The T20 Auction Draft | The Final | Crappy vs Varun/Akshay

Who would win more matches with the conditions in mind?

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

Norris

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Welcome to the finally contested Final match of the T20 Auction Draft. A few considerations to keep in mind for the voters.
  • Players should be judged based on their T20 performances only.
  • Pitch Conditions: Good batting track with some assistance for slow/spin bowlers.
The Teams

Team @crappycraperson
  1. Chris Gayle
  2. Martin Guptil
  3. Virat Kohli
  4. AB de Villiers
  5. Shane Watson
  6. Glenn Maxwell
  7. Shakib Al Hasan
  8. Greame Swann
  9. Lasith Malinga
  10. Morne Morkel
  11. Mohammed Amir
Team @Varun/@Akshay
  1. Brendan McCullum
  2. Graeme Smith
  3. Kevin Pietersen
  4. Kumar Sangakkara
  5. Andrew Symonds
  6. David Miller
  7. Dwayne Bravo
  8. Daniel Vettori
  9. Harbhajan Singh
  10. Sunil Narine
  11. Samuel Badree
 
Team Crappy​


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Batting

Not much to add, simply no weak player in the front 6. All 6 players are capable of playing the ultimate destructive T20 innings and on their own win any T20 game.

- Gayle has 2 T20I hundereds and 17.. SEVENTEEN T20 domestic ones. No other T20 player comes close to that number.
- Guptill has been on a tear in T20s recently. He averages 49 with SR of 171+ in 2005/6 season.
- Virat's the best match winner in T20s, pretty much proved that in the recent WC.
- AB has been underrated by this narrative of being not that good in T20s. That's just folks going by his T20 stats. That's more of an anomaly, owing to the inconsistent scheduling of T20s. His record in IPL for example - 37+ Avg, 146 SR, 2 100s and 16 50s in 105 matches.
- Watson and Maxwell both can destroy the opposition in any number of balls. Watson is also capable of anchoring the innings if required.
- Shakib and Swann round off the line up.

Bowling

Pace options - Malinga, Morkel, Amir, Watson
Spin options - Swann, Shakib, Maxwell, Gayle

- In Malinga, the team has the best T20 bowler by far. You don't need any kind of stats to know that. He pretty much won SRL a T20 final and Mumbai Indians a CL T20.
- Watson, Morkel and Amir are a great supporting cast. Watson has shown himself to be a astute bowler while Amir is a bonafide matchwinner despite any conditions in play.
- Keeping the conditions in mind, Swann and Shakib are good spin options to have. T20 records of both, speak for themselves. Swann's figures in final of T20 2010 WC - 17/1 IN 4 overs.


Opposition will try to argue that the pitch conditions favor their spin attack and hence give them an edge. Two problems with that -

- Batting is king in T20s. Especially with pitch primarily being a batting pitch, my team simply has too many match winners in the batting line up.
- Spins options in my team are more than handy as well. Swann's proven across all formats, Shakib's an especially astute bowler in limited overs. Both Gayle/Maxwell as part timers are an option too.
 
Team Varun/Akshay
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Batting:
Opening our batting is one of the top 3 batsmen in T20 cricket in Brendan McCullum. Then we have the classy Graeme Smith who is the perfect stable partner to McCullum's big hitting. This superb combo will give us the great start we need.

Following them is the brilliant KP. A superb stroke maker who scores briskly while not giving his wicket away due to his ability to score quick without taking unnecessary risks. To complete the top order is the classy southpaw, Sangakkara. Another batsman who is pleasing on the eye and scores runs quickly and does not give his wicket away due to his style.

To finish off our main batting line up, we have 3 quintessential T20 players in Symonds, Miller and Bravo. They will wreck havoc at the end with their incredible hitting.

Our tail can also chip in if necessary as Vettori at 8 is a very handy bat and Harbhajan at 9 if be gets a few balls to tonk. This tail can definitely wag.

Bowling:

SPIN SPIN SPIN.

Our plan is simple. Take all the pace off the ball and make best use of the pitch by using 4 top spinners and pretty much the best medium pacer in such conditions in Bravo. The opponents have players like Gayle, Watson, ABD etc who all like to settle down playing pace first and we are NOT allowing them that luxury this game. To snap their wickets early, we have some of the best wicket takers in T20s in our attack.

Our opponents have a class batting line up which we intend to counter using top quality spinners on a track that has something for them. Narine, Badree, Harbhajan and Vettori are not just miserly on any track but are wicket takers, especially the first 2. They will ensure the opponent doesn't score a total our top drawer batting line up cannot better.

Why We'll Win:
- Our bowling attack and how well suited it is to the pitch and to counter the opposition batting. Genuine Wicket takers and bowlers with insanely low economy rates. Top quality slow bowlers up against batsmen who like pace on the ball on a pitch that aids spinners.
- Opponent's bowling line up. On this pitch, you need to take pace off the ball to make scoring difficult.
- Our batting line up.
- Because we Rock.
 
Last edited:
@Rado_N could you please set-up the following poll as always?

Who would win more matches with the conditions in mind?
  • Crappy
  • Varun/Akshay

Poll open 24 hours
Visible votes
Votes can change

Cheers!
 
:lol: Varun/Akshay have gone loco. I see what they are trying to do here but this is not a rank turner pitch

Good batting track with some assistance for slow/spin bowlers.

Going with 4 spinners and one pace option (that too Bravo!) is suicidal on a batsman friendly pitch. Hamstrung the team with no options if likes of Gayle start to murder spinners like they can.
 
crappycraperson said:
:lol: Varun/Akshay have gone loco. I see what they are trying to do here but this is not a rank turner pitch

Good batting track with some assistance for slow/spin bowlers.

Going with 4 spinners and one pace option (that too Bravo!) is suicidal on a batsman friendly pitch. Hamstrung the team with no options if likes of Gayle start to murder spinners like they can.
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It isn't suicidal at all. We are taking all the pace off the ball vs a batting line up filled with players who like the ball coming onto the bat. Bravo is pretty much the best medium pacer to implement this plan. Gayle finds it tougher comparatively vs CSK in the IPL because Dhoni always puts Ashwin on him at the start. Here, it will be Badree and Narine.
 
Varun said:
It isn't suicidal at all. We are taking all the pace off the ball vs a batting line up filled with players who like the ball coming onto the bat. Bravo is pretty much the best medium pacer to implement this plan. Gayle finds it tougher comparatively vs CSK in the IPL because Dhoni always puts Ashwin on him at the start. Here, it will be Badree and Narine.
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No it is a crazy plan with no basis in reality, only on paper would someone come up with it. On a subcontinental rank turner would you could go with an attack with only slow bowlers but even then it is too risky. On any other pitch it is a non starter. You lose the variety factor in your attack with the batting side becoming accustomed to the once pace bowling. Then, spinners are always easy to slog against especially in shorter boundaries in T20 games.
Bringing up Gayle is odd, he is known for putting spinners to task. It is a moot point anyway, none of the batsmen in my top 7 is weak against spin.
 
crappycraperson said:
No it is a crazy plan with no basis in reality, only on paper would someone come up with it. On a subcontinental rank turner would you could go with an attack with only slow bowlers but even then it is too risky. On any other pitch it is a non starter. You lose the variety factor in your attack with the batting side becoming accustomed to the once pace bowling. Then, spinners are always easy to slog against especially in shorter boundaries in T20 games.
Bringing up Gayle is odd, he is known for putting spinners to task. It is a moot point anyway, none of the batsmen in my top 7 is weak against spin.
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There is plenty of variety in Narine, Badree, Harbhajan and Vettori. None of them are like each other. If you're talking about the speed only, I don't see how it's any different to going with 4 pacers on a green pitch? It's a problem if all the spinners are similar in style, none of ours are, let alone more.

Spinners like Narine, Badree, Harbhajan and Vettori are anything but "easy" to slog against. Just check their econ out.

I didn't bring up Gayle btw, you mentioned him as someone who will murder them so I pointed out that if there's one thing Gayle doesn't like, it's facing spin at the start.

All of your top 6 bar Kohli would definitely rather face pacers with the ball coming onto the bat.
 
The classy Graeme Smith :confused:

Great batsmen but classy he was not. Very leg side heavy so I guess he could target the shorter boundaries well.
 
Varun said:
There is plenty of variety in Narine, Badree, Harbhajan and Vettori. None of them are like each other. If you're talking about the speed only, I don't see how it's any different to going with 4 pacers on a green pitch? It's a problem if all the spinners are similar in style, none of ours are, let alone more.

Spinners like Narine, Badree, Harbhajan and Vettori are anything but "easy" to slog against. Just check their econ out.

I didn't bring up Gayle btw, you mentioned him as someone who will murder them so I pointed out that if there's one thing Gayle doesn't like, it's facing spin at the start.

All of your top 6 bar Kohli would definitely rather face pacers with the ball coming onto the bat.
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I think you answered your point yourself. This is neither a green pitch, nor is it a spinner's heaven. In general, you can always get away with an all pace attack as opposed to all spinner's one That's pretty basic cricket stuff. Pacers in general can be attuned to different conditions and situations owing to the variations in line and length that are possible for a pace bowler, but are not for a spinner. For example, on a batsman friendly pitch, if there is some bounce a bowler can get away with bowling short but even with some spin, a spinner can't.

All of my top 6 have done well against spinner on different occasions. If Gayle's kryptonite was as simple as spinner in front 6, then he would not be T20's best or second best player. AB's proven against all kinds of bowling and Maxwell's fearless against any, seen him hit sixes with reverse sweeps against spinners.
 
4 of my batsmen will on show for RCB later, here is hoping none of the jokers cost me votes :lol:
 
Going to wait for the arguments but like Varun/Akshay's strategy.

One question -- what are we judging Narine on? His vintage chucking action or the current remodeled action where he's been a bit rubbish?

If it is the latter(which it shoudl be), it makes Varun/Akshay's strategy considerably weaker imo.

Otherwise it is a top strategy. Vettori, Narine, Badree and Harbhajan is a superb mix of clever spinners.
 
Also crappy, think it is reasonably well known that Gayle's really weak a against off spin.

REmember one of the IPL finals where Ashwin started and they showed his strike rate being <100 and a poor average.

Harbhajan would keep him quiet i think.
 
zing said:
One question -- what are we judging Narine on? His vintage chucking action or the current remodeled action where he's been a bit rubbish?
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Don't think he's been rubbish? He was ranked no. 1 in T20s before he was charged with a suspect action in Nov 2015, which was just cleared as legal a few days ago. Correct me if I've got something wrong.
 
Will revisit my vote. Akshay/Varun's bowling lineup is fecking terrific.
 
Akshay said:
Don't think he's been rubbish? He was ranked no. 1 in T20s before he was charged with a suspect action in Nov 2015, which was just cleared as legal a few days ago. Correct me if I've got something wrong.
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He remodeled his action for the last IPL I believe and was not so effective.

He was reported twice -- came back few days ago after the 2nd reporting, but already remodeled awhile ago.

Would be interested in stats from the last 1 year or so -- and opinions from folks who've watched more cricket than I have in the last 12 months.

If he's still as good, think I will vote for your team.
 
KM said:
Will revisit my vote. Akshay/Varun's bowling lineup is fecking terrific.
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It really is -- I can imagine that team restricting opposition teams to 80% of par score on any pitch easily.
 
zing said:
It really is -- I can imagine that team restricting opposition teams to 80% of par score on any pitch easily.
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Yup. Narine and Badree can really stifle any batsmen in the first six overs. Bhajji, Vettori and Bravo are terrific support cast.
 
They are all clever bowlers. Not sure about Badree but the other 3 spinners are for sure. It's the kind of team that'll drag you into a swamp and win because they're better at fighting in the swamp.

The batting line-up has clever players like KP, Sanga and Symonds who can be world class at 3 different geras.
 
zing said:
They are all clever bowlers. Not sure about Badree but the other 3 spinners are for sure. It's the kind of team that'll drag you into a swamp and win because they're better at fighting in the swamp.

The batting line-up has clever players like KP, Sanga and Symonds who can be world class at 3 different geras.
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Badree is amazing. Saw him play at BBL, no batsmen was able to trash him.
 
Straightforward win for crappy the way I see it.

Insane batting lineup on a batting track paired up with a bowling lineup that is more than good enough to see the game through.

4 spinners (One of whom is highly suspect) and a fast bowler who's only really good at bowling slower balls is a massive overkill on what's not even a turning pitch. The death overs is going to be pure slaughter.
 
zing said:
Also crappy, think it is reasonably well known that Gayle's really weak a against off spin.

REmember one of the IPL finals where Ashwin started and they showed his strike rate being <100 and a poor average.

Harbhajan would keep him quiet i think.
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Gayle has played against Bhajji in IPL so not sure why you would look at his record against Ashwin as evidence of Bhajji keeping him quiet. I try to find his record against Bhajji in IPL.
 
I don't understand the love for 4 spinners on a track that is still primarily batting friendly. Makes no sense to me that you will have all spin all the time against this kind of batting line up. Even if they do well initially, any 2 set batsmen out of these lot can score bundles later on. There is a reason why so many captains are hesitant to use spin in death overs.
 
Akash said:
Insane batting lineup on a batting track paired up with a bowling lineup that is more than good enough to see the game through.

4 spinners (One of whom is highly suspect) and a fast bowler who's only really good at bowling slower balls is a massive overkill on what's not even a turning pitch.
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Its not a rank turner but its not a flat track either. Both batsmen and spin/slow bowlers will fare well, only the pace bowlers will be at a disadvantage. Think our batting lineup is pretty good as well, but fair enough.
 
crappycraperson said:
Even if they do well initially, any 2 set batsmen out of these lot can score bundles later on. There is a reason why so many captains are hesitant to use spin in death overs.
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That is only an issue in the last 3 or so overs, for which we will have Bravo able to bowl two. His death bowling was very good in the World T20. On the other hand, spin from the start can win matches like Badree's spell in the final against England.
 
Akshay said:
That is only an issue in the last 3 or so overs, for which we will have Bravo able to bowl two. His death bowling was very good in the World T20. On the other hand, spin from the start can win matches like Badree's spell in the final against England.
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Bravo's Eco rate in both T20s and T20Is suggest he is far from an effective death bowler. If we are using singular innings as evidence of turning the match, then you are going to lose this by a lot.
 
crappycraperson said:
Bravo's Eco rate in both T20s and T20Is suggest he is far from an effective death bowler. If we are using singular innings as evidence of turning the match, then you are going to lose this by a lot.
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I'm not going by a single innings, he has a reputation of being a good death bowler and the West Indies regularly use him in that role. His variation, especially on a pitch like this, is very effective in those last overs when batsmen are trying to premeditate slogs. Tbh conceding 8 an over isn't even bad at the death. If that's the extent of your batsmen's acceleration and 'scoring bundles' I'll be very happy.
 
crappycraperson said:
Gayle has played against Bhajji in IPL so not sure why you would look at his record against Ashwin as evidence of Bhajji keeping him quiet. I try to find his record against Bhajji in IPL.
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I was referring to his record against right arm off spinners.. meant that's why Dhoni always started Ashwin against Gayle.
 
crappycraperson said:
Gayle has played against Bhajji in IPL so not sure why you would look at his record against Ashwin as evidence of Bhajji keeping him quiet. I try to find his record against Bhajji in IPL.
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I think it was this stat that was being talked about:
Harbhajan Singh has dismissed him four times in T20s conceding only 54 from 59 balls, Mohammad Hafeez has got him four times for 17 runs in 30 balls, while R Ashwin has dismissed him three times for 50 off 66 balls.
 
Akshay said:
I'm not going by a single innings, he has a reputation of being a good death bowler and the West Indies regularly use him in that role. His variation, especially on a pitch like this, is very effective in those last overs when batsmen are trying to premeditate slogs. Tbh conceding 8 an over isn't even bad at the death. If that's the extent of your batsmen's acceleration and 'scoring bundles' I'll be very happy.
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That shows amateur understanding of how these kind of stats works. Eco rate of 8+ means he is not an economical bowler by any sense.

You have reduced cricket to bizarrely simple logic of slightly slow pitch = any one bowling slow variations doing well. It is not even a ran turner where you could at least argue for something like that.
 
crappycraperson said:
That shows amateur understanding of how these kind of stats works. Eco rate of 8+ means he is not an economical bowler by any sense.

You have reduced cricket to bizarrely simple logic of slightly slow pitch = any one bowling slow variations doing well. It is not even a ran turner where you could at least argue for something like that.
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So you don't rate Bravo as a good bowler?
 
Akshay said:
So you don't rate Bravo as a good bowler?
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He is vastly overrated due to his variations. Commentators just parrot the line that he is a good bowler, yet most of the times he is going for runs. He ends up picking a few wickets due to batmen slogging against him at the death.

He would be fine as a 5/6th bowler but as a sole pace-man in a 5 man attack is an odd role for him.
 
anant said:
I think it was this stat that was being talked about:
Harbhajan Singh has dismissed him four times in T20s conceding only 54 from 59 balls, Mohammad Hafeez has got him four times for 17 runs in 30 balls, while R Ashwin has dismissed him three times for 50 off 66 balls.
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Source for these. Gayle has a great record against Mumbai Indians so surprised by that Bhajji stat.
 
I think Varun s bowling went full on slow. I don't think having no pace is ideal even on this pitch. Even Dhoni doesn't do that on pitches that turn square. As good as they are, players like Watson and Kohli are intelligent enough to keep the board ticking with the occasional boundaries and when they get their eye in DJ Bravo and vettori/narine isn't going to be enough to stop them. Bravo isn't exactly very hard to hit as southee showed last night. He can give you a good middle over spell though.
 
crappycraperson said:
Source for these. Gayle has a great record against Mumbai Indians so surprised by that Bhajji stat.
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/984653.html

Although would add this table as well because Gayle hasn't struggled with any particular bowler type in general

GAYLE AGAINST DIFFERENT BOWLER TYPES, IN T20S SINCE JAN 2011
Bowler Type Average Strike Rate
Right-Arm Pace 46.47 149.83
Left-Arm Pace 53.86 145.16
Right-Arm Spin 43.09 145.00
Left-Arm Spin 146.40 243.16
 
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