United vs Chelsea Youth Talent

Rojofiam

Full Member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
6,475
Oh they're a disaster for sure. But they are currently better than us at playing football and have a much younger group than we do. So I'm not sure by what metric anyone can claim we are closer to challenging for top 4 when it is very likely they will this season, while again, for us to stand a chance we have to change our manager.

I think these claims are debatable at the very least.

Palmer is a special player, but overall, I wouldn't swap our U23 core for theirs. It's also likely that at least half of their best young players won't fulfill their potential in what has been such a bad environment for young players in the last 2 years.
 
I think these claims are debatable at the very least.

Palmer is a special player, but overall, I wouldn't swap our U23 core for theirs. It's also likely that at least half of their best young players won't fulfill their potential in what has been such a bad environment for young players in the last 2 years.

Its obviously pointless for me to say "I'd prefer our U23s" but I do think most neutrals would agree.

Jackson
Enzo
Caicedo
Fofana
Colwill
Palmer
Madueke
Gusto

Or
Manoo
Yoro
Garnacho
Rasmus
Diallo
Zirkzee
Collyer
Ugarte.

Some very good players in both groups of course.
 
I think these claims are debatable at the very least.

Palmer is a special player, but overall, I wouldn't swap our U23 core for theirs. It's also likely that at least half of their best young players won't fulfill their potential in what has been such a bad environment for young players in the last 2 years.
I wouldn't swap the few players but when you look at it, the only real "special talents" we have who I wouldn't dare swap would be the trio of Garnacho, Mainoo and Amad. Probably Yoro too but he's very much an unknown quality. Go through the rest of our team and we have good players of course, but I think only really Dalot and De Ligt are safe in their spots long term. Others will probably join, but they've got to prove themselves, develop themselves etc. And let's not pretend like we haven't ruined loads of elite talents over the past decade. Generally though their overall squad is younger than ours if you look at the age of the group.

I'm optimistic for the future. I genuinely think we will win the title before Chelsea do. Just currently we are behind them, even if in my opinion it's because of the manager..
 
Its obviously pointless for me to say "I'd prefer our U23s" but I do think most neutrals would agree.

Jackson
Enzo
Caicedo
Fofana
Colwill
Palmer
Madueke
Gusto

Or
Manoo
Yoro
Garnacho
Rasmus
Diallo
Zirkzee
Collyer
Ugarte.

Some very good players in both groups of course.

How would you rank all of them? I would assume that Chelsea fans put Palmer at one and United fans will put Mainoo at one.
 
How would you rank all of them? I would assume that Chelsea fans put Palmer at one and United fans will put Mainoo at one.
Now that's a fun game. To kill some time en route to Manchester, I've settled for this as my ranking:

Palmer
Mainoo
Garnacho
Caicedo
Yoro
Gusto
Jackson
Ugarte
Amad
Rasmus
Colwill
Madueke
Zirkzee
Enzo
Fofana
Collyer
 
I wouldn't swap the few players but when you look at it, the only real "special talents" we have who I wouldn't dare swap would be the trio of Garnacho, Mainoo and Amad. Probably Yoro too but he's very much an unknown quality. Go through the rest of our team and we have good players of course, but I think only really Dalot and De Ligt are safe in their spots long term. Others will probably join, but they've got to prove themselves, develop themselves etc. And let's not pretend like we haven't ruined loads of elite talents over the past decade. Generally though their overall squad is younger than ours if you look at the age of the group.

I'm optimistic for the future. I genuinely think we will win the title before Chelsea do. Just currently we are behind them, even if in my opinion it's because of the manager..

That's fair. ETH might very well be holding us back, but I want to see how the next 1-2 months play out, for both us and Chelsea, before drawing conclusions like that.

I strongly disagree on Yoro being unknown quality. His quality is very obvious, and we just need to make sure his development goes as it should. We have ruined a lot of talents and great players, you are sadly spot on about that.
 
Its obviously pointless for me to say "I'd prefer our U23s" but I do think most neutrals would agree.

Jackson
Enzo
Caicedo
Fofana
Colwill
Palmer
Madueke
Gusto

Or
Manoo
Yoro
Garnacho
Rasmus
Diallo
Zirkzee
Collyer
Ugarte.

Some very good players in both groups of course.
Most neutrals hate United far more than Chelsea, so it's also kinda pointless. I don't think there's much between those groups in terms of talent. Our best prospects (Mainoo, Garnacho, Yoro) are also quite a few years younger.
 
Its obviously pointless for me to say "I'd prefer our U23s" but I do think most neutrals would agree.

Jackson
Enzo
Caicedo
Fofana
Colwill
Palmer
Madueke
Gusto

Or
Manoo
Yoro
Garnacho
Rasmus
Diallo
Zirkzee
Collyer
Ugarte.

Some very good players in both groups of course.
I’d honestly probably swap our u23 for Chelsea’s, just. Palmer tips it, I also rate Colwill, Caicedo and Gusto to be on the verge of world class potential. We’ve got Mainoo and Yoro in that category, with Garnacho slightly behind them.

The difference is even bigger in attack - vast majority of football fans would take Jackson, Palmer, Fofana and Madueke over Hojlund, Zirkzee, Diallo and Garnacho
 
Hasn’t Yoro played literally 1 PL match for United? Feels kinda silly for everyone to be speaking of him so highly already.
 
Its obviously pointless for me to say "I'd prefer our U23s" but I do think most neutrals would agree.

Jackson
Enzo
Caicedo
Fofana
Colwill
Palmer
Madueke
Gusto

Or
Manoo
Yoro
Garnacho
Rasmus
Diallo
Zirkzee
Collyer
Ugarte.

Some very good players in both groups of course.
The price differential between those two groups is staggering.
 
He hasn’t played competitively for us yet.

He's played zero times for Man United.

We have a lot of people who watched a lot of Lille last season it seems.
Well, there you go. I thought I remembered him getting his injury in the first PL match.

People already speaking about him like he’s a top class, established player. Seems very premature.
 

I'm kidding of course. Man United have some fantastic young talent I would love at Chelsea (Mainoo and Garnacho specifically).

Chelsea have a ridiculous amount of young talent though, because we've spent eleventy billion quid on them. The likes of Andrey Santos, Kendry and Estevao Willian are three incredible talents and aren't even on that list.
 
Estevão in particular is being described as the biggest South American/Brazilian talent since Neymar burst onto the scene and caught everyone’s attention at Santos. Kendry Paez is balling out too and is a regular starter for Ecuador at age 17.

We’ve got some ludicrous young talent on our books.
 
I'm kidding of course. Man United have some fantastic young talent I would love at Chelsea (Mainoo and Garnacho specifically).

Chelsea have a ridiculous amount of young talent though, because we've spent eleventy billion quid on them. The likes of Andrey Santos, Kendy and Estevao Willian are three incredible talents and aren't even on that list.
Yeah, the quality you folks have in your squad is crazy. Have to say I was very dubious about the new manager but it's been a really good start. Going to be a very competitive title hunt this year... I'm just delighted that we won't have that stress in our lives this year. DELIGHTED I TELL YOU.
 
Estevão in particular is being described as the biggest South American/Brazilian talent since Neymar burst onto the scene and caught everyone’s attention at Santos. Kendry Paez is balling out too and is a regular starter for Ecuador at age 17.

We’ve got some ludicrous young talent on our books.
So you already have a Palmer replacement when he eventually joins his boyhood club. Good for you:p
 
Well, I said it's our footballing project as a whole that has a better future than yours. Regarding the two teams' performances on the pitch, it's too early to draw conclusions.

I feel like we didn't get what we deserved in the Brighton and Palace games, whereas the result may have flattered Chelsea a bit in some of your games.

But it's still just a 5-6 game sample size. I don't think Chelsea are that better than us, if better at all tbh.
The only game we've got more than we deserved was Bournemouth, which was countered by the fact we smashed Palace but drew and deserved a draw vs City and lost.
 
Its obviously pointless for me to say "I'd prefer our U23s" but I do think most neutrals would agree.

Jackson
Enzo
Caicedo
Fofana
Colwill
Palmer
Madueke
Gusto

Or
Manoo
Yoro
Garnacho
Rasmus
Diallo
Zirkzee
Collyer
Ugarte.

Some very good players in both groups of course.

Both are very promising groups of players, but I think the level of talent and rarity of profile United would have trouble finding and/or attaining, that Chelsea already have in their U23 group, is only Palmer. And that's because he's not only one of the best right wingers on the planet, which is an unsolved position for us arguably since Ronaldo left in 2009, but also because he would be a great long-term replacement for Bruno at #10, or a great right-sided #8 in a 4-3-3.

The others are promising, and some of them pretty good already, but the talent pool in their position/profile isn't scarce. i.e your centre backs in Fofana, Badiashile and Colwill, or your double-pivot DMs like Caicedo and Lavia. Or how Gusto is really good, but United don't really need a right-back right now.

With United, I feel that Mainoo, Yoro, and Hojlund are all rarer and therefore more valuable profiles that we would have trouble replacing if it came to that. Potentially Garnacho as well, but I'm not sure what to expect from him and he often confuses me regarding what his potential ceiling might be. Overall I don't think he's as talented as the other 3.

Mainoo is one of the best midfield talents in the world, and most of the similarly elite talents in his position and age group are already playing for other top clubs (Zaire-Emery, Neves, Bajcetic, Bergvall, Gray, dare I say even the likes of Camavinga, Tchouaméni, Gavi, Pedri, etc. (although I listed different types of players here and Mainoo is arguably inferior to some of them)), and are therefore unattainable. Wharton, another elite talent and rare profile, will get snapped up by a big club soon as well, hopefully us.

I consider Hojlund one of the only U23 strikers in the world that have a 30+ goal/season threat in them. The others that come to mind are Endrick, Ferguson, Omorodion, and Sesko, but I might be forgetting some players. With Endrick and Hojlund already playing for "final destination" level clubs, the talent pool gets even smaller. And yes, I do rate Hojlund higher than Jackson, but his stocks are fairly low now, so I know not many will agree with me on this.

Yoro is probably the biggest CB prospect football has seen since van Dijk himself, with arguably only Saliba being similarly talented to him as a teenager, in the last few years.

Also, I see you mention Estevao and Páez in another post of yours. Two outstanding talents without a doubt, they'll probably surprise a lot of people, but it brings up another issue for me. Where is the pathway for all these talented players? Just looking at the right wing position, you're gonna have the two South American kids turning 18 before the start of next season, on top of Madueke, Neto, and Palmer, who can all play there. Yes, some of them can play other positions too, but how can you give all 5 of them enough playtime? And then, if Neto plays left winger for example, then you'll have Sancho, Mudryk, and Félix all sharing the remaining minutes? You need depth, but this is way too much of it IMO. Estevao, Paez, Palmer, Neto, Madueke, Mudryk, Sancho, Félix, Nkunku for 3 positions? And that's before another spending spree that might happen in January/next summer?
 
Last edited:
Also, I see you mention Estevao and Páez in another post of yours. Two outstanding talents without a doubt, they'll probably surprise a lot of people, but it brings up another issue for me. Where is the pathway for all these talented players? Just looking at the right wing position, you're gonna have the two South American kids turning 18 before the start of next season, on top of Madueke, Neto, and Palmer, who can all play there. Yes, some of them can play other positions too, but how can you give all 5 of them enough playtime? And then, if Neto plays left winger for example, then you'll have Sancho, Mudryk, and Félix all sharing the remaining minutes? You need depth, but this is way too much of it IMO. Estevao, Paez, Palmer, Neto, Madueke, Mudryk, Sancho, Félix, Nkunku for 3 positions? And that's before another spending spree that might happen in January/next summer?

There isn't a pathway for all the young players we've signed to get into the side, that's never been the plan given the sheer numbers of players.

A few making it into the Chelsea side and a few being sold at enough of a profit to pay for the flops, that's the plan.

I don't particularly like it but it's wrong to say "they've never get all these players into the team" when that is obviously not the intention.
 
Your first paragraph says it all? This season we've played 8 games in all competitions, and there has actually been improvement on last season. And I consider last season to still be the Glazer era, which is why it's not irrelevant to me anyomre.

But don't get me wrong, the improvement on the pitch this season is not why I hold the opinion that we have a better project than you do. It's based on everything Ineos have done so far in less than a year.

I think INEOS are certainly more prudent given the way they are running the hierarchy but fantastic owners won't elevate what I'd consider in ETH to be a respectively poor manager.

Chelsea provisionally are in a better situation, they have a refined way of approaching games and as results have suggested have a good barometer in their performance levels.

The main reason why Erik will never exceed as United manager is because he's inconsistent both in his tactical accommodation and his in-game management. It's quite telling that the best string of results United amassed was in his first season when the team was playing a style that was conducive of elements of Ole / Mourinho's imprint, United have subsequently failed as a team to be anything other than a counter attacking outfit.
 
Both are very promising groups of players, but I think the level of talent and rarity of profile United would have trouble finding and/or attaining, that Chelsea already have in their U23 group, is only Palmer. And that's because he's not only one of the best right wingers on the planet, which is an unsolved position for us arguably since Ronaldo left in 2009, but also because he would be a great long-term replacement for Bruno at #10, or a great right-sided #8 in a 4-3-3.

The others are promising, and some of them pretty good already, but the talent pool in their position/profile isn't scarce. i.e your centre backs in Fofana, Badiashile and Colwill, or your double-pivot DMs like Caicedo and Lavia. Or how Gusto is really good, but United don't really need a right-back right now.

With United, I feel that Mainoo, Yoro, and Hojlund are all rarer and therefore more valuable profiles that we would have trouble replacing if it came to that. Potentially Garnacho as well, but I'm not sure what to expect from him and he often confuses me regarding what his potential ceiling might be. Overall I don't think he's as talented as the other 3.

Mainoo is one of the best midfield talents in the world, and most of the similarly elite talents in his position and age group are already playing for other top clubs (Zaire-Emery, Neves, Bajcetic, Bergvall, Gray, dare I say even the likes of Camavinga, Tchouaméni, Gavi, Pedri, etc. (although I listed different types of players here and Mainoo is arguably inferior to some of them)), and are therefore unattainable. Wharton, another elite talent and rare profile, will get snapped up by a big club soon as well, hopefully us.

I consider Hojlund one of the only U23 strikers in the world that have a 30+ goal/season threat in them. The others that come to mind are Endrick, Ferguson, Omorodion, and Sesko, but I might be forgetting some players. With Endrick and Hojlund already playing for "final destination" level clubs, the talent pool gets even smaller. And yes, I do rate Hojlund higher than Jackson, but his stocks are fairly low now, so I know not many will agree with me on this.

Yoro is probably the biggest CB prospect football has seen since van Dijk himself, with arguably only Saliba being similarly talented to him as a teenager, in the last few years.

Also, I see you mention Estevao and Páez in another post of yours. Two outstanding talents without a doubt, they'll probably surprise a lot of people, but it brings up another issue for me. Where is the pathway for all these talented players? Just looking at the right wing position, you're gonna have the two South American kids turning 18 before the start of next season, on top of Madueke, Neto, and Palmer, who can all play there. Yes, some of them can play other positions too, but how can you give all 5 of them enough playtime? And then, if Neto plays left winger for example, then you'll have Sancho, Mudryk, and Félix all sharing the remaining minutes? You need depth, but this is way too much of it IMO. Estevao, Paez, Palmer, Neto, Madueke, Mudryk, Sancho, Félix, Nkunku for 3 positions? And that's before another spending spree that might happen in January/next summer?
Good grief, save some Kool Aid for everyone else.

What on earth are you basing Hojlund hitting the 30 goal mark on? He took 38 shots in total last year in ~2100 league minutes.
 
Good grief, save some Kool Aid for everyone else.

What on earth are you basing Hojlund hitting the 30 goal mark on? He took 38 shots in total last year in ~2100 league minutes.

And still scored 10 goals? You're kind of boosting my argument :lol:
 
This becoming more and more of a widely accepted take is crazy :lol: I can guarantee you we are way closer to that than Chelsea

How can you guarantee it? We are as far from the top as we have been since 2013.

We most likely finish below Chelsea for the second consecutive season.
 
And still scored 10 goals? You're kind of boosting my argument :lol:
Not even a little bit; strikers don't all of a sudden start taking significantly more shots. Finishing is streakier and has more variance year over year; Hojlund has always rated extremely poorly in terms of shot volume.

He was 4th percentile of all strikers in top 5 leagues in shots per 90 last year.
 
Last edited:
Oh they're a disaster for sure. But they are currently better than us at playing football and have a much younger group than we do. So I'm not sure by what metric anyone can claim we are closer to challenging for top 4 when it is very likely they will this season, while again, for us to stand a chance we have to change our manager.
Yeah, their squad is starting to look a bit scary in attack. The thing they seem to have that people aren't seemingly realising is a depth and balance that has rarely been seen. For me, it reminds me of an American sports team in that they have a superstar - Palmer - then 2-3x worth of players for each position that can be rolled on/off depending on the situation. Even if they get a couple of big injuries - so long as it isn't Palmer - they'll be OK.
I think these claims are debatable at the very least.

Palmer is a special player, but overall, I wouldn't swap our U23 core for theirs. It's also likely that at least half of their best young players won't fulfill their potential in what has been such a bad environment for young players in the last 2 years.
Palmer is starting to look generational - although I need another full season before thinking that can really be attributed to him. His freedom in playing the game is something I thought had largely been coached out of the game. When watching the highlights of the Brighton game, his free kick wasn't even the thing that impressed him most, it was his though ball to Jackson were he sliced the team open with a first time chip over their defensive line. When he did that it literally looked like he was playing in his back garden. Last player I've seen doing stuff like with such nonchalanance was Ronaldinho.
 
Not even a little bit; strikers don't all of a sudden start taking significantly more shots. Finishing is streakier and has more variance year over year; Hojlund has always rated extremely poorly in terms of shot volume.

He was 4th percentile of all strikers in top 5 leagues in shots per 90 last year.

Well, Hojlund will do exactly that, when United collectively become better on the pitch. I don't think you realize how bad United were last season at providing Hojlund with service. 38 shots in 2171 minutes is abysmal, and says way more about the dysfunctional team itself, than it does about the striker isolated up front and barely getting any good chances created by his teammates. A good number of those 10 goals were created by Hojlund himself out of nothing as well, and in other competitions too.
 
Its obviously pointless for me to say "I'd prefer our U23s" but I do think most neutrals would agree.

Jackson
Enzo
Caicedo
Fofana
Colwill
Palmer
Madueke
Gusto

Or
Manoo
Yoro
Garnacho
Rasmus
Diallo
Zirkzee
Collyer
Ugarte.

Some very good players in both groups of course.
You could add Lavia and Chucky to that group.

Estevao and Paez as well for that matter.
 
There isn't a pathway for all the young players we've signed to get into the side, that's never been the plan given the sheer numbers of players.

A few making it into the Chelsea side and a few being sold at enough of a profit to pay for the flops, that's the plan.

I don't particularly like it but it's wrong to say "they've never get all these players into the team" when that is obviously not the intention.
It's not a bad plan and we've seen it over the last 10-15 years.
Talented players get to fetch decent amount of money to recoup what you paid for and generally you do well selling young players that didn't even start for you.

The only criticism I have is probably those long contracts on your books as the likes of Mudryk you will move harder and have to take a loss.

Other than that Chelsea more often than not recoup what they've paid and some.
 
Its obviously pointless for me to say "I'd prefer our U23s" but I do think most neutrals would agree.

Jackson
Enzo
Caicedo
Fofana
Colwill
Palmer
Madueke
Gusto

Or
Manoo
Yoro
Garnacho
Rasmus
Diallo
Zirkzee
Collyer
Ugarte.

Some very good players in both groups of course.
We should just combine clubs... easy