The Winnipeg Jets return??? Say it aint so...

204Red

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According to the Globe and Mail the return of the NHL hockey to Winnipeg is a done deal.

Other media outlets claim the deal has not been finalized, but is very close to completion.

Having been at the final game before the Winnipeg Jets packed up and moved to Phoenix, I can tell you it was one of the most depressing sporting moments of my life, and one of those moments when a sporting moment was more than just a game.

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" An agreement to sell the National Hockey League’s Atlanta Thrashers to a Winnipeg group which plans to relocate the franchise to the Manitoba capital is done.

Sources confirmed tonight that preparations are being made for an announcement Tuesday, confirming the sale and transfer of the Thrashers to True North Sports and Entertainment, which owns and operates the Manitoba Moose of the American Hockey League and the MTS Centre arena, which would become the NHL team’s new home.

Gary Bettman, the commissioner of the National Hockey League, is expected to travel to Winnipeg to make the news official.

The announcement would end months of speculation about whether one of the NHL’s financially-troubled American sunbelt teams might move north, filling the void left when the Winnipeg Jets packed up and left for Phoenix in 1996, where they became the Coyotes.

Much of the talk this spring had centred on that failing franchise, which was bought by the league after being placed in bankruptcy by its former owner Jerry Moyes in 2009.

But sources in Winnipeg suggest that the Thrashers had in fact been the primary target of potential owners Mark Chipman and David Thomson all along, and that some months back, the NHL board of governors quietly approved the sale and transfer of the team, pending the negotiation of a purchase agreement between Atlanta Spirit LLC, the Thrashers’ owners, and True North.

In the meantime, no potential owner materialized who was prepared to keep the team in Georgia, and local governments there showed no interest in propping up the Thrashers.

“There seems to be a consensus there is going to be a team in Winnpeg,” former major league pitcher Tom Glavine, who had tried unsuccessfully to find new ownership for the hockey team in Atlanta, acknowledged last week. ““The question is who, and unfortunately the bullseye seems to be on the Thrashers’ back.”

When it appeared this spring that the Coyotes might also be in play, after a deal to sell the team to Matthew Hulsizer underwritten by a municipal bond issue fell apart in the face of political opposition from the Goldwater Institute, the Winnipeg group sought to take advantage of what suddenly seemed a buyers’ market, with two teams available and no other potential owners or relocations sites on the horizon.

After the City of Glendale agreed to cover $25-million of the Coyotes losses for the 2011-2012 season, and the NHL opted to operate the club in Arizona for at least one more year, True North’s full focus returned to Atlanta, and a deal was hammered out this week.

Even before those final negotiations took place, the potential Winnipeg owners concluded an agreement with the Manitoba government which will allow revenues from a sports bar with slot machine to be used for improvements to the arena, and to be used towards the debt service on the building.

That’s consistent with what Manitoba premier Greg Selinger told reporters earlier this week, when he said that the provincial government had no interest in subsidizing an NHL team, but that the province had financially supported the renovation of the MTS Centre in the past, and would continue to be willing to do so.
 
How can a team pack up and move? I know Wimbledon did it, but they're retarded where as it sounds a pretty regular thing in Canada/America.
 
It's weird how Bettman and friends went out of their way to keep Phoenix from getting moved and now this seems to get done extremely fast without much protest from the league.

I always thought Phoenix had a lot more issues as a franchise than Atlanta.
 
How can a team pack up and move? I know Wimbledon did it, but they're retarded where as it sounds a pretty regular thing in Canada/America.

Imagine if the Premier League teams essentially had a monopoly on top-flight English football, no FA/FIFA to answer to, and relegation/promotion didn't exist. Do you think they'd keep a team in Blackpool or move that club to a larger, more profitable city?
 
How can a team pack up and move? I know Wimbledon did it, but they're retarded where as it sounds a pretty regular thing in Canada/America.

It's different since they have closed leagues and you can't win promotion and turn a team thats not invited to the party in the big league into a winner. So if a team is struggling economically, then there's no survival of the fittest type situation like in Europe where someone else take's it's place through promotion and a relocation might be necessary.

Also, in the NHL the richer teams have to help pay for the less profitable teams in a revenue sharing scheme, which makes a sale acceptable to the league, if they believe the new market is going to bring more people to games.

Obviously sucks for the fans though.

I'm not completely convinced Winipeg is such a great market since I've read they had some attendance issues before the Jets got moved to Phoenix. Somewhere like Hamilton or a second Toronto team might make more sense.

Not even sure Atlanta is such a bad market. One single playoff appearance in it's history. The poor management there never gave the team a chance to be successful.
 
Imagine if the Premier League teams essentially had a monopoly on top-flight English football, no FA/FIFA to answer to, and relegation/promotion didn't exist. Do you think they'd keep a team in Blackpool or move that club to a larger, more profitable city?

I had this type of argument in a pub back when Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes... saying that it would be a better and more profitable move if the team had moved to Dublin or Belfast. Ditto I argued that it would make the Premier league stronger and more profitable to have teams in both of those cities and Glasgow, Edinburgh and Cardiff... I was basically suggestion that the UK and Ireland merge into one professional league with several divisions... (there are already Welsh teams in the Football League as it is... one may actually make it up to the Premier league this season)... and there is plenty of president for multi-country leagues... all of which are still allowed to field "national" teams

teams in a revenue sharing scheme, which makes a sale acceptable to the league, if they believe the new market is going to bring more people to games.

Obviously sucks for the fans though.

I can tell you that growing up in Winnipeg, there was nothing more depressing than losing the Jets. Their last game was akin to going to a funeral... it was just awful.

They couldn't afford to compete before moving to Arizona, how do they envision competing in today's financial climate?

1. a new modern building, which the team itself controls... the old Jets did not control the revenues in their old building ie they made no money from Parking, food, drink, popcorn ect, that all went to a private company who controlled the building.

2. different owners, with much deeper pockets, who do control the building, which is already profitable due to all of the other concerts, shows, events that are held there regardless of hockey.

3. The Canadian economy is stronger than the American economy right now... when the Jets left in 96 the Canadian $$$ was worth about 0.60... right now $1 CDN = $1.03 USD.

4. Hockey just isn't all that popular in the US, but particularly the southern US... it makes more sense to move it to a markets where the game is popular and has a chance to succeed in the face of failure.
 
Loadsamoney in the 'Peg.

204 do you know if the Desmarais family is involved in the bid?
 
I'm not completely convinced Winnipeg is such a great market since I've read they had some attendance issues before the Jets got moved to Phoenix. Somewhere like Hamilton or a second Toronto team might make more sense.

Not even sure Atlanta is such a bad market. One single playoff appearance in it's history. The poor management there never gave the team a chance to be successful.

I do agree with you in some respects... Southern Ontario is the most logical choice to put a team... but then you have to deal with the league politics and cries from the Leafs and Buffalo that this new team is cutting into their territory.

Quebec City is also a good place for a team... so too would be a second franchise in either Detroit, Montreal or Toronto.

In the US I can not believe the NHL hasn't looked into markets like Las Vegas or Seattle.

But I am sure that Atlanta and hockey were not a good fit, the team was always destined to play at best 6th fiddle down there.
 
And yeah, the League, the Leafs and the Sabres do not want another team in southern Ontario. the two teams are worried at how it will affect their revenues.

Winnipeg is a great choice, if done correctly. They need to market trips from surrounding areas in MB, SK and western ON for one. It's the heartland of hockey.
 
Loadsamoney in the 'Peg.

204 do you know if the Desmarais family is involved in the bid?

No, its two guys named Chipman and Thomson... the latter is the CEO / owner of the Thomson / Reuters news agency and media empire.
 
Yeah, the Leafs and Buffalo don't want any competition for fans, but it seems like a good spot even if it's not possible due to politics.

Early days, but has there been any indication on how much these new (potential) Winnipeg owners are willing to spend on wages?

I think Atlanta could have been successful with a better product on the ice. It's a big city and if non-traditional markets like Tampa and Nashville can bring the fans to games why not Atlanta? Some NHL teams almost got relocated during a tough period, like the Penguins and Senators. Seems quite unthinkable now.

Personally, I just hope they never expand the league again, further diluting the talent and taking even more of the fringe NHL players from the European leagues.
 
Yeah, the Leafs and Buffalo don't want any competition for fans, but it seems like a good spot even if it's not possible due to politics.

Early day, but has there been any indication on how much these new (potential) Winnipeg owners are willing to spend on wages?

I think Atlanta could have been successful with a better product on the ice. It's a big city and if non-traditional markets like Tampa and Nashville can bring the fans to games why not Atlanta? Some NHL teams almost got relocated during a tough period, like the Penguins and Senators. Seems quite unthinkable now.

Personally, I just hope they never expand the league again, further diluting the talent and taking even more of the fringe NHL players from the European leagues.

With the NHL these days there is both a minimum you must spend on players salaries and a maximum you can spend... and the difference between the basement (which I think is around $40 Million) and the top end of the Salary cap (which I think is $54 Million) isn't that great.

Its not like European Football where sky is the limit at City, Chelsea, Real and to some degree United... or the lower end like Blackpool or Wigan... even the bottom feeders must pay competitive league sanctioned wages.

With all talk of relocation of several teams, the league might be better off as a whole by contracting / eliminating 2 of them (with the ownerless, money losing Phoenix Coyotes being the obvious 1st choice)... the league will never go this route, but it would be the smart thing to do.

Also with the recent expansion of the KHL don't be surprised if there is some sort of tournament, series between NHL teams and KHL teams in the near future.
 
With the NHL these days there is both a minimum you must spend on players salaries and a maximum you can spend... and the difference between the basement (which I think is around $40 Million) and the top end of the Salary cap (which I think is $54 Million) isn't that great.

I think the difference between the salary floor ($43.4 mil) and cap ($59.4 mil) is actually quite significant. It's two elite players, (about one mil short of Crosby and Malkin) or a bunch of good second liners. It's very hard winning the cup without spending some serious money or having a fair amount of great upcoming players on their ELCs. Or like last years champs, both.

With all talk of relocation of several teams, the league might be better off as a whole by contracting / eliminating 2 of them (with the ownerless, money losing Phoenix Coyotes being the obvious 1st choice)... the league will never go this route, but it would be the smart thing to do.

I would love for that to happen, but as you say it's very unlikely.


KHL? admittedly I don't follow the hockey scene that closely.

The Kontinental Hockey League = the Russian hockey league funded by Russian sugar daddies/oligarchs, which has been becoming stronger in recent years.
 
I think the difference between the salary floor ($43.4 mil) and cap ($59.4 mil) is actually quite significant. It's two elite players, (about one mil short of Crosby and Malkin) or a bunch of good second liners. It's very hard winning the cup without spending some serious money or having a fair amount of great upcoming players on their ELCs. Or like last years champs, both .

I agree there is room to sign players and spend some money... but I was highlighting the fact that even the gap between the lowest paying teams in the NHL and those who hit the Salary Cap is nowhere near the same gap as it exists in modern football. Look at what the top 4 salary payers in the EPL shell out to their players and then look at what the bottom 4 pay their players... I think you'll find quite a large gap, and I'm pretty sure that would be consistent across all the major European football leagues

Now the UEFA fair play rules will be aiming to make that gap smaller, but they have a long way to go.
 
No prob doc.

I agree there is room to sign players and spend some money... but I was highlighting the fact that even the gap between the lowest paying teams in the NHL and those who hit the Salary Cap is nowhere near the same gap as it exists in modern football.

And the UEFA fair play rules will be aiming to make that gap smaller

Ok, I agree there.

I just wish more teams were able to pay to the cap so that the league would become more competitive. Must be awful being an Islands fan for instance. I read that the only reason they reached the cap floor this year is because of the Yashin contract buyout, that they still have to pay for, is counted towards the cap. Not much hope for glory with those kind of limitations.

Hopefully they get that new arena otherwise I can see them moving too. Would be sad though, it's such a classic team.
 
Atlanta is home to an extremely fickle fan base that rarely changes its collective ways. They seem to enjoy "American" sports here like baseball, football (granted they're college fans over NFL), and basketball. There is a small market for hockey and soccer. This state really supports NASCAR and golf for whatever reason ($$$).

The Thrashers are probably better off in a town that will support hockey. Personally, I think the NHL should contract a few clubs as should MLB and NBA, but it won't happen. The leagues have over-expanded by 2-6 clubs per.
 
MrM

While this story is clearly front page news in Winnipeg, I am led to believe it is barely causing a ripple in Georgia media circles, confined to the odd paragraph at the back of the sports pages... is this so?
 
Not so fast...

Still a few more hurdles to overcome

I will say that even at this late date, I have seen deals like this fall apart.

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WINNIPEG FREE PRESS
Negotiations inch forward on Thrashers deal

By: Gary Lawless

Posted: 05/26/2011 10:27 am.

A deal between True North Sports and Entertainment, the Atlanta Spirit Group and the NHL to move the Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg is inching forward but still requires some work.

Multiple sources involved in the negotiations said this morning there are a number of items remaining to be worked out before a deal can be closed and an official announcement made.

A source said the purchase price of $110 million for the Thrashers and a $60 million relocation fee going to the league are set.

Details described as "consent, owner approval, proof of financial information, etc." remain on the table.

"There are complex issues that take time to work through," said a source.

It's understood none of the issues are deal-breakers but until they are resolved the sale cannot be completed.

There were hopes that an announcement could be made Thursday or Friday but it appears none will be possible until next week unless major progress can be made in short order.

Plans are being worked on in both Winnipeg and Atlanta to deliver this news once it's available.
 
I believe that the Phoenix organisation owns the Jets name and identity (just like Dallas owned the North Stars when Minnesota got their team back), but could they buy it off them? Personally I would prefer it if they became the Jets again when/if Winnipeg get their team back. It's all a bit complicated, since for instance the Coyotes have continued to honor the retired Jets numbers. Will they stop doing that if the Winnipeg team would become the Jets?

Seems to me like that Winnipeg would need to find a new identity.
 
get in there!!!!


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Winnipeg Sun... May 31

After 15 years of hoping, 19 months of speculation, 12 days of anticipation and countless hours of behind-the-scenes work, the day has finally arrived.

The NHL is back in Winnipeg.

Winnipeg’s True North Sports and Entertainment has purchased the Atlanta Thrashers from the Atlanta Spirit group. The news was officially announced on Tuesday morning at MTS Centre, and the yet-to-be-named team will begin play this fall at the downtown Winnipeg arena.

“I am excited beyond words to announce our purchase of the Atlanta Thrashers,” True North chairman Mark Chipman said. “We’ve received the call we’ve long been waiting for.

The purchase is subject to the approval of the NHL board of governors, which will meet on June 21. True North will attempt to sell 13,000 season tickets before that meeting to prove to the NHL the league can be viable for the long term.

“It is nice to be back in Winnipeg after all these years,” NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said. “We get to be back in a place we wish we hadn’t left in 1996.”

Bettman was at the head table along with Chipman, True North partner David Thomson, Manitoba premier Greg Selinger, and True North president and CEO Jim Ludlow.

“The NHL is going to be here for good, and I mean that in every sense of the word,” Selinger said.
 
Hopefully it's nothing stupidly poignant like The Winnipeg Flood.

Has to be the Jets.
 
Atlanta is home to an extremely fickle fan base that rarely changes its collective ways. They seem to enjoy "American" sports here like baseball, football (granted they're college fans over NFL), and basketball. There is a small market for hockey and soccer. This state really supports NASCAR and golf for whatever reason ($$$).

The Thrashers are probably better off in a town that will support hockey. Personally, I think the NHL should contract a few clubs as should MLB and NBA, but it won't happen. The leagues have over-expanded by 2-6 clubs per.

Atlanta sucking as a sports city is down to several things:

1) Demographics - as recently as 10 years ago, the city was 61% black. Hockey, baseball and soccer are almost non-existent in the black communities, so when there's no interest from the majority of the population, it's hard to build a fanbase. Interest in hockey is almost non-existent in ANY of the community given that snow is still a big deal. The Braves do well enough but attendance still sucks when it's not a weekend.

2) Transplants - Atlanta and the suburbs are growing because people are moving into the area from out of state and already have sporting loyalties. I'd be very interested to know what percent of people living in the metro area are any more than second generation ATLiens. I counted lots of Cincinnati fans leaving Turner Field on Sunday getting into cars with Fulton, DeKalb, Gwinnett and Cobb county license plates.

3) The layout of the city - The most affluent parts of Atlanta are all north of the city: Marrietta, Roswell, Alpharetta, Johns Creek and so on and that's the target market for regular fans - the ones that can still afford it. I was in Marietta most of the weekend for a wedding and it was a solid 25-30 minute drive just to get back to downtown. Factor in finding parking and gameday traffic and you're looking at a 45 minute trip each way to see a game, which a lot of people either don't have time for or don't think of as being a daily/weekly occurrence.

Golf is big with the upper class more so, but mainly because Bobby Jones was from Atlanta and the Masters is a couple hours away.

NASCAR is big because of the rednecks.
 
Hottest ticket in town

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Hockey fans in this province have spoken loudly and clearly with their hearts. And now -- most importantly for Winnipeg’s new NHL franchise – they’ve stepped up with their wallets.

True North Sports and Entertainment’s ‘Drive to 13,000’ season-ticket campaign lasted less than 72 hours as the last tickets were claimed within 17 minutes of Saturday’s noon opening to the general public. The pre-sale set aside exclusively for Manitoba Moose season-ticket and mini-pack holders and corporate sponsors reached 7,158 by Friday afternoon with the remaining 5,842 commitments gobbled up quickly not long after the on-line window opened.

"We would like to take a special moment to thank all of our fans in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Canada for their support over the past week, in particular, the overwhelming response of our fans which has resulted in a successful ‘Drive to 13,000’ campaign," said Jim Ludlow, President & CEO, True North Sports & Entertainment in a statement. "The success of the campaign is a key ingredient to ensuring the sustainability and long-term viability of NHL hockey in this province. We look forward to seeing everyone this Fall at MTS Centre for opening night of regular season NHL hockey in Winnipeg."

"While I had no doubt the 'Drive to 13,000' would reach its destination, the remarkable speed at which it got there certifies the fans' hunger for NHL hockey and their commitment to True North's initiatives," wrote NHL commissioner Gary Bettman in an e-mail to The Free Press.