The lack of athleticism

[Malone_Post]

This needs addressing over the next few windows. And addressing quickly. We have far too many players who just don’t have the legs for PL football. It’s staggering how many less talented teams consistently out battle and out run us.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Why don't they have the legs for it? Eriksen I understand, maybe even Casemiro. But the rest? They train almost every day, they have professionals coach them on fitness, they have professional chefs and dietritians sorting out their meals. What's the excuse?

I'm of the opinion we still have a hangover from past cultural influences within the club that led to less than desirable traits, rather than it being purely physical. Laziness, lack of professionalism, poor work ethic, entitlement. Rashford epitomises it.

 

[Red Rash]

This needs addressing over the next few windows. And addressing quickly. We have far too many players who just don’t have the legs for PL football. It’s staggering how many less talented teams consistently out battle and out run us.

Agreed but you'd imagine in the next week this will be somewhat fixed with a few changes

Yoro in a CB
Ugarte and Mainoo in CM
Hojlund at ST

This would already bring more athletic players into the team. We still need to keep pushing on this though.

 

[Shane88]

Rashford is finished physically, 100%.

 

[avgp_1]

It's been our biggest issue for a while now. Just not suitable for modern football

 

[GlazersHater]

It's clear that we desperately need to improve our fitness. Two great passes from Casemiro and Bruno to Garnacho and Dalot both of which didn't end up on a shot because the players we're gassed once they reached the ball.

I know it's not easy to sprint 40-50 meters but feck this is the premier league you'd expect players to make it.

 

[Cutch]

Why don't they have the legs for it? Eriksen I understand, maybe even Casemiro. But the rest? They train almost every day, they have professionals coach them on fitness, they have professional chefs and dietritians sorting out their meals. What's the excuse?

I'm of the opinion we still have a hangover from past cultural influences within the club that led to less than desirable traits, rather than it being purely physical. Laziness, lack of professionalism, poor work ethic, entitlement. Rashford epitomises it.

Recruitment. We've been buying slow centre halfs and centre midfielders for years. Even wingers lacking pace like Anthony and Sancho. Zirkzee another slow one to add to the list

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Think they just said as a team we ran 102km which is the 2nd lowest this season in the Prem. We do need legs. It’s weird that Cas and Ugarte were a really good combo under Ruud and I expect to see them together again soon.

 

[M Bison]

Redknapp just mentioned how low our running stats were in the game, it’s been the same for the past few seasons.

Was it Brentford first game of the season a year or so ago that EtH made each player run the difference in the two teams running stats in training the following day?

I’ll never understand not putting a shift in, I get differing abilities but running less than the opposition is just basic.

 

[Irwin99]

Ralf called it 4 years ago. EtH said he wanted a really fit team and put his players through a supposedly intense fitness program (and inexplicably bought some slow players) but didn't solve it. Lets hope Amorim can fix this.

 

[Chicharo]

The local commentator mentioned that we are also the team that has covered the fewest kilometers in the final 15 minutes of matches.
It's clear that we’re struggling with significant fitness issues.

 

[dwd]

It is not an overnight thing, it’s going to take months before we see a real improvement in this department.

 

[Malone_Post]

Recruitment. We've been buying slow centre halfs and centre midfielders for years. Even wingers lacking pace like Anthony and Sancho. Zirkzee another slow one to add to the list

Our profile of recruitment over the past few years has been absolutely shocking. Constantly buying players who just don’t have the athleticism needed for the PL, then putting them all in a team together. Hopefully this changes under Ruben. He seems to have called it as an issue very early on.

Realistically any XI starting with Evans, Casimero & Eriksen at the heart of the team is going to struggle in the PL. Hopefully that’s the last we see of them as a starting trio. We need a big clear out of these type of players this summer, while simultaneously focusing on bringing in young athletic players who have the energy, pace and fitness for PL football.

 

[Malone_Post]

Ralf called it 4 years ago.

The worst thing about this is that the club then continued to buy players that didn’t suit the profile needed.

 

[Borys]

I agree this is a problem but surely there must be another, additional reason those players looked so slow/static today.

Also, it's been clear for like 2 years we can't play Casemiro and Eriksen in two man midfield in EPL away games, and here we are. But I also doubt there was any other option today.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

I agree this is a problem but surely there must be another, additional reason those players looked so slow/static today.

Also, it's been clear for like 2 years we can't play Casemiro and Eriksen in two man midfield in EPL away games, and here we are. But I also doubt there was any other option today.

Would be incredibly disappointed if we trot those two out next game. Can understand the first game he had limited time but needs to get things sorted quickly

 

[Redstain]

Ralf called it 4 years ago. EtH said he wanted a really fit team and put his players through a supposedly intense fitness program (and inexplicably bought some slow players) but didn't solve it. Lets hope Amorim can fix this.

I think there's a slight nuance to both, Erik recruited / formed a team that has relatively good endurance but being poor when it comes to physical composition.

Even Delap today, hardly a powerhouse but looked to shrug multiple defenders off in different periods of the game.

It's a reason why I'm behind the club obtaining a defender like Branthwaite as given his standing he should be solid in shoulder to shoulders and clearing the box from ariel threats.

But it wouldn't be the first time being deceived, Hojlund is on paper genetically well profiled but when seeing him play looks like a 5ft8 individual, without the balance, explosiveness someone with a lower center of gravity possesses.

 

[Borys]

Would be incredibly disappointed if we trot those two out next game. Can understand the first game he had limited time but needs to get things sorted quickly

That, plus Amad as wingback. I think we are lucky to get away with a point and massive lessons learnt package. No worries at the moment.

 

[holdsteady]

Ralf called it 4 years ago. EtH said he wanted a really fit team and put his players through a supposedly intense fitness program (and inexplicably bought some slow players) but didn't solve it. Lets hope Amorim can fix this.

They spent the last 2 summers complaining they ran too much

 

[El Jefe]

This has been a problem for a long long time but was made worse with ETH and now we are left with a team that has players that can't run or players who aren't physical enough. To make it worse we have some important players in the team that can do neither.

This was the most glaring difference watching his Sporting side. I think nearly every comment mentioned how he was in for a rude awakening with these a lot of our squad.

I can imagine our team will look completely different by the end of next season.

 

[KjaAnd]

On the one hand, I’m happy Amorim mentioned this, on the other, I’m somewhat disappointed he chose to start Casemiro, Eriksen together anyways. It’s been clear for years, we need players with more pace, power and intensity.

 

[Sancho99]

Could the academy provide us something that we are missing in this team? By playing Amad at RWB it seems he wants more of an attacking profile playing there but Amad clearly needs to be further up the field.

Obviously he had Quenda at sporting. We have Mantato(probably too early) in the academy who has played at full back for England and is a similar kind of player. Wonder whether we could look to promote.

 

[Malone_Post]

On the one hand, I’m happy Amorim mentioned this, on the other, I’m somewhat disappointed he chose to start Casemiro, Eriksen together anyways. It’s been clear for years, we need players with more pace, power and intensity.

I’m hoping (praying) it was simply down to availability and none of Mount, Mainoo & Urgate being able to start the game.

The fact that he hooked all of Evans, Cas & Eriksen during the game gives me hope that he already knows it just won’t work in the PL, especially with a system as physically demanding as the one he wants to implement.

 

[m1tch]

The players haven't had their hearts in it for about a year, you can't just turn on stamina and sharpness like a switch when it suits.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Why don't they have the legs for it? Eriksen I understand, maybe even Casemiro. But the rest? They train almost every day, they have professionals coach them on fitness, they have professional chefs and dietritians sorting out their meals. What's the excuse?

I'm of the opinion we still have a hangover from past cultural influences within the club that led to less than desirable traits, rather than it being purely physical. Laziness, lack of professionalism, poor work ethic, entitlement. Rashford epitomises it.

I know that McKenna has said that he specifies athleticism (and the ability to do it for a full match) as being an essential quality in a player. It looks like Utd don’t necessarily do that. Not that they have no athletic players, but that it’s not a prerequisite. Some of that is a hangover from the league one and championship days, where you simply have to win the battle before you can win the game.

 

[the hea]

The players haven't had their hearts in it for about a year, you can't just turn on stamina and sharpness like a switch when it suits.

This is the problem. The only way to build up your stamina and to maintain it is through hard work and dedication. You can have the best coaches, the best equipment and the best nutrionists but if the players are not ready to put in the hard work every single day none of those things matter.

 

[Marwood]

Why don't they have the legs for it? Eriksen I understand, maybe even Casemiro. But the rest? They train almost every day, they have professionals coach them on fitness, they have professional chefs and dietritians sorting out their meals. What's the excuse?

I'm of the opinion we still have a hangover from past cultural influences within the club that led to less than desirable traits, rather than it being purely physical. Laziness, lack of professionalism, poor work ethic, entitlement. Rashford epitomises it.

So do all the other clubs. Have our lot got the natural athleticism needed though?

 

[Adnan]

This needs addressing over the next few windows. And addressing quickly. We have far too many players who just don’t have the legs for PL football. It’s staggering how many less talented teams consistently out battle and out run us.

It could've been addressed in the summer window just gone but for some strange reason it was decided that we had to sign Ugarte and Zirkzee who imo wasn't needed due to his profile. I think the backline has potential when everyone is fit but the midfield is nowhere near good enough as a collective unit to propel the team forward as far as playing a more dominant brand of football.

The issue isn't just athleticism which I've been banging on about for years. But the issues when it comes to the midfield as a composition is that we not only lack athleticism and recovery pace but also the inability to play out of confined spaces against the opposition press. Mainoo will provide some of the missing ingredients when it comes to playing in confined spaces but he needs to be backed up by players alongside him in midfield who have the physical, athletic and technical qualities to play a more vertical game. So keeping the ball, evading the press and breaking lines at a good level is an absolute requirement for the defensive and deeper midfield lines. And our midfield as a composition just isn't balanced enough to control opposition transitions and also not good enough in-possession to evade the press and progress the ball forward. When your midfield lacks the aforementioned attributes as a collective, then the ceiling of the entire team is affected. When your deeper midfield players or CBs lack in the aforementioned attributes then you allow the opposition to be even more effective in their own game plan which is what has been happening.

I've been saying the same thing for years and I'll say it again, we need to raise the physical, athletic and technical quality of the team with the deeper midfield positions being our weaknesses. Just one player with the right attributes coming into central
midfield could have a big impact because the backline seems to have potential. And until proper upgrades are brought in it might be wise to not go too attacking against certain teams. Because as you saw with the game earlier, all three results were possible where we could've lost/won but ended up drawing.

 

[AndyMindMk5]

Hello to all. I am long time lurker over here. And I just signed to say this.
I agree with op, we are so bad in athleticism. I am 42 y old, but i was pole vaulter back in the day, and honest to god I look more ready and better than 80% of our players. Idk how we got to this point.
Amorim need big suport from overheads to clean this s..t.

 

[arthurka]

We still play like we have the best team but we certainly aren't the best and we certainly aren't the hardest working team. I really dislike this group of players.

 

[SER19]

I agree to an extent and certainly in terms of today, but the following line up has plenty of athleticism for example, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's what we see emerge this season, fitness pending.

...................Onana............

...........Yoro....De Ligt...Martinez.....

Mazraoui..Ugarte..Mainoo...Garnacho

..................Bruno...Diallo.......
......................Hojlund........

Compared to today that's taking out Evans, Dalot, Casemiro, Eriksen, and Rashford.

So I don't think overall it's a crisis, but we need more depth for sure, but this feels fairly natural- eriksen and casemiro for example would always have been phased out from next summer.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree this is a problem but surely there must be another, additional reason those players looked so slow/static today.

Also, it's been clear for like 2 years we can't play Casemiro and Eriksen in two man midfield in EPL away games, and here we are. But I also doubt there was any other option today.

Because they’re learning a new formation/system. So they’ll have all been obsessing about team shape and not being caught out of position. Which inevitably causes a static performance. Once they relax a bit more it will all get more fluid and they’ll play with more freedom and cover more ground.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Why don't they have the legs for it? Eriksen I understand, maybe even Casemiro. But the rest? They train almost every day, they have professionals coach them on fitness, they have professional chefs and dietritians sorting out their meals. What's the excuse?

I'm of the opinion we still have a hangover from past cultural influences within the club that led to less than desirable traits, rather than it being purely physical. Laziness, lack of professionalism, poor work ethic, entitlement. Rashford epitomises it.

I mean there doesn't have to be an "excuse", we simply didn't prioritize much athleticism or combo of athleticism and technique.

 

[-Supreme-]

Rashford is finished physically, 100%.

Is his physically this bad that he couldn’t break a sweat after 10 mins into the game, having had a full week off?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Is his physically this bad that he couldn’t break a sweat after 10 mins into the game, having had a full week off?

Jet lag’s a bitch.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I agree to an extent and certainly in terms of today, but the following line up has plenty of athleticism for example, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's what we see emerge this season, fitness pending.

...................Onana............

...........Yoro....De Ligt...Martinez.....

Mazraoui..Ugarte..Mainoo...Garnacho

..................Bruno...Diallo.......
......................Hojlund........

Compared to today that's taking out Evans, Dalot, Casemiro, Eriksen, and Rashford.

So I don't think overall it's a crisis, but we need more depth for sure, but this feels fairly natural- eriksen and casemiro for example would always have been phased out from next summer.

Not really. Martinez and De Ligt both aren't very good athletes. Garnacho is solid but not a world beater. Bruno isn't great athletically but at least has good stamina. Ugarte is a decent athlete but pretty poor technically. Then you have Casemiro and Eriksen who both might as well be stationary in fast paced games. Antony is weak and not quick enough to make up for it. Zirkzee is quite slow and doesn't seem capable of even busting a sprint. Evans/Lindelof/Maguire all poor athletes. Rashford I'd consider a poor athlete these days considering he doesn't run much, has only average pace, and loses any duel he bothers to contest.

Mount and Shaw are both up to standard but they are both sicknotes. Amad is up to standard as he plays far stronger than his frame. Hojlund is a very good athlete but horrid technically. Dalot and Maz are both quality athletes. And then you have Yoro who is an excellent athlete.

 

[Marwood]

To balance this out, didn't we until recently have the most succesful tackles in the final third across Europe?

Can't do that with a lazy team.

 

[Woziak]

It’s hardly surprising when Evans, Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen have a combined age of 130

Evans can’t play wide in a 3 man defence in the EPL, Casemiro and Eriksen can’t play in a double pivot.

We desperately need a true high octane midfielder like Ederson from Atlanta.

I would also let Erikson to.be let go and the club resign Angel Gomes. Having options like; Ugarte/Casemiro/Kobbie/Ederson and Angel Gomez allows you to rotate the engine room and also occasionally use Kobbie or Angel Gomez in the inside 10, so sometimes use three with one in the 10 position.

Casemiro will be gone in the summer so 4 options would be ideal with Bruno and Mount being used in one of the 10 spots.

United need an elite Left footed Wing back like Alphonso Davies or Nuno Mendes and an elite experienced number 9.

Marcus needs to be given til Xmas because he could play second striker if he can’t work hard enough then united need to make him part of a bigger decision that might include any three from the following four being sold;
Garnaucho is a great young player but doesn’t suit the system because he’s too wide to play in the two behind the nine, Rashford might still somehow fetch £50m if he gains some form, Zirkzee looks lost in the EPL and Rasmus might be sacrificed to get a more sure thing.

Maybe Three of those four players go for £130 -150m which is roughly what you could buy Osimhen and Krava from Napoli for or Victor Gyokeres and Brian Mbeumobo

We need a huge upgrade in the attacking positions. As well as lowering the age of the midfield dramatically and the work needs to start immediately in the January window, the club is now being prepped for Open Heart Surgery.

 

[NZT-One]

This needs addressing over the next few windows. And addressing quickly. We have far too many players who just don’t have the legs for PL football. It’s staggering how many less talented teams consistently out battle and out run us.

I think it is a mixture of a) not playing smart, b) actually not having many players who are at least above average in terms of athleticism and c) too many players being enough hungry enough. It is nice that this pops up now, lets see whether it sticks to peoples minds when they continue their best-elevents with Eriksen-Casemiro-Shaw-Martinez and Rashford.

Think they just said as a team we ran 102km which is the 2nd lowest this season in the Prem. We do need legs. It’s weird that Cas and Ugarte were a really good combo under Ruud and I expect to see them together again soon.

Were they? Were they really good? Or were they not as shit as earlier pairings? Depending on the system we want to play, some players simply don't have a place in the team. With 3atb, you usually don't have a sitting DM - one of the CB takes most aspects of this role in most cases. The 2 players in there have to be mobile and industrious plus they have to be useful in all aspects of the game. Right now this only applies to Mainoo and Ugarte, maybe(maybe!!!!) Bruno against really easy and stand-off-ish opposition. Minutes for Eriksen and Casemiro are wastes of time at this point. We'd be better off giving them to young players - when they are good, they might have a future here, if they aren't good, at least we know and can sell them. Only place for Eriksen and Casemiro should be cup games.