As in everyone starts at 0-0 then 1-0 teams play each other then 1-1 etc
The league cup should be converted to a Swiss system
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) review both the Everton and Bodø/Glimt victories at Old Trafford. Listen to the guys discuss 2 wins and 7 goals in the last week, analyse of the Amorim formation, focus on Amad and how he is playing, and also take a look at Hojlund, Rashford & Zirkzee – who starts v Arsenal?
What?
Big night was it fella
Someone drinking too much?
I think we should go for the Botswanian system myself
I would unironically like the CL to replace the group stages with the Swiss system. Would make it way more exciting from the get-go.
Wouldn't this turn it into more of a league?
Am I the only one picturing about 10 teams in one stadium all rotating squads when a goal goes in?
You what, mate?
I like turtles.
I think the Swiss system is from chess, or at least its used there. It means the players that win their games, play the players that win their games and losers play losers, it's designed to show who the best players are over 12 rounds or so, in a field of hundreds, without it being a knockout competition and without everyone having to play each other.
But, if you apply thay system here and the losers aren't knocked out,nitt basically stops being a cup competiom
I’d rather just turn the competition into a Swiss roll.
I think you need a lot of competitors in Swiss style tournaments for it to work ideally.
The reason it works really well in chess is you might have 100+ players. Sometimes several hundred. Which means there are going to be many tied on a score and therefore many unique matchups throughout the competition.
If you just have 32 teams you're going to be playing and replaying the same teams which would ruin all the tension in the tournament. If you expanded it to merge with the Europa and Conference League you would have quantity but a dilution of quality, and an insane number of completely meaningless matchups from teams on poor scores. You would need a way to actually have jeopardy in those games.
The reason it works really well in chess is you might have 100+ players. Sometimes several hundred. Which means there are going to be many tied on a score and therefore many unique matchups throughout the competition.
If you just have 32 teams you're going to be playing and replaying the same teams which would ruin all the tension in the tournament. If you expanded it to merge with the Europa and Conference League you would have quantity but a dilution of quality, and an insane number of completely meaningless matchups from teams on poor scores. You would need a way to actually have jeopardy in those games.
Plus I just don't really think it works in football, you'd have too many games compared to the knockouts of a league, it would probably be worse for entertainment and it would seem too similar to the league. Domestic cups appeal is the knockout aspect and the anything can happen, the whole magic of the fa Cup stuff. A Swiss style system just makes it more like the league, harder for smaller teams to succeed and more weighted in favour of the big clubs
It would be a very good format for a potential super league, but as a domestic cup, I don't think so
I'm neutral about the idea. Don't know much about the Swiss method but I do know that their flag is a big plus.
It's also used in certain esports.
Let's say there's a 16 team tournament with a predecided seeding.
No. 1 ranked team plays no. 16 ranked team in the first round. No 2. plays no 15. and so on.
Teams that go 1-0 in the first round play each other in the 2nd round of fixtures, same with the 0-1 teams.
You need to win 3 matches to advance into the next round of the competition. Lose 3, and you're out.
In this format, there would be 2 teams going through with a 3-0 record, 3 teams going 3-1, and another 3 teams going 3-2.
Same with the teams that don't make it through: 0-3, 0-3, 1-3, 1-3, 1-3, 2-3, 2-3, 2-3.
The faster you manage to win 3 games, the better seeding you will have in the knockout stage (e.g. the 3-0 teams can only play the 3-2 teams in the first round of the KO stage).
This is just a short description and there would be issues with it that need resolving: In a 32 team tournament, you could play as much as 11 games if my math is correct, however the first teams to advance would only play 6. So the better you perform, the less money the club will receive because you play the less matches in the first stage of the tournament. Also, in European competitions, teams from the same nations would have to play each other early on before the KO stage, or there would have to be a workaround this issue.
I never understood the Swiss system. But the UEFA is about to adopt it for the CL right?
Yes, but they are also increasing the number of teams. Would be a good format IMO if they were staying with 32 or cutting down to 24 even.
It's also used in certain esports.
Let's say there's a 16 team tournament with a predecided seeding.
No. 1 ranked team plays no. 16 ranked team in the first round. No 2. plays no 15. and so on.
Teams that go 1-0 in the first round play each other in the 2nd round of fixtures, same with the 0-1 teams.
You need to win 3 matches to advance into the next round of the competition. Lose 3, and you're out.
In this format, there would be 2 teams going through with a 3-0 record, 3 teams going 3-1, and another 3 teams going 3-2.
Same with the teams that don't make it through: 0-3, 0-3, 1-3, 1-3, 1-3, 2-3, 2-3, 2-3.
The faster you manage to win 3 games, the better seeding you will have in the knockout stage (e.g. the 3-0 teams can only play the 3-2 teams in the first round of the KO stage).
This is just a short description and there would be issues with it that need resolving: In a 32 team tournament, you could play as much as 11 games if my math is correct, however the first teams to advance would only play 6. So the better you perform, the less money the club will receive because you play the less matches in the first stage of the tournament. Also, in European competitions, teams from the same nations would have to play each other early on before the KO stage, or there would have to be a workaround this issue.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as I said in another post I think it would work much better in a potential super league. But it takes the luck element out of the cup competition to an extent, which some people might favour, but a big appeal of the domestic cups is that anything can happen, minnows can knock out giants etc, some people might be against that and say the best team should win and yeah fair enough, but we already have a league to judge the most consistent side, I don't think people would be responsive to a cup competition that removes that element of "anything can happen"
There's still variance, just less, like you said. The knockout stage would still exist, though, and that's where the magic usually happens anyway.
Ah OK I missed the part where's there's still a knockout, but even still, it means basically no league one or below sides reaching this knockout stage, it takes away some of the magic, and probably adds too many games to the calendar for premier league sides if they have to play in preliminary rounds. It's an idea, but I guess it's the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I just think the whole footballing community would be hugely resistant to this, a straight knockout competition compliments the league better than this Swiss style system
Swiss, Swiss Bish.
Yes, with the amount of teams partaking in the League Cup, it's probably not the best format. I was thinking more about the European competitions when writing my replies.
Think players should take turns kicking the opposition up the arse until one team surrenders.
I think it would work really well for a super league, because you'd get different teams winning the games each season, but it might not fill enough games for what they were wanting.
So to clarify do you mean like getting rid of champions league groups altogether, and just everyone in one big pot, then go from the Swiss system, then the knockout stage
Yes, I think the group stages need changing or replacing in the CL and EL, but the knockout stages should be untouched.
I suppose that could work. If it led to the better teams making the knockout stages, I'd be in favour of that. The domestic cups are one thing, but in the champions league the better team usually wins, and a minnow making it out of the group stage usually ends up being a thrashing in the last 16, so I wouldn't be opposed to a system that led to less variance
Swiss system: you score a penalty by knocking an apple off the goalie's head; refs wear Rolexes; only a red card if it's worse than a Xhaka foul; Roger Federer presents the trophy.