The Reality Draft - QF1: Raees vs VivaJanuzaj

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Spoiler

Formation changed by Raees ( Raees 7-11 VivaJanuzaj )

vs

..............................................Team @Raees ............................................................................ Team @VivaJanuzaj ......................................


TEAM RAEES:


Formation – 4-2-3-1

Tactics

• I’m almost playing a back three of sorts because of the three centre-backs I have in my backline, but this is perfect as my opponent isn’t playing with out and out wingers so this is ideal as they attack best through the middle where it will be very congested. Zanetti can be trusted to perform attacking and defensive responsibilities with equal vigour so I don’t see any weaknesses in my defence… especially as I have the ‘pitbull’ Edgar Davids and one of the most complete midfielders of his time, Michael Ballack marshalling the area in front of the centre-backs or out wide if need be. Terry will play RCB, to cover Zanetti if he is caught out of position.

• If Scirea does go on one of his mazy runs, Zanetti and Davids will drop back… but that will be a limited occurrence as he is in this team to defend primarily.

• My opponent has two very attacking full-backs, but can they really afford to attack when I have the likes of legendary widemen in Stoichkov and Conti.. Stoichkov especially in conjunction with Villa is ready to pounce on any space left behind by Reuter..and Villa is deadly once he drifts in from the left. I think if Viva’s team go too gung-ho, I will be extremely deadly on the counter.. there are goals galore in my team, if they manage to keep my Conti-Villa-Stoichkov combination quiet.. Ballack and Socrates are bound to make those crucial third man runs which make the difference, his midfield simply offers none of the goal threat which mine can offer.

• Socrates is very like my Deco/Sneijder/Zidane… he is not a typical number 10 in the mould of a Rooney, but he’s one who wants to help control the game for his team and time his runs into the box. He has a lot of freedom in my team on the ball, he can drift to the left or go into the hole… Ballack has to be responsive to Socrates movements and be prepared to support the front three if Socrates goes wide. It is highly unlikely my team is going to make much errors in possession, they’re all physically robust, incredibly intelligent and very technically talented.. my midfield trio is as silky as they come.. Davids is insanely good in terms of dribbling under pressure/shielding, Ballack exactly the same… and seriously can you ever see anyone kicking Socrates out of the game? No.. Keane can be as aggressive as he likes, but he ain’t going to ruffle Socrates.. this guy scored against one of the toughest defences of all time and ran the show.

• Conti is a Di Maria style player in this set up albeit greater emphasis on attacking… I want him to put in a shift and join the midfield battle if need be and when on the ball stretch the game for us. He was incredibly intelligent on the ball, could carry the ball from deep positions and was an outstanding crosser… he wasn’t as hard working as Di Maria, but compared to your average winger he was excellent and incredibly tactically astute. If he cuts inside, Zanetti will bomb on the overlap… that combo is mouth-wateringly good.. you’re talking about a legendary right-sided duo who have impeccable credentials against a young talent in Alaba.. who is gifted, but lets not forget he played in the 5-0 aggregate loss to Real Madrid.. and my team is a lot more complete than that side.

Playing Style

The general style of play is mixed.. think Mourinho meets modern day Bayern, very tough defence, very complete and tactically astute midfield with interchangeable, industrious and effective forward line (all capable of beating a man one v one.. and all possess very good movement/passing ability).. capable of beauty but happy to tough it out and nick a goal on the counter…

Why I will win…

Midfield superiority:

This is a team which likes to mix it up, it can hurt you down the wings.. Stoichkov/Conti/Zanetti.. or in central areas through the vision of Ballack and Socrates, both possess incredible composure, vision and scorer of many important international goals… they have been effective and stood out in some of the most toughest conditions in international football – for me personally as good as Seedorf was, did he ever exceed the likes of Davids, Ballack and Socrates in terms of how central he was to his team’s success? Or was he a solid component in very strong teams…hence the collection of trophies he has had. Veron for me is another Berbatov, for him to be even in this draft when he has not even been able to stand out in the premiership says it all.. he is a major weak link and will be found wanting in a game of such tempo and industry.



See near the end of the vid, when Davids.. nicks the ball off Veron and sets up a counter. I think in terms of technical ability, he can’t be said to be on the same page as Socrates/Ballack at their peak, heck I think Davids is more gifted at carrying the ball albeit possesses less vision/passing technique.

Opponents lack of width v my backline with 3 top Cb’s including one GOAT

n One should be confident against any type of attack such is the defensive might of my backline, but even more so considering the nature of Viva’s attack. It lacks width and they will look to attacking me through central areas.. that is where my defence operates best. Two of them lack out and out pace… Francescoli likes to drop deeper and will find Davids/Ballack in his way/

My wingers/wide forwards v his full backs

I’d back my wide players against most full backs.. Stoichkov played wide when he scored 2 against United, when they had Dennis Irwin up against him.. and the team had Keane and Ince in midfield.. Reuter can’t afford to bomb on when Stoichkov is there to take advantage.

Conti v Alaba.. is not even a contest, Alaba is gifted.. but Conti was one of the all time best dribblers out in the wing and can cross like Beckham, if he cuts in he will leave Alaba for dead and even if he manages to keep Conti under wraps, there is only Javier Zanetti to contend with.

Zanetti

The closest modern day football has come to finding Fachetti.. beast of a footballer and as my backline is strong and able to cope with his front line… who is going to track this guys runs on the wing, is Francescoli going to do it? He has complete freedom to own that right flank.

David Villa…

This is Villa v Vidic/Rio and Van der Sar.. not a shabby defence by any means and in a team where he was having to play out of position on the left. They haven’t been the same team since he left… see how Diego Costa is tearing the premier league apart… see how he can’t even fit into the Spain team? David Villa was an incredibly unique striker... and he can score against anyone – lethal.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

TEAM VIVAJANUZAJ

Team Tactics:
A superb all round team with no actual weaknesses who can play both possession football as well as quick counter attacks, depends on how the game goes on, and can switch between the two in an instant. A team based on players who know to get forward and to create goals, but know how to stay discipline in defense. Most of the playmaking in the final third will be done by Franescoli and Rummenigge, the bursting runs of two out of Seedorf Keane and Veron, or the full backs from deep and my front trio, I have every way to attack imaginable which gives me great balance.
Defense - Vierchwood and Adams are very complementary of each other, Reuter on the right is one of the best RBs in history, he can both defend and attack spotlessly, while Alaba is the most mature young player in the world, a CL winner as a starter for Bayern and the captain of the Austrian team. Both my full backs are capable of attacking and adding another dimension of width to this match.
Midfield - Two working horses in Keane and Seedorf, who can both attack or give the Veron the freedom to rampage forward while covering for him, and do both at top class. Veron in behind them who will shift throughout the game between sitting deep as the deep lying playmaker and kick start counter attacks with a long pass to Kalle-Enzo-Van Nistelrooy or to participate in the build up with Keane and Seedorf. Veron there gives my two box to box CMs the freedom to create balance and choose when to push more forward(when Veron goes to his deep positions) or to be a little more disciplined when Veron and/or a full back pushes up.
Attack - My attack has countless goals in it, Rummenigge and Francescoli will create the chances, combining their wonderful technique and speed with their immense passing, with Van Nistelrooy's tremendous finishing abilities to create a lethal combination. My attacking trio has 764 career goals between them, so goals won't be short here.

Why I Will Win This Match:

Attack:

• Raees' defense is built in a manner that is supposed to allow Zanetti to roam freely with Belodedci tucking in as the LCB, but I don't think Zanetti would be able to afford roaming too much with Francescoli buzzing down that flank. If Zanetti does decide to roam, Veron can set up a quick counter attack and leave my front three against Scirea-Terry-Belodedci, Scirea will definitely do a man and a half's job here and prevent disaster from Enzo, but with RVN against Terry and Rummenigge against Belodedci, these are two huge mismatches for Raees for my attackers to exploit.
• When I attack not in a counter but in open play, I have two of Keane-Seedorf-Veron joining the attack and going deep while the other stays a little more responsible at the back, two of them, along with my attacking trio and a FB joining in will be devastating, 6 players who have great ball control and understanding of the match running their socks off opening the game and playing through balls to each other. Rummenigge and Francescoli are the key here really, because when they'll take a couple of steps backwards and create the move, it's enough if they beat a single defender to create a big gap at the opponent's defense to exploit with RVN's movement, and we all know how Kalle and Enzo can create these spaces.

Defend:

• Raees' attack is strong, but not strong enough. The thing about Raees' attack is that his strengths come from the wings. That means Alaba and Reuter will have to pick more wisely when to go forward, and they'll be instructed to always keep one of them at the back.
• In Reuter, I have the better defender than Alaba, and as good as Stoichkov was I trust Reuter(with help from Keane) to beat him on several occasions. Alaba on the other hand has another tough task in Conti, and although Alaba faced harder opponents(for exampleC.Ronaldo) and done brilliantly against them, I have Vierchwood to cover for him in any case of need, leaving the less dangerous Villa to Adams. Note, this doesn't mean Villa will always be 1v1 against Adams, it means that when Conti beats Alaba he'll have the brick wall which is Vierchwood against him.
• The midfield battle will be quite interesting, the idea is to let Keane as my RCM help Reuter against the combination of Socrates-Stoichkov - a job Keano can quite comfortably do, while Seedorf takes on the task of Ballack on the LCM. If Davids decide to bombard in, either Seedorf takes him and Ballack goes to Veron or the other way around. Yes, if Davids joins the attack and make a bursting run forward it will be harder(not hard, harder) but that will leave the defensive four really exposed for my counter attacking.

I don't see a clear cut route to goal from my opponent, Stoichkov is the biggest threat in his side and I covered it as best as possible with the combination of Reuter-Keano, while Alaba has the assistance of Vierchwood if needed. On the other side, unless Terry picks up the game of his career he'll be a big weakness and one for RvN to exploit, or even for Kalle when he cuts inside.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Game On!

All the best to both managers.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

First of all good luck @Raees , I'll vote for myself you should too.

I think Raees made the right decision swapping Terry and Scirea, but I'm not sure on how Belodedici is placed here, okay, we get it he's a LCB and not a LB but when he's facing a tough opponent such as Rummenigge you can't just let him take the wing for himself and hope he'll keep on cutting towards the middle constantly, and place no LB to face him whatsoever in the side. Even when Kalle does decide to cut inside I fancy him to have a great time against Belodedici here, Kalle is one of the best RiFs in history and Belodedici with all due respect isn't at the same level.

Plus, Raees' change caused Francescoli to face Terry every time Zanetti goes on his adventurous forward runs that my opponent decide to allow him. Terry was never quick, and with mazy runs from RVN in that central defense I fancy Francescoli to pick up an easy one two with Ruud one or two times which will be lethal.

Now, to answer a few comments on my opponent's tactics:

My wingers/wide forwards v his full backs

I’d back my wide players against most full backs.. Stoichkov played wide when he scored 2 against United, when they had Dennis Irwin up against him.. and the team had Keane and Ince in midfield.. Reuter can’t afford to bomb on when Stoichkov is there to take advantage.

Conti v Alaba.. is not even a contest, Alaba is gifted.. but Conti was one of the all time best dribblers out in the wing and can cross like Beckham, if he cuts in he will leave Alaba for dead and even if he manages to keep Conti under wraps, there is only Javier Zanetti to contend with.

Yes Hristo was brilliant, one of the best wingers of all time, meaning Reuter won't be able to move forward as much as he'd like, but Reuter was a very disciplined defender too and had brilliant defensive abilities. He's no Dani Alves you know. I'd say he's much better defensively than Irwin was.
You said so yourself, Socrates loves drifting to these wide left positions, to be honest, thats exactly what I want him to do because it will allow Keano to move wide with him creating a 2v2 situation between Keane and Reuter vs Socrates and Stoichkov. I'll take my chances in that 2v2.
Moreover, I think that because you're striker isn't one of the all time bests(not that he's bad at any way, Villa was a superb striker, he's not Romario though), I can afford to send Adams to join that battle if the ball is on you're attacking left and peacefully trust Vierchwood, who is one of the best man markers in history) to shut Villa out.

As for Conti vs Alaba, it's quite similar, first of all, Alaba is instructed to be much more disciplined that he is at Bayern(who dominate possession), and Alaba proven time and time again how disciplined he is when defending against strong wingers. You compared Conti to di Maria, well Alaba has done great against top wingers like him before, and again, if you start you're attack with Conti on the right, Vierchwood will be very aware of Conti cutting inside and beating Alaba than Vierchwood who is as quick as it comes will be there as the brick wall, if Conti beats Alaba to the wing and crosses, well I'm not concerned because Adams-Vierchwood there against Villa. My money is on my defenders.

 

[Raees]

Spoiler: Goalkeeper

San Iker – Iker Casillas

In 2008 he was the captain of the Spanish team that won their first European Championship in 44 years, the Spanish team that went on to win Spain's first World Cup (a tournament in which he won the Golden Glove and known as Yashin Award) and the 2012 European Championship. At Club level he has won the champions league 3 times in 2000, 2003 and 2014.

Having won the IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper Award for five consecutive years, he is considered to be one of the finest goalkeepers of all time.[ Casillas was nominated for the European Footballer of the Year award in 2008, ranking fourth overall.

He is no longer what he once was, but at his peak one of the mentally toughest (penalty stopper extraordinaire) and athletic (his reflexes are second to none) keepers there has ever been. For a goalkeeper out of all positions to command the respect he does from the Madrid faithful says it all.

 

[Raees]

Spoiler: Defenders

The Deer’ Miodrag Belodedici

One of the greatest and most elegant sweepers of the 1980s, he featured as the leading centre-back of both the Steau Bucharest and Red Star sides which lifted the European Cup (facing prison in between), both via penalty shoot outs in which the score-lines were 0-0 – testament to his defensive brilliance. He was very technically gifted and adroit at bringing the ball out of defence.. and was part of the Romania team which stunned the world, during their surprise run in 1994 – defeating that Argentina team which contained Batistuta (he was past his peak by then). Interesting to hear how Vuc rates him..

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/may/17/miodrag-belodedici-european-cup-football

Scirea
Scirea is one of only five players in European football history to have won all international trophies for football clubs recognized by UEFA andFIFA. Scirea is also one of only nine players in the history of the European football that won all three major UEFA football competitions. He played for the Italian national team for more than a decade during which he was irreplaceable[clarification needed] as the leading defender, keeping Franco Baresi out of the national team for four years until he retired in 1986. Scirea became a World Champion with the 1982 FIFA World Cup winning team, which defeated Brazil 3–2 in the quarter-final match and Germany 3–1 in the final.

(Credit to Annah for below...)
Franz Beckenbauer may have been the man to introduce the role of sweeper, or ‘libero’ in Italian but it was Scirea who transformed the position into an art form. Scirea’s prime role was essentially a free one whereby he would roam at the back to recoup any loose balls, nullify the opponent’s striker, double-mark whenever necessary and most interestingly - initiate attacks. Notorious for his ability to redress the attack and to deliver valuable assists, he was simply a rare type of defender that was as much a threat in attack as he was in closing down opponents. His capability of delivering the perfect pass and his enjoyment at running down the wings allowed him to evolve the role so that it acted as the first line of offence. He had plenty of competition, but his vision and ability to dictate the tempo made him a complete footballer.


Starting his career at Atalanta as a forward and then a winger, Gaetano had a tough two years and was not able to score the amount of goals he had hoped. He even featured for the Nerazzurri in the number 10 shirt before Coach Heriberto Herrera believed he was born to be a sweeper. It was alleged Juventus agreed and it was Čestmír Vycpálek, Juventus’ then Coach that requested Scirea be bought to form the last part of his astounding Bianconeri defence. With Sandro Salvadore, the legendary sweeper on his way to retirement, the Old Lady was in search of a replacement that would fill the void and Gaetano was about to move to a club with which he would remain for the rest of his career. When asked later on about his feelings of being asked to be Dino Zoff’s deputy Coach to Juventus in 1988, Scirea replied: “What a thrill: I was awake all night, as in 1974, when Atalanta told me that I would go to Juve.”


At the ripe old age of 21, Juventus’ Coach, Carlo Parola decided to try the youngster in the heart of defence alongside Francesco Morini. Scirea with his nimble and elegant style of play, almost tip-toed his way around the pitch alongside the tough and gritty no-nonsense defender Morini - the two complemented each other beautifully. With Giovanni Trapattoni on his way as the Old Lady’s new Coach, history was made and Scirea went on to win every possible trophy with that legendary squad. Such was his devotion to the team that it was alleged that after having injured himself, Scirea continued to play by using only his left foot to kick the ball according to Giuseppe Furino in an interview he conducted with Goal.com.


The Italian game eventually evolved to create la Zona Mista whereby the defenders would mix zonal marking with man-marking. The Azzurri team won the 1982 World Cup by deploying this very method of play. In this tactic, four defenders were deployed, two centre-backs, a sweeper behind them and a full-back usually positioned on the left flank. Despite the heroics of Paolo Rossi, it was Scirea who was regarded as the tournament’s most dependable player.


As age took a toll on his attacking prowess, Scirea retained a more defensive role in central defence which he excelled at just the same. Yet despite his extraordinary skill as a footballer, Scirea was perhaps even more celebrated for his human qualities and gentleman-like persona. His tragic and untimely death restricted the world from a true legend and a gentle soul that no longer exists in the modern game. He has the honour of being remembered as a player that never received a red card and a defender that scored an unbelievably high number of goals for his beloved Juventus. The Curva will always carry the name of the legendary Juve Captain and the country will forever continue to mourn his loss.


“A gentleman, a great opponent. His death gave me a lot, a lot of pain.” - Diego Maradona.


John Terry

A leader who marshals the back four, brilliant in possession with either foot, fantastic in the air both defensively and in an attacking sense, capable of scoring technically brilliant goals and brilliant timing of the challenge on the floor.. in addition to having the right amount of aggression, there is no doubt he could have played for any side in the world at centre back and this is reflected by the fact he named was named UEFA Club Defender of the Year in 2005, 2008 and 2009, PFA Players' Player of the Year in 2005, and was included in the FIFProWorld XI for five consecutive seasons, from 2005 to 2009. He was also named in the all-star squad for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, the only English player to make the team.



Javier Zanetti ‘The tractor’ ‘Il Capitano’

Inter Milan’s answer to ‘Maldini’? I’d argue that he is more complete in that he was a far superior attacking threat.. more akin to a Fachetti. Dribbling ability, Positional sense, Tough as nails, Marathon endurance, Scorer of spectacular goals, just an all-round footballing god. He could play either full-back position and defensive/central midfield with the same level of brilliance such was the versatility of his attributes. Everything to be won at Club level he has done but imagine if he’d been part of a Real or an AC Milan… his position as an All-time great would be further secure..

'Antohan' The very model of uncomplaining duty, a beacon of honest, virtuous endeavour. To see him playing for Inter or Argentina, putting out fires here, there and everywhere, you half expect him to nip into a phone booth and emerge with cape and the power of flight – not that he needed it.

Notwithstanding his increasingly frequent auxiliary midfieldery, Zanetti is, to the core, a defender’s defender: there’s no jockey, block, block-off, block-tackle, slide tackle or header, no marking job or last-ditch clearance that is not carried out with diligence, courage, and a preternatural relish – a leader, yes, but by deed, not word; he is incredibly taciturn on the field, his expression scarcely anything other than one of engrossed concentration, a concentration as relentless as his industriousness. He just keeps going and going and going – his nickname in Italy is Il trattore (‘The Tractor’), thighs curved like some improbable stringed instrument of the Carpathians, driving and pumping until his opponent yields, whereupon, having dispossessed him, efficiently and without fuss, the ball is laid off to a creative player (or else, he might surge forward himself. Why not…?).

All-time highest number of caps for Argentina on 145, despite his last World Cup game being played in 2002 thanks to ludicrous management.

 

[Raees]

Spoiler: Midfielders

Michael Ballack

Unfairly remembered as a nearly man, I would refer anyone to the world cup 2006 semi final against Italy where he outshone Pirlo and was excellent in both defence and magisterial in attack – Zidanesque. He had a calmness on the ball that was unmatched and unbelievably technically gifted - flair, tricks and so two footed it was ridiculous. Beastly in the air too and just an all-round rolls Royce of a midfielder. He was incredibly unfortunate to be born in the worst German era for talent and yet through his brilliance and will to win, took them to a world cup final and semi -finals galore. In terms of talent, without doubt one of the top few in this draft.

At club level, multiple Bundesliga’s and took an unfancied Bayer Leverkusen team to the brink of a CL.. let us not forget he was the main man in a midfield which held its own against a peak United, destroying our Champions League hopes (Keane played!) and in a side which nearly beat Real ‘Galactico’ Madrid if it wasn’t for the Zidane volley.

There will always remain criticism that he didn’t quite do it for Bayern, but look at this Bayern squad and tell me if in an attacking sense it is as talented as the squad they have now… where is the Ribery and Robben in this team? There were some incredibly strong teams in Europe in that area.. his international record and his performances for Bayer Leverkusen proved he wasn’t one to shirk the big occasion. How many players in this draft can genuinely call themselves players who’ve succeeded in ‘one-man’ teams and made them as successful as a Ballack… a true midfield general of the highest order in that period of 2001 to 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004–05_FC_Bayern_Munich_season

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=306429.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOZ00q1pJEs



Edgar ‘The Pitbull’ Davids

A combative, energetic, and creative midfielder,[5] Davids was nicknamed "the Pitbull" by Louis van Gaal because of his marking ability and his aggressive tackling.[6][7] Throughout his career, Davids was renowned for his outstanding technique and ball skills, as well as his passing ability and vision.[8] He was also known for his pace, strength, power, stamina, tactical intelligence, versatility and tenacity, as well as his ability to read the game, which, along with his technical ability, allowed him to be deployed in several midfield positions, including as a left midfielder, or as a central, box-to-box, or defensive midielder.[9] He was one of the players chosen by Pelé to feature in the FIFA 100, his list of the world's greatest living footballers. His cousin Lorenzo is also a footballer

He helped the Amsterdam club to three domestic Eredivisie titles, as well as continental success with the1992 UEFA Cup and the 1995 UEFA Champions League. In the 1996 UEFA Champions League Final, he missed Ajax's first penalty in the shoot-out, which they ultimately lost toJuventus. While at Ajax, he was nicknamed "The Pitbull" by Ajax manager Louis van Gaal due to his fierce style of play and bite in the midfield.

Six successful years in Turin followed, with Davids helping the side to the Serie A title in 1998, 2002 and 2003, as well as two Italian Supercups, and the Intertoto Cup. Juventus manager Marcello Lippi once described him as "my one-man engine room."

He was often inspirational in Europe, playing 15 times as the club made it all the way to the 2002–03 UEFA Champions Leaguefinal before losing to Milan on penalties. He had also previously managed to reach the Champions League Final with Juventus in1998, followed by a semi-final finish during the 1998-99 season, as well as reaching the 2002 Coppa Italia Final.

Barcelona

Davids joined Barcelona on loan in January 2004 from Juventus. Joining midway through a season where the club was struggling in midtable and recently appointed manager Frank Rijkaard was under considerable pressure, Davids led Barça's successful resurgence of form which saw them finishing second to Valencia in the league.]




Socrates 'Brazil's *********** King'

One of the most technically gifted players there ever was.. you'd have to be in order to captain the 1982 Brazil side.. and one of the most intelligent. Long, rangy but with the quick feet of a winger and the vision of a footballing *********** – he was truly one of the most charismatic and charming players there ever was. Impossible to take the ball off him...no defensive mid in this draft could nick the ball off him in my opinion - solid amount of pace with a strong work ethic…and the type of player who could infiltrate fort knox due to his incredible footballing IQ… he is Brazil’s equivalent to Zidane.

Socrates is best known for captaining Brazil’s remarkable World Cup 1982 team in Spain. Contemporary football fans who have the privilege of viewing the Brazil World Cup team of 1982 will find it challenging to absorb the rhythm, tempo and formation of the Brazilian team because it resembles virtually no other team in the history of football. Coach Tele Santana played a 4-2-3-1 formation with Junior, Luizinho, Oscar and Leandro in defense, Falcao and Cerezzo deep in midfield, Eder, Zico and Socrates in attacking midfield and Serginho as the lone center forward and pure striker. Brazil fans who watched the Brazil v. Italy match of 1982 will painfully recall how Brazil did almost no defending in the match against Italy, choosing instead to try and win through ball possession, one touch passing, and streaming attacks on goal that defied any predictable formation or pattern. On one hand, Brazil 1982 represented a team marked by cohesion, collaboration and an attacking spirit taken to an extreme. On the other, the lynchpin of the team, the cog around which play revolved, was none other than Socrates playing in one of his finest hours.

Fans of Socrates will remember his blind, back-heel pass; the way he sauntered all over the field as if it belonged to him; how he instinctively knew which spaces teammates like Zico, Branco, Junior, Falcao, Cerezzo, Muller and Careca would fill with their runs forward; his ability to orchestrate attacks from both the right foot and the left; how he could feel and alter the pulse of a game like the doctor that he was; his calmness when things became rough; his spectacular goal against the USSR in World Cup 1982; his equalizer in 1982 against Italy from an absurdly narrow angle, setup by a Zico pass; his inspirational play against France in World Cup 1986, when Brazil chose not to play in midfield, but to attack ruthlessly on all fronts in the heat of the Guadalaraja sun against the likes of Michel Platini, Amoros and Tigana.

 

[Raees]

Spoiler: Forwards

Bruno Conti

The undisputed true star of world cup 1982 and the key player in leading them to victory from an attacking perspective. Rossi got the goals but this guy was the driving force in terms of creativity and taking the game to top class opponents.. Italy had a world class defence, but a pretty industrious midfield and an out of form striker... he was the only player of undoubted flair in that side. He was the Di Maria of the Italian side, in that he was the engine for that Italian side going forwards. He would turn defence into attack in an instant due to his ability to beat a man and go on a slaloming run. A fantastic creative mind too in that he was a quality passer and a world class crosser. Not your normal egotistical flashy wideman...

Going into the game, Italy were rank outsiders and knew they needed a win to go through to the semi-finals. In their way was the team of the tournament and one was the best teams ever Brazil. Italy twice led thanks to Rossi, only to be pegged back, on the second occasion by Conti’s teammate at Roma Falcao. It was to be Rossi’s day and he finished his hat-trick with 18 minutes to go. Italy were through to their 5th World Cup Semi –Final and Conti’s pace and skill on the flank had played a key role.

Italy brushed aside Poland in the Semi-Final thanks to 2 more goals from Rossi and set up a final against Germany. This seemed like an eternity away from their horror show at the group stage.

The first half at the Santiago Bernabeu ended goalless despite Conti winning a penalty, however it was missed by Antonio Cabrini. Italy started the second half superbly and thanks to that the man Rossi went 1-0 up. Conti was at the heart of everything and played a vital role when Marco Tardelli made it two.. look at his Cruyff turn - leaves defender for dead. For Italy’s third goal Conti passed defender after defender before laying the ball off to substitute Alessandro Altobelli who did the rest. Germany scored a late consolation but Italy were champions of the world for the 3rd time.

The following year Conti played his part in another amazing story. He was Roma’s key man in them winning their second ever scudetto. In a team with the likes of Falcao, Agostino Di Bartolomei and Ruberto Puzzo, Conti shinned, creating numerous goals and was the link between attack and defence.

In their next season, Roma had even more success. They finished runners up in the league and won the Coppa Italia again, but it was to be their amazing European run that would steal all the headlines. Roma found them self with the chance of a lifetime, a European cup final at their home the Stadio Olimpico. Liverpool who had been the team in Europe over the last 10 years were in their way. The Match finished 1-1 with Pruzzo scoring the Roma goal and so the game went to the dreaded penalty shoot-out. Thanks the heroics of Bruce Grobbelaar and a miss from Conti himself, Roma’s chance had come and gone. It is still a night that haunts Roma fans.




Stoichkov

The ‘Pistol’. Stoichkov has a trophy cabinet a player of his undoubted talent deserves. The forward was feared for his speed and potent shot, but is widely remembered for his fiery temperament. When he channeled his aggression during a match, he was a formidable player, often carrying his team single-handedly. Renowned for his never-say-die attitude, Stoichkov fought for the ball with the fierce intensity whether it was the first minute or the last. Nevertheless, that aggression was also his own worst enemy, and he became a controversial figure through occasional violent outbursts and irate protestations.

He is regarded as one of the best footballers of his generation[1] and the greatest Bulgarian footballer of all time.[2][3] While he was still active, he was nicknamed The Dagger (Камата) and The Modern Left (Модерния ляв).[citation needed] In 1990 he joined FC Barcelona where he earned the Spanish nickname 'El Pistolero' which translates to 'the gunslinger'. At Barcelona he was part of Johan Cruyff's "dream team" that won four consecutive La Liga titles and one UEFA Champions League.

Stoichkov was a member of the Bulgaria national team that finished fourth at the 1994 World Cup, of which he was the top scorer with 6 goals. Apart from his footballing talent, he was notable for his on-pitch temper. His awards include the European Golden Shoe, the Ballon d'Or, theWorld Cup Golden Shoe and the World Cup Bronze Ball. In 1992 and 1994 he was runner-up in the FIFA World Player of the Year award, and in 2004 he was named in the FIFA 100 list of the "125 Greatest Living Footballers".[4]

Stoichkov played as a left footed forward who was known for his explosive acceleration and speed dribbling, and for taking unpredictable shots on goal. He was also notable at taking free kicks and penalties as well as being a very good crosser



David Villa

The most underrated forward of the 21st century. European cup winner for Barcelona and nearly another for Atletico Madrid, top scorer in the league for Valencia on countless occasions, world cup silver boot winner, golden boot in European championships of 2008, … world cup winner (scoring goals in 4 different games). Dribbling ability, legendary finishing ability, fantastic movement off the ball, intelligent passer and strong as an ox on the ball. Complete forward, who history will recognise as one of the best strikers who ever played the game.

He scored three goals at the 2006 World Cup, was the top scorer at Euro 2008 and earned the Silver Boot at the 2010 World Cup. He is the first Spanish player to ever reach 50 international goals and retired from internationals after the 2014 World Cup with 59 in 97 matches, making him Spain's all-time top goalscoreras well as the country's top scorer in the World Cup with 9 goals.[4] The goals-to-games ratio he has achieved for the national team has not been matched by any player since Alfredo Di Stéfano.




http://whitehouseaddress.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/is-david-villa-undervalued.html

 

[Gio]

Veron for me is another Berbatov, for him to be even in this draft when he has not even been able to stand out in the premiership says it all.. he is a major weak link and will be found wanting in a game of such tempo and industry.

See near the end of the vid, when Davids.. nicks the ball off Veron and sets up a counter. I think in terms of technical ability, he can’t be said to be on the same page as Socrates/Ballack at their peak

Have to disagree here. What Veron did in Serie A jizzed on what most midfielders were doing in the late 1990s. Technically he's better than Ballack who was stronger in other areas. That's a good game to link though. Veron and Davids were both at their peaks then and had a great battle that day when there was no clear winner. It's odd how Veron's reputation has suffered through time, when he was pretty much on par with any midfield playmaker of his era.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Have to disagree here. What Veron did in Serie A jizzed on what most midfielders were doing in the late 1990s. Technically he's better than Ballack who was stronger in other areas. That's a good game to link though. Veron and Davids were both at their peaks then and had a great battle that day when there was no clear winner. It's odd how Veron's reputation has suffered through time, when he was pretty much on par with any midfield playmaker of his era.

It's completely ridicules, people in the caf forget how great he was at the super strong Seria A back than because he failed at United. Even this example, just because he made a single mistake against Davids in a single game doesn't make Davids Veron's kryptonite

 

[crappycraperson]

Have to disagree here. What Veron did in Serie A jizzed on what most midfielders were doing in the late 1990s. Technically he's better than Ballack who was stronger in other areas. That's a good game to link though. Veron and Davids were both at their peaks then and had a great battle that day when there was no clear winner. It's odd how Veron's reputation has suffered through time, when he was pretty much on par with any midfield playmaker of his era.

Yes. I mentioned some time back that Veron's reputation was next to Zidane when United spent 26m or so on him and got laughed at.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Can't judge Veron on his United stint - that's obvious. He wasn't a good fit for a team that far too frequently* set up in a manner which simply didn't suit his style. When we did set-up in a way which allowed him to play his natural game, he was generally brilliant - which says all you need to know, really. Poor career move on Veron's part - it happens, but nobody should be fooled into thinking he wasn't a top player, because he certainly was.

The Berbatov comparison isn't 100% apt in my opinion - as Veron in his pomp was on a level above anything Berbatov has ever shown (and I like Berbatov, just to point that out - nothing against him at all).

* For Veron, I mean - not in general.

 

[antohan]

I have to say, this isn't as clear-cut as I expected. VivaJ had an issue with his outball from defence, which is made far worse once -by his own admission- he asks the fullbacks to play a disciplined defensive job. That puts the onus on Verón as playmaker to have to drop really deep to pick up the ball. It ultimately makes Verón a mission critical player in his setup and I can see someone like Ballack making it very difficult for him.

The way I'm seeing it, the game naturally drifts towards Raees having a WM of sorts in place:

Stoichkov------Villa---------Conti
-------Socrates---Ballack
----Davids------------Zanetti
------Belod--Scirea---Terry

The two outside defenders don't initially fill me with confidence in their pairings, but Davids and Zanetti can limit Kalle and Enzo receiving/dropping deep, and can also support out wide when they drift there, leaving Belodedici and Terry to purely play as CBs, with Scirea as cover.

It all boils down to how effectively Davids and Zanetti can protect the poorer elements in that defence, and how well Verón manages to link things up under pressure amid a defence that seems to be in panic mode (sending Adams over to support Keane and Reuter against Stoichkov and Socrates, blimey).

 

[Raees]

First of all good luck @Raees , I'll vote for myself you should too.

I think Raees made the right decision swapping Terry and Scirea, but I'm not sure on how Belodedici is placed here, okay, we get it he's a LCB and not a LB but when he's facing a tough opponent such as Rummenigge you can't just let him take the wing for himself and hope he'll keep on cutting towards the middle constantly, and place no LB to face him whatsoever in the side. Even when Kalle does decide to cut inside I fancy him to have a great time against Belodedici here, Kalle is one of the best RiFs in history and Belodedici with all due respect isn't at the same level.

Plus, Raees' change caused Francescoli to face Terry every time Zanetti goes on his adventurous forward runs that my opponent decide to allow him. Terry was never quick, and with mazy runs from RVN in that central defense I fancy Francescoli to pick up an easy one two with Ruud one or two times which will be lethal.

Now, to answer a few comments on my opponent's tactics:



Yes Hristo was brilliant, one of the best wingers of all time, meaning Reuter won't be able to move forward as much as he'd like, but Reuter was a very disciplined defender too and had brilliant defensive abilities. He's no Dani Alves you know. I'd say he's much better defensively than Irwin was.
You said so yourself, Socrates loves drifting to these wide left positions, to be honest, thats exactly what I want him to do because it will allow Keano to move wide with him creating a 2v2 situation between Keane and Reuter vs Socrates and Stoichkov. I'll take my chances in that 2v2.
Moreover, I think that because you're striker isn't one of the all time bests(not that he's bad at any way, Villa was a superb striker, he's not Romario though), I can afford to send Adams to join that battle if the ball is on you're attacking left and peacefully trust Vierchwood, who is one of the best man markers in history) to shut Villa out.

As for Conti vs Alaba, it's quite similar, first of all, Alaba is instructed to be much more disciplined that he is at Bayern(who dominate possession), and Alaba proven time and time again how disciplined he is when defending against strong wingers. You compared Conti to di Maria, well Alaba has done great against top wingers like him before, and again, if you start you're attack with Conti on the right, Vierchwood will be very aware of Conti cutting inside and beating Alaba than Vierchwood who is as quick as it comes will be there as the brick wall, if Conti beats Alaba to the wing and crosses, well I'm not concerned because Adams-Vierchwood there against Villa. My money is on my defenders.

1) I think there has been alot of underrating of Belodedici here.. this is a guy who marshalled the defence for unfancied Eastern European sides against Barcelona and big spending Marseille... he came up trumps both times, didn't concede a single goal in 2 champions league finals in the era of Baresi & Co... they won 3 european cups, he won 2.. for 2 different sides, imagine if he had been born Italian!!!. Both times the matches went to penalties, how many defenders have a record like that? In terms of talent, he could easily have fitted into that legendary AC Milan backline as he had immense positioning.. so I don't think he's daft enough to give Rumenigge that entire flank, plus Socrates can go towards the left flank when we are out of position, cutting off passing lines into Ruminegge.. thinks Scholes v France Euro 2004. Plus Ruminigge is more of a Reus type forward.. he isn't an elite dribbler with amazing silks, he's a powerful wing-forward/striker hybrid.. his best moments are that dangerous movement between full-back and centre-back.. Belodedici reads the game amazingly and is well-equipped to deal with clever runs.

2)



For me Francescoli... isn't as great a threat as some on here make him out to be. He's made out to be a GOAT, but he never played for a top European club like a Milan or Juve.. and as you can see from this footage.. he drifts deep, his pace is solid but not spectacular. He is creative no doubt but my team can easily delay your attacks and allow Zanetti to come back in time, if there is anyone you can rely on to be diligent in attack and defence with equal measure it is Zanetti.. he isn't Roberto Carlos, his defending comes first.. so the chances of Enzo facing Terry one v one is minimal.

3) Keane and Reuter v Stoichkov and Socrates... I'd fancy my two any day... their intelligence and ability to unlock the best defences is unquestioned, them two linking up would outfox any midfield/full back combo.. Reuter is no Zanetti, Stoichkov is the golden boot winner at a world cup.. he can easily come in off the flank and cause havoc inside.. and you're forgetting the David Villa angle.. Reuter is going to constantly face threats down his side, Keane alone is not sufficient to stem the tide.. my two players don't give up possession easily, their ability and intelligence on the ball is unquestionable.

4) Alaba played in the bayern side which conceded 5 goals against Real? Real is a side which emphasises wing play does it not... Terry has achieved far more than Adams in the professional game and Ronaldinho apart.. has never been found wanting. I think David Villa can take on Adams.. he's played against Rio and Vidic and not been found wanting.. Vierchwood is solid no doubt.. complete defender, but David Villa's goal-scoring record is remarkable... this guy was the sole goal threat of a pretty impotent Spain side and rarely did he not come up trumps, this team is much better suited to his style of play. Below is a good example of Villa is such a good fox in the box but also so strong in tight areas with back to goal, quality first touch and good at holding the ball up against physical defenders..



http://www.givemesport.com/330707-ronaldinho-picks-terry-as-toughest-opponent

 

[antohan]

It's completely ridicules, people in the caf forget how great he was at the super strong Seria A back than because he failed at United. Even this example, just because he made a single mistake against Davids in a single game doesn't make Davids Veron's kryptonite

In fairness, Davids is the sort of player I'd fancy against Verón. I don't think he'll get anywhere near him though, Ballack will be on his case IMO, and Verón won't have it easy. My issue is that I don't recall him playing anywhere near as deep at his peak, he was more advanced, while here he is doing that Pirlo-type role where he did perform relatively well for us in European games.

 

[Raees]

Can't judge Veron on his United stint - that's obvious. He wasn't a good fit for a team that far too frequently* set up in a manner which simply didn't suit his style. When we did set-up in a way which allowed him to play his natural game, he was generally brilliant - which says all you need to know, really. Poor career move on Veron's part - it happens, but nobody should be fooled into thinking he wasn't a top player, because he certainly was.

The Berbatov comparison isn't 100% apt in my opinion - as Veron in his pomp was on a level above anything Berbatov has ever shown (and I like Berbatov, just to point that out - nothing against him at all).

* For Veron, I mean - not in general.

No doubt Veron was a strong player but was he at any stage superior to any of my three midfielders? really.. was he capable of doing a Ballack.. taking Leverkusen to a CL final, Germany to a world cup final etc.. I don't really fear him in this fast and furious encounter. As long as the team presses him intelligently when he has the ball, he isn't going to cause chaos.. they should be more concerned with the play-making abilities of Ballack and Socrates.

Take two world cup examples.. ballack v Italy wc 2006, the italian side couldn't get near him - watch the game if you don't believe me and same goes for Socrates against Italy in 1982... that is what you call midfield maestro's. Does Veron have that pedigree... has he bossed a historic game where the stakes are remarkably high?

Also Scirea and Terry are brilliant at organising defences.. Didn't Scirea organise the backline which kept Rumenigge quiet in the 1982 final?

Another thing I'd like to query is that if you look through my lineup everyone has performed at the business end of either the Champions League or starred at world cups. I would question whether Veron has been able to bring that level of achievement to the table..

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

4) Alaba played in the bayern side which conceded 5 goals against Real? Real is a side which emphasises wing play does it not... Terry has achieved far more than Adams in the professional game and Ronaldinho apart.. has never been found wanting. I think David Villa can take on Adams.. he's played against Rio and Vidic and not been found wanting.. Vierchwood is solid no doubt.. complete defender, but David Villa's goal-scoring record is remarkable... this guy was the sole goal threat of a pretty impotent Spain side and rarely did he not come up trumps, this team is much better suited to his style of play. Below is a good example of Villa is such a good fox in the box but also so strong in tight areas with back to goal, quality first touch and good at holding the ball up against physical defenders..

Are you really bringing up Alaba vs Madrid? Niether goals came from a mistake of Alaba's wing - one corner(Dante lost Ramos), one free kick cross(Boateng lost Ramos), one counter attack when Bayern were all out attack and one free kick.
How can you put the blaming finger on Alaba here? Alaba was actually one of the only solid players in that match and prevented Bale and Ronaldo from doing anything on that RW, if you want we can see what @Balu can add about it.

As for Villa, you are massively overrating him, yeah he was a top striker for both club and Spain, but Vierchwood is the one called by Maradona "the hardest marker I ever faced"(or something like that), if you think Villa will get anything from him thats nonsense.

In fairness, Davids is the sort of player I'd fancy against Verón. I don't think he'll get anywhere near him though, Ballack will be on his case IMO, and Verón won't have it easy. My issue is that I don't recall him playing anywhere near as deep at his peak, he was more advanced, while here he is doing that Pirlo-type role where he did perform relatively well for us in European games.

Never said Davids won't be a tough battle for Veron(although, like you said Veron won't be troubled by Davids himself), just mentioned that pointing out a single mistake by him at his prime against Davids doesn't make Davids his kryptonite and doesn't mean Davids will constantly get the best of him.

3) Keane and Reuter v Stoichkov and Socrates... I'd fancy my two any day... their intelligence and ability to unlock the best defences is unquestioned, them two linking up would outfox any midfield/full back combo.. Reuter is no Zanetti, Stoichkov is the golden boot winner at a world cup.. he can easily come in off the flank and cause havoc inside.. and you're forgetting the David Villa angle.. Reuter is going to constantly face threats down his side, Keane alone is not sufficient to stem the tide.. my two players don't give up possession easily, their ability and intelligence on the ball is unquestionable.

Okay here's a disagreement, I don't see Socrates get anything from Keane while Reuter is a very very solid defender. Yeah he's no Zanetti, I can also say that Stoichkov isn't Ronaldinho but that doesn't change the fact that he's a top winger. Reuter is one of the best RBs in history, if it wasn't for Lahm I think he would've been in the all time German XI. Zanetti is better of course, but that doesn't say anything. Stoichkov will definitely not have a field day against Reuter, especially with Keane aiding and especially with the lack of threat on my CB duo which will allow them to support the full backs if the winger beats them and cuts to the middle.

Again, I don't see any real attacking threat here. Yes, Stoichkov and Conti will definitely beat Reuter/Alaba a couple of times during the match, but they'll face a problematic situation - should they choose to cut to the middle, you meet Vierchwood or Adams who are pretty free to assist with only Villa as the goalscoring threat, should they choose to go wide and cross whose on the receiving end of it? Villa, okay, who else? No one, I trust Vierchwood and Adams here.

For me Francescoli... isn't as great a threat as some on here make him out to be. He's made out to be a GOAT, but he never played for a top European club like a Milan or Juve.. and as you can see from this footage.. he drifts deep, his pace is solid but not spectacular. He is creative no doubt but my team can easily delay your attacks and allow Zanetti to come back in time, if there is anyone you can rely on to be diligent in attack and defence with equal measure it is Zanetti.. he isn't Roberto Carlos, his defending comes first.. so the chances of Enzo facing Terry one v one is minimal

That just doesn't make sense to me, that's just massive underrating of Enzo. Francescoli is easily one of the most creative players on the field if not the most creative one. He might not have Stoichkov's pace but he's got plenty more wisdom on and off the ball and I think Ruud will be ecstatic to have a player like him providing him passes, you can't get any better than that pairing.

1) I think there has been alot of underrating of Belodedici here.. this is a guy who marshalled the defence for unfancied Eastern European sides against Barcelona and big spending Marseille... he came up trumps both times, didn't concede a single goal in 2 champions league finals in the era of Baresi & Co... they won 3 european cups, he won 2.. for 2 different sides, imagine if he had been born Italian!!!. Both times the matches went to penalties, how many defenders have a record like that? In terms of talent, he could easily have fitted into that legendary AC Milan backline as he had immense positioning.. so I don't think he's daft enough to give Rumenigge that entire flank, plus Socrates can go towards the left flank when we are out of position, cutting off passing lines into Ruminegge.. thinks Scholes v France Euro 2004. Plus Ruminigge is more of a Reus type forward.. he isn't an elite dribbler with amazing silks, he's a powerful wing-forward/striker hybrid.. his best moments are that dangerous movement between full-back and centre-back.. Belodedici reads the game amazingly and is well-equipped to deal with clever runs.

I don't think I am underrating him, but he is facing a very difficult task here - he needs to both stop completely Rummenigge(because you don't have anyone else covering there), while at the same time looking out behind his shoulder from Ruud's movement because you suggest Scirea will get some freedom roaming forward. I don't think he can deal with Kalle on his own, he was a great defender but not a legend, Kalle was a legend. This will be an interesting battle but Kalle's goal threat will win here imo.


Adams is also being massively overrated here, one of Arsenal's best defenders of all time, one of the key reasons for Arsenal's titles.

• PFA Young Player of the Year: 1987
• PFA Team of the Year: 1994, 1996, 1997

 

[antohan]

First of all good luck @Raees
Yes Hristo was brilliant, one of the best wingers of all time, meaning Reuter won't be able to move forward as much as he'd like, but Reuter was a very disciplined defender too and had brilliant defensive abilities. He's no Dani Alves you know. I'd say he's much better defensively than Irwin was.
You said so yourself, Socrates loves drifting to these wide left positions, to be honest, thats exactly what I want him to do because it will allow Keano to move wide with him creating a 2v2 situation between Keane and Reuter vs Socrates and Stoichkov. I'll take my chances in that 2v2.
Moreover, I think that because you're striker isn't one of the all time bests(not that he's bad at any way, Villa was a superb striker, he's not Romario though), I can afford to send Adams to join that battle if the ball is on you're attacking left and peacefully trust Vierchwood, who is one of the best man markers in history) to shut Villa out.

As for Conti vs Alaba, it's quite similar, first of all, Alaba is instructed to be much more disciplined that he is at Bayern(who dominate possession), and Alaba proven time and time again how disciplined he is when defending against strong wingers. You compared Conti to di Maria, well Alaba has done great against top wingers like him before, and again, if you start you're attack with Conti on the right, Vierchwood will be very aware of Conti cutting inside and beating Alaba than Vierchwood who is as quick as it comes will be there as the brick wall, if Conti beats Alaba to the wing and crosses, well I'm not concerned because Adams-Vierchwood there against Villa. My money is on my defenders.

The bolded bits interest me here. If having Stoichkov and Conti ONLY means Reuter and Alaba stay back, it's a good deal for Viva. My problem is this perception of attacks being either/or. Say Adams has gone on this manic reinforcement mission, Socrates places a ball, not for Villa (marked by Vierchowod) but for Conti to run onto between him and Alaba. Or for Ballack surging through the middle...

While Raees stays compact in the middle and leaves the flanks to Davids/Zanetti, VivaJ plays right into what stretching the play with wingers ideally delivers: CBs going walkabout.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

The question that needs to be asked here, is even if Raees' defense is better(or better positioned), how much goal threat does he have in compare to mine? My attack has over 760 goals between them, Raees' attack has 610(including NT goals).
You can go on and on about Conti being a massive attacking influence against Alaba, which I completely think makes injustice for Alaba who did great job against Ronaldo and Bale(and di Maria), but truth be told Conti assisted a lot more than he scored, and as I said before, if he isn't a big goal threat(40 goals in 370 games) and the threat is crossing or passing to Villa, than I have no worries with that because Vierchwood and Adams are comfortably suited to deal with Villa.

The bolded bits interest me here. If having Stoichkov and Conti ONLY means Reuter and Alaba stay back, it's a good deal for Viva. My problem is this perception of attacks being either/or. Say Adams has gone on this manic reinforcement mission, Socrates places a ball, not for Villa (marked by Vierchowod) but for Conti to run onto between him and Alaba. Or for Ballack surging through the middle...

While Raees stays compact in the middle and leaves the flanks to Davids/Zanetti, VivaJ plays right into what stretching the play with wingers ideally delivers: CBs going walkabout.

I never meant to completely stop my FBs from roaming forward. I don't like this perception where football is this one dimensioned that you have to play either counter attack or possession. That the idea of my team, we're shifting around throughout the match as I stated in my tactics. Rueter and Alaba do face top wingers here so they'll have to choose more wisely when to roam. Thats the difference between me and Raees in tactics here, I took into consideration the danger from he's attacking wings and he just decided to ignore the danger from Enzo by giving Zanetti the free ticket to roam.

It's not that I'm allowing him the freedom he wants, I'm addressing the problem while he is just dismissing it as if Francescoli is Ljunberg


Alaba is probably the best LB in the world atm, very good on the ball and very aware when defending, as Balu suggested, Alaba played a few times as CDM and as LCB and haven't put a foot wrong. I'd argue that history shows he'll do very well against Conti after being the only decent player in Bayern against di Maria-Bale-Ronaldo on his wing.

 

[antohan]

BTW @Raees , Enzo not playing for Milan or Juve means nothing. In fact, Barca tried to sign him but he had an insane fee slapped on him, so they moved on to Laudrup. His agent also had a hand in all that thereafter as he used him as candy to bring other players to Europe, e.g. "Cagliari, you can have Francescoli, but will have to sign Fonseca and Herrera as well". For midtable teams that was fair cop, their three foreigners all coming from one national side and overall a great deal. That's not something the big clubs would contemplate though, Francescoli was great but certainly didn't warrant also signing an unproven striker and a good but no more than very decent rightback.

It was different times, with a modern perspective you could argue Zico was shit because he played for Udinese. Clearly not very clever, is it?

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

BTW @Raees , Enzo not playing for Milan or Juve means nothing. In fact, Barca tried to sign him but he had an insane fee slapped on him, so they moved on to Laudrup. His agent also had a hand in all that thereafter as he used him as candy to bring other players to Europe, e.g. "Cagliari, you can have Francescoli, but will have to sign Fonseca and Herrera as well". For midtable teams that was fair cop, their three foreigners all coming from one national side and overall a great deal. That's not something the big clubs would contemplate though, Francescoli was great but certainly didn't warrant also signing an unproven striker and a good but no more than very decent rightback.

It was different times, with a modern perspective you could argue Zico was shit because he played for Udinese. Clearly not very clever, is it?

Grazi. No real connection between the two.

 

[antohan]

I never meant to completely stop my FBs from roaming forward. I don't like this perception where football is this one dimensioned that you have to play either counter attack or possession... he just decided to ignore the danger from Enzo by giving Zanetti the free ticket to roam.

Seems to me you are doing with Zanetti the complete opposite by assuming he isn't defending at all.

I have to say, it's all quite confusing in terms of how the two sides are supposed to be playing and stringing their moves together. I would much prefer to see Zanetti/Davids as wideish-halfbacks, I think it's necessary here, but I'm not still clear if that's what they are doing.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

No doubt Veron was a strong player but was he at any stage superior to any of my three midfielders? really.. was he capable of doing a Ballack.. taking Leverkusen to a CL final, Germany to a world cup final etc.. I don't really fear him in this fast and furious encounter. As long as the team presses him intelligently when he has the ball, he isn't going to cause chaos.. they should be more concerned with the play-making abilities of Ballack and Socrates.

Take two world cup examples.. ballack v Italy wc 2006, the italian side couldn't get near him - watch the game if you don't believe me and same goes for Socrates against Italy in 1982... that is what you call midfield maestro's. Does Veron have that pedigree... has he bossed a historic game where the stakes are remarkably high?

He played excellently in a Copa Libertadores final very late in his career:

 

[Raees]

Stoichkov - 263 career goals (plus NT)
Socrates - 314 career goals (plus NT) 172 goals in 297 matches for Corinthians... from Midfield??
Ballack - 159 career goals (plus NT)
Conti - 49 goals (plus NT)
Villa - 308 career goals plus NT

1093.. career goals in total, now add Seedorf/Veron/Keane.. to your original total

So the goal threat isn't as muted as has been made out..

I have to head out but @VivaJanuzaj will respond to other points when come back! @antohan.. duly noted the Enzo point, wasn't aware of his possible moves to Barcelona.

 

[Raees]

He played excellently in a Copa Libertadores final very late in his career:

That is hardly a top european game though is it - the Copa isn't of the same level as the champions league in the modern era...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Copa_Libertadores_Finals

That is the lineups, I'm sorry but that doesn't qualify as a great achievement in the context of the players being discussed in this draft.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Counting career goals is extremely pointless.

 

[harms]

Imagine counting goals for the attacking unit with Romario in it

Wow, my attacking trio actually has 1102 goals between them, pretty decent. This is a strange point to argue about though

 

[Pat_Mustard]

That is hardly a top european game though is it - the Copa isn't of the same level as the champions league in the modern era...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Copa_Libertadores_Finals

That is the lineups, I'm sorry but that doesn't qualify as a great achievement in the context of the players being discussed in this draft.

No, its not quite the standard of an elite-level CL or WC game, but its still an excellent achievement. By way of comparison you mentioned Ballack vs Italy in the 2006 WC. Italy were the better team that day (in a highly competitive game granted) and Pirlo and Gattuso were the standout midfielders on the pitch imo. I just don't see how that qualifies as a more signficant achievement than Veron running the show en route to a victory in a Copa Libertadores final.

 

[antohan]

Counting career goals is extremely pointless.

I agree with this (until I get Raúl back)

 

[crappycraperson]

I agree with anto that this is closer than I expected it to be. Raaes actually has a slight edge in the midfield battle. Issue though is that his left side is virtually absent, it would mostly fall on Davids to cover that wing.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Great teams but I am edging towards Raees's team here. Viva's forwards are great but Raees's defense is perfectly set up to counter them. Playing that narrow defense would be stifling for the more centrally oriented forwards and would probably restrict their influence. Ruud also has to compete with Scirea and Terry which isn't going to be easy. You could say the lack of presence on the left flank for Raaes team could ultimately prove costly. However, Conti and Stoichkov would be deadly if given space and I can see Alaba and Reuter doing just that. They aren't necessarily reckless going forward but the team does need some much needed width that they will be needed to provide.

Can also see Ballack making life harder for Veron to dictate the tempo of the game here. At his peak Veron was one of the best midfielders in the world but Ballack was one heck of a complete player who was pretty good at hassling other players. On the flipside you can see Keane hounding Socrates here to help out Veron since I can't quite see Veron being good enough defensively to limit Socrates's influence. However, that could limit Keane's influence further up the pitch if he constantly has to keep his eye on Socrates.

The only gripe I have with Raaes team is the choice of Belodedici to play that role. I guess someone like Abidal would have been better imo.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Take two world cup examples.. ballack v Italy wc 2006, the italian side couldn't get near him - watch the game if you don't believe me and same goes for Socrates against Italy in 1982... that is what you call midfield maestro's.

Oh, I've seen the matches. I seem to recall that your midfield maestros ended up on the losing side in both of 'em.

Great players - not so great examples of their impact on high-stakes matches.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'm expecting Davids to be a permanent defensive fixtures in that wing.

So will Seedorf to prevent Conti and Zanetti owning the other side. This leaves Keane and Veron to control the middle and I have doubts on their compatibility. Esp as Viva is playing Veron deeper than Keane. Both will want to run the middle. I really don't see that effective.

I think Ballack will definitely score. His classic late runs into the box is nearly undefended.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

went AWOL for a few hours had some work to do. I'll reply now

I agree with anto that this is closer than I expected it to be. Raaes actually has a slight edge in the midfield battle. Issue though is that his left side is virtually absent, it would mostly fall on Davids to cover that wing.

I agree completely, don't see how Davids can do both this, defend from roaming midfielders and at the same time attack.

Counting career goals is extremely pointless.

Agreed, shouldn't have brought it up.

No, its not quite the standard of an elite-level CL or WC game, but its still an excellent achievement. By way of comparison you mentioned Ballack vs Italy in the 2006 WC. Italy were the better team that day (in a highly competitive game granted) and Pirlo and Gattuso were the standout midfielders on the pitch imo. I just don't see how that qualifies as a more signficant achievement than Veron running the show en route to a victory in a Copa Libertadores final.

This. Veron for me isn't weaker than Ballack, not in a million years. They are at the very least equals. Veron had great matches against some wonderful midfields. I'm baffled to see how he is regarded as a weakness just because he was shit for us, some people seem to ignore his brilliance in Argentina and Italy. Yes, he's doing a different role than he was at his best at, but like we talked about it in the context of Passarella/Scirea as a defender instead of a sweeper, we said he could've done a great job there because he was simply a great defender first, well Veron is a marvelous midfielder first of all, and he's not a stranger to defending, he's never been a classic 10.

I think Ballack will definitely score. His classic late runs into the box is nearly undefended.

I really disagree, you seem to act like Veron will not do any defending whatsoever, assuming Seedorf will be on Conti and Zanetti means Zanetti always roams(which is a huge problem for Raees), than Keane on Socrates so Veron will just be a spectator? No, he'll stop Ballack doing exactly this

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I really disagree, you seem to act like Veron will not do any defending whatsoever, assuming Seedorf will be on Conti and Zanetti means Zanetti always roams(which is a huge problem for Raees), than Keane on Socrates so Veron will just be a spectator? No, he'll stop Ballack doing exactly this

No. Veron will definitely not stop Ballack there.

Again with better defensive minded players in Keane and Seedorf, why is Veron tasked with that?

 

[Gio]

Another thing I'd like to query is that if you look through my lineup everyone has performed at the business end of either the Champions League or starred at world cups. I would question whether Veron has been able to bring that level of achievement to the table..

Veron was excellent in France '98, one of the top midfielders of the tournament.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

No. Veron will definitely not stop Ballack there.

Again with better defensive minded players in Keane and Seedorf, why is Veron tasked with that?

The threat from the combination of Stoichkov and Socrates for Keane to help shut down is much greater than the threat of Ballack's long shots. VDS is also a great shot stopper, and with Veron defending against that, Ballack will have to find space where it's not easy as you suggest. I don't need a defensive player to stop each attacking player, even Veron who isn't the most defensive minded midfielder can do a certain job defensively and you can't dismiss that

 

[antohan]

Still trying to wrap my head around this.

I think this is how Raees will wind up playing:

Socrates comparative lack of defensive workrate is made up for by Hristo. It's a very friggin' strong midfield overall, with the back three getting the best cover you could wish for against Kalle and Enzo.

I think he certainly has made a mistake (not draft/scanvote-wise) in not starting Morena there. There's no doubt in my mind he would give that defence more to think about than Villa.

Ultimately, I think the big names (Enzo/Kalle/Stoichkov/Conti) will be dealt with, with plenty of hard work and some luck, but they will (oor a mistake will settle it, but for that I may as well toss a coin). But, as they attract all the attention, I think ultimately the game will be won or lost by Keane or Ballack. I don't think Verón will be effective here, I said from the start I don't like him in that role. Socrates probably troubles Keane more than Seedorf troubles Ballack defensively but, conversely, Keane has more freedom going forward. But then, Ballack was a better goalscorer. If it were Breitner still there, his understanding with Kalle would settle it for me but, as it stands, I have a hard time deciding which of the two will win the game for their team.

I hate one and love the other, but objectively it's hard not to see both having a good case going for them.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I think Davids can play that role, I really do, he might not do a good job like he would've done at his best role in midfield. What I don't think is that he can do both defend against Kalle, defend against Keane, cover for Terry's weakness and still make bursting runs forward to trouble my midfield. I just don't see all of them happening.

 

[Raees]

Oh, I've seen the matches. I seem to recall that your midfield maestros ended up on the losing side in both of 'em.

Great players - not so great examples of their impact on high-stakes matches.

They lost but their individual performances were quality.. it is easy to pick games where they undoubtedly played well and their teams won i.e. Ballack (world cup semi).. or Socrates v USSR - but I'm highlighting two of the toughest tests in their careers and neither of them shirked their responsibilities.. they lost but did so heroically and did their job magnificently. Can you really say Socrates didn't perform his role well in that 82 classic? and Ballack was excellent in that game, but there is only so much you can do. This team is a lot more solid and plays to their strengths.

Counting career goals is extremely pointless.

I agree because you can't even place into context who those goals were scored against.. but the last thing I'll do is question Viva's goal-scoring pedigree, his front three are quality players. At the same time you can't say that Villa, Socrates, Stoichkov and Ballack haven't scored goals and plenty of them at the highest level against world-class defences.

Veron was excellent in France '98, one of the top midfielders of the tournament.

He played for a very strong Argentina side.. Batistuta, Ortega was a beast for that Argie side.. Zanetti, Ayala, Simeone and yet they still went out in the quarters to a dutch side which featured Davids who had an excellent game.

Ballack starred at world cup 02, he led the German team to semis in 06, the final in Euro 08.. the pedigree is on another level. Lets not forget Veron failed at United and Chelsea? I don't see how he can compare to a guy who dominated International football and managed to hold his own at every club he featured for.