The Road Trip Draft R1: P-Nut0712 vs harms

Who will win this match based on players at their peaks?


  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Moby

Dick
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May 20, 2011
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Barcelona, Catalunya
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P-Nut0712 -----------------------------------------VS-----------------------------------harms
P-Nut0712 Tactics

Formation: 442
Style: Direct
Defensive line: Deep

Player Roles:

DDG: Complete keeper
Neville: Full Back
Godin: Stopper
Passarella: Sweeper
Evra: Full Back
Beckham: Right Mid *
Kante: Ball Winner
Socrates: Playmaker
Overmars: Left Mid *
Batistuta: Target Man
Ronaldo: Complete Forward - Free Role

* - Both will tuck in at times to allow the formation to become a 4312, such as;

Beckham - Kante - Overmars
Socrates
Batistuta - Ronaldo

Key Player Roles

Neville - Beckham partnership is obviously well known and needs no further explanation for what they would bring down that side.

Kante is a perfect foil for Socrates, he's going to be covering the ground and doing the majority of the running for him, allowing him the freedom to run the game.

Batistuta - Ronaldo is a partnership dreams are made of. There is no weakness and every single aspect of a defender would be tested.

Speaking of every aspect being tested we've got excellent crossers of the ball, an exquisite playmaker in Socrates, a warrior of a target man in Batistuta, and the Fenom in R9 who can dominate a defence on his own. This attack will be a nightmare to play against.

STOPPING THE OPPOSITION

Maradona is obviously harms biggest threat, hence the idea of defending in a 4312 formation and trying to congest the space in the middle of the park and forcing him out wide,where there is much less of a threat with Godin and Passarella more than capable of dealing with balls into the box.

harms Tactics

Tactics:


The team is built to bring out the best in, well, the best. Diego Maradona is in his element, being at the heart of a very energetic, aggressive and yet immensely talented team. The others will be carrying water for him so that he can walk on it.

My first priority after securing Maradona was to build an infallible defence. Figueroa and Maldini both have a genuine claim on the defensive GOAT status and Förster is one of the toughest man-markers in history of the game with the likes of Platini, Sanchez and Ceulemans in his resume, who spent the majority of his international career on the right of a back three. Legendary Yashin forms the last line of my defence with his intimidating presence — his name alone was often enough to force a mistake out of the opposing forwards. My tireless wingbacks will be actively participating in both parts of the game. I'll discuss their CV in detail later to highlight their match-winning potential.

My midfielders are well-known and they all play in the roles they historically excelled in. Edgar Davids is a box-to-box midfield dynamo who combined aggressive closing in and tackling with street footballer's tricks, while Bernd Schuster is responsible for creativity from the back. This is not a 20 y.o. enigma that shined at the 1980 Euros but a mature Schuster, a true midfield general that formed a telepathic understanding with Maradona at Barcelona and finished 3rd in 1985 Ballon d'Or vote. And then there's Maradona.

From the very beginning I planned to get Blokhin and Elkjær as Maradona's aids. It's hard to imagine a more tenacious front three and they'll be my first line of defence, I will comment on this point in the thread if needed. But first and foremost, they were genius footballers — while Elkjær's peak was not very long, he was undoubtedly the greatest striker in the world for a few years; Blokhin won Ballon d'Or ahead of Cruyff and Beckenbauer and did it in astonishing fashion. They consistently performed against the greatest defenders, not only of that era, but of all-time — Elkjær haunted Scirea both for Verona and for Denmark and Blokhin ran the show in the clashes between Dynamo and Beckenbauer's Bayern in the 70's. Again, if anyone's interested, I can comment on this in the thread. Their sheer pace and fantastic off the ball movement will be a devastating mix with Maradona's vision and playmaking — and both are very comfortable out wide, which allows Diego to make his trademark runs forward.

Thoughts on the game:

It looks like P-Nut took Ranieri’s quote about Kante doing the work of 2 players too literally, and built a midfield two with only one central midfielder. I’m a big fan of Beckham and even used him in a role where he provides support to midfield a few times, but his help won’t be enough to handle my midfield trio spearheaded by Diego Armando Maradona.

It's unlikely that P-Nut's team will sit back (his midfield is not suited for that), so it looks like he's going to play with a relatively high-line, which is not something that Godin is completely comfortable with.
 
It's unlikely that P-Nut's team will sit back (his midfield is not suited for that), so it looks like he's going to play with a relatively high-line, which is not something that Godin is completely comfortable with.

Bit surprised by this bit really. What makes you think that we wouldn't be able to sit in when required. Beckham and Overmars tucking in allows Socrates to move slightly higher in a defensive phase instead of having to work as a traditional cm.
 
2-man midfield against the likes of harms' trio is pretty much suicidal

But it won't be a two man midfield.

Defensively Beck's and Overmars will tuck in and congest that middle section. I've no worries about his wing backs causing major problems so the defence will be compact and narrow leaving lots of space on the flanks.
 
Defensively my team would look a bit more like this...

pnut-diamond.png


Now don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting Overmars and Beckham to dominate in those areas, more to share an amount of the workload and congest space. It allows Kante to buzz around Maradona and limit his effectiveness as much as possible.
 
@P-Nut0712 tactically it could work, but not sure about quality-wise. Looks like Kante would have to harass Maradona from the get-go to stand a chance. Beckham has great work-rate but so does Davids, and that may limit Beckham's passing game to feed your front-two. You have great attack upfront, but harms' defense is more than a match

Passarella is a tricky one. He could still be a sweeper in this game, but with this setup, he won't be able to make his famous attacking runs as often as he wants to. Well, even if setup is correct and he has the freedom to do so, he will still be subject to criticism as far as draft is concerned, which more often than not, is not fair
 
All in all, the difference between these 2 sides are, I am figuring out how P-Nuts' team would work, and for harms' team, I am thinking of what weakness it could have
 
@P-Nut0712 tactically it could work, but not sure about quality-wise. Looks like Kante would have to harass Maradona from the get-go to stand a chance. Beckham have great work-rate but so does Davids, and that may limits Beckham's passing game to feed your front-two. You have great attack upfront, but harms' defense is more than a match

Passarella is a tricky one. He could still be a sweeper in this game, but with this setup, he won't be able to make his famous attacking runs as often as he wants to. Well, even if setup is correct and he has the freedom to do so, he will still be subject to criticism as far as draft is concerned, which more often than not, is not fair

Yeah Passarella will definitely be playing within himself here, no doubt about it. He's there more for the fact he's comfortable on the ball, which will be needed when under high pressure due to sitting deep.

As for Kante, that's his job for the game basically. His best player needs someone to go up against him. Now hardly anyone is ever going to singlehandedly mark him out of the game, however Kante continually nipping at his heels and never giving him a moment's peace is about as good as you're going to get.

All in all, the difference between these 2 sides are, I am figuring out how P-Nuts' team would work, and for harms' team, I am thinking of what weakness he could have

I think that will always be the case for my sides. I don't like building conventional sides, and for that reason I expect to constantly have to hammer out exactly how I expect things to work.
 
Just not sure about the balance in P-Nut's team. It's an interesting tactic but I don't think it's enough to stop the opposition. I like the Ronaldo + Batistuta combo with Socrates + Beckham feeding them but that's a very good defensive trio they're up against.
 
Compilations that I've made for this side + and an old one with Elkær.






 
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Defensively my team would look a bit more like this...

pnut-diamond.png


Now don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting Overmars and Beckham to dominate in those areas, more to share an amount of the workload and congest space. It allows Kante to buzz around Maradona and limit his effectiveness as much as possible.
With Kante spending most of his time running after Maradona, you'll have Beckham, Overmars and Socrates against Davids and Schuster? Only Beckham has required pedigree and workrate to somehow influence the game in the middle but even he will have his hands full with a midfield dynamo Davids and a genius midfield general in Schuster. Not to mention that my wingbacks will have tons of space to run to and so will Elkjær and Blokhin (both were famous for peeling outwide from time to time). While I rate Evra, I don't think that Neville has it in him to stop my left wing. Neville's inclusion only make sense with Beckham in front of him, but with Beckham moving centrally full time (as Kante can't really leave Maradona), that partnership is broken.
 
With Kante spending most of his time running after Maradona, you'll have Beckham, Overmars and Socrates against Davids and Schuster? Only Beckham has required pedigree and workrate to somehow influence the game in the middle but even he will have his hands full with a midfield dynamo Davids and a genius midfield general in Schuster. Not to mention that my wingbacks will have tons of space to run to and so will Elkjær and Blokhin (both were famous for peeling outwide from time to time). While I rate Evra, I don't think that Neville has it in him to stop my left wing. Neville's inclusion only make sense with Beckham in front of him, but with Beckham moving centrally full time (as Kante can't really leave Maradona), that partnership is broken.

Like I said above, I fully expect you to run the game for the most part. Beckham, Overmars and Socrates aren't expected to cause your central midfield too many problems, rather just occupy space and make things congested.

I want to allow the freedom of the wings to your wing backs to push on, as that will leave your back 3 exposed at times for the counter attack, where they are up against an absolutely quality front 3.
 
I can see Passarella adding up to that midfield battle and evening the numbers a bit for P-nut.

With a higher line and Becks also adding up I can see that set up working.

However against that harms monster of a team it's hard imagining him losing the game.
 
I can certainly see the thinking behind playing 4-4-2 against (a) a stronger opponent and (b) where you have two phenomenal centre-forwards up front. May as well play more vertically through midfield to get the ball into Ronaldo and Batistuta early. Overmars with his pace and Beckham with his early delivery are superb in that respect. Passarella too would excel with those types of transitions.

But Harms has built a monster team. It'll take some stopping.
 
I can see Passarella adding up to that midfield battle and evening the numbers a bit for P-nut.
More than Figueroa, a better player who plays with more protection? It will be suicidal for Passarella to join midfield battle though against my front trio — Maradona aside, he doesn't have the pace (who does?) to catch up with Elkjær and especially Blokhin (one of the fastest players of all-time) on the counter.
 
I can certainly see the thinking behind playing 4-4-2 against (a) a stronger opponent and (b) where you have two phenomenal centre-forwards up front. May as well play more vertically through midfield to get the ball into Ronaldo and Batistuta early. Overmars with his pace and Beckham with his early delivery are superb in that respect. Passarella too would excel with those types of transitions.

But Harms has built a monster team. It'll take some stopping.
Yeah, I’m a big 4-4–2 fan as well and I’ve used both Beckham and Overmars in those roles, but you need someone like Robson instead of Socrates for it to work.

I’m surprised that P-Nut haven’t picked someone like that even as a back up.
 
The only problem I have in this game is Marc overmars having any kind of defensive impact on this game. Looks a little lost out there.

Ronaldo Batistuta is the dream partnership of a decade, and as p-nut says it offers up every aspect of a strike partnership imaginable.
 
More than Figueroa, a better player who plays with more protection? It will be suicidal for Passarella to join midfield battle though against my front trio — Maradona aside, he doesn't have the pace (who does?) to catch up with Elkjær and especially Blokhin (one of the fastest players of all-time) on the counter.
Nah my post was directed more to P-nut's general game plan rather than the encounter in mind.

With this set of players, Passarella has to step up to help the midfield and his approach would best be a higher line and shoring the pitch whilst allowing quick transitions and targeting the two strikers breaking loose.
 
Harms back 3 is final ready.
 
anatoliy_demyanenko.jpg


When The Ukrainsky Futbol weekly decided to choose best Ukranian players of all-time, Anatoliy Demyanenko was voted third — behind only Oleg Blokhin and Andriy Shevchenko, the best outfield players in Soviet and Post-Soviet space history respectively. Despite the usual bias towards attacking players in such ratings, Demyanenko, a tireless full/wingback, managed to overcome the likes of Igor Belanov, another Ballon d'Or winner, or Aleksandr Zavarov, who was bought by Juventus to succeed Michel Platini. He does have a surprising amount of personal honours for a defender — Soviet Footballer of the Year in 1985; Ukrainian footballer of the Year in 1982 and 1985; best player in 1980's UEFA European Under-21 Championship, which USSR won.

Demyanenko was the mainstay of Dynamo Kiev and USSR throughout the 80's, winning 5 Soviet league titles, captaining Dynamo to the Cup Winner's Cup win in 1986 and earning 80 caps for his country, including appearances in 3 different World Cups. It was a great time for Soviet football, and Demyanenko was at the heart of it. In European Cup Dynamo were eliminated in the quarters by the eventual winners in 1981 and 1982, won its second Cup Winner's Cup in 1986 and reached the European Cup semis in 1987 (again, losing to the eventual winner). USSR, which mostly consisted of Dynamo's players, entered 1986 World Cup as one of the favourites, securing the first place in the group ahead of Platini's France, and lost 1988 Euro final to van Basten's magical volley.

He was the epitome of Lobanovsky's player — physically impeccable, tactically astute and capable of patrolling the entire flank from defence to offence. His usual role was that of a rampaging fullback, but he was equally at ease as a left winger or even as a centerback — the versatility of Lobanovsky's football earned him a comparison to Rinus Michel's totaalvoetbal.

Valeriy Lobanovskiy said:
Demyanenko impressed everyone with his attitude in training. To maximise his impressive athleticism we needed to give him as much space as possible, so we’ve put him at left back, where he began to play with freedom that was unseen before in Soviet football. He was an instant upgrade on Matvienko, who played there before him — he matched him defensively but, at the same time, he significantly improved our attack. He covered a 60-70 meters long zone on the left and after the game he looked like this hellish work actually makes him happy

Vladimir Onishchenko said:
Demyanenko’s playing style captivates the viewer by its unconventional nature and originality of his decisions. Do you remember when he found just the right moment to join the attack in the game against Turkey and scored a great goal? And, of course, he is a fighter and an incredibly hard-working player. He had grown a lot since last year.

Goal against Turkey that Demyanenko scored on his international debut:


Sovietsky Sport said:
Every great footballer has multiple strengths, player’s class is a sum of his abilities. When you try to describe Demyanenko, you think about his stamina, his accurate defending, astute understanding of the game and indomitability of his attacking runs. But for me, the key Demyanenko’s feature is his dependability — for his club and for his country, in defence and in attack, on and off the field. He is not the most vocal, he’s not the squad’s joker, but ask any Dynamo player to name the most authoritative figure in the dressing room and everyone will name Demyanenko. When Baltacha suffered an injury and had to miss the rest of the season, Demyanenko took the captain’s armband — and played every minute of 34 league games, every cup and international matches as well

 
Feel free to add anything, @Demyanenko_square_jaw, I assume that you like the player :)
He features here from time to time but I don't think that he was ever discussed in depth.
 
Didn't like the Schuster pick. Other than that, looks ace.

Against a team with a GOAT false 9 like Cryuff/Messi, the 5-3-2 with a player like Schuster or Masopust breaks.

Say Figueroa/Baresi/Scirea tracks the false 9 into the open space in midfield, the two wide CBs in Maldini/Forster need to become narrow to cover the empty space left by the libero.

The false 9 can then play in one of the wide players to run behind the wingbacks and run at the goal.

The Messi/Dinho/Robben attack is perfect against such a setup.

While I can see Davids there to help as well, I can imagine one of the the midfielders caught out of position often losing the ball in attack. If it's Schuster, it's alright. But if it's Davids that is caught up front, that is a recipe for disaster on the counter.

Blokhin is an amazing pick alongside Maradona though.
 
Didn't like the Schuster pick. Other than that, looks ace.

Against a team with a GOAT false 9 like Cryuff/Messi, the 5-3-2 with a player like Schuster or Masopust breaks.

Say Figueroa/Baresi/Scirea tracks the false 9 into the open space in midfield, the two wide CBs in Maldini/Forster need to become narrow to cover the empty space left by the libero.

The false 9 can then play in one of the wide players to run behind the wingbacks and run at the goal.
That's a bit weird. If libero (and Figueroa is not an expansive one like Beckenbauer) goes after the false 9, wingbacks drop to the fullback position and it becomes a great and balanced back 4. I don't know why would libero follow Cruyff or Messi when I'm attacking?
 
People really need to start understanding the quality of top notch defenders and their reading of the game. It's like people just expect that wingers will run in behind and get on the end of every ball. There is so much that a defender can do to prevent this.
 
That's a bit weird. If libero (and Figueroa is not an expansive one like Beckenbauer) goes after the false 9, wingbacks drop to the fullback position and it becomes a great and balanced back 4. I don't know why would libero follow Cruyff or Messi when I'm attacking?

On the counter, there is always a possibility of wingbacks caught completely off guard. I don't expect everyone to reorganize Tetris style immediately.
 
Really like Pnut's side but this is a bad matchup against a balanced Diego side.
 
People really need to start understanding the quality of top notch defenders and their reading of the game. It's like people just expect that wingers will run in behind and get on the end of every ball. There is so much that a defender can do to prevent this.

To be fair, you need to understand that even the likes of Baresi, Thuram, Nesta etc conceded goals againt attacks which were a lot worse than the attacks on offer here. As you stated, big names in attack doesn't mean a great attack. You need to realize that same holds for defense. Tactics matter too. If you expect to win votes and games just by picking the 3 best CBs on the park, that ain't happening. But you probably know that by now.
 
I like what P-Nut has tried to do here but I think Nedved or similar to replace Overmars would have given it much more defensive solidity.
 
Yeah not going to lie I obviously never planned to have to have Overmars tucking in to help the midfield.

@harms set up was basically what I was gambling I wasn't going to come up against.

As for not taking a Robson-esque player for my reinforcements; I was planning to switch formations every round if I made it through, whilst still being experimental (or just mental).
 
Love that Ronaldo-Batigol-Socrates triumvirate:drool:

harms with excellent drafting as always:)
 
Feel free to add anything, @Demyanenko_square_jaw, I assume that you like the player :)
He features here from time to time but I don't think that he was ever discussed in depth.

Thanks harms, yeah he was one of my early favourites growing up even though i wasn't a Dynamo fan. Not sure i can add much after that excellent post though, you've highlighted him very well. I'd just emphasise the well-rounded, intelligent nature of his style, and also how physically strong and mentally tough he was. Not unlike Elkjaer in his dribbling and powerful running at times actually, he had that way of just bulling past a challenger or two and riding out rough tackles\fouls with a mix of skill, toughness and sheer determination then still finishing the play efficiently. He was not a player you could intimidate into being overly cautious by matching his athleticism or employing a cynical approach.
 
Most one sided game ever? Good luck going forward @harms
 
Hard luck mate.. The score doesn’t truly reflect how good your team is.. Think it’s a match up issue more than anything else

Yeah I know, thank god for @sincher otherwise it would be 21-0
 
Batistuta ronaldo is lovely. I think you’d have had a much closer game if harms didn’t have maradona