The Modern Draft QF2: MJJ vs VivaJanuzaj

At players career peaks, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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vs
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........................ Team MJJ ................................................ Team VivaJanuzaj .......................


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Team MJJ

Key points.

The perceived aerial dominance of D.Costa.

  • Diego Costa has faced pique seven times, during this time barcelona played a central defense of pique and mascherano, and failed to score even once.
  • Sokratis is a lot better in the air than mascherano, in the last three years, only two players have won more aerial duels than sokratis in the bundesliga.
  • So while I will concede that costa is very good in the air, he has proven ineffective against a pique(not at his peak)-mascherano pairing time and time again whereas a pique-sokratis pairing is a step up.
Attack the space-
  • Having Hazard and Bale outwide means there will be a lot of space for my attackers, them attacking the space would in turn open up more space for kaka and torres who are pretty good at attacking the space themselves.
  • In short, I have too many players capable of hurting vj from out wide and in through the middle for him to win this game.
Transition Phases:-

  • A common complaint might be that I wont be able to get ball to my attackers which would ofcourse be false. Matic is a very good, if often underrated, passer of the ball while essien will be playing his usual box to box role. Kaka is the best creative player on the pitch, next to hazard, so I will create plenty of chances.
Defense:-

  • I will admit that vj's central defenders are better than mine but I dont think there is a lot between fullbacks. Both Clichy and Baines were the best lb in the league at their respective peaks, and both were better going forward. There isnt a lot between ivanovic and picszcek, ivanovic is better defensively but picszczek is quicker and more suited to my formation. Given that my wings and attack down the centre is stronger than his, I dont think he has a big advantage here.
  • Keeper! The keeper is often overlooked in this draft but having neuer is a big advantage, neuer is an excellent sweeper keeper and a shot stopper. Proven at the highest level and able to keep his side in the game, time after time. Compare that to begovic who plays for stoke. STOKE! Thats the definition of average and there is a reason none of the best sides has gone after him at the age of 27.
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Team VivaJanuzaj

Team Tactics:

Defense: My defense is marshaled by the most complete defender in the world at his prime, Thiago Silva, who will make any attacker suffer. Silva is partnered with the big man Mertesacker, and the beauty of Thiago Silva as a defender is that he is so complete he can be a classic complimentary partner to any type of defender, and here he'll make up for Mertesacker's lack of speed, and enhance any defending unit's abilities as an unit. To complete my balanced defense, I have Ivanovic as the reliable RB who can tuck in to CB when Clichy & Lahm are going very advanced, or help at the attack as much as the best RB in the league does for Chelsea. Clichy at his prime was a superb attacking full back for Arsenal, who didn't put a foot wrong defensively. Clichy will link up wonderfully at the left wing with di Maria to create heavy pressure on the relatively weak Piszczek.
Midfield: The team is based on midfield really who is built to perfection to get the maximum of the incredible Yaya Toure. Lahm in the DM role will start attacks and deny Kaka from space in the middle, if Kaka drifts either left or right like he loves, Lahm is the perfect DM to follow him as he's got proven abilities at both LB and RB. Lahm was descirbed by Guardiola as the "smartest player he has ever coached", which means Lahm is pretty much the perfect player to do such a complexed role. Pogba adds to the team plenty of tenacity which will be needed against Essien, Pogba has the physical and technical abilities to be a good matchup for Essien, and will both deny him some influence with his work rate and will surely trouble him offensively. Yaya Toure is a midfielder which isn't easy to build a setup where he can flourish - he needs hard working players around him(which he has plenty of) to cover for him defensively. In this setup, Toure doesn't need to defend as much as expected of him in Manchester City(where he is partnered with one CM) and he'll use that freedom to dominate the middle. Yaya at his 2013/14 season for Manchester City was one of the top 5 players in the world, dominating the PL with 20 goals and 9 assists in 32 matches thanks to his superb long shots and unique vision and passing.
Attack: With Yaya Toure & Lahm's creating, I've built an attack which has both on the ball skills and the abilities to burst forward with speed in the counters. On the right, I've got Pedro who is usually underrated by most people, but his influence to Pep's Barcelona was immense. Pedro's work rate is one of a kind, pressuring LBs into mistakes really often and thus creating chances. Moreover, Pedro provides tons of goal threat with his killer instinct, at his prime Pedro was a goal creating machine for Barcelona which provided plenty of chances to everyone around him thanks to his movement between the channels. On the left, I've got di Maria, not the United one, the Real Madrid one :(. di Maria was one of the key players in RM's road to La Decima, moving around the front three to allow C.Ronaldo the free role. di Maria also played a crucial part in Argentina's WC final campaign, and his injury was a giant setback coming to the final, which was shown by their impotent attacking in that match. To complete the trio, I've got Diego Costa at the striker role, Costa's incredible form got him to 34 league goals in 44 matches for Chelsea & A.Madrid. Costa is perfect for my setup because he can play both in a counter as well as in a possession side.

Key Points:
  • Don't get carried away with MJJ's attack: MJJ's attack is, crazy good. I don't, won't and can't deny that. Will it score? It might, and it might not. Thiago Silva rallies a defensive line like no else like he did in PSG when he made average defenders like Van der Wiel, Maxwell, Alex and David Luiz form a very strong and formidable defensive line who wouldn't break easily against top teams. Thiago Silva is also surrounded with defenders much better than he's used to having - Prime Ivanovic is a monster defensively and is a very good fit against Bale, Clichy is better than any LB he played with, and getting extra protection from Lahm is a massive boost to any defense. With Mertesacker there I wouldn't count on MJJ to score from a Bale/Hazard/Baines cross.
  • Lahm against Kaka: Kaka never flourished in that sort of setup and always preformed better in a diamond, but even if he'll perform in the 4-2-3-1, Lahm is the perfect player to stop him. Lahm is quick enough to track his drifts out wide and thanks to his abilities at both LB and RB he can be as efficient in these positions. Plus, Kaka's movement is one of his best qualities, and Lahm, who was described by Guardiola as the "smartest player he's ever coached", is the player who can do such thing with most efficiency.
  • Defenses.. Oh dear my: Exactly the same way I admitted of MJJ's attacking brilliance you can't see his defense keeping a clean sheet here against my attack. Piszczek will have a very tough day against a primed di Maria on his favorite foot side. di Maria and Clichy are likely to setup plenty of crosses to Diego Costa, Yaya Toure and back post Pedro. Neither Pique nor Sokratis are nearly good enough on the air to contain that danger through an entire match. On my RW, Pedro vs Baines will be an interesting matchup. Baines was always stronger going forward, and Pedro has the workrate and pace to track him back and at times beat him on the counter. I can see Pedro getting some joy in that matchup, especially with Hazard not coming back to help.
  • The Midfield battle: Kaka doesn't fit this setup, he needs a deep playmaker behind him, with Matic & Essien there MJJ isn't using his movement for the best, leading his team to be mostly dangerous on the counter and not through build up, perfect for my defenders. On the other hand, Kaka Hazard & Torres won't do much defending, leading for my attack to overload his very unimpressive defense.
 
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If Yaya toure is going to be as adventurous as those arrows suggest, my midfield will deal with his more easily. Pedro vs Baines is also a battle clearly in my favor.
 
A few thoughts:
  • Two strong and balanced teams.
  • Kaka against Lahm would be a fascinating battle.
  • Bale against Clichy looks like a telling mismatch.
  • Don't rate Pique as highly in a deeper counter-attacking set-up which is what will be required to get the best out of Torres, Kaka and Bale.
  • Mertesacker isn't a great fit here against the nature of the opposition, but Thiago Silva has the tools to quell peak Torres.
 
Reading viva's tactical notes, I dont think his midfield is going to function really well. He is giving yaya less defensive duties than in his man city days where he is always partnered with a pure defensive midfielder. So he expects lahm to cover for the attacking tendencies of both yaya(with next to none defensive responsibilities) and pogba(naturally likes to attack and does tend to let the game drift at times) while tracking kaka and still be a creative presence? Thats one role too many imo.

he team is based on midfield really who is built to perfection to get the maximum of the incredible Yaya Toure. Lahm in the DM role will start attacks and deny Kaka from space in the middle, if Kaka drifts either left or right like he loves, Lahm is the perfect DM to follow him as he's got proven abilities at both LB and RB. Lahm was descirbed by Guardiola as the "smartest player he has ever coached", which means Lahm is pretty much the perfect player to do such a complexed role. Pogba adds to the team plenty of tenacity which will be needed against Essien, Pogba has the physical and technical abilities to be a good matchup for Essien, and will both deny him some influence with his work rate and will surely trouble him offensively. Yaya Toure is a midfielder which isn't easy to build a setup where he can flourish - he needs hard working players around him(which he has plenty of) to cover for him defensively. In this setup, Toure doesn't need to defend as much as expected of him in Manchester City(where he is partnered with one CM) and he'll use that freedom to dominate the middle. Yaya at his 2013/14 season for Manchester City was one of the top 5 players in the world, dominating the PL with 20 goals and 9 assists in 32 matches thanks to his superb long shots and unique vision and passing.
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Before I read anything else I must admit I did laugh when I saw the two keepers :p

Neuer...Begovic. Neuer....Begovic.
 
Torres is annihilating Mertersacker on the counter here...
Clichy has his hands full with Bale. Lahm is a super DM but may not have the physicality needed to stop a Kaka burst of acceleration. Matic and Essien are disciplined and physical monsters, Yaya and Pogba won't get the freedom they need.

On the other hand Costa would be brutal to that CB pairing, and Pedro can ru on to a good through ball inside Baines whose positioning isn't the best. Unsure about di Maria vs Pisz... in a 1v1.

Also, Neuer.

I can see viva dominating possession with a super midfield, but on the counter, Hazard-Kaka-Bale-Torres is too good to be true.

EDIT: Unfortunately, T. Silva is let down by the sheer slowness of his partner, and Ivanovic is up against one of the few players who could probably destroy him. They are the best defenders on the pitch across both teams though.
 
MJJ said:
Reading viva's tactical notes, I dont think his midfield is going to function really well. He is giving yaya less defensive duties than in his man city days where he is always partnered with a pure defensive midfielder. So he expects lahm to cover for the attacking tendencies of both yaya(with next to none defensive responsibilities) and pogba(naturally likes to attack and does tend to let the game drift at times) while tracking kaka and still be a creative presence? Thats one role too many imo.
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I agree with this, partly. I think his midfield is really good and the excellence of Lahm should cover the weaknesses of Toure and Pogba. However, in doing that, you simply have to accept Lahm's role is restricted to a purely defensive one. It's nothing bad either, allowing Lahm to focus explicitly on Kaka and leave the creative duties to Yaya and Pogba is probably the best strategy. However, my concern would be even if Lahm can nullify Kaka then Ivanovic is going to have to deal with Hazard one v one an uncomfortable amount of times. Toure will not provide Ivanovic with the regular support he needs and unless Pedro is busting a gut constantly to get back then that is going to be a big issue in Viva's team, I feel. With Mertesacker alongside Ivanovic, combine that with Torres's movement, and I think Viva is relying heavily on Thiago Silva's quality here. Granted, Silva was that good he might be able to get away with it, but it's certainly something that needs addressing.

Two last things I would add - I disagree with Viva's assessment of his team's aerial ability. Sokratis and Pique should be able to deal with Costa and Toure is not an aerial threat in the slightest. He's scored a grand total of two headers for City I think and his heading ability is really poor for a man of his stature, and I also feel Toure's long-shot is getting overestimated a little - basically, it's very unlikely it's going to decide the game.

Finally, Viva's strongest point is his wingers, as has been highlighted. Baines and Piszczek? Will avoid commenting on the latter too much as I have not seen him play many times but Baines has never really been anything notably above average defensively, and I get the same impression from Piszczek. Di Maria and Pedro should be able to get some joy out wide, especially with Hazard and Bale not exactly known for their tracking back.
 
Silva and Mertesacker looks like a very solid partnership if they are defending deep. Torres and Kaka are both negated to the max by a deep defense and Silva and Mertesacker would dominate completely in the air.

Torres won't be able to have a top performance if the opponents fall back defensively, Kaka is good enough to still perform even if ideally he'd get to abuse his pace.

The battle between Lahm and Kaka would be very interesting, personally I think that Kaka needed a great playmaker behind him. That way he could make runs in to space to receive balls - and he is faster than Lahm so he'd have a hard time handling that.

But now it looks like Kaka will primarily need to receive the balls at his feet from Essien/Matic as they'd mishit too many passes if they tried to play too complicated passes.

That really suits Lahm to a tee. Kaka will receive the ball at his feet with Lahm already in his back ready to pressure Kaka to lose the ball or to have to play it back to someone else.

Defensively Viva's wings are very solid with Di Maria and Pedro being incredibly hard workers defensively as well. Offensively MJJ's wings with Baines/Piszczek being strong offensively as well.

Overall I'd have the wings as more or less even, Ivanovic-Pedro is outstanding defensively and much better than any of the wide pairings.

Then offensively VJ doesn't have that cut-throat quality and I think he relies on Pogba/Touré to score to win this. I would think that a Bale/Hazard play leads to one goal for MJJ. Pedro-Di Maria-Costa will lead to another and then the question is if VJ can make his central midfield make enough sense for another.

I would like to hear some further details on how the team is set up to play? I can only see VJ's team work as a purely defensive team who are set up for the counter. Where Pedro/Ivanovic defend as a unit and Di Maria and Clichy.
 
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MJJ's team is very strong and direct. VivaJ definitely has the superior defence. But then MJJ has Neuer.
 
I'd like to add, having been in the managers PM with @MJJ - he is an extremely motivational and impressive leader. All the boys will be playing their bollocks off for him and that is an effect that can not be underestimated.

Can the same be said for VivaJanuzaj?
 
MJJ gets my vote. His attack is brilliant, while I don't rate Viva's setup highly. I'm surprised, as he is usually spot on.
 
@BobbyManc viva is also expecting Lahm to help creatively in attack and cover the flanks. Have no idea how he expects to maintain any shape in his midfield with Lahm doing three jobs simultaneously.
 
Yeah, seems lost now at 8:0.
Guess we can start drafting only attacking players without any above mediocre defenders and it's good enough
 
It may be close until you look at the goalkeepers. No-brainer. I was surprised that Begovic was picked at all tbf.

Also, not sure if Lahm will be capable to handle Kaka on his own. Man-marking never was his defining quality, even if he was decent at it - and he doesn't have the pace to keep up with the Brazilian. On the flank you have limited space and he manipulated it brilliantly as a defender, but there is too much space in the center for him not to lose Kaka after his burst of acceleration.

Lahm was/is a fantastic DM, but in a different system and playing a different role than he is here. Not a man-marker to Kaka. And Kaka+Torres on the loose is too much for Silva and Mertezacker to handle, considering that one of them is actually slower than snail.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Guess we can start drafting only attacking players without any above mediocre defenders and it's good enough
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?? It's a strange statement coming from you. His midfield is defensively more solid than yours due to MJJ having two piano-carriers, and none of your defensive players apart from Silva will be a definite starter in the compiled XI. And, well, a goalkeeper :lol:

Neuer
Ivanovic/Piszczek (same level on their peaks, different style) - Silva - Pique - Clichy/Baines (both mediocre, really)​
 
@MJJ looks great and very robust going forward and in midfield. The defence is a bit rubbish and underwhelming by comparison, but it is well protected by the midfield and a fabulous keeper in Neuer.

@VivaJanuzaj has a strong central core in Silva-Mertesacker-Lahm but the rest leaves a lot to the imagination and optimism as to how it will work out.

Voting VJ because he got stood up, the poor thing. Who knows, we may find out he is actually a she and looks like this:

Stood-Up-Bar.jpg


It takes a special kind of moron, doesn't it?
 
Odd match up.

MJJ's attack is great but is matched by Viva's defense except Bale vs Clicky mis-match.

MF wise, I give edge to Viva.. Lahm will give Yaya and Pogba the license to attack but they will still contribute defensively.

But... Viva's attack looks a bit meh.. Di Maria as we all know can be very mercurial but he will have the upper hand over Pisczeck and Pique IMO. Pedro.. I don't rate.
 
harms said:
?? It's a strange statement coming from you. His midfield is defensively more solid than yours due to MJJ having two piano-carriers, and none of your defensive players apart from Silva will be a definite starter in the compiled XI. And, well, a goalkeeper :lol:

Neuer
Ivanovic/Piszczek (same level on their peaks, different style) - Silva - Pique - Clichy/Baines (both mediocre, really)​
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:confused:
Ivanovic is one of the best RBs in the world at his prime, Piszczek is average at his prime which was guarded by how much Dortmund attacked and controlled the ball in his much shorter peak. Clichy was a monster for Arsenal, where Baines is a leader in a 10th placed Everton.
Essien is no water carrier, if you think he is a DM at his prime you got it all wrong.

Annahnomoss said:
Start? That has always been the case.
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Sad, I could've taken Robben & di Maria instead, kept Song as the DM because who cares about defense when you've got good forwards. That's what LVG thought anyway and look how it unfolded.
 
In light of the way people seem to react to the match, I'll lie to myself and my football knowledge in order to make a change.

Mertesacker Out, Gotze in.

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Yaya Toure switches to his Barcelona days as the DM, sitting above the defensive line and covering the defense. Gotze adds much more firepower and attacking threat to the team. Ivanovic-T.Silva are much more comfortable against either Torres & a roaming Kaka than Mertesacker could've ever been.

@Edgar Allan Pillow
 
Honestly a much better set up. Silva/Ivanovic/Lahm make that the best defense in the draft and Clichy has such a good help from Silva on his turn is covered by Ivanovic-Lahm.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Honestly a much better set up. Silva/Ivanovic/Lahm make that the best defense in the draft and Clichy has such a good help from Silva on his turn is covered by Ivanovic-Lahm.
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It doesn't get the best of the best version of Yaya Toure, which is what I wanted to build and I believe I've achieved with the last formation. Maybe I didn't need it though.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
It doesn't get the best of the best version of Yaya Toure, which is what I wanted to build and I believe I've achieved with the last formation. Maybe I didn't need it though.
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The best version of Yaya isn't very highly rated on here. Not someone you can build a team around.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Ivanovic is one of the best RBs in the world at his prime, Piszczek is average at his prime which was guarded by how much Dortmund attacked and controlled the ball in his much shorter peak. Clichy was a monster for Arsenal, where Baines is a leader in a 10th placed Everton.
Essien is no water carrier, if you think he is a DM at his prime you got it all wrong.
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Piszczek is average? Shorter peak - yes, but average? I'm not sure if you are serious. Especially when you are calling Clichy "a monster". He was poor man's cashley - not a bad player, but nothing extraordinary. Baines is better offensively and worse defensively, but they both aren't top quality fullbacks.

Essien is a water-carrier. He isn't a DM, but a defensive box-to-box, and in this role he provides more defensive cover than Pogba and Toure combined.

Your criticism seems rather hypocritical to me, even with our, obviously, different views on players here. Even if we have Ivanovic over Piszczek, you still occupy only 2,5/5 in my combined XI (what a shitty way to judge anything though).

P.S. just found out that you actually faced MJJ with Piszczek on your side earlier :lol: Interesting
 
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Annahnomoss said:
The best version of Yaya isn't very highly rated on here. Not someone you can build a team around.
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This. I actually found it odd that the team looked set up to get the best out of Yaya. Yaya feckin' Toure, while others sport Ronaldinho or Kaká...
 
antohan said:
This. I actually found it odd that the team looked set up to get the best out of Yaya. Yaya feckin' Toure, while others sport Ronaldinho or Kaká...
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If he would've been as utilized in Manchester City in the same way I utilized him, I imagine he'd just below them. He definitely has the potential for it, its just seems too darn hard to build a team around him.

harms said:
Piszczek is average? Shorter peak - yes, but average? I'm not sure if you are serious. Especially when you are calling Clichy "a monster". He was poor man's cashley - not a bad player, but nothing extraordinary. Baines is better offensively and worse defensively, but they both aren't top quality fullbacks.

Essien is a water-carrier. He isn't a DM, but a defensive box-to-box, and in this role he provides more defensive cover than Pogba and Toure combined.

Your criticism seems rather hypocritical to me, even with our, obviously, different views on players here.
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He was never as good as Ivanovic is. You got one season in Dortmund where he was really good but still wasn't one of the ones to shine between the Dortmund players, so to describe him as a better defender than a CL winning, team leading Ivanovic is pretty laughable imo.
As for Clichy and Baines, Baines barely stands up in an era which there are very bad generation of full backs, and always looks just meh, while Clichy stood up in both CL and PL in a generation with plenty of top tier LBs. He wasn't the best of the lot, but he's definitely better than Baines.

As for Essien, I agree he provides more than both Pogba and Yaya defensively, but he's not the type of DM that would've never get caught out of position.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Lukas Piszczek - Not the most attractive name in terms of RBs, but this guy is one of the main reasons for Dortmund's Bundesliga title and CL final last year. At 27(last year), he was one of the most experienced players in that side leading them to glory. On his time, proved vital and extremely solid against some of today's best wingers - C.Ronaldo, di Maria(CL semi final), Robben, Ribery(Bundesliga). Not saying he's amazing, but he's proven himself time and time again against Europe's top wingers.
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VivaJanuzaj said:
Okay, first of all, I'm in nowhere suggesting Piszczek will be enough to mark out Ronaldo, but last year's CL semi final Piszczek faced C.Ronaldo one on one multiple times and in two games Ronaldo scored only once and didn't set up any goals, find me a RB with better stats against Ronaldo than that. Again, I'm not implying that Piszczek will neutralize C.Ronaldo in any way, but to claim that he's going to tear him a new one goes against the facts.
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Changing your tune here viva :lol:
 
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