Two points about today's match

uranushk1

I'd Bellion if I said I were an optimist
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I'd like to talk about two of our players in today's match. The first one is Scholes. Although I always have confidence on him but this time I am also surprised by his performance. He surely didn't look like just back from injury at all! In first half when he played in unfamilar position he still got a well executed goal. In ther second half after returning to MF, he was doing everything: long and short passes, tackle, dribble, shoot, win back the ball... If we want to choose the most all-rounded midfielder we have I'd choose Scholes. The most surprising things were his creativity: his defence splitting pass and his dribble on the left in 2nd half, which are the things we lacked since Cantona and Sheringham. I hope he can keep up this performance and keep his place in the team.

The other player I want to talk is Forlan. When he finally got a starting place he played as RM rather than a FW, why? Has Fergie already lost the confidence on him as a FW? However that will leave us with only two striker/forward left in our team. From today's match we can see Ruud just cannot miss any match, because we simply don't have any player to replace him! Let's wish Ruud remains healthy in these few months, and then Fergie can doing something once the transfer market repoens.
 
Agreed about Scholes. Excellent game today, and still very underrated by the general public IMHO. He just HAS to be one of our starting central midfielders.

About Forlan, I wonder if the players have lost confidence in him at all?
 
Yeah both comments spot on, im a bit sceptical about forlan? His workrate and passing are good, Its just his finishing an positioning thats not up to scratch, And being a striker they`re what he needs most??? I think he should shave his hair off and make fresh start ;) <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>Both players had good games today imo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree that Forlan didn't play badly today. But it seems we have yet to find the best position for him. What we need is forward/striker, so I don't see the point why fergie played him as a RM.
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Because we have injurys in that department and scholes is alredy proven in the premiership therefore he`d be more trusted infront of goal seen as thats where he started off in his younger days. Class!!!! <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
I thought Scholes was great in the second half, he was a bit invisable in the first half though, although most of Man Utds players were. I think Forlan still looks lost, we just cant find the right position for him, he certainly isnt an out and out striker, maybe his best position is wide right?
 
Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>Both players had good games today imo.</strong><hr></blockquote>
:eek:
Really? Was Forlan Playing!? ;)
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Originally posted by sidsutton:
<strong>He just HAS to be one of our starting central midfielders.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And to think some on here wanted Scholes gone so that Veron could get his chance.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

I agree that Forlan didn't play badly today. But it seems we have yet to find the best position for him. What we need is forward/striker, so I don't see the point why fergie played him as a RM.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed we haven’t found where he is most effective, but during the first half he looked really lively, and covered as much ground as anybody. There’s definitely been an improvement since he arrived, and given more starts and a close eye in training we’ll soon see the real Diego.
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I thought Scholes was fantastic yesterday...probably the difference between 3 points or a draw/loss. It's a shame he's been out for the last few weeks because I really think he could have made a difference for us. He just seems to always have that knack of popping up and getting you a goal at a vital time. Because he is such a big threat, I really think he would have helped open up some of the defences these pasts few weeks and would have given Ruud/Ole more space as well.

As for Diego, in the Guardian interview, Fergie talks about how he finishes "effortlessly" in training and how he would be better with a long run. He probably does need a long run, but I don't think we can afford to give him that right now because we're already 6 points behind Arsenal and need to scrape for every point we can get. And if Ruud and Ole are fit, you really do have to play them ahead of Diego.

I do worry that Diego doesn't seem to have that selfish/killer instinct that strikers seem to have. With Ruud/Ole, when they get half a chance, they'll always shoot and, you feel, believe they're going to score. With Diego, sometimes he just seems a bit too unselfish for a striker. Hopefully, if he is a great finisher in training but is having problems in matches...this unselfishness has to do with a lack of confidence more than anything else.

If he doesn't make it as a striker, and that's a big if because I'm not ready to write him off as a striker yet, I'd like to see how he would do as a winger because I really do think there's a lot of potential there.
 
Scholes was anonymous in the first half as playing him up front is not his best position. When United reverted to playing him to his central mid-field role, he was outstanding. I think that Butt and Scholes combination in the centre will be the best in the absence of Keane.
 
Definitely the MOST MOST impressive one on field last nite ... absolutely fantastic ... Denied a best opportunity by Rufus but I am so glad he's capped by the equalising goal later in 2nd half ...

You can see all his passings are so purposeful ... and the important thing is - he PASS it to the player he wanted ... unlike Veron which ... well, ... <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" /> not always ... <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
 
I think Scholes can offer something that Beckham seldom offers - short passes, and some off-the-ball movement. Scholes can run the central midfield, pass the ball along the pitch, performing 1-2 with other players. Beckham, on the contrary, is no doubt the expert in making pinpoint long passes, but sometimes he seems to do it so often that everytime he touches the ball, he will try to do a 30-40 yard, cross-field long ball. Those passes, even if you're an expert, the success rate can't be better than 50-50, thus, it often results in the breaking down of our attacks, and our defence will under pressure again. Having Scholes in CM, he will perform those short passes, which can trigger some beautiful movements, like the good old days, and complements with Beckham's long passes, can offer greater attacking potentials.
 
Scholes didn't surprise me, other than his fitness, he's always done those things for us, he's one hell of a player. Keane in his book says he is arguably the most gifted player in the squad. Someone said Scholes is one of those players that when he hangs up his boots people will realise that he was one of those rare talents thats few and far between.

But like Keane says "Paul was the perfect pro. Superb on the field, modest and sensibile off it. No celebrity bullshit, no self-promotion or glory-hunting, an amazingly gifted player who remained an unaffected human being." He doesn't get the attention of Giggs and Beckham, but he's one of our best players without a doubt, and we've certainly missed him while he was out. But he's back, and he's scored, and he's already playing great football and opening up defences. He also has a point to prove after last season and great desire to keep his place in the side. If played in his right position, an attacking midfielder, then there should be no doubt that he should keep his place. What's worrying is that Alex and Queiroz both think he should be a forward, and I'm yet to be convinced by that experiment, which yesterday again didn't come off.
 
Originally Posted by Neil Thomson:
What's worrying is that Alex and Queiroz both think he should be a forward, and I'm yet to be convinced by that experiment, which yesterday again didn't come off. <hr></blockquote>

I agree. The difference it made to the team when he reverted back to MF in the second half was easy to see. I just hope that by 'trying' to play Scholes as a forward we don't miss out on another striker.
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Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Scholes didn't surprise me, other than his fitness, he's always done those things for us, he's one hell of a player. Keane in his book says he is arguably the most gifted player in the squad. Someone said Scholes is one of those players that when he hangs up his boots people will realise that he was one of those rare talents thats few and far between.

But like Keane says "Paul was the perfect pro. Superb on the field, modest and sensibile off it. No celebrity bullshit, no self-promotion or glory-hunting, an amazingly gifted player who remained an unaffected human being." He doesn't get the attention of Giggs and Beckham, but he's one of our best players without a doubt, and we've certainly missed him while he was out. But he's back, and he's scored, and he's already playing great football and opening up defences. He also has a point to prove after last season and great desire to keep his place in the side. If played in his right position, an attacking midfielder, then there should be no doubt that he should keep his place. What's worrying is that Alex and Queiroz both think he should be a forward, and I'm yet to be convinced by that experiment, which yesterday again didn't come off.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What do you mean? Yesterday, he played excellently in the hole.

One of the problems for us continues to be beckham. now that teams have cut off his crosses, he is not nearly as effective a player as he thinks he is.
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Originally posted by Tomo:
<strong>tell you what, I reckon when the injury crisis are sorted...I hope Fergie stops playing player out of position...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why would he change the habits of a lifetime? ;)
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Originally posted by Alexander Wong:
<strong>I think Scholes can offer something that Beckham seldom offers - short passes, and some off-the-ball movement. Scholes can run the central midfield, pass the ball along the pitch, performing 1-2 with other players. Beckham, on the contrary, is no doubt the expert in making pinpoint long passes, but sometimes he seems to do it so often that everytime he touches the ball, he will try to do a 30-40 yard, cross-field long ball. Those passes, even if you're an expert, the success rate can't be better than 50-50, thus, it often results in the breaking down of our attacks, and our defence will under pressure again. Having Scholes in CM, he will perform those short passes, which can trigger some beautiful movements, like the good old days, and complements with Beckham's long passes, can offer greater attacking potentials.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree. And another problem of Beckham is that even if he passes shortly, he tends to remain on his original position or even drop back, rather than run forward to try to do a one-two or dash into the penalty area. That will leave the forward "fight on their own" and crowded by defenders. He can learn from Keano or Scholes in how to be a CM: after pass the ball, run forward to the best position to support the teammates.
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Just to pick up on a few of the Forlan comments and the fact that SAF played him Right Mid, the first time Fergie actually watched Forlan play in Argie land, Forlan was actually playing outside right, so perhaps it not totally surprising that he did not play him up front. I think he actually looked on occassions in Sat's game quite good. His movement and one touch passing was good (though there was one dreadful pass he played from around the centre circle to the wing). I totally agree that Scholes looked a lot like the old Scholes, and if he can keep this form up then the idea of him and a fit again Keano in CM is encouraging.
 
Originally posted by Canadian Dee:
<strong>Just to pick up on a few of the Forlan comments and the fact that SAF played him Right Mid, the first time Fergie actually watched Forlan play in Argie land, Forlan was actually playing outside right, so perhaps it not totally surprising that he did not play him up front. I think he actually looked on occassions in Sat's game quite good. His movement and one touch passing was good (though there was one dreadful pass he played from around the centre circle to the wing). I totally agree that Scholes looked a lot like the old Scholes, and if he can keep this form up then the idea of him and a fit again Keano in CM is encouraging.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No doubt our best midfield is Giggs,Scholes,Keane and Beckham they just seem to be telepathic and with Roy in there Giggs and Beckham play wider this has always been where have broken teams down .I feel we are playing to narrow at times.
As for Forlan I'm afraid he ain't got what it takes to be a United player obviously he has skill and pace but he is not dynamic, I think he is an expensive flop.
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Originally posted by pete_8:
<strong>

No doubt our best midfield is Giggs,Scholes,Keane and Beckham they just seem to be telepathic and with Roy in there Giggs and Beckham play wider this has always been where have broken teams down .I feel we are playing to narrow at times.
As for Forlan I'm afraid he ain't got what it takes to be a United player obviously he has skill and pace but he is not dynamic, I think he is an expensive flop.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree that our best midfield is Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham, with Butt to backup Keane or Scholes. That means, Fergie was trying to fix something that wasn't broken, thus result in breaking it up in his fixing process.

About Forlan, although I'm not convinced that he will be a profilic striker or world class player, he can still be a decent squad member for us after he matures, and 7m for a forward is definitely not too expensive in today (or last year's) standard.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

Agree that our best midfield is Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham, with Butt to backup Keane or Scholes. That means, Fergie was trying to fix something that wasn't broken, thus result in breaking it up in his fixing process.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ofcource it was broken, at least when facing the likes of Bayern at the highest level (or even lesser sides).

Yep, we certainly paid for it in the league - no doubt - but it made us a much better European side. Not exactly a perfect ballance, I know, but to say everything was top rosey with Keane, Giggs, Becks and Scholes is not correct.
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Originally posted by pete_8:
<strong>

No doubt our best midfield is Giggs,Scholes,Keane and Beckham they just seem to be telepathic and with Roy in there Giggs and Beckham play wider this has always been where have broken teams down .I feel we are playing to narrow at times.
As for Forlan I'm afraid he ain't got what it takes to be a United player obviously he has skill and pace but he is not dynamic, I think he is an expensive flop.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your first point : agree

Second point : let's see how he does over time, not 20-odd sub appearances. ;)
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Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>
Your first point : agree

Second point : let's see how he does over time, not 20-odd sub appearances. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Valid Point Gazza but you must have massive reservations. Lets face it if Fergie had faith in him he would have started him more often. I would be only to pleased to be proven wrong but I honestly can not see it happening
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Originally posted by pete_8:
<strong>

Valid Point Gazza but you must have massive reservations. Lets face it if Fergie had faith in him he would have started him more often. I would be only to pleased to be proven wrong but I honestly can not see it happening</strong><hr></blockquote>
Scouser ;)
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<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Ofcource it was broken, at least when facing the likes of Bayern at the highest level (or even lesser sides).</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then I hope we continue to be broken every year if that means we can win the league by Christmas
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

And Bayern may not even make the 2nd round of CL this season <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Originally posted by jilts:
<strong>Yeah both comments spot on, im a bit sceptical about forlan? His workrate and passing are good, Its just his finishing an positioning thats not up to scratch, And being a striker they`re what he needs most??? I think he should shave his hair off and make fresh start ;) <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed. The long hair is nonsense. Look at how often Nesta plays with his hair during a match. I just don't see why they leave it long.
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Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Ofcource it was broken, at least when facing the likes of Bayern at the highest level (or even lesser sides).

Yep, we certainly paid for it in the league - no doubt - but it made us a much better European side. Not exactly a perfect ballance, I know, but to say everything was top rosey with Keane, Giggs, Becks and Scholes is not correct.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Part of the problem was when Beckham crossed the ball there was no Yorkie to head it in.
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