Alock1
Wears XXXL shirts and can't type ellipses
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Taken from FIFA's Laws of the Game.
My question is mostly, should it be at the discretion of the referees/fourth officials? So often I think there is just far too much leeway for it to be up to the refs discretion (or, is that the exact reason it needs to be?). You feel like one ref could give 2 minutes added time and another 5 at the end of 90 minutes, and no-one (bar fans of the side at a disadvantage) would consider it's accuracy.
How much football is actually played? Admittedly, I've wondered this a ton of times and always told myself that I'll time the game myself and stop the clock whenever the ball is out of play (like Basketball). I'm not necessarily saying that it'd make sense to have 90 minutes of the ball in play, likely the quality would suffer as a result, but I'd be interested to see how much time the ball actually spends on the pitch with play ongoing. And if a stricter measure was put into place to keep time, then it's not like the two halves of 45 minute rules are some irreversible pillar of what makes the game what it is.
The above is taken from this BBC article.
It offers up some of the extra guidelines that the officials are given to aid them in keeping time. But the rule of thumbs offered up to certain scenarios are then subjected to arbitrary discretion from the officials anyway rendering them potentially pointless.
And what are the rules on when to blow the whistle? So of course, the time given is that of minimum added time - but then there may need to be more time added ontop of that. Fair enough.. but at that point there is no indication, and it again becomes a game of the referees personal whim. Does advantage matter? Do the circumstances of the team matter? They seem to, despite the above guidelines denying there is any particular instruction on this.
If a team who is winning is holding the ball up the pitch at the end of time, the ref won't hesitate to blow the whistle. Generally, when a team gains a points advantage from scoring and has the ball in the opposition third, the ref will let them play on until they lose advantage. Is there any background to this, why it takes place? There are exceptions of course, Uniteds champions league tie at the Bernabeu a couple of years ago when we were about to take a corner is one notable example.
tl;dr
Should time-keeping be a discretionary tool for the referee and/or fourth official?
Do the guidelines governing such need to change?
Do circumstances of the game matter, and should they matter?
Allowance for time lost
Allowance is made in either period for all time lost through:
• substitutions
• assessment of injury to players
• removal of injured players from the field of play for treatment
• wasting time
• any other cause
The allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee.
My question is mostly, should it be at the discretion of the referees/fourth officials? So often I think there is just far too much leeway for it to be up to the refs discretion (or, is that the exact reason it needs to be?). You feel like one ref could give 2 minutes added time and another 5 at the end of 90 minutes, and no-one (bar fans of the side at a disadvantage) would consider it's accuracy.
How much football is actually played? Admittedly, I've wondered this a ton of times and always told myself that I'll time the game myself and stop the clock whenever the ball is out of play (like Basketball). I'm not necessarily saying that it'd make sense to have 90 minutes of the ball in play, likely the quality would suffer as a result, but I'd be interested to see how much time the ball actually spends on the pitch with play ongoing. And if a stricter measure was put into place to keep time, then it's not like the two halves of 45 minute rules are some irreversible pillar of what makes the game what it is.
So what are the rules about stoppage time?
The Professional Game Match Officials - the board responsible for providing the Premier League with officials and developing refereeing - provided BBC Sport with some answers.
How do referees keep track of how long an injury takes?
There's two people, one of the assistants and the fourth official. As soon as the physio or trainer comes on, they will monitor how long they are on the pitch.
Does he stop his watch or just note what time the injury has happened?
He doesn't stop his watch, no. It's just a case of monitoring their watch; they never stop the watch.
Is 30 seconds added on for each substitution?
As a rule of thumb, yes. But if a player is doddering, meandering, then extra time can be added. And it's the same for red cards, yellow cards as well.
Is the clock stopped for goals?
No, it's not. But they do add time (to cover celebrations). It's around 30 seconds as a rule of thumb, unless they spend five minutes celebrating. Every situation is different, they'll take each one on its merit.
How do referees account for time-wasting?
That's discretionary. It has to depend on the situation.
When does he let the fourth official know how long he wants added on?
It's usually about two minutes before the end of each half.
How does he keep track of the amount of added time in injury time itself?
That's the same process itself. For example in the Reading-Arsenal game there was a substitution in extra time.
Do referees not blow for full-time when a team is attacking?
No. They can blow for full time at any junction.
What have been the major changes in the process over recent years?
Just that fourth officials note down every stoppage of play. They can present it to the management team of any club - should they want a list.
How long have fourth officials been noting the times down?
It's actually since last season. They've been writing it down properly so that people can see this is the list of where the time has been added on.
How much has it helped ease potential tensions with managers?
There aren't any. I mean the communications between match officials and both players and managers are much improved. The manager and the captain go in and exchange team sheets with the referee beforehand. We removed the monitor in the dugout a few years ago (and) the behaviour in the technical area has improved remarkably. Credit needs to go to the managers and players.
Sir Alex Ferguson is among managers that have repeatedly called for the responsibility of timekeeping to be taken away from referees. Has this ever been discussed?
It has. It is something that has been discussed at the PGMO technical committee, which meets quarterly to discuss and potentially suggest to Fifa any changes in the laws of the game.
It would be an International Football Association Association Board (Ifab) decision for that to be introduced. If it was to be introduced by a third party, whether that's a fourth official or somebody up in the stands, Fifa would need to make that decision and if there was a particularly strong request for that, PGMO technical committee could suggest that too.
On the PGMO technical committee are the bodies responsible for organising the game in this country - the LMA, the PFA; there's club representatives on there. They can suggest to Fifa 'We would like this to be put to Ifab'.
Ifab don't have to put that on their agenda or if they do put it on the agenda, they don't have to vote for it as well, but they can make suggestions. It's something that has been up for debate before. The LMA, as Sir Alex is part of, if they feel very strongly about that, they can work with the technical committee to see if that can be put on Ifab's remit.
But if you are going to put that on Ifab you would need to have data which suggests this would improve the match time-keeping by x%. You'd need to provide them with some evidence it is a worthwhile thing to do.
The Professional Game Match Officials - the board responsible for providing the Premier League with officials and developing refereeing - provided BBC Sport with some answers.
How do referees keep track of how long an injury takes?
There's two people, one of the assistants and the fourth official. As soon as the physio or trainer comes on, they will monitor how long they are on the pitch.
Does he stop his watch or just note what time the injury has happened?
He doesn't stop his watch, no. It's just a case of monitoring their watch; they never stop the watch.
Is 30 seconds added on for each substitution?
As a rule of thumb, yes. But if a player is doddering, meandering, then extra time can be added. And it's the same for red cards, yellow cards as well.
Is the clock stopped for goals?
No, it's not. But they do add time (to cover celebrations). It's around 30 seconds as a rule of thumb, unless they spend five minutes celebrating. Every situation is different, they'll take each one on its merit.
How do referees account for time-wasting?
That's discretionary. It has to depend on the situation.
When does he let the fourth official know how long he wants added on?
It's usually about two minutes before the end of each half.
How does he keep track of the amount of added time in injury time itself?
That's the same process itself. For example in the Reading-Arsenal game there was a substitution in extra time.
Do referees not blow for full-time when a team is attacking?
No. They can blow for full time at any junction.
What have been the major changes in the process over recent years?
Just that fourth officials note down every stoppage of play. They can present it to the management team of any club - should they want a list.
How long have fourth officials been noting the times down?
It's actually since last season. They've been writing it down properly so that people can see this is the list of where the time has been added on.
How much has it helped ease potential tensions with managers?
There aren't any. I mean the communications between match officials and both players and managers are much improved. The manager and the captain go in and exchange team sheets with the referee beforehand. We removed the monitor in the dugout a few years ago (and) the behaviour in the technical area has improved remarkably. Credit needs to go to the managers and players.
Sir Alex Ferguson is among managers that have repeatedly called for the responsibility of timekeeping to be taken away from referees. Has this ever been discussed?
It has. It is something that has been discussed at the PGMO technical committee, which meets quarterly to discuss and potentially suggest to Fifa any changes in the laws of the game.
It would be an International Football Association Association Board (Ifab) decision for that to be introduced. If it was to be introduced by a third party, whether that's a fourth official or somebody up in the stands, Fifa would need to make that decision and if there was a particularly strong request for that, PGMO technical committee could suggest that too.
On the PGMO technical committee are the bodies responsible for organising the game in this country - the LMA, the PFA; there's club representatives on there. They can suggest to Fifa 'We would like this to be put to Ifab'.
Ifab don't have to put that on their agenda or if they do put it on the agenda, they don't have to vote for it as well, but they can make suggestions. It's something that has been up for debate before. The LMA, as Sir Alex is part of, if they feel very strongly about that, they can work with the technical committee to see if that can be put on Ifab's remit.
But if you are going to put that on Ifab you would need to have data which suggests this would improve the match time-keeping by x%. You'd need to provide them with some evidence it is a worthwhile thing to do.
The above is taken from this BBC article.
It offers up some of the extra guidelines that the officials are given to aid them in keeping time. But the rule of thumbs offered up to certain scenarios are then subjected to arbitrary discretion from the officials anyway rendering them potentially pointless.
And what are the rules on when to blow the whistle? So of course, the time given is that of minimum added time - but then there may need to be more time added ontop of that. Fair enough.. but at that point there is no indication, and it again becomes a game of the referees personal whim. Does advantage matter? Do the circumstances of the team matter? They seem to, despite the above guidelines denying there is any particular instruction on this.
If a team who is winning is holding the ball up the pitch at the end of time, the ref won't hesitate to blow the whistle. Generally, when a team gains a points advantage from scoring and has the ball in the opposition third, the ref will let them play on until they lose advantage. Is there any background to this, why it takes place? There are exceptions of course, Uniteds champions league tie at the Bernabeu a couple of years ago when we were about to take a corner is one notable example.
tl;dr
Should time-keeping be a discretionary tool for the referee and/or fourth official?
Do the guidelines governing such need to change?
Do circumstances of the game matter, and should they matter?
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