2000 was close to WWE's peak as they found consistent quality in both ppvs and in their weekly shows. Prior to that, Russo prioritized RAW and while I do feel that RAW was the best it's ever been during that period, some of the PPV matches were lacking.
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
2000 was close to WWE's peak as they found consistent quality in both ppvs and in their weekly shows. Prior to that, Russo prioritized RAW and while I do feel that RAW was the best it's ever been during that period, some of the PPV matches were lacking.
I think we've hit the point here where I suppose it is a "fact" that, in Sparky's opinon, it was the best PPV of the last decade, but, at the same time, obvious subjectivty can't be considered fact.
Personally, I enjoyed probably half a dozen if not more TakeOvers than All Out. Granted they had the benefit of filling a shorter timeslot so higher quality stuff was prioritised, but for me, the only real "wow" from All Out was the tag match. The debuts at the end were cool moments, but I think both were also pretty much a given, especially as they've both been blatantly hinted at for a few weeks.
Having looked and watched them all, I think I'd rate most, if not all, of the TakeOvers from Brookyln II in August 2016 to Portland in February 2020 (17 PPVs) at least as much as All Out, and the majority of them probably more. However, I do think the TakeOvers have (/had) an advantage in shorter timeslots meaning higher quality stuff being prioritised and also I think most (maybe all) were not proper PPVs as they were Network exclusives so they weren't needing to be value for $50 or whatever AEW PPVs cost in the States.
OK here's the thing for me. If we want to talk about the feeling of the show, I think it's up there with every great PPVs in the history. Just because the crowd were into it and everybody were happy from start to finish. It was a happy show even before it started. We had the in ring return of Punk and debuts of Adam cole and Danielson. Like as a fan being in a show or watching it what else do you want? And they had other great debuts on top of it as well. So in terms of great moments it was fantastic, as I said up there with any other great PPVs. And it is a very important night in wrestling history as well because now it's officially a new chapter in wrestling history. AEW has always been great, but believe me there's a huge difference between Punk, Danielson and Cole with the talent that had to put on the show before like Matt Hardy. No insult to them but these are all timers talents. So I believe from now on with the addition of these 3 on top of a stacked roster that they already had, and with the forbidden door being open it will be new chapter in wrestling and it will be Great, really looking forward to the future.
So as I said great night with great moments and also a very very important night. But to me when I want to say wich PPV is better, for me what is important is quality of the matches from start to finish. In All Out you had the Cage match that was great. I heard Meltzer and Alvarez say it's the greatest cage match ever, for me that's easily Bret Vs Owen but certainly top two ever at least. Other than that what was spectacular on the card? Not that they were bad, no, very solid, very good matches but nothing spectacular. I can think of a lot of Takeovers that were easily much better than All Out with Great great matches from start to finish, even Takeover UK Cardiff was definitely better, I think every Wrestle Kingdom in the past few years have been much better with quality matches all over the card. I think WWE has had good PPVs in the past years, I can't watch a minute of a WWE PPV now but I think WM30 was good, SummerSlams were good a few years in a row around 2016, few good Rumbles here and there. And in terms of a great show with happy crowd I think WM33 was a very happy night as well. And in AEW history I think in terms of quality of the matches maybe All Out 2019 was slightly better. At least the Bucks Vs LB the ladder match was better than this one, since that their match was the only spectacular match on the card both nigts.
Russo never got to Smackdown.... The real 'b-show' stuff didn't really start until post-Invasion either. But yeah the Rock-led late 99-WM17 was an immense time, and somehow, without Austin for the whole of 2000...I wonder if Austin would of helped Kurt, Angle, Benoit and even Trips in 2000 if he wasn't out, they all went to the next level under the Rock's time at the top.
But it is a fact, the fact is I enjoyed that show more than anything the wwe has done in a decade, this is not up for debate, its not a point you can argue, you can't tell me I didn't. And that being the case for me it was better than anything they have done as I enjoyed it more.
I can see him going. He's an indie guy who is close with a few AEW top guys and if you're a big WWE name I'm imagining the drop in pay to go to AEW is quite small or no drop at all.
Owen’s is a family man with a lot of friends in AEW. The lite schedule of AEW must be a massive pull compared to what WWE are doing.
I know I just banged on about the AEW roster being too full, but you kinda have to go after Owens and Zayn if they're available. Zayn in particular has never had that big face run in WWE, which he would excel at.
He'd also be good for a bit of diversity... one thing you can say about All Out is that is was very white (not Paul).
He'd also be good for a bit of diversity... one thing you can say about All Out is that is was very white (not Paul).
I agree. I think AEW need to stockpiling talent, or they're going to have the same problem that WWE has, where talent is underused. But if Owens/Zayn are available. You go all out (pun intended) for them.
That's the time when you look at losing the likes of Matt Hardy, Big Show, Christian etc I would expect. Or at least move them to non-wrestling roles, or even let them go to Impact etc
After those two though, there are very few i'd take from WWE.
That's the time when you look at losing the likes of Matt Hardy, Big Show, Christian etc I would expect. Or at least move them to non-wrestling roles, or even let them go to Impact etc
After those two though, there are very few i'd take from WWE.
the mens main event picture is stacked in AEW. What’s the ideal number you’d want?
attitude era was
Rock
Stone Cole
HHH
Kurt angle
Mankind
Undertaker
Kane,Jericho,Beniot and Eddie were slightly underneath if I remember correctly.
AEW have
Omega
Punk
Bryan
Cody
Moxley
Hangman
With Jericho,Darby,Christian,MJF,PAC,Miro and Andrade underneath.I don’t think you can add anymore to that.
Edit - Black and Adam Cole too
attitude era was
Rock
Stone Cole
HHH
Kurt angle
Mankind
Undertaker
Kane,Jericho,Beniot and Eddie were slightly underneath if I remember correctly.
AEW have
Omega
Punk
Bryan
Cody
Moxley
Hangman
With Jericho,Darby,Christian,MJF,PAC,Miro and Andrade underneath.I don’t think you can add anymore to that.
Edit - Black and Adam Cole too
You're arguing over semantics.
Anyone's subjective view of something cannot be considered fact, which is what they are arguing.
At the same time, your view that it was better than any (non-NXT) WWE show in the last decade can not be considered false, as it is your view.
Your initial post on the matter was phrased as a statement of fact and no reference to it being your opinion was present, which is where the argument started, but at this point it's quite clear what you mean.
Just finished watching All Out and managed to stay spoiler free. Wow, what a show! That’s definitely the best AEW PPV and as good as anything I can remember in the last 20 years, up there with the very best NXT Takeovers. Some superb matches, great moments and real attention to detail too with some of the booking and match spots.
Somehow, despite the world expecting Bryan Danielson, they still managed to overdeliver and surprise everyone with the closing angle. We should have known Cole was coming to join The Elite. They pushed the heel tunnel concept twice earlier in the night!
I’m not a massive fan of Adam Cole and it was during his feud with Gargano with the forced epic main events that my interest dipped in NXT. Hopefully there’s more to enjoy here. I’ll have Danielson wrestling for 25 minutes against a different guy every single week though.
Massively excited for Dynamite and Rampage this week with two excellent main events already scheduled.
Somehow, despite the world expecting Bryan Danielson, they still managed to overdeliver and surprise everyone with the closing angle. We should have known Cole was coming to join The Elite. They pushed the heel tunnel concept twice earlier in the night!
I’m not a massive fan of Adam Cole and it was during his feud with Gargano with the forced epic main events that my interest dipped in NXT. Hopefully there’s more to enjoy here. I’ll have Danielson wrestling for 25 minutes against a different guy every single week though.
Massively excited for Dynamite and Rampage this week with two excellent main events already scheduled.
Yeah Ill concede I could have been clearer
Yeah not sure what happens with the whole Pac / Andrade / Lucha Bros tug of war now. Always looked like Andrade was goona split the death triangle up but surely not now they've just won the tag team titles...?
Can deffo see Owen and Zayn jumping ship. Both deserve to be booked a lot better
See, id never have a go at somebody for saying its their best PPV in the last ten years, cos its obvious the point is its best to them. They personally enjoyed it.
Only way that can be argued is if its a statement based on measurable metrics (eg most popular - reviews, or most profitable - income, etc)
I think given hes a family man, I can see him staying with WWE if they offer him more money than AEW.
in terms of schedule, WWE schedule now isnt grueling. Its what, one show a week. They hardly do house shows anymore, so its not like the 200 shows per year they used to do when TNA first got Television and were trying to get talent.
Wasnt this posted on 9th July, as opposed to 7th September?
Yeah, I was kinda certain they would have Lucha Brothers screw Pac, and join up with Andrade.
Lucha Brothers are at top popularity right now.
The only reason i could see them turning is to that JE can win it off them down the line.
AEW have far too big a roster as is. How are they going to be booked better?
Thats the issue now. At least Owens gets in the main event sometimes, although he loses to Roman etc. Sami might be the same positioning as WWE around the middle but with more fun and creativity. Its hard to see how Owens gets a bigger role in AEW than he has in WWE without causing problems for someone else's position in AEW. Maybe if Jericho does end up doing commentary when Owens is available that could free up a spot for him near the top
We saw it with Miro. It was obvious they were just doing something with him and keeping him looking strong until they had the space to push him in a big role. But people couldnt wait for one storyline with Kip and Penelope to start saying he was being wasted. Despite taking out tag teams himself, not losing and looking like a top heel. After the one angle he was pushed to the 2nd belt, which they dont consider a mid card belt so I guess its a main event position. So they wanted to, but he came in at a time when they werent ready for that.
My guess is some of the older guys start stepping away and doing commentary, full time trainer, coming in as managers or mentors to the other talent (and getting rid of some of the current managers) or doing stuff behind the scenes. Jericho, Dustin Rhodes, Daniels, Kazarian, Matt Hardy, Christian in a year or so and maybe some others. They can also send people out to Impact or NJPW for example. Maybe some of the younger guys who can get a push in Impact and get experience in a bigger role
Maybe someone like Ricky Starks, Wardlow, Hobbs, John Silver, Varsity Blondes etc could get in the title picture for the impact title or tag titles. Or the NWA ones.
Last edited:
AEW's top guys right now; Omega, Punk, Bryan, Cole, Moxley, Cody, Christian, Jericho, Hangman, Black, MJF. Some might put Miro and Andrade there. I wouldn't. I think they're shite.
How to do you keep a dozen main eventers all busy on a two hour show? (Rampage is basically Sunday Night Heat. It's a waste putting main eventers on there).
How to do you keep a dozen main eventers all busy on a two hour show? (Rampage is basically Sunday Night Heat. It's a waste putting main eventers on there).
The same way you do it when they're working the indies. They arent all going for the title at once. They are allowed to have fun with their matches, characters, feuds and promos, so it doesnt matter if they're the champ or not.
Its not that difficult. As you will have two or three going after the main title.
Somebody like Christian wont be after the main title now, and has a Impact title to defend whilst he can help with people like Jungle Boy.
Black is focused on nightmare family, so has a feud away from the title.
Pretty much all of them have a feud or an interest going on, and some if not all are linked with each other.
Its much better than having only three main eventers under 40 across three shows for five hours worth of tv.
If it's written well then it can all work - same as WWE struggles these days.
The writing is more important than anything but they don't seem to get something so basic.
Yep. Problem with WWE is its written for one man, and things change all the time and last minute, that there is never a payoff to storylines or even logic.
Also this made me laugh:
So HHH had a cardiac event just announced
Not really a surprise considering his physic and bodybuilding days plus the roids.
Hope he makes a full recovery.
Also explains why Vince wasn't at Raw
Not really a surprise considering his physic and bodybuilding days plus the roids.
Hope he makes a full recovery.
Also explains why Vince wasn't at Raw
What did WWE do with AJ Styles? 2 years ago he was arguably the best wrestler on the planet but it feels likes he’s been thrown into the mid card and it’s a similar story for Seth Rollins as well.
Vince no doubts thinks they are too old and established enough that whenever he chooses they will suddenly be worthy of title runs
I think what Choccy says
Seth at least had a feud with Edge. AJ has been used to make Olmos a star.
I wonder if HHH heart issues started when Vince told him he was taking over NXT and destroying all his excellent work.
On another frustrating note, the audience for Heels was down again.
I don't get it as it is such a great show IMO but maybe if it was on at the same time of AEW PPV it might explain it somewhat.
I don't get it as it is such a great show IMO but maybe if it was on at the same time of AEW PPV it might explain it somewhat.
The age old problem of people like Roman being the ones Vince wants on top.
For Seth though he lost the crowd when he was crying at the Fiend coming after him. So they turned him heel but his character since then hasn't been very interesting so he hasn't gone to the next level as a heel either
So for Dynamite this week I expect a bit of an increase, but its not going to suddenly be almost 2 million people or something. That might happen in the next 6 months over time, but tonight I think it'll be a bit up on normal and then in the coming weeks a bit more than that
1.4?
Don't mind Ekeke, he's just tempering expectations in case of a flop rating. A Dynamite on the back of one of the most well-regarded PPVs in the last couple of years with a debuting Adam Cole and Daniel Bryan (who main evented Wrestlemania a few months ago).
They would want to be doing a colossal rating. 1.4 is the minimum they should be doing.
They would want to be doing a colossal rating. 1.4 is the minimum they should be doing.
No way, dynamite got 1.05 last week and that's been around the number they've been getting since nxt moved
I really can't see them getting more than a 350k increase based on one ppv whilst on TNT
WCW didnt suddenly do an extra 50% rating every week after Hall and Nash came in and Hogan was the 3rd man in the NWO, so why would AEW? Why would they do what others havent?
I expect 1.3 and climbing towards 1.5 in the next 6 months