United have solved nothing this summer

Rory 7

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While the signing of Rio is obviously great for the club, we have done very little to really address the defensive frailties that have plagued us over the last two/three years.

Last season was a watershed for us defensively and should have been the catalyst to spark off several signings. Instead we have put all our eggs in one big name basket and, already, we see how big a gamble that is when the lad is injured. Especially when Gaz Nev is also injured.

In Rio and Gaz's absence -

Larry is the only proven first choice centre half (would not get into Pool or Arse team).
Wes had a nightmare last season and it is questionable if he will ever be a centre half.
O'Shea is unrpoven but has potential.
Phil has his limitations and it never first choice.
Micky has improved but is very inconsistent.


Which leaves us with only five defenders, all of whom have clear weaknesses. All of which means we have solved very little this close season and could be in for a very disappointing campaign. :( Hope I'm wrong but I think we've fecked up this summer :(
 
Be positive Rory

First of all, I reckon this Escude deal will come through

And Sir Alex is right to give Wes and O'Shea a chance to prove themselves. Yes, they are inexperienced, but how are they supposed to gained experienced if they don't get games.

If we sign Escude, we will have enough cover in defence:

Right back:
1st choice: Gary Neville
Back-up: Wes and Phil

Left back:
1st choice: Silvestre
Back-up: Escude and Phil

CB's:
1st choice: Blanc and Rio
Back-up: O'Shea, Wes and Neville

The defensive shambles last year was as much the team as a whole, as the individual defenders' fault. Give the back-four protection, and they will be fine.
 
I hope O'Shea gets more of a chance this year.
 
I agree that both O'Shea and Wes should be given the chance to prove themselves. The signing of Escude should put more pressure on Sil to perform. And Gaz is proven at right back. But just imagine if Blanc had picked up a knock against Boca. Our back four would read:

Phil - Wes - O'Shea - Sil

I don't think that would be particularly strong going into a vital Champion's League qualifier. Plus we wouldn't even have a decent sub on the bench.

I just would like to see more back-up in the squad. Although I'm sure Fergie would as well.
 
We've signed Escude for £4.3m it seems.

Brown did not have a nightmare season, other than getting another injury. He had a lot of great games, and some which Barthez was at fault for, and even after his injury he came straight back into the first team, did well, and got into the England squad for the WC. Blanc has improved over the course of last season, though I'm not impressed by him in pre-season, I think it takes him time to get up to fitness at that age. O'Shea has been quality every time he's played, but you wonder how he'll fare against trickier strikers, or harder teams - not that he's given any cause for doubt yet. The only thing I'm not happy about is that we didn't get Rustu Recber. But while Barthez is out with another injury, Roy Carroll is making the most of his opportunity.
 
Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>
I just would like to see more back-up in the squad. Although I'm sure Fergie would as well.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I'm sure Sir Alex does

But who else have got any more back-up than what I've listed above. It's no point buying a CB to be 5fth choice.
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Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>


I'm sure Sir Alex does

But who else have got any more back-up than what I've listed above. It's no point buying a CB to be 5fth choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Pool have a lot more choice at the back IMO.
RF - Xavier/Babbel/Carragher
Centre - Hypia/Henchoz/Xavier
LF - Riise/Traore/Carragher

Okay, I'm talking shite a bit but Longballpool have more proven/consistent players in every position. We don't really do we?
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Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong> The only thing I'm not happy about is that we didn't get Rustu Recber. But while Barthez is out with another injury, Roy Carroll is making the most of his opportunity.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I honestly don't think Recber is any better than Fab

Both good shot stoppers, but prone to feck-ups. I wasn't impressed with Recber's handling in the WC
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Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

I honestly don't think Recber is any better than Fab

Both good shot stoppers, but prone to feck-ups. I wasn't impressed with Recber's handling in the WC</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed.
If Barthez takes himself a bit more seriously this season he'll be alright.
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Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>

Pool have a lot more choice at the back IMO.
RF - Xavier/Babbel/Carragher
Centre - Hypia/Henchoz/Xavier
LF - Riise/Traore/Carragher

</strong><hr></blockquote>

RF - Neville/Brown/Neville
Centre - Blanc/Rio/Brown/O'Shea
LF - Silvestre/(Escude)/Neville
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Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

RF - Neville/Brown/Neville
Centre - Blanc/Rio/Brown/O'Shea
LF - Silvestre/(Escude)/Neville</strong><hr></blockquote>

As I say, I'm talking shite a bit ;)
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I have to agree with Rory 7 - I felt we had put all our eggs in one basket with the Rio purchase, & breaking the bank with that signing means we can't really sign any more players for this season. ( I wonder whether the Escude deal has gone through? )

Besides the central defensive position, we are lacking a left-sided cover & another striker but without the money in our coffers....
 
Originally posted by kkcbl:
<strong> but without the money in our coffers....</strong><hr></blockquote>

But the money IS in the coffers - why else has Escude and Gudjohnsen been pursued in recent weeks?

It's just a question to get the right players for the right price
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Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>

As I say, I'm talking shite a bit ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

No your not unfortunately. Liverpoo are far better at the back. We have a better midfield, and when/if Owen is fit and flying its close up front between the two.

'Trying' to be unbiased, I'd still rather watch a team that bases its football on attack rather than defence - will you admit the same?
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Panic on the streets of Manchester! To paraphrase that loveable lad Moz - true Red Devil.

But seriously, why are people writing off the defence? Sure I pray Rio recovers quickly but when I look at the MU defence I see the likes of -

Mickey Silvestre - a young defender who can attack, too. Not at all bad to have in your team -if he can keep his mouth shut and not make it a case of Sir Alex taking him seriously this time and selling him.

Phil Neville - sure Phil has his limitations but look at the pluses. He is very experienced for his age, he is a Red Devil through and through, and if he is given his opportunity this season I for one will not be surprised to see him grasp it firmly and surprise his detractors. Maybe this year he will prove he is more than a squad player and useful back-up.

Wesley Brown - chins up about Wes Brown. How old is the lad for heavens` sake? He was in an under-performing team last year that leaked goals because of the poor play of a number of different positional players. Wes will come back and prove his detractors wrong if given the chance.

John O` Shea - Fergie, Fergie keep him for heavens` sake and give him the run in the team that was denied to other youngsters. This lad and Wes could come into their own this season. Like Wes, fantastic potential but still learning.

Laurent Blanc - quick footballing brain and great reading of the game, not to mention years of experience. Vive Larry White!

So let`s not predict doom and gloom without giving our defenders the opportunity to show what they are made of. And what they are made of is rather good, I think.
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
I have no complaints about our centre back slots, Blanc, Rio, Brown, Gary, O'Shea is as strong as you will find anywhere imo. Our full backs were a greater cause of trouble last season, whether it be Gary playing people on side, or Silvestre coming inside too much (still doing that in pre-season), it was where teams exploited us. Escude will challenge Micky for that spot, and hopefully make him defend better or lose his place. Shame we didn't get Puyol, but it seems he's very greedy. Recber was clearly the second best goalie in the WC so you can't ask much more from him than that. Not sure if we'll get him next summer on a bosman or not.

Have you heard btw (in today's Sun) that we're having to get the Italian FA to get the Stam money, and that since they haven't got it (unless they sell Crespo or Nesta) then we won't get our money? You'd think it wouldn't be hard to do a deal involving Sorin as part payment, but it seems to have all broken down there.
 
Originally posted by giggsgirl:
<strong>Panic on the streets of Manchester! To paraphrase that loveable lad Moz </strong><hr></blockquote>

There's panic on the streets of Dublin, Dundee and Humberside too ;) .

Perhaps our one biggest weakness at the back is how young most of our defenders are. If we play Wes, John and Micky that is a relatively inexperienced trio. Although you would have to say bot Wes and Micky should be coming of age soon. The inexperienced excuse can't be used for much longer.
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Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Recber was clearly the second best goalie in the WC so you can't ask much more from him than that.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I can't ask more but I wouldn't sign him because of that either. A World Cup is nice, but it made him look better than he is throughout a season.
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Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

I can't ask more but I wouldn't sign him because of that either. A World Cup is nice, but it made him look better than he is throughout a season.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True, though we were linked with him before the WC too, and when you consider Barthez's last season...
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I was at the Turkey v Brazil match & I can tell you that if not for Rustu, Brazil would have swamped Turkey! ( Of course, I'd seen him play a few times prior to that as well! )

Only problem was that even if Rustu were willing to come, his wife has refused him permission to leave Turkey!

Just imagine, 6ft 2in, 76kg & brave enough to face & thwart the world's best strikers yet afraid of his missus! :eek:
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
True, though we were linked with him before the WC too, and when you consider Barthez's last season...</strong><hr></blockquote>

We've been linked with keepers from the moment Barthez started making mistakes. The fact remains: We signed none of them.

Anyhow, I get to watch Fenerbahce weekly and Rustu is good, but not that good. He's not better than our French nut.
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maybe his missis has more facial hair than him. oo thats a bit racist innit?
 
If Escude comes in we will have enough. With no Escude we will get by ok unless we're very unlucky. I always said we need two, but frankly we have bigger problems than defense.

Thank God our midfield reserves look good enough to hold the fort if we run into problems again like last year. Chadwick, Fortune, Djordic, Stewart, Pugh and maybe Richardson, Timms and Fletcher look capable of stepping in and frankly one of them should be given a chance as a rival for Giggs.

The same cant be said for strikers. We need a 4th striker badly or we will struggle to win a thing.

The ONLY way we can win anything with 3 strikers is if Forlan starts to score regularly(15 goals min), Scholes gets his usual 10 and Veron really inspires. Last year we overperformed, Beckham with 16 goals again? Ruud and maybe even Ole will struggle to repeat last seasons antics.

We need that no.9.
 
Unless you have to good FBs capable of playing in midfield, you will struggle. We have one. Silvestre. Brazil have two. Cafu and Roberto Carlos. If we had those two, we'd have no weaknesses. United have never taken the FB position as seriously as they should. Irwin was good in his prime. A player who could pass and get forward. Players like Dennis Irwin made our midfield better by the support he gave from his FB position. Silvestre is better a beating opponents, but is nowhere near the passer Irwin was in his day.

So, I'm disappointed that SAF signed a CB but agian failed to improve us at RB.
 
posted 13-08-2002 10:33
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Panic on the streets of Manchester! To paraphrase that loveable lad Moz - true Red Devil.
But seriously, why are people writing off the defence? Sure I pray Rio recovers quickly but when I look at the MU defence I see the likes of -

Mickey Silvestre - a young defender who can attack, too. Not at all bad to have in your team -if he can keep his mouth shut and not make it a case of Sir Alex taking him seriously this time and selling him.

Phil Neville - sure Phil has his limitations but look at the pluses. He is very experienced for his age, he is a Red Devil through and through, and if he is given his opportunity this season I for one will not be surprised to see him grasp it firmly and surprise his detractors. Maybe this year he will prove he is more than a squad player and useful back-up.

Wesley Brown - chins up about Wes Brown. How old is the lad for heavens` sake? He was in an under-performing team last year that leaked goals because of the poor play of a number of different positional players. Wes will come back and prove his detractors wrong if given the chance.

John O` Shea - Fergie, Fergie keep him for heavens` sake and give him the run in the team that was denied to other youngsters. This lad and Wes could come into their own this season. Like Wes, fantastic potential but still learning.

Laurent Blanc - quick footballing brain and great reading of the game, not to mention years of experience. Vive Larry White!

So let`s not predict doom and gloom without giving our defenders the opportunity to show what they are made of. And what they are made of is rather good, I think.
==================================================
Wes has experience, he's been involved for the last 3-4 seasons. Larry is over the hill, Silvestre is always good for a mistake and the Nevilles, well what can you say. You have to look at our defense (without Rio) and look at the Arse/Pool and think who of our players would get into their teams? Larry wouldn't, MS wouldn't, Wes wouldn't (look at Upson!), Phil wouldn't, Gaz might. I dont include JOS as he hasn't played enough games. We need to strenghten in-depth at the back in all positions.
 
In Rio and Gaz's absence -

Larry = Won the World Cup
Wes = England squad member and future first team.
O'Shea = International player and futre top player
Phil = Maybe on the way out?!
Micky = Plays for France

Nuff said.
 
Obviously the most urgent thing is to get a no.9. About the defence, yes we can't say that we have world class cover in every single position, but neither can any other clubs. Fact is that you need a steady back four, so it limits the quality of your backup players -- top players won't join us knowing that they will just be a backup.
 
fergie's confirmed that it is blanc and O'shea, tonight!!!!!

<img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> phew!!!!!!

i hope Wes stays at right back for a season.
 
There will always be alot of second guessing after a disapointing result. Is the formation wrong? Have some players lost the hunger? In my opinion United's system is not working, especially in the CL. Although a SF finish and 2 QF finishes in the last three years is not that bad, it certainly not good enough for Man. United.

In my opinion. Brazil's system makes the most sense. Three defenders who's primary role is to guard the middle. Two FBs/WBs to patrol the flanks. Two midfield to hold the fort. And finally three attacking players.

I think the three CBs system would work because it would allow Blanc to play a free role (Hell he does that already!). The other two would be responsible to man mark the opposing strikers when defending (we don't do this ATM because far to many opposing strikers are left free). The only problem I see is that Silvestre is the only FB capable of playing this type of FB since Irwin has left.
 
Originally posted by darko:
<strong>There will always be alot of second guessing after a disapointing result. Is the formation wrong? Have some players lost the hunger? In my opinion United's system is not working, especially in the CL. Although a SF finish and 2 QF finishes in the last three years is not that bad, it certainly not good enough for Man. United.

In my opinion. Brazil's system makes the most sense. Three defenders who's primary role is to guard the middle. Two FBs/WBs to patrol the flanks. Two midfield to hold the fort. And finally three attacking players.

I think the three CBs system would work because it would allow Blanc to play a free role (Hell he does that already!). The other two would be responsible to man mark the opposing strikers when defending (we don't do this ATM because far to many opposing strikers are left free). The only problem I see is that Silvestre is the only FB capable of playing this type of FB since Irwin has left.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This topic was orignally posted last week long before the Budapest game. But.........

Now that Wes is out for three months, theres no sign of Gaz being back and Rio is injured I think the point about only signing one player this summer becomes all the more clear. We've gambled big time on signing just one big name signing and we definitely need more options at the back.

I feel for Wes but maybe he's too delicate and will always be plagued by injury.
Larry is Larry.
O'Shea has potential.
Phil and Sil are far too inconsistent (no matter what anyone says about Mickey being the most improved player).

Lets face facts, we are as weak at the back this year as last year.
Possibly even weaker with no Irwin and Johnsen.
We've made a mess of the transfer system this summer!
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Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

RF - Neville/Brown/Neville
Centre - Blanc/Rio/Brown/O'Shea
LF - Silvestre/(Escude)/Neville</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not trying to cause any offence :p but I don't think Newcastle would take that lot, let alone Liverpool or Arsenal. Rory has a valid point, hard to swallow (like 'pool's over-reliance on the long ball game) but a valid one nonetheless.

Edited: Wouldn't take that lot except Rio (of course).
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Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>In Rio and Gaz's absence -

Larry = Won the World Cup
Wes = England squad member and future first team.
O'Shea = International player and futre top player
Phil = Maybe on the way out?!
Micky = Plays for France

Nuff said.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Put them together and you've got the Monkees (as witnessed last season, a few in preseason and the ZTA game). Much like my beloved team (LFC) still has monkeys in our midfield :mad:
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Originally posted by Dumpstar:
<strong>

Put them together and you've got the Monkees (as witnessed last season, a few in preseason and the ZTA game). Much like my beloved team (LFC) still has monkeys in our midfield :mad: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey, lay off the Monkees. They were the biggest thing in the world in their day. Crap, but the biggest thing in the world. Not many people make it that far.
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According to a news report I read today, SAF is still pursuing Escude, but also has one eye on Juan Pablo Sorin of Lazio, as an alternative for the left side of defence and indeed midfield (as he can play both positions)

Furthermore, SAF on MUTV stated, that he will sign a 4th striker in the near future. The candidates being mentioned are Crespo, Ronaldinho & Alberto Luque (who by the way has not signed for Deportivo, although there is strong interest from the northern Spanish club).

The sum total of the situation @ the moment is that given injuries and what not, SAF is having an emergency meeting with the board to discuss emergency transfer funds being made available and indeed a lot will hinge on the amount of money the board are willing to release after the £30m that has already been forked out for RIO!

Waiting with baited breath to see what happens.....
 
damn straight. why has this ronaldinho story again bobbed to the surface? where have you heard his name mentioned recently? and dont say fecking tribal football <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> i was of the impression this was a closed option. if he does leave PSG has anyone found any evidence other than he'd head straight for italy or spain? and the fee involved? for a player of that calibre i think the board and SAF would prefer to use the Lazio debt in some way.
much as the goggle eyed goofy-toothed pretty boy would get my vote, he is the player of all we are linked with who i just couldnt imagine wearing the shirt...
...i could however, imagane him dressed as Boy George, oddly... <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />
 
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