There's a lot of optimism in the house this weekend

Stanley Road

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Is some of it a bit over the top? Lets hope not but the next few weeks will tell

For anyone that has a regular visit to Koptalk will know how delirious they were two weels ago, now they're all fight for the noose

Much better performance yesterday yes, Newcastle WERE awfull though.

"Were gonna win the league", Hmmmm, have to wait and see about that

One thing is for sure, if we ever lose games playing with that spirit then the fans will not be so quick to criticise
 
i dont think anyone's getting carried away. we know what's around the corner and one good game again st a side who allowed us play like no one at OT this season has, is not the be all and end all. but the spirit was good and we needed to get a few goals in the premiership, needed to thump somebody.
i still think the next two league games will be a struggle, and will need a fight to get something out of.
but we have something to carry forward now! and the idiots all lost as well.
i dont fear depor and basle though, bring them on. <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
 
Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>Much better performance yesterday yes, Newcastle WERE awfull though.

</strong><hr></blockquote>


Newcastle played a full strength side and have been performing well lately.

Maybe Stan, just maybe, they were awful because we made them look awful.

Of course it's too soon to start talking about a revival - especially as that team yesterday will be broken up almost immediately.

But we've waited three months to see a good performance like that, so let us enjoy it!
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Exactly, it seems to be one extreme or the other with a lot of people in here. We're either piss poor and in need of wholesale changes or we're fecking title favourites all in the space of a week!

I wonder sometimes if a lot of peole in here have a clue about football at all! Yes yesterday was a marked improvement, probably our best performance this season, but the problems that have been plaguing us for so long haven't just miraculously disappeared. They're still there and need to be addressed.

And one thing is for sure - Arsenal and Liverpool will most certainly not be as generous as Newcastle were yesterday....
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


Maybe Stan, just maybe, they were awful because we made them look awful.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, we did take advantage of their awfulness very well

I'm sure sir Bobby was very disappointed with their woeful defending. While the game was on i felt we would get 10, i also thought they'd get 6
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<a href="http://www.observer.co.uk/sport/story/0,6903,846506,00.html" target="_blank">Borrowed from the observer</a>

Reports of Manchester United's demise have clearly been exaggerated, although not as wildly as claims that Newcastle United might be capable of overtaking them in the Premiership table.

Manchester United were far too strong for possibly the most feeble opponents seen at Old Trafford all season. Ruud van Nistelrooy looked almost sheepish afterwards when receiving the man-of-the-match award for scoring a hat-trick.

Newcastle were so bad, it might be advisable to reserve judgment on Manchester United's revival until the forthcoming matches against Liverpool and Arsenal. Sir Alex Ferguson could have put out a team of reserves and collected all three points here, which is more or less what he ended up doing
 
There's no way we can predict our season until we've played Arsenal and Liverpool.

I'm not over optimistic, which is why I want to enjoy yesterday.
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>There's no way we can predict our season until we've played Arsenal and Liverpool.

I'm not over optimistic, which is why I want to enjoy yesterday.</strong><hr></blockquote>

well said livvie :D
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Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>Is some of it a bit over the top? Lets hope not but the next few weeks will tell

For anyone that has a regular visit to Koptalk will know how delirious they were two weels ago, now they're all fight for the noose

Much better performance yesterday yes, Newcastle WERE awfull though.

"Were gonna win the league", Hmmmm, have to wait and see about that

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think you should try to enjoy the results which might be good for the soul atm. ;)
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Good job the armed forces during the war didn't have Stanley's negativity.


After Dunkirk he'd have said we had no chance.

;) ;)
 
Were Newcastle really that bad? I didn't think so... but my brain is still suffering from the liberal application of bitter I had yesterday to dull the anticipated pain of a hiding from the Geordies.

Either that or the Observer is having another bout of ABU feeling.
 
Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>One thing is for sure, if we ever lose games playing with that spirit then the fans will not be so quick to criticise</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep. You can't always play your best, but you can always try your hardest and give everything you've got. That's all we ask.
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This week was the first time that we have capitalised on slip ups by Livershite and the Arse. So we have every right to be optimistic. If we beat Liverpool next week we will have gone from 8 points to 2 behind in 8 days. We played really well yesterday. Okay there were a few defensive mistakes but look at the back line, no Rio, no gaz and Larry going off after 50 minutes compared to the front line of Newcastle we were always going to be prone to the odd mistake.

What really impressed me was for the first time in the league this season was the fluency of our attacking. Slick passing and decisive play and excellent movement. i thought Forlan was outstanding and even Quinton Fortune had a good game. I genuinly believe that we could have scored against any defence yesterday
 
Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>
One thing is for sure, if we ever lose games playing with that spirit then the fans will not be so quick to criticise</strong><hr></blockquote>

Absolutely.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Good job the armed forces during the war didn't have Stanley's negativity.


After Dunkirk he'd have said we had no chance.

;) ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

You're wrong

I'd have said "Hold on chaps lets make sure were safe"

You'd have had the victory flag up weeks before the battle was over

;)
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Originally posted by Stanley Road:
<strong>

You're wrong

I'd have said "Hold on chaps lets make sure were safe"

You'd have had the victory flag up weeks before the battle was over

;) </strong><hr></blockquote>


nowt wrong with that stan me ol' china.


think positive..


if we feck up, so beit..at least we can dream this week. ;)
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Originally posted by Niall:
<strong>

I wonder sometimes if a lot of peole in here have a clue about football at all! </strong><hr></blockquote>

you actually bother to wonder that?

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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I thought the hunger in the play yesterday was brilliant, haven't seen the lads chase down every ball like that in many a long day.

If we can keep playing with that hunger the form will come. Nobody doubts the abilities of the players but the hunger had been missing from most games this season. This made the absence of a player like Keane all the more significant.....

If we can show that heart over the next month...well I'm hopeful...........

As for Scholesy yesterday.....


Sometimes we forget....Paul Scholes.....one love...
 
the performance showed we still have great players in the team and hopefully there'll be no need for a clearout.

with 5 first team players out + veron, i thought we had a solid looking team.. 1 or 2 additions to the bench should do for this season. and if veron and forlan can start playin well for us then maybe we won't need anymore players in the summer either!
 
I don't think we'll get many opportunities like that again this season...good confidence booster against a poor team AND the other two slipping up.

Yes lets make the most of celebrating, I only hope that failure to beat shit like Bolton, Villa, West Ham, Ciddy etc don't go against us next May like it did last year.
 
I really thought Newcastle would beat us, and I can't remember fans in general being less confident ahead of a Newcastle derby before - certainly our odds were poor. But that wasn't taking into account a brilliant turn of fate. Veron had been called up to Japan and was unfit to play. With so many first team midfielders out, he was forced to play all his remaining first team attacking players and most significantly playing the best of all the United players, Paul Scholes, into midfield.

I've argued for a long time that Scholes is better than Veron, especially in the Premiership as he is the complete midfielder. He can press, mark, tackle, pass short or long, awesome first touch passing, aggressive and physical, inspired. In many ways he's what Beckham wishes he was - but he's not, he's a right winger imo and until Beckham gets back to the right wing, he won't be as effective as Scholes. So imo, Scholes is our best midfielder and best player.

We had to play all our strikers yesterday, and, credit to the Boss, he dropped Phil after the City match and tried out Fortune there. Scholes and Fortune is a much more effective premiership central pairing than Veron and Phil - if we choose the former then I think we have a chance of getting some points out of those two games. If we play the latter pairing, we're fecked. So its in Alex's hands, but I think he was forced into dropping Veron rather than choosing to. I think he was forced to go 4-4-2 rather than choosing to. I'm worried that he might make his usual choices for those games, of Veron in a 4-5-1. That would be suicidal.

Our upcoming games are:
Tue Nov 26 2002
UEFA Champions League Phase Two Group D
Basle v Man Utd 19:45

Sun Dec 01 2002
Barclaycard Premiership
Liverpool v Man Utd 12:15

Tue Dec 03 2002
Worthington Cup Fourth Round
Burnley v Man Utd 19:45

Sat Dec 07 2002
Barclaycard Premiership
Man Utd v Arsenal 12:15

Wed Dec 11 2002
UEFA Champions League Phase Two Group D
Man Utd v D Coruna 19:45

We basically have big game after big game twice a week apart from the Burnley game which we'll have to play kids only. feck knows if anyone else will be injured, Blanc is a doubt for Basle. There's a chance though that David Beckham, Rio Ferdinand, Roy Keane and Nicky Butt will be back for this little run of games:

Sat Dec 14 2002
Barclaycard Premiership
Man Utd v West Ham Utd 12:15

Sun Dec 22 2002
Barclaycard Premiership
Blackburn Rovers v Man Utd 14:00

Thu Dec 26 2002
Barclaycard Premiership
Middlesbrough v Man Utd 16:00

Sat Dec 28 2002
Barclaycard Premiership
Man Utd v Birmingham City 15:00

Wed Jan 01 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Man Utd v Sunderland 15:00

Sat Jan 11 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
West Bromwich Albion v Man Utd

If we get our performances up and our players back for that run of games, we could get a lot of points of those. It could be '96 style Roy Keane revival. So, if we beat Arsenal and Liverpool, we imo will be ahead of them, by some margin, by mid January. If we lose to both of them, for example by playing Veron in 4-5-1, then even if we do well in the next run of games, which might be hard with the dip in confidence, we'll not be in a position to catch up. In fact we'd probably be 8th in the League.

To be fair, even with the team we had yesterday, we're going to have a tough challenge to beat them, particularly looking at our recent records against them, but both of those sides do seem to be bottling it big time. We may well be able to rely on those 2 self-destructing as usual, though Arsenal showed last season that they can put on long unbeaten runs - but so can we when we've got Keane, and the odd January purchase, of Gudjohnsen for example, might give us a bit more cover and firepower to beat Arsenal and Liverpool in the closing run of games:

Tue Mar 18 2003
UEFA Champions League Phase Two Group D
D Coruna v Man Utd 19:45

Sat Mar 22 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Man Utd v Fulham 15:00

Sat Apr 05 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Man Utd v Liverpool 15:00

Sat Apr 12 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Newcastle United v Man Utd 15:00

Sat Apr 19 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Man Utd v Blackburn Rovers 15:00

Mon Apr 21 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Arsenal v Man Utd 15:00

Sat Apr 26 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Tottenham Hotspur v Man Utd 15:00

Sat May 03 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Man Utd v Charlton Athletic 15:00

Sun May 11 2003
Barclaycard Premiership
Everton v Man Utd 15:00

So we do have a chance of redemption, but its said that "there is a thin line between success and failure" and that line will be drawn in the next few matches.
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson
I'm worried that he might make his usual choices for those games, of Veron in a 4-5-1. That would be suicidal.<hr></blockquote>

Are you including Europe or talking about just the league? I would certainly be nervous about starting with him against Liverpool but I wouldn't start without him in Basle. He's been quite effective for us in Europe.
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Originally posted by Niall:
<strong>Exactly, it seems to be one extreme or the other with a lot of people in here. We're either piss poor and in need of wholesale changes or we're fecking title favourites all in the space of a week!

I wonder sometimes if a lot of peole in here have a clue about football at all! Yes yesterday was a marked improvement, probably our best performance this season, but the problems that have been plaguing us for so long haven't just miraculously disappeared. They're still there and need to be addressed.

And one thing is for sure - Arsenal and Liverpool will most certainly not be as generous as Newcastle were yesterday....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Gloryhunting muppet ;)
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Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>

Are you including Europe or talking about just the league? I would certainly be nervous about starting with him against Liverpool but I wouldn't start without him in Basle. He's been quite effective for us in Europe.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The premier league - champions league success is largely a lottery as its a Cup competition, and I'm not sure we will be able to beat Valencia or Real Madrid in the Final - though the home support might swing it our way. Veron's done well in Europe but we've played poor sides, and I think he struggled last season against the better sides, notably Leverkusen last year, though he was great against Deportivo. He should do well against Basle though - Deportivo would worry me a bit.
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The premier league - champions league success is largely a lottery as its a Cup competition, and I'm not sure we will be able to beat Valencia or Real Madrid in the Final - though the home support might swing it our way. Veron's done well in Europe but we've played poor sides, and I think he struggled last season against the better sides, notably Leverkusen last year, though he was great against Deportivo. He should do well against Basle though - Deportivo would worry me a bit.<hr></blockquote>

Nevertheless, I take it you are not suggesting we leave Veron out of the upcoming CL games.

As for the the PL games, I would prefer a pacy 4-4-2 with Scholsey in the middle WHERE HE BELONGS, but not sure it's gonna happen.
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Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>

Nevertheless, I take it you are not suggesting we leave Veron out of the upcoming CL games.

As for the the PL games, I would prefer a pacy 4-4-2 with Scholsey in the middle WHERE HE BELONGS, but not sure it's gonna happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i also think it's a doubt. i like 4-4-2, but i also like veron.. so it's a difficult choice next weekend.. i hope he does well during midweek though.. it'll give SAF what he's always craved - selection headaches because everyone is on form.
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From TeamTalk:
Sir Alex Ferguson has warned Liverpool his United team will be "fully prepared" tactically for next week's showdown at Anfield.
Ferguson watched as his men thrashed Newcastle 5-3 on Saturday morning and then promised he would approach the trip to Merseyside with a tactical shake-up.
United have not beaten Liverpool since September 1999, but Ferguson is desperate to avoid a sixth straight defeat against the Reds when they square up once again next Sunday.
The Scotsman said: "We will be setting ourselves up against Liverpool differently than we normally do.
"Whenever we have played them over the last few seasons we have attacked them with five or six players every time we have had the ball.
"This time we might not do that and it might give them a few more things to think about. We'll definitely be prepared the right way this time."
The comments suggest Ferguson will adopt a more cautious, counter-attacking style at the weekend, when he will be without plenty of big names including David Beckham, Roy Keane, Rio Ferdinand, Gary Neville and probably Nicky Butt as well.


Thats cause for optimism imo.
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>From TeamTalk:
Thats cause for optimism imo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

the world "cautious" does suggest he will go with Veron. and IMO Veron will be the center of the counter attack with those long passes of his.

i really doubt SAF will drop Veron. but it could be good if he did tho.. to show Veron that he's not above the club.
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As for Scholesy yesterday.....<hr></blockquote>
The difference playing Scoles over veron in the middle yesterday was dramatic...the pace & threat was there again with good interchange passing...Veron IMO, I'm afraid, is farting about too much in the PL with "window dressing" passing & stopping the team's natural rhythm (maybe the penny will never drop or perhaps he just can't do it!)...Scholes is workmanlike & so often deadly & is far & away, for me, the best man to hold this position outside of Europe....Veron for the CL yes but what an expensive add on. If we had paid less he might have seemed great mainly for Europe & as back up in the Premiership....but.. :rolleyes:
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Quite a conundrum for Fergie I would think. Perhaps this is crunch time and the choice to be made, Scholes or Veron. Don't envy him that one !
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
[QB]Scholes or Veron...QB]<hr></blockquote>

I think after yesterdays performance Scholes should be the first name in the line up, he was our entire midfield yesterday with Keane, Butt and Becks out and Giggs drifting up, left and right...
Credit ofcourse to Fortune with another great performance when he's needed.
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