The Impossible Draft R1 - prath vs Ecstatic

With players at career peak, who will win this draft?

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Edgar Allan Pillow

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VS

........................................... TEAM PRATH .......................................................................................... TEAM ECSTATIC ...........................................

TEAM PRATH:

Write up

Arguably one of the best modern goalkeepers is our goalkeeper. David de Gea is a very good shot stopper beaten very rarely, if at all.

In front of him is a back 3 of no nonsense defenders. Oscar Ruggeri, a mainstay for Argentina’s World Cup win in 1986 and final run in 1990, Kolo Toure, a rock during arsenal’s invincible run under Arsene Wenger and Jose Nasazzi, who was a key member of the Uruguayan lineup in the 20s and 30s.

Wingbacks here are the ever reliable Javier Zanetti on the right and Maxime Bossis on the left. Both are very good at both ends of the pitch

The central midfield pairing are the soviet rock Valery Voronin who will screen the defence with Englishman Bryan Robson in an all round role, which he is great at.

Dennis Bergkamp will be the striker flanked by Eden Hazard and Jimmy Johnstone.

Tactics

Defence

The defence is solid with Ruggeri, Toure and Nasazzi shielded by Voronin and De Gea in goal. Additional help by Zanetti and Bossis when needed will ensure the team will be very solid defensively

Attack

Two wingbacks excellent in attacking in Zanetti and Bossis. Bryan Robson was excellent in attack and Dennis Bergkamp was one of the most technically gifted strikers of his era. He is flanked by Johnstone and Hazard, both of whom are wily and who possess that extra bit of magic in creativity.

TEAM ECSTATIC



Striker - SEELER - 1936 - West Germany: 72 caps (43 goals) - 449 Goals/ 549 Games - Ballon d’Or 60: 3rd place
“Uns Uwe” is one of the greatest strikers in the History of the Game: complete forward with a fantastic activity all over the pitch, excellent stats ofc. @Šjor Bepo did great videos about him on DailyMotion. This video gives a good overview of his style of player for the posters not familiar with the drafts



LW - NEYMAR - 1992 - Brazil: 88 caps (56 goals) - Time will tell us if he becomes definitely the greatest player born in the 1990s - ECL Winner
His CV and stats speak for themselves. Unplayable when fit, which isn't the case at the moment given his recent injury. So let's analyze Neymar version 2015/16 with Barcelona. From a tactical standpoint, his positioning is interesting in the sense that he oscillates between the left wing and the central area. Some stats: 105 goals in 186 games with Barcelona, 56 goals in 88 games for Brazil: simply the 3rd best scorer in the history of the Seleção Brasileira de Futebol...



RW - FIGO - 1972 - Portugal: 127 caps (32 goals) - ECL Winner
A Ballon d'Or you know too but you shouldn't forget



Playmaking Midfielder - HAGI - 1965 - Romania: 125 caps (35 goals) - The greatest Romanian footballer of all time
One of the best attacking midfielders in Europe during the 1980s and '90s. Galatasaray fans called him 'Comandante' ('The Commander') and Romanians call him 'Regele' ('The King'). 'The Maradona of the Carpathians' will operate between the opposing midfield and defensive lines. His tactical intelligence will be key in this game. He can support the defence and act a second striker when possible.

DM - LAZATTI - 1915 - Copa America winner - El Pibe de Oro (The Golden Kid) - Boca Junior Ambassador
In the spirit of the draft, great opportunity to present this player who won 10 titles with Boca Juniors, the only Argentine team where he played. Lazzatti's position on the field was central midfielder, being notable for his skills with the ball and elegant style of playing. Argentine: He was part of the squad that won the 1937 Copa América when Argentina beat Brazil by 2-0 in the final at Estadio Gasómetro. Lazzatti was part of the midfield line along with Antonio Sastre and Celestino Martínez. Boca Juniors: Lazzatti formed a memorable midfield line with Carlos Sosa and Natalio Pescia in the squad that won the 1943 and 1944 championships. That team overshadowed River Plate La Máquina, being regarded as one of the best Boca Juniors teams ever.

DM - STIELIKE - 1954 - Germany: 42 caps - World-Class Complete Defensive Midfielder with Gladbach & Real - To be discussed later
Good sweeper with Germany but essentially a World-Class Defensive Midfielder at the club level. Main Honours: 1980 Euro Winner + 1982 World Cup Runner-Up + 4 Times Spanish Foreign Player of The Year. @Joga Bonito did great videos



LB - NILTON SANTOS - 1925 - Brazil: 74 caps - WC Winner in 58 and 62 - Botafogo Ambassador
Born in Rio de Janeiro, he was a pioneering attacking left back, being one of the first full backs to make runs down the wing to participate in the offensive game. He was world class both at defending and attacking and possessed very good technique.

LCB - PERFUMO - 1942 - Argentine - Nicknamed El Mariscal
Considered as one of the best Argentine defenders ever. At club level, this robust guy played for Racing, River Plate and Brazilian team Cruzeiro. With the national team, he played the 1966 and 1974 World Cups.

RCB - BERGOMI - 1963 - Italy: 81 caps - WC Winner 1982 - Inter Milan Ambassador
Complete and versatile defender (RCB-RB-Sweeper) who will lead the defence and doesn't need introduction.

RB - McGRAIN - 1950 - Scotland: 62 caps - Celtic Glasgow Ambassador - To be discussed later
By the mid 1970s McGrain was considered by many to be one of the best full-backs in the world. He played as what is known today as an attacking full-back and contributed significantly in both attacking moves as well as in defence. His abilities included a burst of speed, skill and control on the ball, vision and anticipation and, when required, a strong but fair sliding tackle. Once he said: "I have never envied today's players the money but the freedom they have, to go forward". Total freedom for him today.

GK - RUDAKOV - 1942 - USSR: 42 caps - Considered as the best GK at the Euro 1972
Contributed to the successes of Dynamo Kiev in the 60s-70s. Nominated twice for the Ballon d'Or, in 1971 when he came 12th, and 1972 when he came 18th. Probably the 3rd greatest Soviet GK behind Yashin and Dasayev.
 
TEAM PRATH:

World Cup Winners

Jose Nasazzi - Uruguay 1930
Oscar Ruggeri - Argentina 1986

Champions League winners

Jimmy Johnstone - Celtic 1967
Javier Zanetti - Inter Milan 2010

Copa America Winners

Jose Nasazzi - Uruguay 1923/1924/1926/1930
Oscar Ruggeri - Argentina 1991/1993

1990s - Eden Hazard, David De Gea
1980s - Kolo Toure
1970s - Javier Zanetti
1960s - Oscar Ruggeri, Dennis Bergkamp
1950s - Bryan Robson, Maxime Bossis
1940s - Jimmy Johnstone
1930s - Valery Voronin
1900s - Jose Nasazzi

Europe

1. David De Gea - Spain
2. Bryan Robson - England
3. Maxime Bossis - France
4. Eden Hazard - Belgium
5. Dennis Bergkamp - Netherlands
6. Jimmy Johnstone - Scotland

South America

1. Jose Nasazzi - Uruguay
2. Oscar Ruggeri - Argentina
3. Javier Zanetti - Argentina

Asia

1. Valery Voronin - Russia

Africa

1. Kolo Toure - Ivory Coast
 
Still think that prath missed the trick by not going with a 4-4-2. I'm sure some target striker could've been found. Don't like the idea of Bergkamp spearheading the attack, and Johnstone would've been better with a pure 9 up front. That Robson - Voronin midfield is quite something though (and as good as it gets for a 4-4-2 in a draft with restrictions).

Ecstatic's team looks mint, love the front 4.
 
Is Bergkamp playing as a false 9? I really like Praths team. Toure is a weaknesss but it is well hidden in a 3 man defense

Lazatti is a great pick for this draft but saying that Boca Juniors overshadowed the river plate may not be completely fair. La Manqina was roughly 41 to 47 in which they won the championship 4 times and runners up the other 3. Boca won 2 times and runners up 3 times.

He does look a good fit along with Stieleke here
 
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harms said:
Still think that prath missed the trick by not going with a 4-4-2.
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Yeah completely agree with this. Take Toure out and whack any half-decent striker in there and that’s a much better team.
 
Theon said:
Yeah completely agree with this. Take Toure out and whack any half-decent striker in there and that’s a much better team.
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Pretty much my thoughts.
 
@prath92

Good luck.

I have voted just to see the scoreline, a vote that won't be counted as you know.
 
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My constraints:

WC Winners: Bergomi, Nilton Santos
ECL Winners: Neymar, Figo
Copa America Winners: Nilton Santos, Lazatti
Europe: (1) Seeler (2) Figo (3) Stielike (4) Bergomi (5) Stielike (6) McGrain
SA: (1) Neymar (2) Nilton Santos (3) Lazatti (4) Perfumo (5) Joya
USSR: (1) Rudakov
Brazil: (1) Neymar (2) Nilton Santos
Argentine: (1) Perfumo (2) Lazatti
Germany: (1) Seeler (2) Stielike
90s: Neymar
70s: Figo
60s: Bergomi + Hagi
50s: Stielike + McGrain
40s: Rudakov + Perfumo
30s: Seeler + Joya
20s: Nilton
10s: Lazatti
 
Thanks for your comments.

Preliminary comments about prath92 below

Robson-Voronin great duo for sure

3/4/3 versus 4/4/2: I thought he would have gone for a 4-4-2, which would have been an obvious choice to get the most out of players like Hazard and Bergkamp.That said, he deserves credit for a less-used system in these drafts

Target striker? Bergkamp is a pretty flexible support striker/creative forward. A target striker would have been the welcome but a fast striker too as shown by the Henry-Berkamp partnership. The feeling that Bergkamp likes to move around a player.

Bergkamp I expect him to enjoy a lot of freedom but his passing skills won't be fully used to the benefit of prath92. Within the same tactical system, Totti would have been more at ease.

Hazard He is familiar with this tactical system with Diego Costa/Morata/Giroud/others upfront

Penalty area I like the idea of having at least one player obsessed with making harm in the penalty area and my understanding is that:
- The Lord of Wing Johnstone is asked to spend less time on the wing than usual
- Hazard will have less responsibility than usually in terms of playmaking as I expect Bergkamp to play his natural game
- Like Hazard, Bergkamp is a collective and creative player who likes to deliver assists
 
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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Who is Lazatti?
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ernesto-lazzatti-boca-jrs-lamina-de-el-grafico-D_NQ_NP_409021-MLA20686996521_042016-F.jpg
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“You play against la Maquina with the intention of winning, but as an admirer of football sometimes I’d rather stay in the stands and watch them play.”
Ernesto Lazzatti – Boca Juniors no. 5.

As you can see, he is a stylish player born in 1917 who seems to be considered as one of the greatest defensive midfielders in the second half of 30s in the company of players like Michele Andreolo, Andreas Kupfer, Ludwig Goldbrunner, Ugo Locatelli... He won the Copa America in 37 and multiple trophies with Boca.


With Boca: Lazzatti formed a memorable midfield line with Carlos Sosa and Natalio Pescia in the squad that won the 1943 and 1944 championships
With Argentine: He was part of the squad that won the 1937 Copa América when Argentina beat Brazil by 2-0 in the final at Estadio Gasómetro. Lazzatti was part of the midfield line along with Antonio Sastre and Celestino Martínez.

170px-Sosa_lazzatti_pescia.jpg



In terms of style play, he plays with simplicity

“ He was one of the great centrojás of Argentine football. His distinctive style was fair play, intelligence and quality. A man with no great ball control but who knew how to pass the ball in the right moment. He didn't argue or play hard but he knew how to organise the team, being also an excellent person according to my personal experience and what my fellowmates told about him ”
— Rinaldo Martino

“ I have fond memories of Lazzatti. He knew how to led the team because of his football abilities and ethics. He took over the midfield line, always playing with the head up. Not only his short and long passes were perfect, he was a great header as well. ”
— Claudio Vacca
 
Maxime Bossis

Pros

- left-footed player also good with his right foot
- Versatile in terms of positioning LB, CB
- Good offensive stats with Nantes: 23 goals in

Cons

- I believe he mainly played as a central defender and was better there. He will do the job but I won't expect so much from him in this context
 
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It's late so I will come back tomorrow.

In a nutshell, I don't see the required CF in the opposing team to make his team win.

Up to @prath92 to take the lead in the discussions, IIRC he lives in Asia so he will be back shortly.

+++
 
No issues with Bergkamp’s role. He played that for much of the first half of his career for both Ajax and Holland.

Less sold on the need for Toure here when there is already Nasazzi and Ruggeri holding the fort. Better to ditch him and switch to a 4231 assuming there is another attacker kicking his heels on the bench.
 
Indnyc said:
Is Bergkamp playing as a false 9? I really like Praths team. Toure is a weaknesss but it is well hidden in a 3 man defense

Lazatti is a great pick for this draft but saying that Boca Juniors overshadowed the river plate may not be completely fair. La Manqina was roughly 41 to 47 in which they won the championship 4 times and runners up the other 3. Boca won 2 times and 3 runners up 3 times.

He does look a good fit along with Stieleke here
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I agree
 
Luis Figo

Let's talk about different aspects of the game.

Like players like Beckham and Nedved, Luis Figo is pretty versatile but the Luis Figo I want here is the Ballon d'or 2000: the Barcelona version.

1614541_FC_Barcelona.jpg


barcelona-98-99.jpg
 
I don't think 4-4-2 was the way to go with Jinky and Hazard.
Both work best when they have lots of space to roam around.

I very much like the 3-4-3, especially against Ecstatic's front 4 which looks very dynamic.
What I don't see working too well is Bergkamp there. You'd want to see a more selfless and different kind of a number 9.

I was dead certain Prath was going to go for Spencer or Weah when he went for De Gea. Both would have suited his team much better than Bergkamp.

Went with Ecstatic in the end as it looks a more workable lineup.
Its odd because Prath needs lesser reinforcements than Ecstatic to look a draft winning side.
 
Gio said:
No issues with Bergkamp’s role. He played that for much of the first half of his career for both Ajax and Holland.

Less sold on the need for Toure here when there is already Nasazzi and Ruggeri holding the fort. Better to ditch him and switch to a 4231 assuming there is another attacker kicking his heels on the bench.
Click to expand...

I agree about Touré and Bergkamp. Of course, Bergkamp has the experience of this kind of offensive structure: great stats at AJAX in a similar role.

1334547_Holland.jpg


Netherlands WC 1994 Quarter-Finalist

Now, if the idea is to get the most out of him, my opinion is a more selfish player around him would have been the welcome IMO, any kind of strikers, a partner in crime

- Henry Arsenal
- Stefan Petterson AJAX
- Kluivert Holland
- Ruben Sosa Inter

300px-Salzburg-Internazionale_1994-04-26.svg.png


BERGKAMP IN 1994 - UEFA CUP Final



BERGKAMP IN 1998 -



What is sure is that he is a fantastic player :)
 
Another video about Stielike whose activity, vision and passing skills are impressive:

(1) A kind of deep-lying playmaker much with a high work-rate at club.

* La Liga: Winner: 1978, 1979, 1980
* Copa del Rey: Winner: 1980, 1982
* Copa de la Liga: Winner: 1985
* UEFA Cup: Winner: 1985
* European Cup: Runner-up: 1981
* European Cup Winners' Cup: Runner-up: 1983



(2) A libero for West Germany

YOtCO4u.jpg

World Cup 1982 Finalist

A very complete defensive player as you can.

(3) A great contributor offensively

For example, he was the 2nd best top scorer for Real Madrid in 77/78 as you can see below

https://www.bdfutbol.com/t/t1977-782.html

#Total #Football
 
Would like to hear @prath92 reasoning for going 3-4-3, since it's not so common and especially considering the opponent. Is the general plan to attack Ecstatic and dominate the game or play more cautiously/sit back?

Not so sure about 3 at the back considering Ecstatic attack and dangers from wide areas which will stretch that defence and put a lot of pressure on them. Those 2 in midfield look great, though.
 
Ruggeri and Toure won't be comfortable stepping out onto Neymar and Figo, particularly in that latter duel, so either they'll be given a lot of space or the two wingbacks will have to take care of them. Given Bossis was always a conservative defender that seems the much more likely scenario, which means Voronin has to look after Hagi and Robson is responsible for 2 CM's. When one of McGrain and N.Santos step into midfield it's always going to be too much to manage, and neither Hazard nor Johnstone will do much to prevent that. With Ruggeri and Nasazzi patrolling the box there won't be any easy chances but I don't think they could do anything to stop so many waves of attack against that front 3.

I think ultimately it all comes down to Toure. Bossis would have been at home as that left-sided centre back and allowed room for a real wingback. But even with that, three centre backs against one forward always created some kind of imbalance, and the fact none of those three centre backs are natural playmakers like Scirea, Moore etc. means that imbalance in midfield brings very little benefits elsewhere on the pitch. If another midfielder or forward was brought in to make it a 4231 or a 433 it would've been much harder to call but I see this is a convincing win by @Ecstatic.
 
It's a shame since I really liked prath's team and he was practically one position away from having one of the best teams in the first round.

Just by removing Toure and adding a CF would make it as harms said near perfect 4-4-2 given the constraints.

@Ecstatic 's team is really good tho and has pretty good balance in it hence my vote..
 
Thanks guys for your comments.

I would have liked to have the comments of @prath92 and know more about his build-up and understanding of that game
 
This needs to be left here. Probably in the top 3 football songs I have ever heard about a player.

They talk of men like Pele,
and the great Eusebio,
and even Stanley Matthews,
who played so long ago.
He's even aced the Belfast boy,
wee George was second best.
Not Johann Cruyff, not on your life
Wee jinky beats the rest.
 
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