The Modern Draft: R1 - Stobzilla vs crappycraperson

At players career peaks, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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vs
Crappy11-formation-tactics.png


...................................... Team Stobzilla ........................................................................................ Team crappy .........................................


Team Stobzilla


Overview

A 3-1-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, flexability is the key as well as a bunch of extremely quick, smart, highly technical and high working players, we press as a team and try and squeeze the space key players such as Carrick will need to operate to their fullest. Such a high line needs pace (which we have in abundance) and a goalkeeper to back them up in the modern game, here we have one of the best in Valdes.

Because of the lack of a genuine aerial threat up front I am happy to drop Lahm (who is no mug in that regard despite his height) back to the right of a back 3 to handle the threat of Franck Ribery, in terms of a 1v1 dual, there is no one better equipped to nullify the threat presented there, this is no reflection on Ribery, who will undoubtedly have some success but with Kondogbia and Vidal working back it allows Luiz to drop into a familiar LCB role on occasion should the need for cover arise.

The system is reminiscent of a more Cruyff style 3-4-3 where he used full backs as the wide players of the three for just this purpose. Defensively, Greizmann and Turan are a part of a hard working Atletico Madrid set up and will find their workload, familiar territory. They also pose a threat against a team without a top class recognised full back. Ozil will play between the lines and even look to drop in on occasion to leave Crappy outnumbered in the middle and someone will undoubtedly find space.

Up front is Wayne Rooney, a grand finisher and layer on of chances Ozil and Greizmann can feed off of, or feed directly to him.

Looking forward to the conversation, @crappycrapperson, as ever, good luck.

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Team crappycraperson


Team Tactics

Attack

Sergio Aguero, one of the contenders for best forward in the world (behind Messi and Ronaldo), leads the line upfront. A complete forward, who can finish off the chances created for him, score wonder goals, run at defenders with pace and even thread through that creative pass for someone else. Franck Ribery (finished 3rd in Ballondor 2013) plays in his best position on left wing, a position where his prime was the driving force behind Bayern's treble with him being their best player that year. Joaquin a proper winger was one of the best right wingers about during the first half of last decade. He will torment any right back part of this pool.

Midfield

The ever understated Carrick, one of the bed rocks of United's consistent run through the latter half of last decade, plays the role of fulcrum in the midfield. Partnering him will be Portugal's best midfielder of recent times, Moutinho. He is as complete midfielder as one can be, capable of playing great through balls from anywhere on the pitch and not a defensive liability in any sense. Oscar, one of the best young Brazilian talents, makes up the midfield. He has shown the ability to both play a critical role in midfield build up play and link up with attackers higher up the pitch. Possess dribbling, pace and the passing needed to make an impact from his position.

Defense

Petr Cech, a monster in his proper prime for Chelsea, forms the bed rock of the defense. Varane and Vertonghen form the central defense duo. Varane is by far the best young defender in the world right now and even a contender for best defenders currently about regardless of age. Belgian alongside has been a solid presence for both his club and country. Coentrao as a left back, provides great engine on the left, capable of running up and down the pitch all game long. He has shown the ability to link up well with attackers on the wing and would do the same with Ribery. Caceres, part of Uruguay's defense during their Copa win and recent WC campaign, a reliable presence who will provide a tenacious edge to the defense.

Key Points

- Pace of Aguero, Ribery, Oscar against the central defense duo of Otamendi and Bonucci. Even if Luiz plays there, he has the pace but not the defensive nuance to deal with likes of Ribery and Aguero.

- Stob will need to play the duo of Alaba and Lahm at full back position otherwise the pair of Ribery and Joaquin on the wings would murder his defense.[/QUOTE]
 
@Stobzilla dont you think that having the likes of ozil, kondogbia and to a lesser extent luiz is counter productive in a pressing side? Even if you can get ozil to do it, he will tire very quickly and would need to be subbed in the second half.
 
I voted Crappy. Don't think Stobs has the right personnel for this tactic. Özil won't do much for long. Kondogobia is more of a holder than a presser. Luiz is too stupid to play like this. His positional awareness if god awful. He won't be able to pull this off. Otamendi is a bit gung ho of a defender as well. I feel bad for Lahm. As an attacking unit the team is great but the other team is more likely to hold the ball better. Against this kind of width that Ribery and Joaquin provide you can't have your wingers pressing too high up and not play full backs as proper full backs. You'll get an Arsenal on your hand. Oscar and Agüero are too mobile to exploit that space. Crappy's defense might not be the best but it is quick. I can only see Griezmann and Özil utilize that. Rooney or Turan won't be dribbling much past players.
 
Snow said:
I voted Crappy. Don't think Stobs has the right personnel for this tactic. Özil won't do much for long. Kondogobia is more of a holder than a presser. Luiz is too stupid to play like this. His positional awareness if god awful. He won't be able to pull this off. Otamendi is a bit gung ho of a defender as well. I feel bad for Lahm. As an attacking unit the team is great but the other team is more likely to hold the ball better. Against this kind of width that Ribery and Joaquin provide you can't have your wingers pressing too high up and not play full backs as proper full backs. You'll get an Arsenal on your hand. Oscar and Agüero are too mobile to exploit that space. Crappy's defense might not be the best but it is quick. I can only see Griezmann and Özil utilize that. Rooney or Turan won't be dribbling much past players.
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In his prime Rooney could do this easily. Leaning towards Stobs, as I don't see his boys being kept out. He has some hard bastards in Turan and Vidal too.
 
One of my main concerns is David Luiz going awol in Stob's set-up.
 
3 points here

Lahm and alaba will have to pull wide dealing with my wingers. No way stob can keep up his shape here. In fact this seems like worst possible usage of both, neither can play their midfield role or proper full back role.

Luiz is simply not good enough to play such an important positional role in this type of formation.

In this kind of set up. Otamendi can find himself 1 v 1 against aguero. Won't be pretty.
 
I like Stobz crazy set up. It makes sense and I can see it work well but there just isn't enough quality to have the edge against Crappy who has one of the best teams in the draft at this stage.
 
NM said:
In his prime Rooney could do this easily. Leaning towards Stobs, as I don't see his boys being kept out. He has some hard bastards in Turan and Vidal too.
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Rooney in his prime didn't easily dribble. Not as a lone forward. He dribbled when he was younger but it wasn't what he did in his prime. The difference between Özil's dribbling and Rooney's is huge.
 
Snow said:
Rooney in his prime didn't easily dribble. Not as a lone forward. He dribbled when he was younger but it wasn't what he did in his prime. The difference between Özil's dribbling and Rooney's is huge.
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Yes, that is always an interesting discussion IMO. There are some who think Rooney never fulfilled his potential and his prime was actually circa Euros 2004 to his first couple of years at United, when he would run and take on players. Then some others who think his prime occured around 2010-12 when he played the forward role upfront and had that season when he scored 40+ goals.
 
1. Whenever Lahm or Alaba step up to deal with Ribery or Joaquin, it should be an easy ball forward to get Aguero one on one against Lahm.

2. Oscar is smarter than Luiz and would drag him wide well.

3. Valdes would have to deal with more crosses than he's comfortable, even though Crappy lacks real aerial threats.

4. Carrick-Caceres would probably have some trouble with Stob's plan to press. Ozil and especially Griezmann would force them into mistakes or at least long balls, though with Aguero vs Otamendi that might not be the worst thing if it leads to one good chance.

5. When Stob has the ball out left, it's Alaba-Vidal-Griezmann-Ozil vs Joaquin-Carrick-Caceres-Varane and that looks like it could be a consistent source of chance creation for Stob. The movement and power of Alaba and Vidal linking up with Ozil just looks murderous when you consider Joaquin's mediocre defensive game and Carrick's lack of pace and power. However, if the ball is lost and Alaba is up field, Aguero vs Otamendi down that left side looks troublesome.

I'm definitely leaning toward Crappy, but voting later.
 
crappycraperson said:
Yes, that is always an interesting discussion IMO. There are some who think Rooney never fulfilled his potential and his prime was actually circa Euros 2004 to his first couple of years at United, when he would run and take on players. Then some others who think his prime occured around 2010-12 when he played the forward role upfront and had that season when he scored 40+ goals.
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I definitely think he was in his prime more when he was scoring goals. He was also better in Europe those seasons.
 
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/05/20/zms-european-team-of-the-season/

Many in England protested that Wayne Rooney was being played out of position for the past couple of seasons when he often featured on the left flank, allowing Cristiano Ronaldo more of a forward role. The consensus, however, was that his ‘true’ position was as a deep-lying forward, creating chances more than finishing them. It’s a surprise to most, therefore, that he has played the best football of his career as an out-and-out striker, a poacher inside the 18-yard box – it’s not long since he was given the ‘a scorer of great goals, but not a great goalscorer’ tag. Rooney has actually played three distinct roles this season upfront. Firstly, in a 4-4-2 as an out-and-out striker who looks to link with Dimitar Berbatov, his strike partner, who plays slightly deeper. Secondly, as a lone striker playing purely as a ‘poacher’ in games United dominate possession in, in a vaguely similar way Ruud van Nistelrooy used to. Thirdly, also playing as a lone striker but playing as a false nine – dropping deep and looking to create space for midfield runners, like against Arsenal. Like Messi, Sneijder (and Cristiano Ronaldo) Rooney is proving that the very best attacking players can play well in a variety of roles. His goal away at Arsenal showed the value of the false nine role brilliantly:
 
Physiocrat said:
One of my main concerns is David Luiz going awol in Stob's set-up.
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I remember him being pretty solid for the few games when Chelsea played him as a DM. Much less chance of a feck up from him when he's played there, and it plays to his strengths a lot more. That said, I agree with the criticism above that Stobz doesn't quite have the right players for a pressing game, so even though they're closely matched teams I reckon Crappy's just about shades it.
 
It's true he has played DM well in the past, it is just that it requires more discipline and tactical nowse to play this role than a DM in a 4-2-3-1 especially when Alaba can move foward.
 
I liked the version with Lahm in midfield and Bonucci as right centerback better @Stobzilla . You couldn't help yourself and had to play a bit more gung-ho :lol:.
 
Stob has better attacking team, and if he just use a 'regular' formation 4-2-3-1, the voting would be much closer.
 
Any particular reason for ditching the initial plan of Bonucci at RCB and Lahm in midfield @Stobzilla ? Preferred that tbh.
 
Feeling like a bit of a scumbag voting against Stobz given his interesting formation and his advice to me at the outset of this :nervous:

Stobzilla said:
Have a plan and stick to it. With these drafts, the individual thinking has gone right out the window and people pick to satisfy the received consensus. Be creative, it will be more rewarding in the end, even though your soul will feel like it has been stepped on after a first round white wash.
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I would love to have voted for him as he's only a few players away from making this work, but its just too much of a leap of faith to trust David Luiz in arguably the most crucial position in the formation.
 
Lahm instead of Luiz would already be a massive improvement. He's the most intelligent defender there is.
 
Who is Stobz' sub? Luiz in that role is a definite no-no, it's basically the typical Luiz caught in no-man's land scenario just turned into his default role. With a back four behind him, fair enough, he pulls his weight going forward, but not with a three.

Shame for Rooney as I was hoping he would finally get a good draft. He certainly is one of the best players in the draft, whatever people's issues with him might be. I wonder if Stobz may have been better served with no Ozil and adding a CB.

crappy has a great team though, don't think he could lose this whatever Stobz goes for.
 
Kondobia is a bad call, you would've been better off with Bonucci on the right and Lahm in midfield. You can even play Luiz as a right midfielder and Lahm as this DM/whoever - the former has the required stamina and the latter has the intelligence.

Won't vote yet - if @Stobzilla will change something, I'll probably go with him. Not that it matters, he lost it years ago :(
 
i don't like both defenses, but at least in terms of personnel I still found Stob's a bit better despite having Otamendi.

This whole draft is shit in terms of the quality of players

Who in their right mind has Vertonghen or Otamendi or Caraceres in their team in a fantasy draft? rubbish
 
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