The Rise Of Hooliganism In Football - Please Give Your Thoughts

FLASHWOK

Flash...ahhhaaa..etc etc
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Kinky's thread about Football's hardest group of fans is very interesting and I didn't want to go off topic in there so I'll ask you guys in this one.

I'm very curious since as a yank I'm very far removed from the hoolie crews and all that which I'm sure there are in every football city across Europe to a certain extent...but when exactly did it all start in England?

Every tape I have with old footage of Division one football and England National matches show crowds that while very packed in, seemed to be very well behaved and reserved but still passionate...

so I ask those of you who grew up around the English game, when did things turn? When did and what did give rise to these bands of hooligans and the violence associated with those sections of the crowd?

It seems to me as best I can tell that up untill the 70s it seemed pretty reserved, or maybe it was there beneath the surface...I'd be very interested to hear what those of you around it have to say as I think it is a very interesting topic...I recall by the 80s it seemd to be at it's worst (don't know if that's accurate) but that was the perception across the pond, what with Heysel and the travelling England fans.

I noticed on all the old tapes I had the crowds went from calm in the 60s to surging forward towards the crash barriers by the 70s and 80s

I recall a highlight game tape that I had seen and during one sequence United was playing whoever and you could sense a move beginning that might lead to a goal, anyway the shot came in from Robbins or someone that hit the post, and I can recall looking into the crowd behind the goal and watching what looke like a landslide of people moving down the aisles literally as one towards the restraining wall(while the groups between the aisles were not moving) when the rebound was put in the net the whole terrace surged forward as far as it could towards the restraining wall at field level.

Needless to say I found this amazing and yet frightening to watch. While I admire the craziness and the passion, it seems so dangerous, considering it was all standing without much to hold back the crowds till you got to the field wall...it must have felt like being carried away or something.

What was that like? Although it's great in one sense, were any of you ever really frightened amongst some of the crowds pre the all-seater days? Either by the pandemonium or by opposing fans?

I'm really interested to know your thoughts.

flash
 
Racism...*cough* i mean hooliganism began in 1885

When Millwall FC were formed

They were formed on the Isle of Dogs y'know ;)
 
Interesting point about Millwall. Saw that 'fan' of theirs taunting Leeds fans with that t-shirt with the Turkish symbol on it. Much as i condone taunting Leeds fans (and Marching), that was just plain sick.
 
Those were the days all crushed in behind the goal you couldn't beat it FLASH. I think it was more of a case of everybody was that packed in you couldn't fall over, but you were fecked if you wanted a piss known people to piss in the pocket of a bloke in front :)

Dont know when it all started think Millwall had their ground closed in the 1930's for FV.

I think it was more of english culture in the 60's (mods & rockers) and gang fights when people started to latch it onto football.

The 70's was mostly gangs going on rampages around towns and trying to take each others ends.

The 80's was when the weapons came out big time blades cs gas golf balls with nails hammered through them etc.

The 90's was the decrease of FV Thatcher had declared war on the hooligans after Heysel and Luton. People said it was a dying breed but it just went underground and more organised away from grounds mobile phones are now the main weapon for organising it.

2000 onwards now you get 2 years inside and a 3 year ban for pulling your tongue out at a scouser.

DJS :p

If you want a good read about FV see if you can find a book called "Amongst the thugs" on Amazon or wherever a yank wrote it he was visiting the UK and got caught up in a riot between United and Cardiff and he wanted to know what it was all about so he stayed over here and went all over Europe with football firms and watching England away its a brilliant read.

Germany 1 England 5
 
thanks alot Stoney...

golf balls with nails :eek:

I was actually going to ask folks for recommendations regarding a good read on the topic...so thanks for that one.

Were there ever times when you personally felt afraid? Either of crushing/trampling in the crowd or dangers posed from some of the hoolies?
 
Its not just an English problem though hears a picture from the 2001 champions league Bayern v Valencia.

hooliganism2tc.jpg
 
I know it's all over the place stoney as...I just wondered since the English hoolies were always so overpublicised what your experiences were...I've seen some of the stuff in South America as well and apparently the Dutch vs. Germans is quite nasty as well...I understand the underlying social stuff that exists and causes it it just seems such a stupid waste of such great events and such a great game...what a bunch of morons.
 
FLASHWOK said:
Were there ever times when you personally felt afraid? Either of crushing/trampling in the crowd or dangers posed from some of the hoolies?
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Loads lost my bottle plenty of times in crushes some of them in the 80's were very hairy indeed came home from the United v Barca game at OT with no shoes on.

Got hit on the back of the head by a bottle in Coventry. Had a blade pulled on me at Everton(he was only about 12 as well the little shit) Best kicking i got was off about 10 West Ham at the Bury West Ham game wasn't going to the game just having a night out in Bury town centre but they spotted a united badge on my top then bang down i went.

Got nicked in Turkey had a machine gun pointing into my head by a Turkish copper got pararded all over BBC ITV and SKY news and then got deported back to England.

Nicked at the Rochdale v Bury game for being pissed £30 fine.

And beaten up at Euston being mistaken for a Liverpool fan would you believe this Gooner smacked me in the back of the head calling me a scouse bastard.
 
Sleep well, FLASHie...no need to worry about the Hoolie craze catching on over here.

The LA Galaxy Supporter's Section/Group/Whateverfeck, "The Riot Squad," has girls in it. Equally as pathetic, some of the same "L.A.G.R.S." spazzers play instruments throughout the entire fecking game. In closing, a big "feck You" if you've ever gone to a match and blown one of those long plastic idiot horns. Malcolm Glazer, Stevie Gerrard, and yourselves all deserve death threats.

"The World's Game" as done by a bunch of fecking Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime. And they wonder why the sport isn't taken seriously by our media.
 
Stoned.Rose said:
Loads lost my bottle plenty of times in crushes some of them in the 80's were very hairy indeed came home from the United v Barca game at OT with no shoes on.

Got hit on the back of the head by a bottle in Coventry. Had a blade pulled on me at Everton(he was only about 12 as well the little shit) Best kicking i got was off about 10 West Ham at the Bury West Ham game wasn't going to the game just having a night out in Bury town centre but they spotted a united badge on my top then bang down i went.

Got nicked in Turkey had a machine gun pointing into my head by a Turkish copper got pararded all over BBC ITV and SKY news and then got deported back to England.

Nicked at the Rochdale v Bury game for being pissed £30 fine.

And beaten up at Euston being mistaken for a Liverpool fan would you believe this Gooner smacked me in the back of the head calling me a scouse bastard.
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:eek:

that's some pretty scary stuff
 
I'm going to run and hide before I see too many HeadHunter posts. Not a good time in our history. I'll leave it at that.
 
Heard Cardiff have nasty supporters as well. My cousin went to uni in Cardiff and worked in a pub that wouldn't allow Cardiff City supporters inside the place. They got in once and ripped it apart.

A few months ago somebody on a Chelsea site posted a link to the Crystal Palace hoolie's official site....feckin hilarious it was(by hilarious I mean mostly lame), I'll try to find the link.
 
If I were a few years older like Stoney then I would undoubtedly have been caught up in the middle of it too. As it was the violence of the 80s stopped my old man from ever taking me to a United game, with our only trip to Old Trafford as a nipper being an England schoolboys international. I didn't get into going to games until I was at Uni in the late 80s early 90s when CCTV and intense policing had stopped most of the aggro, finally got to take my old man to a game in the mid 90s where Dion Dublin scored to help us beat Oldham in his first match back from injury.

From the late 80s onwards hooliganism had moved away from the grounds and you are more likely to get in grief in pubs around the city centres before and after matches, ironically you are probably more at risk if you aren't out for the footie as your guard is down. I wouldn't wear a football strip in any UK city centre pub that wasn't a local simply because you never know what idiot is likely to lamp you or worse.

The only time I got caught up in it was in Pompey in my first year at Uni when I was out for a drink with mates and attempted to break up a fight where one guy was pumelling an unconcious bloke who's mates were trying to drag him bleeding from the pub. They barged through the table spilling our drinks and I lifted the aggressor off his feet and told him that if he wanted a fight he should pick on the concious and feck off out of our way, I didn't see his mate who hit me but when I came to I was reliably informed by the landlord of the wrecked pub that I had picked up Docker Hughes the leader of the Portsmouth 657 crew. He even offered me a job as a bouncer as his had legged it when they saw it kicking off, I politely declined and put the ice pack back on my broken nose. I did meet Mr Hughes again at a Bad Manners gig in the Uni when I had a large mob of punks with me and repaid him, fortunately he was nicked shortly afterwards for shoplifting so the city centre pubs were a little less dangerous (barring run ins with the Navy of course).

To be completely honest, I think a lot of blokes go through this violent phase in their late teens early 20s and for most football violence was all about adrenaline and a bit of pushing and shoving and nothing more, unfortunately there's always the odd idiot who takes it a lot further. I got it out of my system in the mosh pits and full on brawls watching the late punk bands like GBH, The Upstarts, Sham etcf touring the fleapits. I never felt it had a place around football as the risk to innocent bystanders was far greater but unfortunately the idiots enjoyed and organised the aggro and made football grounds a no go for many for a decade or more.
 
Stoned.Rose said:
The 80's was when the weapons came out big time blades cs gas golf balls with nails hammered through them etc.
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Thatcher took a lot of credit for that, but the truth is very different.
Football violence fizzled away when ecstacy became big in the UK (it is very hard to punch people when you just feel like giving them a hug) The drug is not as popular now as the late 80s and early 90s, and drinking culture is back big time, and it is very easy to give someone a slap if you have got a belly full of beer.
 
My handfull of trips to matches have been largely uneventful, it's mainly away games where you are at risk unless you are one of the idiots looking for trouble after a game at OT. Segregation, policing and seating nowadays make the inside of most grounds very safe, it's only outside that you need to watch yourself.

Went to a midweek Villa away in the coca cola a few years back and we were only a few seats from the segregation line, the atmosphere was pretty hairy not least because it was Bozzie's first match back at Villa Park. Our kids got hammered but the United fans outsang the Villa mob throughout and there were a few who took umbrage with gestures and words being exchanged which led to the police threatening to expel the lad I was with. The trip back to the car in the dark was particularly edgy and if United had won I would have felt a damned sight less confident.

My only other football related run in was funny rather than scary, I was at Uni in France during my year out and was a regular in a pub in the centre of Grenoble where I was even known as "Manchester". In there one Saturday night with a mate and happened to be sporting a "Look on the bright side of life" T Shirt with pictures of the United squad celebrating the ECWC win the year before. At around midnight the music abruptly stopped and some twonk in a tracksuit, shirt and tie starts chanting "Montpellier, Montpellier" over the microphone, one of the teams we had put out en route to the final, I was about to respond with a rousing chorus of a United chant when the scouser I was with pointed out this guys mates, all similarly attired. The biggest fecker in the bunch strolled over , looked at my T shirt and picked me off my feet by the scruff of my neck (no mean feat as I was a few stone heavier then than I am now and am still no stick figure).

The scouser I'm with promptly legs it leaving me, feet dangling as this guy shakes me around ranting in French that it should never have been a goal, that Hughes shot was an easy stop and that he was forever haunted by the ball brushing past his fingertips. In my panicked state I'm thinking a.) how the feck do I get out of this b.) This feckers really big, I'm going to die and c.) the loon's even talking in the first person, he's one seriously emotional fan.

I should have been thinking d.) it's the goalie you twonk and the other prats in tracksuits are the rest of the Montpellier team who were in town to watch a rugby match earlier that day. When he finally put me down we had a cracking night and I was mullered when I crawled home at 4:00 the next morning facing a 3 mile walk as the trams had stopped ruinning.

The next morning the scouser took a fair amount of stick for his display of camaraderie as he explained that he was no match for anyone who could pick me up with one hand and had expected me to join him through the front window the moment he left. My mate from behind the bar then popped round to berate me for leaving early as I'd apparently missed a lock in and an orgy when I staggered off at 4:00 :(
 
Shane Bluck said:
Thatcher took a lot of credit for that, but the truth is very different.
Football violence fizzled away when ecstacy became big in the UK (it is very hard to punch people when you just feel like giving them a hug) The drug is not as popular now as the late 80s and early 90s, and drinking culture is back big time, and it is very easy to give someone a slap if you have got a belly full of beer.
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True Shane, the average 20 something single male at around that time suddenly made the choice to blow his wages on a nights clubbing and assorted chemical and herbal accompaniments rather than getting lashed and going to the football. Those that still did go were also caught up in the drug culture and were less likely to kick off than they may have been when pissed.
 
FLASHWOK said:
I know it's all over the place stoney as...I just wondered since the English hoolies were always so overpublicised what your experiences were...I've seen some of the stuff in South America as well and apparently the Dutch vs. Germans is quite nasty as well...I understand the underlying social stuff that exists and causes it it just seems such a stupid waste of such great events and such a great game...what a bunch of morons.
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Being a Yank, I figure you should stop making judgements on a vital part of footballing history.

Now, personally, I can't speak for the Mancs, but personally, for me, hooligans and firms had a role to play.

'twas a time in the 70s, 80s and early 90s(and even now) that when you went on away days, the local thugs from places like Milwall, Cardiff, Hull and Lids would be eyeing you on the station, looking for a fight. If I'm going to be honest, I'll tell you southern clubs were the worst, us included. I've rarely seen trouble up north.
The coppers viewed the average football fan as nothing more than a common criminal. That was a bad time. I've watched helplessly from behind barriers as 5 Chelsea fans, no more than teens were chased by near 50 Spuds who caught up with them then started kicking the living shit out of them right in front of the coppers who couldn't be arsed to get involved. This attitude would carry on right until Hilsborough when the cops saw what was it, 98 people die right under their noses and wouldn't do a damn thing about it.

So the fans (from almost every club) starting bunching up and going on away days. Tribalism at its very best, us against them. The strong saving the weak from getting a right kicking. Now thats originally what the headhunters and other firms were (weren't even called the headhunters then) in the beginning. They later evolved into something else, but thats another story. Without firms and the like, no-one would have gone on away days, period, simply because it would mean being surrounded by about 20 toughs then ending up in the infirmary for a month or two.

Obviously, there's no place for firms or hooligans in todays game, now that the coppers have actually started giving a shit, but its not my place to be critical of them. To be perfectly honest, I've lost count of the number of times I've been "saved" by a firm on away days.
If not for them I'd probably have bought it the day I and the missus stepped out of a side entrance of Upton park right into about 20 of the ICF (least I think thats what they were). Got hit on the head with 2 bottles, cut me up real good (26 stitches in all). Don't really remember what happened next, but the missus says about 10 lads in blue came charging at us one of them grabbed me and the missus while the others shielded us as the tossers kept throwing bottles. I reckon they were there for a ruck, but feck, after something like that, I can afford to be a little gracious.
 
Bury Red said:
My handfull of trips to matches have been largely uneventful, it's mainly away games where you are at risk unless you are one of the idiots looking for trouble after a game at OT. Segregation, policing and seating nowadays make the inside of most grounds very safe, it's only outside that you need to watch yourself.
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Mainly because your club is from the North West.

If you were a Milwall or West Spam fan, I can guarantee you your matches will be anything but uneventful. (off the pitch)
 
Stamford Bridge said:
If I'm going to be honest, I'll tell you southern clubs were the worst, us included. I've rarely seen trouble up north..
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Bollocks



Stamford Bridge said:
Obviously, there's no place for firms or hooligans in todays game, now that the coppers have actually started giving a shit, ..
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More bollocks
Stamford Bridge said:
If not for them I'd probably have bought it the day I and the missus stepped out of a side entrance of Upton park right into about 20 of the ICF (least I think thats what they were). Got hit on the head with 2 bottles, cut me up real good (26 stitches in all). Don't really remember what happened next, but the missus says about 10 lads in blue came charging at us one of them grabbed me and the missus while the others shielded us as the tossers kept throwing bottles. I reckon they were there for a ruck, but feck, after something like that, I can afford to be a little gracious.
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More bollocks again, the ICF would not batter a bloke walking with his girlfriend, you ran into a random bunch of wankers and NOT an organised firm, an organised firm would not lower theirselves to such a cowardly attack, and the ICF would not be dressed in colours.

Why do people think they need to comment on things they know absolutely feck all about?
 
Shane Bluck said:
Bollocks
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Like? I personally never have trouble in the North West. Never have had problems in Newcastle either. Unless you meant Lids. Or is Wales north to you? :rolleyes:



Shane Bluck said:
More bollocks again, the ICF would not batter a bloke walking with his girlfriend, you ran into a random bunch of wankers and NOT an organised firm, an organised firm would not lower theirselves to such a cowardly attack, and the ICF would not be dressed in colours.

Why do people think they need to comment on things they know absolutely feck all about?
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:lol:
Being a Manc I suppose you know alot about the ICF then? Been reading Cass' book, about the "glamorous" and "self-righteous" ICF? :smirk:
When did I say they were wearing colours? They weren't, which was why I wasn't sure if they were the ICF or not.

I've seen the ICF whack teenagers before, so I know they would have little qualms about kicking you and the missus.
 
Shane Bluck said:
Thatcher took a lot of credit for that, but the truth is very different.
Football violence fizzled away when ecstacy became big in the UK (it is very hard to punch people when you just feel like giving them a hug) The drug is not as popular now as the late 80s and early 90s, and drinking culture is back big time, and it is very easy to give someone a slap if you have got a belly full of beer.
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You been reading Scally then? :p
 
Stamford Bridge said:
Like? I personally never have trouble in the North West. Never have had problems in Newcastle either. Unless you meant Lids. Or is Wales north to you? :rolleyes:
.
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If you are just a scarfer then you wouldn't, as the lads up north have a bit more class than their southern counterparts.

Stamford Bridge said:
:lol:
Being a Manc I suppose you know alot about the ICF then? Been reading Cass' book, about the "glamorous" and "self-righteous" ICF? :smirk:
When did I say they were wearing colours? They weren't, which was why I wasn't sure if they were the ICF or not.

I've seen the ICF whack teenagers before, so I know they would have little qualms about kicking you and the missus.
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I don't need to read books, as I was present at many encounters, anyone who is whacking teenagers and hitting scarfers would be of a high embarrassment, and would be worthy of a kicking from their own lads if found doing such acts. I am not going to explain much more about things, as you obviously like to blindly waffle on about things you dont know, so I will leave it to experts like yourself to explain.
 
Stamford Bridge said:
I've rarely seen trouble up north.
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You should get out of london more often.

United/Leeds/C**y/Liverpool/Everton

Newcastle/Sunderland/Middlesboro

Sheffield derby

Blackburn/Burnley/Bolton/Wigan/Preston/Blackpool

Scouse derby

Virtually all the Yorkshire clubs go to war with each other and the Lancashire clubs as well , yes we do have tribleism up here as well. Its just not a London thing.

Anyone remember the Newcastle lot launching a bomb into West Ham fans at St James's park? That even shocked me that one.
 
I started going to United games in 77, from 79 to about 86 went everywhere home and away, and travelled with England to Euro and World Cup games. i'm not a thug, never have been but I know a few. One who did time for manslaughter at a game. Scarborough v Morecambe in an FA Trophy semi from memory. The thugs are/were thugs, they fought in nightclubs and bars, went to demos where there would be trouble etc. We'd often travel to games together and then split up. After the game on the train home we would have seen a bit of bother from a disatance, these lads would have smashed a few pubs and be covered in battle scars. The football was just the best vehicle for them to get into gang fights, it's what they lived for.
I've been close to a good kicking a few times but always managed to avoid it. Got thumped at Chelsea when United fans were banned from away games. Had a knife pulled on me on a train by a Spurs fan, he got battered when some more reds got on the train at Rugby. Got ther car doors kicked in at Everton. The worst I saw was Luton away, we were ambushed aftrer the game in what was obviously a well organised attack. There were bottles, bars, rocks flying at us for 15 minutes, I was scared shitless tbh. My only injury was a broken jaw which I got in the old Central Pier disc in Morecambe. The place was full of Mackems who had drawn at Anfield that afternoon and avoided relegation. I was having a few beers with some of them when the place kicked of, I got punched from behind by a local who thought I was a geordie.
 
ManUinOz said:
My only injury was a broken jaw which I got in the old Central Pier disc in Morecambe. .
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To be fair, you deserved that broken jaw, just for drinking in Morecambe eh? ;) glad someone did the decent thing and burnt the fecker down.
 
There’s not enough violence at football grounds nowadays. It’s all gone soft.

I blame footballer’s wages and Iran.
 
Stoned.Rose said:
You should get out of london more often.

United/Leeds/C**y/Liverpool/Everton

Newcastle/Sunderland/Middlesboro

Sheffield derby

Blackburn/Burnley/Bolton/Wigan/Preston/Blackpool

Scouse derby

Virtually all the Yorkshire clubs go to war with each other and the Lancashire clubs as well , yes we do have tribleism up here as well. Its just not a London thing.

Anyone remember the Newcastle lot launching a bomb into West Ham fans at St James's park? That even shocked me that one.
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I remember the NUFC WHU bomb. The first fooball murder I recall was aBlackpool fan stabbed at Bloomfield Rd v Bolton. Went to many PNE v Blackpool games and they always went off.
 
Flash, you should get hold of a copy of The Football Factory, by John King, if you want to read more about it.

I've never been involved in hooliganism, nor suffered too badly from it - a couple of punches aside. While some firms might be organised and play by 'the rules', whatever that means, there were, and to a lesser extent still are, just as many disorganised and randomly violent idiots out there who would just cruise the town centre looking for people they suspect to be from another team (i.e. easy targets) - they were mostly harmless, but sometimes not. Even so-called organised firms are fairly indiscriminate when it comes to laying in - they'll often go on something as basic as an accent to associate you with a rival team.

In my view, both sets are just as sad. It's a fecking pathetic way to get your kicks and prove you're a man.

The teams that spring to mind as having infamous firms are Cardiff, Millwall, Stoke, West Ham, Chelsea, United, and Leeds. But almost all the big teams had them twenty years ago.
 
This made me laugh...........

Historical examples of violent incidents in Britain to 1960

1314, 1315 Edward II bans football.

1349, 1388, 1410 Football was banned from the city of London due to complaints from merchants.

1364 Synod of Ely bans clergy from playing football due to the violent nature of the game.

1477 Edward IV issues edict against football.

1496 Henry VII issues edict against football.

1539 Annual match in Chester abolished due to violence.

1555 Football banned in Liverpool due to mayhem.

1576 Middlesex County Records reports that 100 men assembled unlawfully to play football. There was a "great affray."

1579 After the start of a match against the students of Cambridge, the townsmen of Chesterton proceeded to assault their opponents with sticks, driving them into the river.

1581 Evanses Feld at Southemyms. One yoeman killed by two others during a football match.

1608 Football banned in Manchester due to the mayhem caused by "a company of lewd and disordered persons..."

1638 Football crowd destroys drainage ditches on Isle of Ely.

1694 Fenland drainage destroyed during football match

1740 Football match in Kettering turns into a food riot and local mill is destroyed and looted.

Football matches held to tear down enclosure fences at Holland Fen and West Haddon.

1797 Kingston-upon-Thames. Traditional Shrove Tuesday match turned into a riot after three participants were arrested by magistrates.

1843 200 soldiers and 50 policemen were needed to patrol the ropes at a Preston North End v Sunderland match.

1846 A match was stopped in Derby, the riot act was read, and two troops of dragoons called in. The Mayor was injured by the crowd.

1881

At Wigan station two railway officials were knocked unconscious by a group travelling to a Newton Heath v Preston North End game.

1884 P.N.E fans attacked Bolton Wanderers players and spectators at the end of the game.

1885 Aston Villa v Preston. A mob of "roughs" attacked the visiting team with sticks stones and other missiles.

1886 A railway station battle occurred between Preston North End and Queens Park fans.

1888 Report of "a continuous hail of bottles" onto the pitch at an unspecified match.

1889 Small Heath v West Bromwich Albion. Small Heath fans molest strangers.

At Middlewich station a fight broke out between Nantwich and Crewe fans. Nantwich men stormed the platform occupied by Crewe. Many sustained injuries.

1893 During a match between Nottingham Forest and West Bromwich Albion spectators invaded the field and fought with Albionite players.

1896 While returning from a football match, three young men attacked and murdered a police sergeant and injured a constable.

1899 After a match at Shepshed between Albion and Loughborough Corinthians the Loughborough players were stoned and struck.

1905 Preston North End v Blackburn. Several fans tried for hooliganism including a "drunk and disorderly" 70 year old woman.

1906 Tottenham v Aston Villa cup tie had to be abandoned after spectators swarmed onto the pitch at the interval.

1909 6000 spectators involved in a riot at Hampden Park, Glasgow. The pitch was destroyed, 54 police constables were injured, and much damage done to the town.

1920 Birmingham City football fans use bottles as clubs and missiles.

1921 Bradford park closes the boy's section for three months after the referee was pelted with rubbish.

1924 After a match in Brighton the pitch was invaded, the referee chased by the crowd and a policeman knocked unconscious.

1930 Rangers ground closed after unruly conduct of spectators during match against Northampton town. Clapton Orient v Queens Park Rangers. Police called in to stop fighting between rival spectators behind the Rangers' goal.

1934 Leicester City fans vandalised a train returning from a match in Birmingham.

1935 Police lead a baton charge against stone-throwing fans during a match between Linfield and Belfast Celtic.

1936 During a match at Wolverhampton Wanderers spectators attacked visiting Chelsea players. Later the crowd protested outside officials' entrance over the sale of top players.

1949 Millwall v Exeter City. Referee and linesmen attacked with blows and projectiles from the crowd.

1951 At the Queens Park Rangers ground missiles were thrown at the Sheffield Wednesday goalkeeper.

1954 Several hundred spectators came onto the field during a match between Everton Reserves and Bolton Wanderers Reserves. Fireworks were thrown and a linesman was kicked.

1955-56 Liverpool and Everton fans involved in several train-wrecking exploits.

1946-1960 An average of 13 incidents of disorderly behaviour by spectators per season reported to the FA.

1961-1968 An average of 25 such incidents per season reported.


Historical examples of violent incidents in Europe

1908 Hungary. After a Manchester United v unnamed Hungarian team the Manchester players were attacked by Hungarian fans as they left the grounds.

1933 France. Gendarmes were needed to quell a disturbance in the crowd during a match between Nice and the Wolves. The Wolves were taken off the field by their manager.

1931 Germany. Hertha Berlin v Fuerth. A pitch invasion by the Hertha fans resulted in severe injury to a Fuerth player.

1946 Sweden. Hundreds of angry Malmo supporters pelted a bus carrying the rival Wolves players.
 
Going to Paris in 1975 with Leeds for the European Cup Final v Bayern Munich was an experience. Leeds sold their ticket allocation in an hour which led to 1000's of us being left ticketless so we had to take our chances of getting them over there.

Thousands of Leeds fans had been in the city for 2/3 days prior to the game and trouble had already started long before we arrived on the day of the game. We were greeted by the French riot police and whacked with their batons as we left the coaches. Welcome to France!

There were running battles all day long with supermarkets and bars ransacked as we searched for tickets....2 hours before KO me and a mate finally got 2. We walked to the turnstiles covered in Leeds colours only to climb the stairs and emerge in the German end.

There were pockets of Leeds fans all around and thankfully the Germans around us were fine....probably because they won. Bastards!

In the Leeds end it kicked off badly when we had a perfectly good goal disallowed...Leeds fans were trying to cross the moat that ran around the pitch to get on the pitch and the few that managed it were beaten by the riot police and led away. Then the sky started raining seats...100's of them. I saw photographers and stewards thrown down the steep stairs and anyone that dared to enter the Leeds sections were viciously attacked.

This went on for most of the second half until 100's of riot police stormed the Leeds fans and quelled the trouble. At the end of the game there were huge gaps in the Leeds end as the fans had been led away.

At the final whistle the riot police herded the Leeds fans towards coaches to take us to the ferries....getting there we found out that the ferry companies were refusing to take us home so we slept at the docks that night.

The next day the French government deported us and we arrived at Folkestone to be greeted by more police and dogs than I have ever seen before or since.

I wouldn't have missed the trip for anything and luckily most of my mates came home unscathed.

Away with Leeds in the 70's was at times dangerous...West Ham/Everton/Wolves/QPR/Chelsea were dodgy away games whereas Derby(where I remember Leeds fans smashing up a MOTD camera in the Popside)/Norwich/Forest were just like home games where it seemed we outnumbered the home fans.

Elland road always gave the opposition a warm welcome....I saw MU ambushed once. There was construction going on for the motorway that runs behind the ground and a small group of Leeds fans were taunting a larger gang of MU fans and they conned them into chasing them through an underpass only for them to be surrounded by a huge gang of Leeds fans armed with bricks etc from the construction site - It wasn't a pretty site.

Leeds in Div 1 seems to have stoked up the aggro a bit with the numbers of hooligans rising - The Millwall game saw around 200-300 Leeds hooligans travelling.
 
The thing that gets me about all this is that, as well as being a massive football fan, I'm also a big Rugby fan, and the mentality is completely different.
I go to the rugby most weeks, get pissed up with the lads take the piss out of the away fans, they do the same back, then you get talking and have a beer.
I know it's a point that gets thrown about everytime the subject of violence at footie grounds is brought up but it is a valid point.
The passion that Rugby fans have for their club is no less than footie fans have for their clubs, and I see it every week, so that argument is quite frankly bollocks.

As much coverage as violence at football gets, it is still a small minority and the police have said the same on many occassions, unfortunately it is this minority that will dominate the headlines every week and continue to stop the sport moving forward and giving itself the good image that it deserves
 
Looking Busy said:
The thing that gets me about all this is that, as well as being a massive football fan, I'm also a big Rugby fan, and the mentality is completely different.
I go to the rugby most weeks, get pissed up with the lads take the piss out of the away fans, they do the same back, then you get talking and have a beer.
I know it's a point that gets thrown about everytime the subject of violence at footie grounds is brought up but it is a valid point.
The passion that Rugby fans have for their club is no less than footie fans have for their clubs, and I see it every week, so that argument is quite frankly bollocks.

As much coverage as violence at football gets, it is still a small minority and the police have said the same on many occassions, unfortunately it is this minority that will dominate the headlines every week and continue to stop the sport moving forward and giving itself the good image that it deserves
Click to expand...
Most rugby fans are well behaved, as are football fans, but the rugby fans are not organised violence offenders, that is basically the only difference, because believe me when I say they enjoy a kick off.
I work at Twickenham as security for the rugby, and believe you me, we don't have a dozen snatch teams of six men for no reason.
 
Shane Bluck said:
Most rugby fans are well behaved, as are football fans, but the rugby fans are not organised violence offenders, that is basically the only difference, because believe me when I say they enjoy a kick off.
I work at Twickenham as security for the rugby, and believe you me, we don't have a dozen snatch teams of six men for no reason.
Click to expand...

As I said in my last paragraph it is a small minority.
 
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