United trying to sign players who aren't eager to join

LawCharltonBest

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The players we will consider the best midfielders in the PL in 4 years time are out there now at the likes of Leverkusen and Bilbao. And they'd drive to Manchester themselves for the chance to join this club.

Why not identify and sign these players now rather than waste time and significantly more money on players who will one day be mentioned in the same breath as Pogba, Di Maria, Sanchez, Lukaku...?

Surely it only takes a 5 minute phone call to decide if a player wants to join your club.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
The players we will consider the best midfielders in the PL in 4 years time are out there now at the likes of Leverkusen and Bilbao. And they'd drive to Manchester themselves for the chance to join this club.

Why not identify and sign these players now rather than waste time and significantly more money on players who will one day be mentioned in the same breath as Pogba, Di Maria, Sanchez, Lukaku...?

Surely it only takes a 5 minute phone call to decide if a player wants to join your club.
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It's not that easy.

1. You cant guarantee they'll be good enough in 3 years time

2. The fans wont accept good players on bargain. Cue glazer cnut penny pinching

3. Our aim is 4th or above. Buying good players that are good but not good enough for 4th is moot.

4. They might want and we can get them quick. But if our top priority said yes we'd be left with surplus players bought out of panic

5. They'd want upgrade and not sideways contract.

6. Actual good players with talent wont want to join us at this rate and rightly so if they value their career. We're career killers at the moment.

7. It may be a punt for us. But for those involved it's their career. Why should ETH settle for 3rd best when he was given resources to get top gun. Would we give him leeway if his cheap signing failed him?

8. Good players you said in leverkusen etc might be good because of their already running well oiled system and may not be good in our fresh setup

9. Players you mentioned would be priced at premium at 40-50m when we comes knocking and they'd be overpriced for that amount.

And so many other reasons it's not as simple as you think.
 
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Nobody should be genuinely eager to join considering the state we're in. It's only natural to have hesitations. I would be more worried if a player was eager, that would be naive or unambitious.
 
Agreed with your general point but each situation should be weighed on their own merit. It depends on each player - every individual situation is different and we're not exactly the most attractive option out there atm - far from it.

ETH would know FDJ's mentality quite well and if Barca, say were forced to sell him, his character might mean that he will be here and give it his all to be here, even if we're not the supposed club of his dreams - contrary to the likes of AdM. As long as the pursuit doesn't mean: we don't spend all summer focusing on this 1 player, only to miss out on other targets; and/or spend on our entire budget and cannot fill any other slots in the squad. Neither of these seem to be the case here.

Rumors are that we've turned away from at least 4 players already because their background checks showed red flags - this is promising (if you were to believe it of course) and a sign that maybe things in our recruitment strategy are changing.
 
We need to sign players who are really excited and motivated to come and play for us. Agents touting players who want a pay increase or us scouting players who aren't interested is pointless and we should have learned from this over the years.
 
Jacob said:
Nobody should be genuinely eager to join considering the state we're in. It's only natural to have hesitations. I would be more worried if a player was eager, that would be naive or unambitious.
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Wait. No one should be eager to join United, play under Ten Hag, feature in the PL and display their skills in front of 75,000 people and one of the biggest fan bases in the world?

Most footballers dream of playing at the top level. Any hungry player with self confidence would jump at the chance. Those that might have reservations are those already at similar clubs (Frenkie for instance) or at clubs currently winning everything.
 
If De Jong is told by Barca they want to sell him and then he decides United is where he wants to go I think I’d be okay with that.
 
Whilst it very clearly happens all the time, isn't tapping up nominally against the rules?
 
TheReligion said:
Wait. No one should be eager to join United, play under Ten Hag, feature in the PL and display their skills in front of 75,000 people and one of the biggest fan bases in the world?

Most footballers dream of playing at the top level. Any hungry player with self confidence would jump at the chance. Those that might have reservations are those already at similar clubs (Frenkie for instance) or at clubs currently winning everything.
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And those are the players that will bring us back where we belong. Sure, taking a punt on Championship players can work out, and most would be keen to join for obvious reasons. It's the people we really want that are more inclined to say no.
 
TheReligion said:
Wait. No one should be eager to join United, play under Ten Hag, feature in the PL and display their skills in front of 75,000 people and one of the biggest fan bases in the world?

Most footballers dream of playing at the top level. Any hungry player with self confidence would jump at the chance. Those that might have reservations are those already at similar clubs (Frenkie for instance) or at clubs currently winning everything.
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Well said but the OP kind of points out that we should really be focusing on players at smaller clubs that will fully relish the jump up and not to be focusing on getting players to move sidewards or down for too much money.
 
Who in their right mind would be eager to join United? this isn’t the 00’s.

United can’t run away from the graft and coast on past glories. We definitely have to convince players to come on board and shouldn’t shy away from doing so. We are pretty bad these days. The game is the game.

We have bought plenty of “no name” players that turned out shit and remained “no name” players. If only “identifying” and developing talent was so easy
 
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Sky1981 said:
It's not that easy.

1. You cant guarantee they'll be good enough in 3 years time

2. The fans wont accept good players on bargain. Cue glazer cnut penny pinching

3. Our aim is 4th or above. Buying good players that are good but not good enough for 4th is moot.

4. They might want and we can get them quick. But if our top priority said yes we'd be left with surplus players bought out of panic

5. They'd want upgrade and not sideways contract.

6. Actual good players with talent wont want to join us at this rate and rightly so if they value their career. We're career killers at the moment.

And so many other reasons it's not as simple as you think.
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1. You cant guarantee they'll be good enough in 3 years time - All the other top clubs do it consistently. Every time they sign a player from these level of clubs you know they'll be successes and they are 90% of the time.

2. The fans wont accept good players on bargain. Cue glazer cnut penny pinching - Simply not true. Most fans are eager for United to move away from marquee signings and sign players with more hunger. You're acting like i mean players from Celtic.

3. Our aim is 4th or above. Buying good players that are good but not good enough for 4th is moot. - The players would be good enough. Just like when United signed players from Mexico, Uruguay and Russia for peanuts and won the league with them, because the scouting then was much better. These players get identified regularly enough by the clubs above us. We are rich and appealing enough to find them ourselves. Diaz cost Liverpool in January for under £40m. That should be the range, 30-40m. Can easily sign a title winning squad with players in that range, let alone 4th.

4. They might want and we can get them quick. But if our top priority said yes we'd be left with surplus players bought out of panic - Silly point. Again, United when they were successful and top clubs now don't necessarily sign the best players from other top clubs. They sign the best players to fill their system. Plenty of these around. Ten Hag did it with Ajax and turned them into one of the best CL teams.

5. They'd want upgrade and not sideways contract. - No problem with that. Better than paying Pogba 300k to fly to dubai every 2 months.

6. Actual good players with talent wont want to join us at this rate and rightly so if they value their career. We're career killers at the moment. - Another ridiculous point. We're a career killer mainly because we're signing players who don't want to join. Liverpool and Chelsea especially have had slumps and 6th and lower finishes in the last 10 years and it hasn't stopped them attracting players. United are very attractive. If they went for Diaz last summer for example, they'd have got him. But we don't identify these talents.
 
"Wanting to join" isn't a binary state, where you either do or you don't. Players may be intrigued by the manager, worried by the dressing room, put off by the weather, attracted by the profile of the club, satisfied with the pay but concerned at the lack of CL football. There are lots of factors that go into it. If a player doesn't want to join at all, then sure, don't sign them. But we can't limit ourselves only to players who are desperate to play for us and would consider no-one else.
 
I think he must have some interest or we wouldn't be pursuing it. I think if he's told by Barca they need to sell him he might change his mind. He'll know they see him as their most expendable player which is not great.

However if he doesn't want to come to us despite all that, then yeah don't chase it.
 
Jacob said:
Nobody should be genuinely eager to join considering the state we're in. It's only natural to have hesitations. I would be more worried if a player was eager, that would be naive or unambitious.
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Man, our fan base has been in one long funereal circlejerk since Sir Alex left.

Why did Klopp join Liverpool around 2015, considering their state at that time? Did he not have any ambition? If players and managers only joined clubs that were on the top, might as well shut down most clubs.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
1. You cant guarantee they'll be good enough in 3 years time - All the other top clubs do it consistently. Every time they sign a player from these level of clubs you know they'll be successes and they are 90% of the time.

2. The fans wont accept good players on bargain. Cue glazer cnut penny pinching - Simply not true. Most fans are eager for United to move away from marquee signings and sign players with more hunger.

3. Our aim is 4th or above. Buying good players that are good but not good enough for 4th is moot. - The players would be good enough. Just like when United signed players from Mexico, Uruguay and Russia for peanuts and won the league with them, because the scouting then was much better. These players get identified regularly enough by the clubs above us. We are rich and appealing enough to find them ourselves. Diaz cost Liverpool in January for under £40m. That should be the range, 30-40m. Can easily sign a title winning squad with players in that range, let alone 4th.

4. They might want and we can get them quick. But if our top priority said yes we'd be left with surplus players bought out of panic - Silly point. Again, United when they were successful and top clubs now don't necessarily sign the best players from other top clubs. They sign the best players to fill their system. Plenty of these around. Ten Hag did it with Ajax and turned them into one of the best CL teams.

5. They'd want upgrade and not sideways contract. - No problem with that. Better than paying Pogba 300k to fly to dubai every 2 months.

6. Actual good players with talent wont want to join us at this rate and rightly so if they value their career. We're career killers at the moment. - Another ridiculous point. We're a career killer mainly because we're signing players who don't want to join. Liverpool and Chelsea especially have had slumps and 6th and lower finishes in the last 10 years and it hasn't stopped them attracting players. United are very attractive. If they went for Diaz last summer for example, they'd have got him. But we don't identify these talents.
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1) Kepa, Lukaku, Werner to name a few unless you don’t include Chelsea as a big club. They don’t get 90% right. I could go on
 
History has proven, the only top players who want to play for us, are the ones who only come for a huge payday and holiday.
 
Basa1987 said:
Man, our fan base has been in one long funereal circlejerk since Sir Alex left.

Why did Klopp join Liverpool around 2015, considering their state at that time? Did he not have any ambition? If players and managers only joined clubs that were on the top, might as well shut down most clubs.
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Yeah I don’t get this myself

Some posters here are very narrow minded
 
Solius said:
I think he must have some interest or we wouldn't be pursuing it. I think if he's told by Barca they need to sell him he might change his mind. He'll know they see him as their most expendable player which is not great.

However if he doesn't want to come to us despite all that, then yeah don't chase it.
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You’d hope so but didn’t the club go after Fabregas (under Moyes) when it was clear to everyone that he had no interest and Barcelona weren’t going to sell?
 
choccy77 said:
History has proven, the only top players who want to play for us, are the ones who only come for a huge payday and holiday.
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Valid point. Not sure I would put RvP in that bracket but he is the last top player that joined us for what I believe were football reasons (the boy inside him screamed yes supposedly).
 
Jacob said:
Valid point. Not sure I would put RvP in that bracket but he is the last top player that joined us for what I believe were football reasons (the boy inside him screamed yes supposedly).
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Yeah, he said he wanted to play for Sir Alex and was furious he left after 1 season.
 
Any player who doesn't take some degree of convincing to join the club in our current state is either an idiot, lacks ambition or lacks self-belief. They're making a major career move, they shouldn't be blindly joining whichever big name club comes along without making sure the circumstances are correct.

Beyond that, you have to realise that 99% of footballers on the planet aren't at the club they'd most ideally like to be at. And most players who leave major clubs would ideally prefer to stay. And half the clubs in the biggest leagues are built around outcasts from better sides. The football industry depends on players like that being able to perform to the best of their abilities regardless.

We actually have a prime example of how this functions in De Gea. He obviously wanted to be at a different club given he agreed to join Madrid, a move that would have seen him return to him hometown, family and girlfriend. But when that fell through he pivoted to a new contract, 7+ years more at the club, putting in POTY performances that very season and likely going on to make more appearances for our club than any other goalkeeper. Because that's the life of a professional footballer.

I also wonder how eager the likes of Aguero and Silva would have been to join Man City were it not for the massive money they were offered. Yet those players won them titles, with nobody fretting if they were there for the right reasons.

It's a rather privileged POV to think we should be above those dynamics.

You need the players you sign to be highly professional and perform once they arrive. At that point why they came, whether they'd have ideally preferred to be somewhere else and how convincing them to join was is irrelavant.
 
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Jacob said:
Nobody should be genuinely eager to join considering the state we're in. It's only natural to have hesitations. I would be more worried if a player was eager, that would be naive or unambitious.
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I disagree. I get it we have been an utter shit show of late and fan confidence is at rock bottom. But let's not forget United are still a big attraction, even beyond the wages. Go back a few years ago when Liverpool was in the shit, you think United cannot turn this around? All of a sudden Spurs are some big draw club and players like Kulusevski wouldn't consider joining United? On the point of Spurs, they are almost as bad a circus as we are but for different reasons. If they can go from 9th (when Conte came in) to 4th, I don't see it beyond this team with a few additions to go from 6th to 4th or 3rd.

If anything I want players who DO want to come to United and say they want to be part of this project (Horrible footballing buzzword, apologies) and do want to be part of the future success of this club.
 
Ish said:
Yeah, that 90% ratio (I know it was a thumbsuck but man!) seems extremely wishful thinking.
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Liverpool have had the best hit rate in recruitment so far with only really Keita being a big money flop. That’s what’s got them close to City. City are probably about equal but then then have no issues with simply refinancing everything that doesn’t work out very quickly.

Every other club has has a fair share of mistakes.
 
Let's not forget that an average contract length takes up close to 30% of a players professional career. That is staggering. Anyone in their right frame of mind would be cautious joining a snake pit unless the money was a pulling factor.
 
I would usually agree, but in the case of De Jong, he'd be coming to play for a coach that can get the best out of him. He also doesn't come across as the type to down tools, I'd wager he'd be very professional.

At the end of the day United is on a downward slope, even our most diehard of fan thinks we're crap, you think players in the game don't think this as well. I'd be concerned more if he were enthusiastic to come with the state of things now.
 
Jacob said:
Let's not forget that an average contract length takes up close to 30% of a players professional career. That is staggering. Anyone in their right frame of mind would be cautious joining a snake pit unless the money was a pulling factor.
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So what’s the answer then?
 
Jacob said:
Nobody should be genuinely eager to join considering the state we're in. It's only natural to have hesitations. I would be more worried if a player was eager, that would be naive or unambitious.
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Especially if that player is well established at this point. Young players obviously will be eager to move to a club of our size but established CL players not being super gung ho about joining a full rebuild outside the CL isn’t some bad sign. Just a sign of where the club is at right now.
 
JJ12 said:
If De Jong is told by Barca they want to sell him and then he decides United is where he wants to go I think I’d be okay with that.
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What if he's told by Barca they want to sell, but he wants to go to a CL club... but Barca will only sell him to United because we offer the most money and he's basically forced to sign with us. Would it be ok then?
 
TheReligion said:
So what’s the answer then?
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Nailing the 'sum of all parts' notion with a proper manager with authority and clear ideas. At the core of the problem, there is a mismatch of mentality/style between players and the current manager ideas imo. If you can recruit willing players that match the manager's preferences over a couple of windows, I think we would be on good course to recover.
 
First of all, there's little reason why would a top player want to join United? We're at the very beginning of a rebuilding process, we're lingering in the Europa League and quite frankly we haven't been managed well for the past decade or so. A top player would want stability which include a top quality side that allow him to showcase his talent and help him win trophies. We lack that. The only players who would want to join us now are United fans, players who aren't good enough to be at a club like Manchester United and/or players who are in it for the money.

However there's also the political side of all this. Let's say that Frankie De Jong said that he want to leave Barca and join ETH's revolution. United might lowball the deal with Barca, which might lead to Barca refusing a deal and he ending up remaining there for another year. That's what happened to Sancho during our first attempt in signing him. How do you think that the Barcelona fans will take that insult? He chose a miserable United side who will be playing in the Europa League to their CL side.

To conclude we've tried everything under the sun (Galaticos, players with United DNA etc) and failed in everything we did. We had mercenaries of all shapes and sizes from homegrown talent (ex Pogba and Lingard) right to expensive big name signings (ex ADM). What we haven't tried yet is trying to buy PROFESSIONALS who can play in a successful system.
 
We need to move fast, and yet we are dragging a transfer for a player from a club who has a financial problem and actually has a replacement with high ceiling in place.
It seems like a transfer that can decided quickly, and yet here we are.

We also need signings in other areas. Maybe we should close some other deals first while Barca and FDJ made up their mind.
 
TheReligion said:
Liverpool have had the best hit rate in recruitment so far with only really Keita being a big money flop. That’s what’s got them close to City. City are probably about equal but then then have no issues with simply refinancing everything that doesn’t work out very quickly.

Every other club has has a fair share of mistakes.
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Yeah, agreed and I'd even argue that Klopp's system brings the best out of a lot of their players/signings etc.
 
You always need to convince players. Its not like 99 percent of players are wanting to join United even if they are fans. We even had a lot of work to convince players when Sir Alex was in charge - look at the whole Roy Keane saga. That took a lot of convincing. And thats exactly what we need to do now. Sell our club and project - and its not an easy sell I can tell you
 
FreakyJim said:
What if he's told by Barca they want to sell, but he wants to go to a CL club... but Barca will only sell him to United because we offer the most money and he's basically forced to sign with us. Would it be ok then?
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No, in that instance he can go elsewhere
 
Nothing wrong with having to convince players you want to join the club. They might be concerned about the project, the coach, the other players and hundreds of other things before signing on, especially when they are top talents wanted by a lot of clubs. This situation is really not comparable to a personal situation (which some people tend to compare with). These players are professionals and will want to succeed and play well. Terry was a United fan, but is a Chelsea legend. Similarly Ole with Liverpool and so on. Countless examples like this.

In fact, it’s a good thing if a player was asking about the project and path to success, since it shows that they are intent on winning things and not just collecting paychecks. At the end of the day, you cannot believe anything at face value and what the players say to the media. For all we know, they could tell you United is their dream club when they are just joining for the money. The only person who can assess this is the manager or the interviewer who talks to the player.
 
TheReligion said:
Wait. No one should be eager to join United, play under Ten Hag, feature in the PL and display their skills in front of 75,000 people and one of the biggest fan bases in the world?

Most footballers dream of playing at the top level. Any hungry player with self confidence would jump at the chance. Those that might have reservations are those already at similar clubs (Frenkie for instance) or at clubs currently winning everything.
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Exactly. Given that we're one of the biggest names in world football, the wages we pay, needing quality in many positions which could influence a player on his playing time and starting a new project under one of the most highly rated managers in Europe I think we could be quiet a draw for 99.99% of the players out there.

Thinking about it logically there's hardly any WC talent out there that's looking for a move (bar Haaland) so it's a new generation coming through which hopefully means we won't be paying astronomical wages for players supposedly in their prime and for nearly every single player out there United would be a massive step up for them. Part time player for Liverpool/City/Madrid/Barca or full time player for us if he's good enough?
 
LawCharltonBest said:
1. You cant guarantee they'll be good enough in 3 years time - All the other top clubs do it consistently. Every time they sign a player from these level of clubs you know they'll be successes and they are 90% of the time.

2. The fans wont accept good players on bargain. Cue glazer cnut penny pinching - Simply not true. Most fans are eager for United to move away from marquee signings and sign players with more hunger. You're acting like i mean players from Celtic.

3. Our aim is 4th or above. Buying good players that are good but not good enough for 4th is moot. - The players would be good enough. Just like when United signed players from Mexico, Uruguay and Russia for peanuts and won the league with them, because the scouting then was much better. These players get identified regularly enough by the clubs above us. We are rich and appealing enough to find them ourselves. Diaz cost Liverpool in January for under £40m. That should be the range, 30-40m. Can easily sign a title winning squad with players in that range, let alone 4th.

4. They might want and we can get them quick. But if our top priority said yes we'd be left with surplus players bought out of panic - Silly point. Again, United when they were successful and top clubs now don't necessarily sign the best players from other top clubs. They sign the best players to fill their system. Plenty of these around. Ten Hag did it with Ajax and turned them into one of the best CL teams.

5. They'd want upgrade and not sideways contract. - No problem with that. Better than paying Pogba 300k to fly to dubai every 2 months.

6. Actual good players with talent wont want to join us at this rate and rightly so if they value their career. We're career killers at the moment. - Another ridiculous point. We're a career killer mainly because we're signing players who don't want to join. Liverpool and Chelsea especially have had slumps and 6th and lower finishes in the last 10 years and it hasn't stopped them attracting players. United are very attractive. If they went for Diaz last summer for example, they'd have got him. But we don't identify these talents.
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This is not FM.
 
TsuWave said:
Who in their right mind would be eager to join United? this isn’t the 00’s.

United can’t run away from the graft and coast on past glories. We definitely have to convince players to come on board and shouldn’t shy away from doing so. We are pretty bad these days. The game is the game.

We have bought plenty of “no name” players that turned out shit and remained “no name” players. If only “identifying” and developing talent was so easy
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Pretty much any player who is at a lesser club!? Which is about 99% of clubs?
 
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