The Overlap | Fan Debate Christmas Special

I’m 56 minutes in and all that’s happened is Benitez rambling on about how they had to compete with no money to spend. He makes it sound like they were in the same transfer market ballpark as Tranmere Rovers.

Will finish the episode but it’s not been great so far.
 
I'm 45 minutes in, even leaving aside the whining i dont think hes said anything new or interesting.
Gerrard was best as a 10. He brought on Hamann in the final to get more control. Alonso wanted to leave. Shit thats obvious and been said a million times, no further insight. He makes a bunch of random shit up about us like us buying a 50m backup striker, so i guess we find out he's bitter and deluded but the fachts rant already told us that. Hasn't gotten to that yet but im sure it'll be silly bolox if the rest of the show is anything to go by.
 
He’s absolutely bonkers. Must be a really interesting bloke to work under.

His mind is clearly as sharp as a tack. I actually quite liked the way he was able to pinpoint specific games and moments rather than the usual vague responses you hear when managers are asked to expand on what made it all unravel.

On the other hand, he was completely unable to answer the questions posed to him and spent over an hour going off on wacky tangents and excuses.

It didn’t make for great viewing, but there was something strangely gripping about where on earth it went.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
At some point he starts going into Madrid a little bit and Carragher literally shouts something along the lines of "We don't want to hear about that! We want to hear about halftime in Istanbul."

Probably because it gives Carragher a chance to talk more and get more attention.
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This was what made the episode feel unwatchable more so than anything else. Benitez obviously wasn't entirely familiar with the format of the show so it didn't flow in the same way as usual, but it was Carragher's insistence on making it all about him that made it fall flat.

Benitez went around the houses a bit and clearly hammed up some of the adversity he had to face as a manager but still came out with some interesting stuff. There were a couple of times where it felt like he was on the cusp of giving a bit more before Carragher cut him off with inane drivel.
 
Kag said:
He’s absolutely bonkers. Must be a really interesting bloke to work under.

His mind is clearly as sharp as a tack. I actually quite liked the way he was able to pinpoint specific games and moments rather than the usual vague responses you hear when managers are asked to expand on what made it all unravel.

On the other hand, he was completely unable to answer the questions posed to him and spent over an hour going off on wacky tangents and excuses.

It didn’t make for great viewing, but there was something strangely gripping about where on earth it went.
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I was amazed by his poor communication in terms of understanding the question, went on tangent
 
Kag said:
He’s absolutely bonkers. Must be a really interesting bloke to work under.

His mind is clearly as sharp as a tack. I actually quite liked the way he was able to pinpoint specific games and moments rather than the usual vague responses you hear when managers are asked to expand on what made it all unravel.

On the other hand, he was completely unable to answer the questions posed to him and spent over an hour going off on wacky tangents and excuses.

It didn’t make for great viewing, but there was something strangely gripping about where on earth it went.
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My mate worked for Newcastle during the Benitez era. Apparently he's an absolute gentleman to every member of staff, would get them Christmas presents etc. Completely obsessed with football, only person he had a bad word to say about was Zidane
 
It's not just this episode but it's been better without Carragher lately.

Nev won't ditch his buddy but imagine if they replaced him with someone like Bellamy - he is quality on tv.
 
Came across as nice but thoroughly odd. You can see he has the brain for it still but his personality just won’t endear himself to the people he works with. It’s a shame for him because by all accounts he’s a top class bloke with non football related matters.

As someone said, he clearly wasn’t familiar with how the show works so it came out disjointed and they didn’t get any of the far more interesting things they could have out of him.
 
One of the best overlap episodes IMO.

Very inciteful. The part about the girlfriend's and wife's prefer to be in Manchester or London because of easier access to international flights. It goes to show how much is involved when trying to persuade players to play for your club. He understood so much. My respect went up for him so much, not that he'd be worried about that! Very good episode and good incite into a mind of a manager who won big trophies.

I think Jamie was very excited, he interrupted Rafa many times but it's understandable, I image he had a lot of questions he needed to get off his chest. At one point Rafa put his hand out to say ''let me finish'', and he did! You could tell Jamie has a lot of respect for him.

I think maybe Rafa's weakness might be something to do with his personality - I think he might be a little stubborn in the wrong way. Jamie was clearly upset about Alonso and maybe there's something Rafa could have done to persuade him to stay.
 
Wanted to give the Rafa ep a fair shake but found it a tough listen and couldn't get through all of it. Was initially interested to see someone go a bit more into the tactical side of things but he went on so many utterly boring tangents filled with details that seemed insignificant to whatever larger picture he was trying to paint, and told it all in the least interesting way possible (they really let him go on and on for a while). And it got worse the more he felt like he had to "defend" himself, at times feeling like I was back reading the tedious post-match comments of Liverpool fans during this era. It's like if Klopp came on and talked about net spend and the wind for 30 minutes. Even if it's all true - show some restraint bro. A single line about the financial gap would've been enough, we don't need to go over the specifics of every deal.

This interview just confirmed what I feel most of us already knew about him - seems like a decent, if slightly difficult, person and clearly has a sharp tactical mind, but does not have the natural charisma or emotional intelligence that the true greats possess. You watch this interview and there's zero surprise it didn't work out for him at Real Madrid. Can you imagine that group sitting and listening to this bloke ramble on and on?
 
Smacky The Frog said:
Wanted to give the Rafa ep a fair shake but found it a tough listen and couldn't get through all of it. Was initially interested to see someone go a bit more into the tactical side of things but he went on so many utterly boring tangents filled with details that seemed insignificant to whatever larger picture he was trying to paint, and told it all in the least interesting way possible (they really let him go on and on for a while). And it got worse the more he felt like he had to "defend" himself, at times feeling like I was back reading the tedious post-match comments of Liverpool fans during this era. It's like if Klopp came on and talked about net spend and the wind for 30 minutes. Even if it's all true - show some restraint bro. A single line about the financial gap would've been enough, we don't need to go over the specifics of every deal.

This interview just confirmed what I feel most of us already knew about him - seems like a decent, if slightly difficult, person and clearly has a sharp tactical mind, but does not have the natural charisma or emotional intelligence that the true greats possess. You watch this interview and there's zero surprise it didn't work out for him at Real Madrid. Can you imagine that group sitting and listening to this bloke ramble on and on?
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Completely agree.
 
thought it was a decent episode, could have been so much more, but was ruined by the clear lack of preparation by the hosts. Carragher clearly wanted to score points and Nev obviously let him run with the lead as its his old boss. Because of that it felt random at times. The "tangents" were Rafa trying to add context and depth (which he clearly has as could recall so much detail) to the overall but as he took his time laying it out carragher (mostly) jumped in and sent it in another direction with a flippant comment. if they let him get to where he wanted then they could edit it later.

my memory was in the "facts" outburst back in the day he was factually correct (eg we did have more favourable sunday home fixtures than saturday 12.45 than liverpool) but as he lost the next few games it looked like a meltdown, but as rafa said they won 8 and drew 1 of the last 9 games (i think) so not exactly a melt down.

Another point was istanbul line up. Rafa clearly explained why he went for gerrard in midfield instead of hamman as it was attack minded and wanted to put milan on the back foot due to the way they would line up. but a few mistakes unwound that in the first half and history remembers it as an error as it often does to the losers. But carragher didnt seem to comprehend it.

Anyway i think it was a chance lost to get someones insight and views who would have been on the other fence to me and see what he thought, but carragher jsut wanted validation on his views.
maybe carraghers ego was pricked when rafa said nowadays 200m for gerrard and carragher. of which 180 is for gerrard
 
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I enjoyed both him and Jamie mentioning the Spurs game and Howard Webb as referee…

Still so so bitter! It’s beautiful.
 
Not much of a story teller is Benitez. Him saying that he wasn't the waiter at the start was decent though.
 
I quite enjoyed it. Shame we didn't get Alonso as by looks of it we almost did.
 
Benitez is a fascinating character. I enjoyed it and would’ve honestly listened for another hour if the episode went longer.

He is absolutely barmy about football and possesses a memory for things very few in the game can match. Recalling minute and (to us) inconsequential details about games and incidents ~20 years ago is absolutely bonkers.

Which brings me to my next point: it’s undeniable that Benitez presents with ASD-type traits and you’d wonder is that why people don’t ‘get’ him:

• the hyper-obsession (way beyond what others would deem obsessive) with the game
• the inability to read social cues at times and go off on separate tangents (very obvious in this episode)
• one-track mind and revisiting of themes/arguments important to him (how many times was lack of money highlighted in this one-hour interview despite it not even being relevant to the topic or question at hand)
• overly-sensitive to criticism (Benitez appears to be defending himself/his reputation every two minutes in this episode, even when not being questioned: when Neville or Keane mentioned Inter, he interjected immediately with ‘15 players over 30 years old in the squad’, despite the lads not even remotely bringing up Inter as a question mark on him)
• his lack of understanding or appreciation why going to Everton and Chelsea would rile and hurt Liverpool fans (to him, they weren’t emotional decisions and made perfect sense: Everton for family/geography reasons and Chelsea because he got to manage a big club with a chance of winning a trophy. Both decisions, to him, were completely rational)
• his exceptional memory recall of unimportant events/details within a story from many, many years prior (he knew exact figures for transfer budgets, player sales and purchases etc. from a half-lifetime ago, e.g. whenever Keane tells a story, he might use ‘he cost a few bob’ when talking about buying a player, not to mention Benitez’s incredible recollection of what the training sessions were like at United and the Spurs academy when they visited in 1999!)
• the unwillingness to let past incidents go and instead holding onto unrelenting grudges from many moons ago (whining about 12.45pm kick-offs and how many home and away games each team got after European games 15+ years later)

There are probably other indicators too that I’ve passed over but to me, he’s a standout candidate for somebody possibly undiagnosed with some spectrum disorder. There are quite a few Premier League clubs that could do with him and I think he’ll be getting a lot of phonecalls before Christmas arrives. The likes of Palace, Wolves, Fulham, Forest, Leicester etc. would benefit from his know-how and experience, you’d feel, when the pressure comes on in the coming months…
 
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gormless said:
My mate worked for Newcastle during the Benitez era. Apparently he's an absolute gentleman to every member of staff, would get them Christmas presents etc. Completely obsessed with football, only person he had a bad word to say about was Zidane
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Interesting that. I wonder what the cause of that opinion is. Maybe it has something to do with Zidane being his successor at Real Madrid.
 
Rooney wrong about UCL final with Fabio at RB.

Fabio was our RB for a long time that season, and was playing it very well.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Rooney wrong about UCL final with Fabio at RB.

Fabio was our RB for a long time that season, and was playing it very well.
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According to transfermarkt he only had 9 games at RB that season including the final. Only 4 of them were 90 mins but he did play 4 of the last 5 league games there. Looking at your bench though in the final it doesn't seem like you had many other options.
 
SilentWitness said:
According to transfermarkt he only had 9 games at RB that season including the final. Only 4 of them were 90 mins but he did play 4 of the last 5 league games there. Looking at your bench though in the final it doesn't seem like you had many other options.
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I am sure he played a lot of the UCL campaign there? Maybe I am wrong then! I remember him being part of the back 4 going into it (which makes sense given what you just said).
 
Berbasbullet said:
I am sure he played a lot of the UCL campaign there? Maybe I am wrong then! I remember him being part of the back 4 going into it (which makes sense given what you just said).
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Transfermarkt has it down as LB rather than RB for most of the CL campaign. They could be wrong of course.
 
Berbasbullet said:
I am sure he played a lot of the UCL campaign there? Maybe I am wrong then! I remember him being part of the back 4 going into it (which makes sense given what you just said).
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He started the first semi final leg and was starting at the end of the PL title run. He was playing some games at left back.
 
Yeah that's wrong. Rafael played most of our season at RB, but then he got injured and we had Fabio as our RB for the end of our CL campaign, which had a pretty set team iirc,

------------------VDS
Fabio--Ferdinand--Vidic--Evra
--------Carrick--Giggs
Valencia-Rooney--Park
-------------Hernandez

We used the same team against Schalke in the Semis, and also against Chelsea in the title run.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Yeah that's wrong. Rafael played most of our season at RB, but then he got injured and we had Fabio as our RB for the end of our CL campaign, which had a pretty set team iirc,

------------------VDS
Fabio--Ferdinand--Vidic--Evra
--------Carrick--Giggs
Valencia-Rooney--Park
-------------Hernandez

We used the same team against Schalke in the Semis, and also against Chelsea in the title run.
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Ah okay, thanks. :)
 
I find the story about SAF joking about leaving Evra out because of his past quite strange and out of character for Fergie.

I don't know him personally so I don't know what kind of sense of humour he has but it seems odd for someone like Ferguson, who was probably the greatest man manager of all time, to do something so silly.

I'd like to hear Sir Alex's version of that story.
 
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