I can't remember we produced defender that is not injury prone. That is huge problem and probably we are doing something wrong. Regarding quality, Mengi is PL player obviously, Tuanzebe was on that level before injuries and after Aston Villa loan he would play in most of PL bottom table teams if sold. Williams had PL games under his belt, and would also be PL player if he did not spend 2 seasons on sidelines with injury. Laird is top RB and will get to PL if fit. Fernandes also on the track to be PL level.
Defending has just changed.I think its a general problem in football - the focus on skill has been so extreme that defending is almost a lost art. I would struggle to name 6-7 high quality defenders in the P.L - but I can easily mention 20 attacking midfielders
Defending is a skill, there are very clear and well defined techniques in defending. Defending is part of all skills coaching for kids around the world. The problem is that now most players have a technical level thats higher than we saw 40 years ago due to improved coaching of kids. Its why the game has got faster, players have to be able to control the ball no matter what position they play quickly and often at pace. So defending requires all positions to be able to defend not just defenders. Its now become defending isnt just for defenders. Maybe the reason we dont name many defenders is the same as it was when I was a kid 50 years ago, its just not the sexy part of football.I think its a general problem in football - the focus on skill has been so extreme that defending is almost a lost art. I would struggle to name 6-7 high quality defenders in the P.L - but I can easily mention 20 attacking midfielders
I think we have. Tuanzebe, Laird, Mengi, Brandon Williams and Fosu Mensah were all excellent prospects at youth level but most of them have been cursed by injuries. Harrison Parker was also very highly rated before he was poached by City although not sure how much credit United could take with his development.
Agreed, of that list only really Laird and Mengi were absolute standouts, for me at least. I still stand by my view that if Laird hadn't suffered the injury issues he had done then he'd be our first choice RB, was a sublime talent.Most of those were overrated especially Fosu Mensah. He stood out and gained lots of fans mainly because physically he was an absolute beast and dominated the smaller boys at Youth Academy and U-23's level. Technically he was below average for me. And got found out at adult level football (premier league).
Think injuries prevented it and we learned our lesson giving contracts to people who haven't been fit. I thought he was really good tooWhenever I have seen Mengi play (which admittedly isn't a lot) I've thought "why did we let this lad go so easily". He's always looked a good player and I'm surprised he never even got a sniff with the first team...
I can't remember we produced defender that is not injury prone. That is huge problem and probably we are doing something wrong. Regarding quality, Mengi is PL player obviously, Tuanzebe was on that level before injuries and after Aston Villa loan he would play in most of PL bottom table teams if sold. Williams had PL games under his belt, and would also be PL player if he did not spend 2 seasons on sidelines with injury. Laird is top RB and will get to PL if fit. Fernandes also on the track to be PL level.
Most of those were overrated especially Fosu Mensah. He stood out and gained lots of fans mainly because physically he was an absolute beast and dominated the smaller boys at Youth Academy and U-23's level. Technically he was below average for me. And got found out at adult level football (premier league).
You would struggle to name 7 high quality defenders in any era even considering how much help defenders in previous eras got from the favored tactics and refereeing compared to today.I think its a general problem in football - the focus on skill has been so extreme that defending is almost a lost art. I would struggle to name 6-7 high quality defenders in the P.L - but I can easily mention 20 attacking midfielders
Mengi makes 10k per week. I think we could give a similar contract if his was running outThink injuries prevented it and we learned our lesson giving contracts to people who haven't been fit. I thought he was really good too
You would struggle to name 7 high quality defenders in any era even considering how much help defenders in previous eras got from the favored tactics and refereeing compared to today.
How could you make that comparison fairly though? At the time, defenders were allowed and even encouraged to "let them know you're there" or "rough them up a little bit" and we all know what that meant. Defenders were also allowed to just pass the ball to the GK who will pick it up with his hands if they were pressed. Most of the time, the full backs will also sit next to them providing cover and protection in a deep line. I am not saying these defenders did not require any skills to do what they did as each era will have its specific challenges but you just can't compare the physical allowances, tactical priorities and laws of the game and underestimate how much difference these aspects made to what is expected from a defender.Just picking the 1970's randomly...
Phil Neal, Brian Labone, Bobby Moore, Martin Buchan, Mick Mills, Colin Todd, Roy McFarlane, Viv Anderson, Dave Nish, Derek Statham, David O'Leary, Kevin Beattie, Derek Parkin, Steve Whitworth...all excellent defenders.
Defending in general has declined but theres probably numerous reasons why that has evolved.
How could you make that comparison fairly though? At the time, defenders were allowed and even encouraged to "let them know you're there" or "rough them up a little bit" and we all know what that meant. Defenders were also allowed to just pass the ball to the GK who will pick it up with his hands if they were pressed. Most of the time, the full backs will also sit next to them providing cover and protection in a deep line. I am not saying these defenders did not require any skills to do what they did as each era will have its specific challenges but you just can't compare the physical allowances, tactical priorities and laws of the game and underestimate how much difference these aspects made to what is expected from a defender.
How could you make that comparison fairly though? At the time, defenders were allowed and even encouraged to "let them know you're there" or "rough them up a little bit" and we all know what that meant. Defenders were also allowed to just pass the ball to the GK who will pick it up with his hands if they were pressed. Most of the time, the full backs will also sit next to them providing cover and protection in a deep line. I am not saying these defenders did not require any skills to do what they did as each era will have its specific challenges but you just can't compare the physical allowances, tactical priorities and laws of the game and underestimate how much difference these aspects made to what is expected from a defender.
It was also relevant to many CF's as well, Joe Jordan without his teeth is a good exampleThe whole 'let them know you're there' was certainly relevant to many defenders. You could list a whole bunch of those. However, there were plenty of cultured ball playing defenders who were also great in attack in previous eras. Your comment was that people would struggle to name 7 high quality defenders...the 14 above (and many others that don't come to mind) were high quality defenders that don't fall into your 'hard man' category and were extremely tactically aware. Our own Martin Buchan was a Rolls Royce player and would not look out of place in todays team. There were plenty around.
