brought in a generous bonus structure for players so that on top of their salary, players could earn up to double this based on their individual and team performances, I think we could still attract top players.

For example - a senior player like Rashford earns £10.5m per year (from his base salary of 200k pw) but has the potential to earn up to £21m per year if lets say he gets 50 goals / assists in all comps and we win the team wins 1 top trophy (CL or Prem) and 1 mid trophy (FA Cup or League Cup). There could then be additional earnings for going beyond this (in sales these are called accelerators), eg. we win the Treble.

Not all clubs could get away with a structure like this, as they risk other team's easily coming in and poaching their players with higher salaries. But this would still keep us close to the likes of City and Liverpool and we're still the undisputed biggest club in the country and probably 3rd in the world, so very few clubs could tempt our players away with higher salaries. It may put us out of reach from your Mbappe's, but in all honesty I think we're better off building a high functioning team rather than a group of galacticos.

I also think we should try to handle contract negotiations in a more structured way. Reviewing contracts on a set cadence (eg. January and June), allowing a player to move up a max two-levels per new contract, and requiring 18 months of meeting a minimum performance level in their individual targets to be considered to move up a level (or two). This would hopefully stop premature extensions or high salaries being given out to players having a good spell or season, for example, Rashford in ETH's 1st season.

All of this is easier said than done, but it feels like a sensible approach that given Sir Jim's corporate background, he might well consider.
 
daba said:
I'm always a bit surprised we don't have more structure to how we approach player wages, something similar to how corporate companies have job levels which relate to set salary bands. This way players know where they stand and they have a clear progression pathway, whilst the club stays within its limits.

Below is a quick example of what a structure could look like with the respective earnings for each level. I then gave an example of where I would personally put the current 1st team players based on their age and reputation / importance (as doing it on the squad's performances as of right now wouldn't be very useful or realistic representation).

Youth Levels:

1 - Academy Graduate - £1k
2 - Established Academy Player - £5k
3 - Emerging Star - £10k (eg. Harry Amass / Chido Obi-Martin)

Senior Levels:
1 - Prospect 1 - £20k (eg. Wheatley / Collyer)
2 - Prospect 2 / Back-up - £50k (eg. Mainoo / Garnacho / Yoro - Evans / Bayindir)
3 - Squad Player 1 - £75k (eg. Malacia)
4 - Squad Player 2 - £90k (eg. Zirkzee / Lindelof)
5 - Regular 1 - £100k (eg. Hojlund / Amad / Antony)
6 - Regular 2 - £120k (eg. Onana, Maguire, Eriksen)
7 - Senior 1 - £150k (eg. Martinez, Mount, Luke Shaw, Ugarte, Mazraoui)
8 - Senior 2 - £175k (eg. Casemiro / De Ligt)
9 - Senior 3 - £200k (eg. Rashford / Fernandes)
10 - Star - £250k (eg. NONE)


I also think moving towards a more performance-related compensation structure is key (I think this is something we have started to try to move to with new signings and something Chelsea have been doing under their new ownership). I work in sales where 50% of my total expected compensation per year is my base salary, and the other 50% is commission/bonus if I hit my targets. If we brought in a generous bonus structure for players so that on top of their salary, players could earn up to double this based on their individual and team performances, I think we could still attract top players.

For example - a senior player like Rashford earns £10.5m per year (from his base salary of 200k pw) but has the potential to earn up to £21m per year if lets say he gets 50 goals / assists in all comps and we win the team wins 1 top trophy (CL or Prem) and 1 mid trophy (FA Cup or League Cup). There could then be additional earnings for going beyond this (in sales these are called accelerators), eg. we win the Treble.

Not all clubs could get away with a structure like this, as they risk other team's easily coming in and poaching their players with higher salaries. But this would still keep us close to the likes of City and Liverpool and we're still the undisputed biggest club in the country and probably 3rd in the world, so very few clubs could tempt our players away with higher salaries. It may put us out of reach from your Mbappe's, but in all honesty I think we're better off building a high functioning team rather than a group of galacticos.

I also think we should try to handle contract negotiations in a more structured way. Reviewing contracts on a set cadence (eg. January and June), allowing a player to move up a max two-levels per new contract, and requiring 18 months of meeting a minimum performance level in their individual targets to be considered to move up a level (or two). This would hopefully stop premature extensions or high salaries being given out to players having a good spell or season, for example, Rashford in ETH's 1st season.

All of this is easier said than done, but it feels like a sensible approach that given Sir Jim's corporate background, he might well consider.
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Spot on
 
Both have done feck all at the club really but they have potential and they are teenagers.
If they are money hungry already then I have absolutely no issue in them chasing their dream elsewhere.
 
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