Tuchel or Nagelsmann

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
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Who's better at coaching young players? Who's better at getting results under huge media pressure? Who would have the balls to drop/sell Bruno?

Who would you want between the two elite German coaches?
 
does tuchel even develop players? What’s his track record like with young players? Who would he his youngster for us that he gives first team to. All our previous managers have there own youngster they’ve promoted.
 
I would clearly take either, both are light years ahead of Erik. Tuchel probably represents a greater chance of short term success, but also the almost certain probability of a short(ish) tenure (no more than 3 years). I am not sure how much that matters these days, especially with a robust overarching structure in place.

Nagelsman still has some question marks over his head but definitely represents a longer term project and more stability. The question is what appetite do the fans and hierarchy have for further patience, which I feel Nagelsman would require. Tuchel also has the benefit of Premier League experience.

Personally I would go for Nagelsman and look to build over a three year period. I see him as much more likely to work collaboratively with the new hierarchy, which I think is vital to success.

But I wouldn’t complain at either.
 
simonhch said:
I would clearly take either, both are light years ahead of Erik. Tuchel probably represents a greater chance of short term success, but also the almost certain probability of a short(ish) tenure (no more than 3 years). I am not sure how much that matters these days, especially with a robust overarching structure in place.

Nagelsman still has some question marks over his head but definitely represents a longer term project and more stability. The question is what appetite do the fans and hierarchy have for further patience, which I feel Nagelsman would require. Tuchel also has the benefit of Premier League experience.

Personally I would go for Nagelsman and look to build over a three year period. I see him as much more likely to work collaboratively with the new hierarchy, which I think is vital to success.

But I wouldn’t complain at either.
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3 years is plenty long in football time. If either of them stay beyond 2 years they must be doing something right. Even ETH had to win two cups and finish in the top 4 once to get his leash extended. I think you make a good point about PL experience although people might be divided on if that counts for anything.
 
Nagelsmann's biggest impression to me was when his RB team beat us 3-2 and crashed us out of Europe under Ole. It also officially ended Ole's most rosy period with us (His peak was beating PSG and RB consecutively in the first two Champions League matches).
 
Nagelsmann would be by far the best appointment but he is not a realistic option until after the world Cup.
 
I do like how Tuchel goes mental at the players. I want some to make their lives miserable.
 
El Presidente said:
It may be a slight insult to Nagelsmann to compare him to Tuchel.
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How is that? Nagelsmann has not won anything of note. He is an amazing manager but he has a slightly worrying tendency to feck it up at crunch time.
Tuchel on the other hand usually performs well in big matches and has the trophies to prove it.
 
FortunaUtd said:
How is that? Nagelsmann has not won anything of note. He is an amazing manager but he has a slightly worrying tendency to feck it up at crunch time.
Tuchel on the other hand usually performs well in big matches and has the trophies to prove it.
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Nagelsmann’s teams are always properly coached, he’s tactically very astute. He’s the type of profile we should be working with for a sustained long term success.

Tuchel is similar to Conte, without the “guarantee of success” midway through. You don’t rebuild a team with these profiles.
 
Tuchel has achieved a huge amount but I can't help but think he's a bit like Mourinho was when we signed him (not comparing their careers). Someone you know will cause issues, attack players throughout a while season and all in the hope they are good enough, and he is a good coach, to win you something. I feel he is the obvious Glazer style signing.

Nagelsmann. I feel like his work with Hoffenheim was great but his time at RBL always gets overhyped and was his Bayern stint that great? Going out to Villarreal in the CL quarters is pretty awful for a Bayern manager and they obviously feel he had let the league slip away when they sacked him. Hard to judge anything on international coaching but, if I had to pick between the two, I'd pick Naglesmann as I feel he's less of a nut job.
 
Desert Eagle said:
3 years is plenty long in football time. If either of them stay beyond 2 years they must be doing something right. Even ETH had to win two cups and finish in the top 4 once to get his leash extended. I think you make a good point about PL experience although people might be divided on if that counts for anything.
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Premier league experience is good to have but not essential as neither Guardiola or Klopp had it until they came.
 
Nagelsmann.

As @tomaldinho1 points out, and I have seen it said about him before, Tuchel seems more analogous to Mourinho, very pragmatic and may get you some results but not someone to build around long term, I can't help but think appointing someone like him is a similar appointment to an Ole or Jose which is what we should be getting away from, Nagelsmann would probably build with the management team to develop the Game Model for the club as they see fit.
 
El Presidente said:
Nagelsmann’s teams are always properly coached, he’s tactically very astute. He’s the type of profile we should be working with for a sustained long term success.

Tuchel is similar to Conte, without the “guarantee of success” midway through. You don’t rebuild a team with these profiles.
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I don't disagree, I would prefer Nagelsmann too. Just saying that in terms of achievements, Tuchel is actually (and Conte even more so) a tier above Nagelsmann still.

The only caveat with Nagelsmann is that he is amazingly stubborn in his own right and at times has ruined big games for his team with what can only be called a managerial ego trip. Prime example, his selection for Leipzig's cup final in 2020, when he kicked Angelino out of the squad out of nowhere who had been the team's best performer that season, and they got thrashed by Dortmund...
He was and still is very young, but in a moment when he could and should have won his first trophy, he messed up badly. He got schooled by Emery when Villareal kicked Bayern out of CL, too, his decisions late in the return game were horrible.
 
DJ_21 said:
does tuchel even develop players? What’s his track record like with young players? Who would he his youngster for us that he gives first team to. All our previous managers have there own youngster they’ve promoted.
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Do we care if he isn’t good at promoting youngsters
I feel that’s a privileged position for clubs with settled squads or selling clubs that need the sales to stay afloat
 
Stobzilla said:
Nagelsmann.

As @tomaldinho1 points out, and I have seen it said about him before, Tuchel seems more analogous to Mourinho, very pragmatic and may get you some results but not someone to build around long term, I can't help but think appointing someone like him is a similar appointment to an Ole or Jose which is what we should be getting away from, Nagelsmann would probably build with the management team to develop the Game Model for the club as they see fit.
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Mourinho is still probably our best post fergie appointment. He lost it after the Sevilla debacle but to be fair to him, he did have to deal with Woodward.
Ultimately football is about results so give me 2/3 years of good results any day over the romanticism of some 'project'. Now that we have footballing people in the background this idea of needing a manager who gets plenty of time just doesn't appeal to me. ETH was supposed to be game model type manager but he turned pragmatic real quick after he started getting spanked. His greatest result for us (the fa cup final) was also extremely pragmatic and nothing to do with this long term footballing vision.
 
El Presidente said:
Nagelsmann’s teams are always properly coached, he’s tactically very astute. He’s the type of profile we should be working with for a sustained long term success.

Tuchel is similar to Conte, without the “guarantee of success” midway through. You don’t rebuild a team with these profiles.
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You might want to compare trophies between the two.
 
According to that Sam C on X/twitter, Tuchel was highly praised for his man management during his tenure at Chelsea and according to his contacts there(Sam Cs that is), they couldn't understand why he was let go, they saw it as a mistake and it was all down to Boehly and the new leadership just wanting to shake things up and do everything their way. Also it's Tuchels camp that's sending out "signals" that he will be open to take over at MU and not necessarily INEOs that are "chasing him".

But to answer the question either or imo. Atm Tuchel is more attainable, so him I guess.
 
Would definitely want Naglesmann but it's a non issue because he's not going to leave Germany before the World Cup.

Tuchel, his performances for Bayern did leave a sour taste in terms of whether he can perform in the long term and he once again started creating issues behind the scenes with his open comments about players.

We missed the trick with Hansi Flick, he was available over the summer and would've been a better option than Tuchel and currently with ETH.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Would definitely want Naglesmann but it's a non issue because he's not going to leave Germany before the World Cup.

Tuchel, his performances for Bayern did leave a sour taste in terms of whether he can perform in the long term and he once again started creating issues behind the scenes with his open comments about players.

We missed the trick with Hansi Flick, he was available over the summer and would've been a better option than Tuchel and currently with ETH.
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Flick has surprised a few ..
And we always miss tricks ..
 
DJ_21 said:
does tuchel even develop players? What’s his track record like with young players? Who would he his youngster for us that he gives first team to. All our previous managers have there own youngster they’ve promoted.
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"Developing Young players" is a phrase used so much in football as an attribute for a coach and IMO it's a pointless metric. Real life isn't FIFA where you develop players using XP to boost their ratings. There are good players and there are bad players. Good coaches setup systems where their players shine and when the right players for those systems play, they get better. Klopp spent a better part of 10 years at Liverpool and the only young player to have developed fully under him is TAA. For Pep it's Foden. Doesnt diminish their achievements one bit.

The Athletic made a great point in one of their recent videos about how Barca is seen as a club that develops players because of the enormous amount of talent that La Masia produces but that Madrid also develops players but in a totally different way ans it's still a very good method because they have a system that works.

In a working system, young players grow because they have clear instructions on how to fulfill their roles. This plus playing time is all a good player needs to become better.
 
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Neither…both have big egos.
Won’t end well, 1-2 years more wasted.
 
El Presidente said:
It may be a slight insult to Nagelsmann to compare him to Tuchel.
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Nagelsmann has won nothing like as much as Tuchel and flopped just as hard at Bayern. They're both top coaches who would improve us massively. They both have a few flaws, like most other coaches.
 
J!!Z said:
"Developing Young players" is a phrase used so much in football as an attribute for a coach and IMO it's a pointless metric. Real life isn't FIFA where you develop players using XP to boost their ratings. There are good players and there are bad players. Good coaches setup systems where their players shine and when the right players for those systems play, they get better. Klopp spent a better part of 10 years at Liverpool and the only young player to have developed fully under him is TAA. For Pep it's Foden. Doesnt diminish their achievements one bit.

The Athletic made a great point in one of their recent videos about how Barca is seen as a club that develops players because of the enormous amount of talent that La Masia produces but that Madrid also develops players but in a totally different way ans it's still a very good method because they have a system that works.

In a working system, young players grow because they have clear instructions on how to fulfill their roles. This plus playing time is all a good player needs to become better.
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Totally agree. So much overcomplication around football ideas now. "Developing young players" definitely being one of them.
 
El Presidente said:
We literally have squad members Nagelsmann’s age? How about some perspective.
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You are the one who said:
"Tuchel is similar to Conte, without the “guarantee of success” midway through."
Im just saying that Tuchel wins trophies, he's actually pretty good at it.
 
Feel like Tuchel is the only realistic one here unless Nagelsmann has an about face over managing at the World Cup.

If it is Tuchel, I'd feel comfortable in expecting him to win the Europa league and finishing top 4 with this team.

Looking at the Chelsea team Tuchel he took over midseason and what he did with them in a fixed amount of time and looking at our team now, he’d be tasked with extremely similar problems.

Far too big gaps being constantly left behind in a midfield and side that is disorganised, low on energy and full of isolated players.

During his first 25 matches, he beat the likes of Madrid over 2 legs, beat Atleti over 2 legs, beat City twice and beat Liverpool on the way to a CL title.

The record was:

25 matches
18 wins
5 draws
2 defeats
33 goals
11 conceded

Prior to him taking over they had won just 2 out of 8 PL matches...sound similar?
 
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