Third year meltdown bollocks

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
I'm sick and tired about reading about a famous 3rd year meltdown. I get it when media pushes it, they want it to happen so it can gain clicks, reads whatever. Jose losing the dressing room has been a story from last year and every monologue of which there were few tbh is treated like a beginning of a meltdown.

What is worse is that some of our fans are repeating it non stop as if they can't wait for it to happen so we can get rid of him. There are posts like he'll be out by Christmas and so on like it's a good thing if he goes earlier. I tell you what, I'd rather we'll be in a title race come Christmas and even if we dont win it that we'll be in the mix than to start over at half season with god knows who.

Maybe it will be just a problem with a result and if we get top 4 Ed will want to get rid or Jose will step down. But that talk about meltdowns. Even at Chelsea and Madrid it wasn't all his fault what happened and he's not some evil guy who just brakes everything around him and acts like a lunatic. Did he have a fair share of mistakes and stupid decisons? Sure. But some of the stuff written and said is ridiculous.

In any case he has certainly mellowed over the years. In Italy and in Spain he was arguing with everyone under the sun. Now he doesn't do that, he's a lot calmer. But that's a problem too cause you know what, he doesn't smile... He is in good relations with Benitez, Pep, but now he will inevitably have his famous meltdown and will 'combust' and destroy the club and everything it stands for.
 
Ban said:
I'm sick and tired about reading about a famous 3rd year meltdown. I get it when media pushes it, they want it to happen so it can gain clicks, reads whatever. Jose losing the dressing room has been a story from last year and every monologue of which there were few tbh is treated like a beginning of a meltdown.

What is worse is that some of our fans are repeating it non stop as if they can't wait for it to happen so we can get rid of him. There are posts like he'll be out by Christmas and so on like it's a good thing if he goes earlier. I tell you what, I'd rather we'll be in a title race come Christmas and even if we dont win it that we'll be in the mix than to start over at half season with god knows who.

Maybe it will be just a problem with a result and if we get top 4 Ed will want to get rid or Jose will step down. But that talk about meltdowns. Even at Chelsea and Madrid it wasn't all his fault what happened and he's not some evil guy who just brakes everything around him and acts like a lunatic. Did he have a fair share of mistakes and stupid decisons? Sure. But some of the stuff written and said is ridiculous.

In any case he has certainly mellowed over the years. In Italy and in Spain he was arguing with everyone under the sun. Now he doesn't do that, he's a lot calmer. But that's a problem too cause you know what, he doesn't smile... He is in good relations with Benitez, Pep, but now he will inevitably have his famous meltdown and will 'combust' and destroy the club and everything it stands for.
Click to expand...

I'm tipsy, and reading this has given me a hangover.
 
At least if he repeats his third year at Chelsea, our second place finish will come with an FA Cup and League Cup double :)
 
By midway through year 2 of his second stint at Chelsea he was talking about a conspiracy by referees and seemingly football as a whole against his side, as well as picking fights with the media and within months he was slagging off the club for not backing him in the market and doing post-match interviews for 7 minutes attacking his own players and distancing himself from the shit show that saw Chelsea possibly fighting relegation when he left. I'm not sure that suggests he's calmed since he came back to England.

I do think he's toned it down a bit at United, partially because he knows if he gets sacked that no other big club will go near him but also because he must be conscious of the reputation he's built and wants to prove it to be wrong so I wouldn't expect the same collapse next year (albeit I do think we will drop from 2nd next year as I think this year it flattered our performances and I feel the way we play has less potential for developing than Liverpool's and maybe Spurs'). That being said, he still has routinely criticised the players in public, distanced himself from any poor performances and had this weird habit of seeming to be almost more interested in proving himself right (about whatever he's trying to prove at the time) rather than focussing on getting the best results.
 
We can all appreciate patterns and a general pattern is that Mourinho struggles in his 3rd year. Or, is it that his teams struggle after having (a) successful seasons? A pattern was also that Mourinho wins the League in his 2nd Season. As, we know that pattern was broken. So......, patterns can be broken.

People need to realize that if Mourinho fails the team also fails and as OP said that could mean starting all over with a new manager. Whilst this could be better in the long run, it would be a gamble. And, the truth is that if we choose to view Mourinho's 2 season objectively we are improving as a team.

Yes, I can see that losing promising players hurts fans but unless a player is able to deliver on promise then they serve little to no purpose. I personally don't care if you could be a Ballon D'or future winner. Are you winning games for the team now and helping the team? Are you delivering on any of that potential now?

We need to realize that whilst the club has to look out for the future. The manager has the responsibility of delivering now. He cannot wait on people to deliver especially if he has 3 'persons with potential' in his team/squad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dargonk
Probably Mourinho's last chance with a top club. Football has gone past the days where a good defence and counter attacking football was enough to carry your team to championships as has been shown by Guardiola, Klopp and Zidane. If he doesn't deliver this year he'll most definitely will be sacked ( because let's face it, if we're not winning anything what's the point of watching his shit brand of football? ) and no other top club is going to touch him with a barge pole.
 
He didn't have his usual second season title win, so who knows what his third season will bring.

As you alluded to he's lost his edge, & so with that we seem to have a 'has been' manager that hasn't evolved his game, and has no real wish to do so.

Personally I don't expect any major tantrums, or fallouts next season, they'll just be this ongoing underlying resentment & frustration from fans, it just depends how far it will be pushed before there is a parting of the ways, I can see it becoming a situation very much like LvG's, but over a longer period of time.
 
Let's be honest here. The meltdown is more likely to happen, than us winning anything significant. And far, far more likely than us turning into Real Madrid 2012, scoring 120 goals and 100 points.
 
I don't get how people can't see this coming a fecking mile off.
 
Pyro19 said:
Probably Mourinho's last chance with a top club. Football has gone past the days where a good defence and counter attacking football was enough to carry your team to championships as has been shown by Guardiola, Klopp and Zidane. If he doesn't deliver this year he'll most definitely will be sacked ( because let's face it, if we're not winning anything what's the point of watching his shit brand of football? ) and no other top club is going to touch him with a barge pole.
Click to expand...

Leicester won the league title playing exactly that way. If we didn’t have a bunch of players with spaghetti spinal cord, Jose could have won the league title in the just concluded season.

Good defence & counter attacking football beat all the top 6 teams. The method works, we are just cursed with some of the most mediocre players in that squad. Jose should sanction a massive clearout - starting with the self entitled Frenchman called Martial.
 
MoBeats said:
I don't get how people can't see this coming a fecking mile off.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I don’t think the players seem particularly happy under his leadership, I don’t think he’s really getting the best out of them and I don’t think he’s the long term option.

Jose is obviously a great manager, but is he the right manager for the squad we have? Debatable for me.
 
Good post @Ban

Pyro19 said:
Probably Mourinho's last chance with a top club. Football has gone past the days where a good defence and counter attacking football was enough to carry your team to championships as has been shown by Guardiola, Klopp and Zidane. If he doesn't deliver this year he'll most definitely will be sacked ( because let's face it, if we're not winning anything what's the point of watching his shit brand of football? ) and no other top club is going to touch him with a barge pole.
Click to expand...

Absolute horseshit.
 
Bwuk said:
Agreed.

I don’t think the players seem particularly happy under his leadership, I don’t think he’s really getting the best out of them and I don’t think he’s the long term option.

Jose is obviously a great manager, but is he the right manager for the squad we have? Debatable for me.
Click to expand...

I’m sure Pep/Zidane would have won the CL with a defence comprising of Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Blind, Shaw and Darmian.

That we finished above Liverpool, Spurs & Chelsea is a testament to Jose’s managerial acumen. That squad is painfully average. It’s extremely difficult to win the league with mediocre players who also have poor attitude.
 
Son Of Sam said:
I’m sure Pep/Zidane would have won the CL with a defence comprising of Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Blind, Shaw and Darmian.

That we finished above Liverpool, Spurs & Chelsea is a testament to Jose’s managerial acumen. That squad is painfully average. It’s extremely difficult to win the league with mediocre players who also have poor attitude.
Click to expand...
You speak as if it's his first season here. He's spent decent amounts on Bailly and Lindelöf. Nobody's forcing him to play Jones and Smalling.
 
Honestly unless something massive changes over the window we won't even close the massive gap in skill between us and City so he'll have his excuse to not winning a title. I'm okay with not winning it this year simply because I don't think he's the guy (but do note, some of the most loved players (Martial) aren't good either). I just want to avoid a meltdown at all costs. We can't not finish in the top 4. There's already limited options in terms of top tier coaches around and with all these clubs hiring questionable managers around the world we need to have some type of pull for a manager when replacing Jose. I literally think PSG, Madrid, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Bayern could all be in the market next year as (I feel) their hires are not exactly guaranteed success stories.

Tl;dr Just get us through the season with at worst fourth place so we are at least better off than where we started with him.
 
Don't give a shite about his third year at other clubs. If he doesn't mount a title challenge and the football doesn't improve, he should walk.
 
People don't seem to realise Mourinho is a lunatic at the best of times. In 2011 he was asking por qué the referees favoured Barcelona. The following season his team got the record points and goals in La Liga. He was a cnut to Joe Cole when Chelsea were winning as much as when they when they were 'losing.' Joe Cole thinks Mourinho is a brilliant motivator, by the way - something which might be kept in mind when discussing Mourinho's treatment of Luke Shaw.

Also, Mourinho's third seasons have been pretty great. He won the FA Cup and League Cup at Chelsea, got to the CL semi-final and finished second in the league. At Real Madrid, he came second in the league, got to the CL semi-final (losing on penalties) and lost the Copa del Rey final to Simeone's Atletico. This might be termed an average season if it was another manager. Sir Alex had a few seasons where he didn't win something but that didn't mean it was a meltdown. It was only when the media starting talking up a third season meltdown that one actually occurred; perhaps there is a bit of cause and effect there, eh?

Pyro19 said:
Football has gone past the days where a good defence and counter attacking football was enough to carry your team to championships as has been shown by Guardiola, Klopp and Zidane.
Click to expand...
Klopp hasn't won a championship for six seasons, Zidane was terrible in the league this season and beaten by a more counter-attacking Barcelona and last season people were talking about how Pep's football couldn't win a championship.
 
SS said:
You speak as if it's his first season here. He's spent decent amounts on Bailly and Lindelöf. Nobody's forcing him to play Jones and Smalling.
Click to expand...

If he’s not promised huge funds for a clearout....I don’t see how you expect him to get rid of the mediocre players.

I also don’t see how a manager that has worked with Ramos, Lucio, Terry, Gallas and Carvalho would suddenly feel Jones & Smalling are too quality defenders.
 
Son Of Sam said:
I’m sure Pep/Zidane would have won the CL with a defence comprising of Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Blind, Shaw and Darmian.

That we finished above Liverpool, Spurs & Chelsea is a testament to Jose’s managerial acumen. That squad is painfully average. It’s extremely difficult to win the league with mediocre players who also have poor attitude.
Click to expand...
Yep. It's a miracle that a guy that spent £300m finished second. Well done to him.
 
The meltdown usually follows some brilliant success. The trend has been bucked already, maybe this one will too.
 
Adisa said:
Yep. It's a miracle that a guy that spent £300m finished second. Well done to him.
Click to expand...

£300m is the new £30m, get over it. He spent £300m but your back 5 in the cup final were all Sir Alex’s acquisitions. What does that tell you? It simply means £300m in this day & age gets you nothing. Coutinho is 50% of the amount you quoted. Neymar is 70% of it. Mbappe is 60% of it.....

The standard has fallen, I guess...
 
MDFC Manager said:
I don't see the natural progression that needs to be there for a solid title challenge, given the opposition. A repeat of last season is more likely, but wouldn't bet on that either.
Click to expand...

So, basically we can all guess at what's going to happen. And your guess is that we'll do poorly. I think what many fail to see is that everyone starts with 0 points next season. It doesn't matter what happened this year because we are all starting over. Yes, an established style of play should make things easier but there are no guarantees.

Re the pending doom, I have see rain clouds many times and it didn't rain..
 
Pyro19 said:
Probably Mourinho's last chance with a top club. Football has gone past the days where a good defence and counter attacking football was enough to carry your team to championships as has been shown by Guardiola, Klopp and Zidane. If he doesn't deliver this year he'll most definitely will be sacked ( because let's face it, if we're not winning anything what's the point of watching his shit brand of football? ) and no other top club is going to touch him with a barge pole.
Click to expand...

Liverpool finished comfortably below us, lost to us, only managed 1 win against any top 5 team, and won nothing. Not sure what that proved.

People are getting carried away as usual. City raised the bar and no one else was close. The closest WAS Mourinho and United. Real have been dominating Europe for years.

All this game has passed him by and counter attacking football is dead nonsense annoys me. It's the same bollocks people liked to spout about Ferguson whenever United weren't sitting top of the pile.

Jose is too stubborn for his own good and I reckon could easily go off the deep end...but this was just as true of him when he was supposedly the greatest thing ever... you would think we finished 10th with the way people go on.
 
Son Of Sam said:
If he’s not promised huge funds for a clearout....I don’t see how you expect him to get rid of the mediocre players.

I also don’t see how a manager that has worked with Ramos, Lucio, Terry, Gallas and Carvalho would suddenly feel Jones & Smalling are too quality defenders.
Click to expand...
That's nothing to do with what I said. You said the quality of defenders was shite when he arrived. He's had four transfer windows and has now brought in three new defenders. If, next season, we're still relying on Valencia, Young, Smalling and Jones, he can't blame anyone but himself. Like I said, nobody's forcing him to play these 'mediocre' players you talk about. He's had his chances to bring in new starters.
 
Son Of Sam said:
£300m is the new £30m, get over it. He spent £300m but your back 5 in the cup final were all Sir Alex’s acquisitions. What does that tell you? It simply means £300m in this day & age gets you nothing. Coutinho is 50% of the amount you quoted. Neymar is 70% of it. Mbappe is 60% of it.....

The standard has fallen, I guess...
Click to expand...
£300m is the new £30m. What planet are you on? Only one club spent more than we did in the same period. Not going to say our squad is Madrid quality but it wasn't some miracle we finished second. Most people had us thereabouts before a ball was kicked.
You complain about the back 5. He signed two centre backs and didn't use them. He also looks like going into the new season with the same fullbacks.
Give it a rest. Our position last season was par of the course.
 
Last edited:
Son Of Sam said:
£300m is the new £30m, get over it. He spent £300m but your back 5 in the cup final were all Sir Alex’s acquisitions. What does that tell you? It simply means £300m in this day & age gets you nothing. Coutinho is 50% of the amount you quoted. Neymar is 70% of it. Mbappe is 60% of it.....

The standard has fallen, I guess...
Click to expand...
Come on. :lol: You're trying to tell us we haven't spent enough?
 
As an external, I think Mourinho had his meltdown last season: he won zero tituli, never was in contention for the League against his nemesis Guardiola, crashed out to mighty Sevilla at home in the CL R16 and put the club pedigree to the cleaners in the presser, lost the FA Cup final to his big enemy Conte after their epic bust up, falled out with several star players and is going to spend a lot again this Summer to have his own team, at last. He can’t really do worse than that, so I expect better results next season, not the Armageddon.
 
SS said:
That's nothing to do with what I said. You said the quality of defenders was shite when he arrived. He's had four transfer windows and has now brought in three new defenders. If, next season, we're still relying on Valencia, Young, Smalling and Jones, he can't blame anyone but himself. Like I said, nobody's forcing him to play these 'mediocre' players you talk about. He's had his chances to bring in new starters.
Click to expand...

There were bigger problems in the other departments of the squad, won’t he sort them? Rooney left, needed to be replaced. 25% of the amount you quoted went to Rooney’s replacement.

You guys keep pretending that the squad Jose inherited wasn’t shit. Our best finish was 4th since Fergie left....He’s not had anything to cover up all the holes in the squad.

Jose bought only 7 players in his first 2 years. Do you really think 7 players were enough to take us from 5th(LVG’s last campaign) to the title? Please be realistic.....
 
Son Of Sam said:
I’m sure Pep/Zidane would have won the CL with a defence comprising of Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Blind, Shaw and Darmian.

That we finished above Liverpool, Spurs & Chelsea is a testament to Jose’s managerial acumen. That squad is painfully average. It’s extremely difficult to win the league with mediocre players who also have poor attitude.
Click to expand...
What? No-one is forcing him to keep some of those players. He is the one who has decided not to buy a LB for 2 years and seemingly decided to again ignore that position. In two seasons he bought 2 centre backs - Bailly and Lindelof. Neither played in the FA Cup final. Smalling is a favorite of Mourinho. We are hearing Young will play 50 games next season. And then halfway through the season he'll moan about not having enough funds to challenge City. It's season 3 now. He will have a starting 11 of his signings. If he can't get it to work then it's time to go.

He brought Pogba and hasn't got the best out of him. Brought Mkhi, didn't like him. Replaced him with Sanchez who hasn't done any better probably worse. There are too many excuses being given. We have some good players but also some mediocre ones. He isn't improving our good players both individually and also fitting them into a cohesive unit nor is he being ruthless with some of the deadwood.
 
SS said:
Come on. :lol: You're trying to tell us we haven't spent enough?
Click to expand...

No we have not - considering the amount of rebuilding job Jose inherited from his predecessors.

Pep that inherited a far better squad that actually won the league under Pellegrini has spent more.
 
MoBeats said:
I don't get how people can't see this coming a fecking mile off.
Click to expand...
Maybe because we're a little less easy to condition than you are. For you, perhaps, Martial leaving means a meltdown. This is the narrative the media wish to push. But it's easy to find example where this was not the case. De Bruyne, Lukaku and Salah had all left or were leaving by 2014/15 and, yet, Chelsea won the title that season.
 
abdo99 said:
What? No-one is forcing him to keep some of those players. He is the one who has decided not to buy a LB for 2 years and seemingly decided to again ignore that position.
Click to expand...

He can only work with the budget he’s given. If there are more important areas to fix, the defence becomes secondary. It does not mean Jose is happy with the quality of the defence. Who’d be happy after managing Ramos/Terry to Jones/Smalling?

In two seasons he bought 2 centre backs - Bailly and Lindelof. Neither played in the FA Cup final. Smalling is a favorite of Mourinho. We are hearing Young will play 50 games next season. And then halfway through the season he'll moan about not having enough funds to challenge City. It's season 3 now. He will have a starting 11 of his signings. If he can't get it to work then it's time to go.
Click to expand...

Smalling is not a favourite of Jose. There’s no quality Smalling has that can interest a top manager like Jose. Smalling was playing cos he was the only defender that didn’t have any injury spell. Bailly/Jones had long term injuries that kept them out of the squad.

He brought Pogba and hasn't got the best out of him. Brought Mkhi, didn't like him. Replaced him with Sanchez who hasn't done any better probably worse. There are too many excuses being given. We have some good players but also some mediocre ones. He isn't improving our good players both individually and also fitting them into a cohesive unit nor is he being ruthless with some of the deadwood.
Click to expand...

How can he get the best out of Pogba when he doesn’t trust the mediocrity behind Pogba? Have you ever wondered why we sit 6 players behind the ball at all times? It’s because of the mediocrity in the defence. Jose simply does not trust his centre-halves and he cannot do much about it because even the midfield and some areas in the attack need to be fixed.

The whole shebang about him being too defensive even against mid-table teams is because of our defenders. That squad reeks of mediocrity. No other manager could have pushed us to 2nd like Jose did last season. The biggest club in Europe is playing Smalling(no World Cup) and Jones(bench-player for 3 Lions) in their defence and you don’t think the board must take 100% responsibility for this abomination?

Come on, mate......
 
Son Of Sam said:
£300m is the new £30m, get over it. He spent £300m but your back 5 in the cup final were all Sir Alex’s acquisitions. What does that tell you? It simply means £300m in this day & age gets you nothing. Coutinho is 50% of the amount you quoted. Neymar is 70% of it. Mbappe is 60% of it.....

The standard has fallen, I guess...
Click to expand...

:lol::lol::lol:
 
Son Of Sam said:
There were bigger problems in the other departments of the squad, won’t he sort them? Rooney left, needed to be replaced. 25% of the amount you quoted went to Rooney’s replacement.

You guys keep pretending that the squad Jose inherited wasn’t shit. Our best finish was 4th since Fergie left....He’s not had anything to cover up all the holes in the squad.

Jose bought only 7 players in his first 2 years. Do you really think 7 players were enough to take us from 5th(LVG’s last campaign) to the title? Please be realistic.....
Click to expand...
You'd have a point if he simply couldn't buy defenders. At the end of the day, he's bought three, so it doesn't seem like funds have prevented him from strengthening the area. Was he forced to sign Lindelöf for £35M? No, he wanted him and he got him. We can't use lack of funds as an excuse if he's getting the players he wants and then not playing them. Who replaced Rooney anyway?

The squad wasn't great, but you're making it out like Jose's been feeding off scraps.

Seeing as £300m is apparently peanuts now, how much more do we need to spend?
 
The way people overrate Pep's defense and shit on ours you'd think he had Maldini and Nesta while we had Titus Bramble, all just to make excuses for Mourinho. Their defense most of the season was frigging Delph, Otamendi and Stones. 3 seasons and four transfer windows and all that money spent we're still playing Smalling and Jones ahead of the CB's we spent money on and using it as an excuse for Jose. Its really hilarious how Pep suddenly has a world class 11 players on the pitch while Jose has to do with a bunch of dross and we should all be grateful
 
Status
Not open for further replies.