The Millennium Draft - Final - Isotope vs Physiocrat

[Synco]

TEAM ISOTOPE:

TEAM PHYSIO:

ISOTOPE TACTICS

Formation: 4-3-3, packed with pace and creativity!

Why this team would dominate the game:

Creative Midfield: Veron and Vidal are the playmakers, combining vision and passing to set up plays.

Explosive Attack: Up front, we have Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry, and Robben—a fast, skilful and dynamic trio. They can go wide or move centrally, making them unpredictable and a nightmare for defenders.

Relentless Pace: Our attackers are all lightning-fast, forcing the opposition to sit deep, creating bigger gaps for us to exploit between their lines.

Rock-Solid Defense: Cannavaro and Rio Ferdinand form a wall that’s tough to break. The defense is backed by Makélélé, an under appreciatively skillful player that his loss started the end for Madrid’s los galacticos in early 2000.

Spoiler: Makélélé - skills

The team also gives the best platform for Ronaldinho, one of the game’s most skillful and entertaining player, to bring this kind of magic.

----------------------------

PHYSIO TACTICS

Tactics – Mixed
Formation – 235 in possession/ 442 is the organised defensive phase
Defensive Line – Balanced
Marking – Zonal

The side is built entirely around Andrea Pirlo in his peak DLP role with Davids and Essien as exceptional wide shutters to provide him cover but also to allow Marcelo and Lahm to play a very aggressive offensive game. The defence is pretty GOATtastic – Nesta and Thiago Silva is an incredible and complementary pairing; both are athletic CBs capable of covering wide if necessary when Lahm and Marcelo bomb-on together. Kaka comes in at 10 to recreated his legendary partnership with Pirlo. Reus provides pace, trickery and industry. Lewandowski has exceptional link up play and of course tons of goals.

In the organised defensive phase, Reus goes to LM with Kaka at 10 so Essien moves to RM. Kaka at 10 will also be extremely dangerous on the break.

 

[Synco]

@Isotope @Physiocrat Good luck for the final - two beautiful teams you got there.

 

[mazhar13]

Wow, these two teams are absolutely incredible. Given how good they are, I'm inclined to pick the side I prefer more rather than the side that's more likely to win. This can easily end up as a draw.

 

[Physiocrat]

Really nice side from Iso but since it is the final, I will go into nitpick mode.

I wonder if Henry and Dinho are that complementary. Both peak Dinho and Henry wanted to be on the ball a lot and do things themselves. it's not like Bergkamp Henry where, Bergkamp lived to serve Henry. On the other hand Kaka, Reus and Lewa is a perfectly complementary front three who all synergise well - the goalscorer, the selfless second-striker and the creative 10.

In the midfield area I think Veron will have a much harder time than Pirlo : Davids and Essien will cause Veron more problems on the ball than Makelele and Vidal will with Pirlo especially since Makelele (I assume) will be keeping an eye on Kaka.

Also reducing Veron's influence will make it difficult for Iso to progress the ball that well - Rio was a very tidy player but his passing is a level below Thiago Silva, plus Marcelo and Lahm are much better passers than Bobby Carlos and Zambrotta.

Finally Cech at his peak was almost unscorable against so if a world class save is needed I'd rather have him than Cesar.

 

[mazhar13]

Really nice side from Iso but since it is the final, I will go into nitpick mode.

I wonder if Henry and Dinho are that complementary. Both peak Dinho and Henry wanted to be on the ball a lot and do things themselves. it's not like Bergkamp Henry where, Bergkamp lived to serve Henry. On the other hand Kaka, Reus and Lewa is a perfectly complementary front three who all synergise well - the goalscorer, the selfless second-striker and the creative 10.

In the midfield area I think Veron will have a much harder time than Pirlo : Davids and Essien will cause Veron more problems on the ball than Makelele and Vidal will with Pirlo especially since Makelele (I assume) will be keeping an eye on Kaka.

Also reducing Veron's influence will make it difficult for Iso to progress the ball that well - Rio was a very tidy player but his passing is a level below Thiago Silva, plus Marcelo and Lahm are much better passers than Bobby Carlos and Zambrotta.

Finally Cech at his peak was almost unscorable against so if a world class save is needed I'd rather have him than Cesar.

How will your side deal with Ronaldinho when he comes inside to pick up the ball? Is there a plan to at least mitigate that in some way?

 

[Isotope]

Henry is the ultimate team player, as proven with Barca that he didn't always hugging the ball to himself.

Just like Ronaldo, Rivaldo, and Ronaldinho. They're all like to dribble or having the ball, but it could work.

 

[Isotope]

Vidal is a capable playmaker also, so there won't be problem if Veron is man-marked tightly.

 

[mazhar13]

Did Pirlo ever have accompanied by two non-creative players on his sides, during his career? He had Seedorf + , Rossi +, Pogba +, etc.

Notably, in both legs against United in the 2007 CL semi-finals, Pirlo was accompanied by Ambrosini and Gattuso with Seedorf and Kaká the two #10s behind a striker.

 

[Isotope]

Notably, in both legs against United in the 2007 CL semi-finals, Pirlo was accompanied by Ambrosini and Gattuso with Seedorf and Kaká the two #10s behind a striker.

Yes just realized that. Kaka was more of a SS, with Seedorf did the linking. So the team would still need this linking player.

 

[mazhar13]

Yes just realized that. Kaka was more of a SS, with Seedorf did the linking. So the team would still need this linking player.

I think Physio's plan is to have Kaká fulfill that linking role whilst Reus functions as more of an inside forward. That's what I get from the OP, at least. It can work, but I think the team would get even more out of Reus as the more creative link with Kaká as the second striker.

 

[Physiocrat]

How will your side deal with Ronaldinho when he comes inside to pick up the ball? Is there a plan to at least mitigate that in some way?

Well in the organised defensive phase we will be in a 442 with Essien at RM and Lahm RB with Nesta RCB. It doesn't get much better than that.

Dinho will have most joy in transition. I assume Iso will go 4411 with Veron at LM with Robben at RM with Dinho at 10.

If Iso can get a good long through ball then he will have some space but there's not many better than Essien to cover the space there nor Nesta coming out.

 

[Isotope]

I'm surprised that knowing my 4-3-3 formation, Physio goes with 4-3-1-2, where 4-3-3 is a cryptonite to that formation.

 

[Physiocrat]

Henry is the ultimate team player, as proven with Barca that he didn't always hugging the ball to himself.

Just like Ronaldo, Rivaldo, and Ronaldinho. They're all like to dribble or having the ball, but it could work.

The problem is Barca Henry is not peak Henry, plus in that front three you had Eto'o who didn't like to get his foot on the ball like Dinho or Robben.

With the 3Rs Ronaldo was post peak and didn't do nearly as much dribbling as we think of when we think of him, Dinho was much younger and less influential than he was a few years later. It was really Rivaldo that stole the show.

 

[Physiocrat]

I'm surprised that knowing my 4-3-3 formation, Physio goes with 4-3-1-2, where 4-3-3 is a cryptonite to that formation.

Why is it cryptonite?

 

[Physiocrat]

I think Physio's plan is to have Kaká fulfill that linking role whilst Reus functions as more of an inside forward. That's what I get from the OP, at least. It can work, but I think the team would get even more out of Reus as the more creative link with Kaká as the second striker.

It's fluid. Both Kaka and Reus can drop when necessary. There's more than enough creativity between them to make this work really well. Also Seedorf wasn't as creative as Iso makes out although he was certainly a good all-rounder.

 

[Isotope]

I think Physio's plan is to have Kaká fulfill that linking role whilst Reus functions as more of an inside forward. That's what I get from the OP, at least. It can work, but I think the team would get even more out of Reus as the more creative link with Kaká as the second striker.

Admittedly, I didn't follow Reus career closely, other than when Dortmund was still the dog. But wasn't he more of a Raumdeuter (using the FM term) instead of linking player?

 

[Isotope]

Why is it cryptonite?

The width is mostly provided by fullbacks, and they're against 2 of the best wingers around. Not to mention when my fullback helping out the width battle. Having your midfield to help out fullback, it frees up my midfield.

 

[Physiocrat]

The width is mostly provided by fullbacks, and they're against 2 of the best wingers around. Not to mention when my fullback helping out the width battle. Having your midfield to help out fullback, it frees up my midfield.

What shape are you going in the organised defensive phase? 451, 433, 442, 441 or something else?

 

[mazhar13]

Admittedly, I didn't follow Reus career closely, other than when Dortmund was still the dog. But wasn't he more of a Raumdeuter (using the FM term) instead of linking player?

One could describe him as such when he was becoming a bigger name at Mönchengladbach under Favre. However, at Dortmund, he was more involved in the build-up than a typical raumdeuter and displayed more creativity. If anything, he comes closest to Kaká in terms of his playing style from what I've seen.

When I made my earlier comment about flipping Kaká and Reus's roles, it's because Reus can offer a good amount of creativity from the wide areas as well and has more experience playing as a winger. Kaká can then focus more on looking for free spaces to operate in and stretching the opposition just as he notably did against United in 2007.

 

[Synco]

Would call neither Davids nor Essien 'non-creative'. They can create a lot with the ball, they don't need to be playmaker types for that (same with Vidal on the other side). To me, that diamond is close to perfection in terms of personnel. As for playmaking from the back, there's plenty of ability with Pirlo, Silva, and the FBs.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Went for Iso as I just rate his attack slightly better.

Rest are dead even.

 

[Isotope]

What shape are you going in the organised defensive phase? 451, 433, 442, 441 or something else?

4-1-4-1 that can vary to 4-1-3-2

 

[Physiocrat]

4-1-4-1 that can vary to 4-1-3-2

Thanks for that. The reason I don't buy 433 as kryptonite for the diamond is that it only makes sense if you are going to leave the front three high when I attack. If so you have acres of space to attack behind where the full backs would be. However if you do that, I will certainly as you won't have the bodies back to defend. So either you go 451 ish where Robben and Dinho drop back to defend deep or 4411 and keep Dinho at 10. In which case it's going to be harder for you to exploit the space on the counter than you originally claim.

Now it is true there can be space in transition but you don't have the best passers to transition that well except Veron and if he is mitigated (by Essien) I think you aren't best placed to exploit the counter.

 

[Physiocrat]

Went for Iso as I just rate his attack slightly better.

Rest are dead even.

Do you think you can get peak Dinho and Henry in the same side?

 

[Enigma_87]

Do you think you can get peak Dinho and Henry in the same side?

Out of interest why it wouldn't? I see Iso's side as very direct. The team seems on the same wavelength without the need of slowing the game where the issue with Zidane/Henry might occur. Robben, Henry, Dinho liked to play on front foot and fast paced game. Dinho and Eto'o was a great partnership and the role Henry plays here it's a very similar to the role Eto'o occupied. Now yes, they are different players, but Henry wasn't that much of a ball hog, rather than Arsenal main man who naturally would see most of the ball.

 

[Isotope]

Do you think you can get peak Dinho and Henry in the same side?

They sometimes just change sides, just like Henry and Pires here.
The beauty of Henry is he's goalscorer and provider. 377 games with Arsenal: 228 goals and 98 assists in non stat-padding era.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Would call neither Davids nor Essien 'non-creative'. They can create a lot with the ball, they don't need to be playmaker types for that (same with Vidal on the other side). To me, that diamond is close to perfection in terms of personnel. As for playmaking from the back, there's plenty of ability with Pirlo, Silva, and the FBs.

Yep, it was the quality and balance of Physio's midfield, along with that superb quality in the build-up from his defence, that won my vote.

 

[Physiocrat]

Out of interest why it wouldn't? I see Iso's side as very direct. The team seems on the same wavelength without the need of slowing the game where the issue with Zidane/Henry might occur. Robben, Henry, Dinho liked to play on front foot and fast paced game. Dinho and Eto'o was a great partnership and the role Henry plays here it's a very similar to the role Eto'o occupied. Now yes, they are different players, but Henry wasn't that much of a ball hog, rather than Arsenal main man who naturally would see most of the ball.

And this is why you won't have peak Henry with Dinho, his influence will be diminished playing him in an Eto'o role.

Also Veron wasn't the most direct playmaker and would try and slow the play down himself although given that he's deeper it would be less of a problem than Zidane/Henry.

 

[Physiocrat]

Let's highlight a different problem. Iso's left side is suspect defensively with Bobby Carlos and Dinho on the same side. Kaka really liked the inside right channel and with support from Lahm will cause Bobby no end of problems. I could actually see Bobby lunging in and being sent-off

 

[Enigma_87]

And this is why you won't have peak Henry with Dinho, his influence will be diminished playing him in an Eto'o role.

Also Veron wasn't the most direct playmaker and would try and slow the play down himself although given that he's deeper it would be less of a problem than Zidane/Henry.

Eto'o role was just an example. In their 05/06 season from memory Bergkamp wasn't playing that much and Henry was leading the attack sometimes in a 4-5-1. His partners were RvP (in a left winger role) and Reyes who was also sort of wing forward/SS like Robben and Henry was playing in the main striker role, obviously not as a conventional 9, like Eto'o was. Henry assists dipped a bit, but he was in a more advanced role and main scorer role so naturally he was mostly at the end of the attacks.

For France as well he played in his later years as a striker with Malouda and Ribery on either side and again was pretty natural in that role both scoring and creating whilst stretching the defence. IMO Henry isn't really a problem in such set up either as a part of an attacking duo or as a versatile 9.
IMO he was not optimal with a target man and a conventional 9 who occupied the space in the box.

Looking at Veron position that's Lazio Veron who at the time was more advanced and direct compared to his later DLP years.

The issue that might come up against Iso are his flanks as he has two attacking full backs coupled with two wide forwards who would also move between the lines and would provide less support compared to other type of wingers/forwards on the back foot.

However against a diamond I guess it's a less of an issue.

 

[Physiocrat]

Eto'o role was just an example. In their 05/06 season from memory Bergkamp wasn't playing that much and Henry was leading the attack sometimes in a 4-5-1. His partners were RvP (in a left winger role) and Reyes who was also sort of wing forward/SS like Robben and Henry was playing in the main striker role, obviously not as a conventional 9, like Eto'o was. Henry assists dipped a bit, but he was in a more advanced role and main scorer role so naturally he was mostly at the end of the attacks.

For France as well he played in his later years as a striker with Malouda and Ribery on either side and again was pretty natural in that role both scoring and creating whilst stretching the defence. IMO Henry isn't really a problem in such set up either as a part of an attacking duo or as a versatile 9.
IMO he was not optimal with a target man and a conventional 9 who occupied the space in the box.

Looking at Veron position that's Lazio Veron who at the time was more advanced and direct compared to his later DLP years.

The issue that might come up against Iso are his flanks as he has two attacking full backs coupled with two wide forwards who would also move between the lines and would provide less support compared to other type of wingers/forwards on the back foot.

However against a diamond I guess it's a less of an issue.

Reyes and RVP were not playmaker types akin to Dinho. Yes, they held the ball more than a target man but they weren't playmaker types.

Malouda and Ribery with France were there to serve Henry so I don't see the relevance with the Dinho partnership.

With Henry I think he is best in a front two with either a facilitating mobile striker, like Benzema, or with a creative forward, obvious example being Bergkamp. In a front three I can also see him working but someone like Boniek instead of Dinho.

Why is the lack of defensive support not a problem against a diamond when I'm essentially in a 235 in the organised attacking phase.

 

[Physiocrat]

@oneniltothearsenal What's your take on the Dinho Henry partnership here?

 

[Gio]

In the midfield area I think Veron will have a much harder time than Pirlo : Davids and Essien will cause Veron more problems on the ball than Makelele and Vidal will with Pirlo especially since Makelele (I assume) will be keeping an eye on Kaka.

Also reducing Veron's influence will make it difficult for Iso to progress the ball that well - Rio was a very tidy player but his passing is a level below Thiago Silva, plus Marcelo and Lahm are much better passers than Bobby Carlos and Zambrotta.

Finally Cech at his peak was almost unscorable against so if a world class save is needed I'd rather have him than Cesar.

I'm not sure if I agree with these points.

Firstly, Veron and Davids had some classic duels in Serie A and the World Cup. Davids is any playmaker's kryptonite but Veron still impressed, influenced the game, and demonstrated his own physical side. I say all that while still very much enjoying the make-up of your midfield.

Secondly, Carlos could use the ball very well. He had more of a range than Marcelo. Granted he played higher-risk balls, but that was in keeping with the way football was played pre-2008.

Thirdly, Cesar and Cech were both best-in-the-world standard at their peak. I think Cech had a more sustained time at the top - at least prior to his injury - but for me there is little in their peaks. And on your specific point what I remember most about him was that touch-around-the-post from Messi in that CL semi-final in 2010. Cech of course had a famous one against Holland in 2004.

 

[Physiocrat]

I'm not sure if I agree with these points.

Firstly, Veron and Davids had some classic duels in Serie A and the World Cup. Davids is any playmaker's kryptonite but Veron still impressed, influenced the game, and demonstrated his own physical side. I say all that while still very much enjoying the make-up of your midfield.

I don't doubt that. My point was more that I see Veron having more of a hard time than Pirlo who seems to me has a lot of time and space to influence the game from deep.

Secondly, Carlos could use the ball very well. He had more of a range than Marcelo. Granted he played higher-risk balls, but that was in keeping with the way football was played pre-2008.

Again true, but as a pair I'd rather have Marcelo and Lahm than Zambrotta and Bobby during build up. It is compounded for Iso that Makelele is the deepest midfielder, if he had Rodri he could progress the ball quite well but he is left with Rio, who whilst tidy, I remember putting terrible chipped long ball forwards on a regular basis.

Thirdly, Cesar and Cech were both best-in-the-world standard at their peak. I think Cech had a more sustained time at the top - at least prior to his injury - but for me there is little in their peaks. And on your specific point what I remember most about him was that touch-around-the-post from Messi in that CL semi-final in 2010. Cech of course had a famous one against Holland in 2004.

I remember Cech's career better than Cesar but pre-injury Cech was insane - it was that difficult to score past him.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

@oneniltothearsenal What's your take on the Dinho Henry partnership here?

Hmm, in theory it could work but it can also be suboptimal because at their peaks they both did like to operate in the same areas of the pitch. Some games Henry would drop fairly deep in the center of the pitch and I could see him facilitating a good run from Dinho or heck I can see some plays like the disaster (for Arsenal) in the 2006 CL final where Dinho is in the center of the pitch and puts Eto'o through in front of him for the PK. I have no problems with Henry as the CF in a 433 or 4231 and it could work beautifully but I would say there is also a chance of them not operating at their best.

 

[Physiocrat]

Hmm, in theory it could work but it can also be suboptimal because at their peaks they both did like to operate in the same areas of the pitch. Some games Henry would drop fairly deep in the center of the pitch and I could see him facilitating a good run from Dinho or heck I can see some plays like the disaster (for Arsenal) in the 2006 CL final where Dinho is in the center of the pitch and puts Eto'o through in front of him for the PK. I have no problems with Henry as the CF in a 433 or 4231 and it could work beautifully but I would say there is also a chance of them not operating at their best.

Thanks for your take

 

[Physiocrat]

Congrats @Isotope

 

[mazhar13]

Well done to Physio for making his first final and assembling a brilliant side throughout the draft. Isotope, though, had a formidable team that very few could have beaten. He's a worthy winner here.

 

[Physiocrat]

Well done to Physio for making his first final and assembling a brilliant side throughout the draft.

 

[Isotope]

Congrats @Isotope

Thank you, Physio. I can see you put lots of thought on the system and upgrading the players.

To be fair, I was just lucky with all those upgraded players. Strangely, they're just there available to be picked to slot in the team.

Although picking Thiago Silva (non- first two players pick) before my turn, that is an excellent strategy. I see what you did there.