United and the dark arts

Bastian

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This is not a reaction to the match (missed the game).

I've thought for a long while that we need to be a lot more street wise, we've got two hot heads in Antony and Bruno, but in terms of the dark arts it's only really Casemiro who knows how to manage a game properly. Another thing that seems lacking to me is standing up for each other, by any means necessary. Martinez is certainly a fighter and Casemiro, again, fits that bill. But we're generally too meek as a team.

I've seen some lovely examples this season of Casemiro managing games by drawing a foul when he needs to slow down a game - Bruno does this at times, but he's so attack oriented that he often tries things when we're better off taking the sting out of a game. On the other hand as a club we've been on the receiving end of the dark arts more than I care to remember.

I hope the criteria for players includes how far they'll go to fight for a win and how smart they are in terms of overall team play.

People who have followed ETH's career, how have his teams displayed these qualities in the past?
 
We're amateurs when it comes to shithousery, and I have no doubt this naive approach contributes to our pathetic away record.
 
Although I do not disagree with the premise of the OP - we definitely lack this ability.

We also lack a feck ton of other abilities such as

1) game management,
2) controlling the tempo,
3) being imposing from the kick off

We often find ourselves having to scramble from falling behind, or victims of the other teams game management (in whichever form it comes in, shithousery included).

You can call it ruthlessness, or cutting edge but our game management is terrible. We hardly ever look in control for a full 90 minute game. Season after season we look like amateurs or as if we are fielding players who find the shirt too heavy.
 
Get In Scholesy said:
Although I do not disagree with the premise of the OP - we definitely lack this ability.

We also lack a feck ton of other abilities such as

1) game management,
2) controlling the tempo,
3) being imposing from the kick off

We often find ourselves having to scramble from falling behind, or victims of the other teams game management (in whichever form it comes in, shithousery included).

You can call it ruthlessness, or cutting edge but our game management is terrible. We hardly ever look in control for a full 90 minute game. Season after season we look like amateurs or as if we are fielding players who find the shirt too heavy.
Click to expand...
We do field a tonne of players who just aren’t cut out for the shirt. Barcelona and Madrid would do too with our owners.

End up with third and fourth choice players for the very best clubs. The very top up and coming players like Haaland for example didn’t wanna be here. it’s pretty obvious now.

Gravenbirch chose Bayern when he would walk into our side. He doesn’t get a game for them. Granted we haven’t had a deep lying playmaker either since Carrick retired.

That’s insane when we built our success with Scholes and Carrick as a platform in midfield. Went after Kroos, Fabregas and Thiago. De Jong… Got rejected. See a pattern here?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Get In Scholesy said:
We also lack a feck ton of other abilities such as

1) game management,
2) controlling the tempo,
3) being imposing from the kick off
Click to expand...
Hear hear. These are the real problems. 'Game management' covers shithousery, too, and a number of other things that all lead back to us being unable to maintain control of a football game. It's an issue of both game intelligence and technical ability.
 
In Jose's time, he was compiling a team full of these types of players.
Herrera was probably the epitome of that kind of player. Ibrahimovic, too. And how can I forget Fellaini...

IMO we need some ruthless players in the team who can do the nasty stuff. Sevilla perfectly demonstrated how a team (of lesser talented) players can beat a team of more talented players by sheer will, desire and shithousery.
I happen to like players who are well-versed in the dark arts.
 
sunama said:
In Jose's time, he was compiling a team full of these types of players.
Herrera was probably the epitome of that kind of player. Ibrahimovic, too. And how can I forget Fellaini...

IMO we need some ruthless players in the team who can do the nasty stuff. Sevilla perfectly demonstrated how a team (of lesser talented) players can beat a team of more talented players by sheer will, desire and shithousery.
I happen to like players who are well-versed in the dark arts.
Click to expand...

Yeah Fernandinho was the absolute master of shithousery at City from 2013-2022
 
Game management is a good term for it. Even the shittest teams in the league don't go to anfield and concede 7. On the flipside, notice how many teams can hang in there against us at 0-0 or 1/2-0 down? Sevilla come to mind
 
Honourable mention, Weghorst today. Put off Solly Marsh and probably prompted de Gea to mess with the penalty spot.
 
when youve newcastle subs stopping the oppostion taking quick throw ins, and we had that martinez situation vs seville...does make you think whether when it comes to these ' marginal gains' we do enough. although its quite clear that the 'marginal gains' that helped us win all those olympic cycling medals was also known as 'cheating / having asthma'
 
Yes we need more S Housery. We box the opposition player into the corner, he stops running, we run into the back of him, he falls over like he has been shot and ref blows for a free kick. Turn the tables we try to control the ball ,slip, fall over, attacker takes the ball crosses and goal. We never go out to get players sent off whilst the opposition is at it constantly. Do I like the last statement no, but winning is winning and the targeting of Casemiro we need to fight back with a bit of our own play acting.
 
I'd swap shithousery for being able to manage the game by keeping the ball. That allows you to "draw a foul" and waste time if neccessary, and it saps the morale and energy of the opposition. Basically it gives you all the cards, and the opposition don't have many to play. That's probably a more significant factor and where the top teams of recent years are so good. Real Madrid do things slightly differently in the CL, using counters, their experience in the middle of the park and being ultra efficient. But generally when the likes of City and Bayern have been good, and when Barca were good, they managed games by not even entertaining the prospect of the opposition coming back in the game, and the majority of that is based on quality and team structure, not neccessarily rolling around, moaning at refs, taking 4 years to take a throw in. They might do that stuff as the icing on the cake sometimes, but I don't think it is fundamental to their game management.

Whereas we start to panic as soon as we're a goal up and the opposition start to press us. It's very noticeable that we lose composure, we start playing rash passes that are too eager to find a counter instead of the things that have worked to get us into a good position. The defence and especially goalkeeper start to get a little bit flustered and it all starts to look messy. It seems to only take a coordinated press and the home crowds getting up to send us into this spiral.
 
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