The Impossible Draft R1 - Charly vs 2mufc0

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

VS

............................................. TEAM CHARLY ......................................................................................... TEAM 2MUFC0 .............................................


TEAM CHARLY

I am Playing 4-2-3-1 formation with focus on wing play and direct attacking. I am not too fussed about the possession and try to move ball quickly with a quick counter attacking threat as well.

Up top is Sandor Kocsis, the greatest header of the ball the game has seen and a very prolific striker. He is partnered with Ballon D'or winner Omar Sivori. This partnership is similar to the famous Kocsis-Puskas partnership. Sivori was an excellent link up player who formed his own great partnership with Charles. Sivori has a free role here, which would allow "The Maradona of 60s" to display his creativity & goal scoring to full extent.

Dzajic is the best winger in the draft. His role is to put on some delicious crosses for Kocsis, just like Czibor and when required cut in and score on his own. Michel is a reliable and hard working presence on the right wing to counter the flair of Dzajic. Michel is a Real Madrid legend representing them for over a decade while also earning 72 international caps for Spain. He is most known for his stellar crossing, which was Beckham like.

Van Hanegem is well known legend from Netherlands and is playing as deep lying playmaker for my team. Van Hanegem was a fantastic passer and had a great engine on him. In his time he was often compared with Cruyff in stature and creativity as they were both talisman for two of the biggest clubs in the league. He is partnered with Nestor Rossi here who is playing in a defensive midfield role. Rossi was a powerful tackler and is often considered the best Argentian defensive midfielder.

Jorginho & Demyanenko are the full backs for my team. Both excellent full backs adept in both defensive and attacking phase. Demyanenko was a great LB, he won Soviet player of the year and was voted the third best Ukrainian player of century behind Blokhin & Shevchanko. He'll be more attacking owing to dzaijic's freedom to cut inside. World cup winning right back Jorginho would be slightly more defensive in his duties. A brilliant RB who was considered one the best full back of his generation and one of the best defender to come from Brzil.

Nesta - Silva was a great partnership in Milan. Nesta is obviously one of the best defender of all time, so not much needed to say about it. There was a time when I and many others thought Silva would one day reach the same heights. That did not quite happen but he was still a damn good defender and there is also the proven partnership. Both are complete modern defenders and complement each other very well.

In GK position I have one of the all time best - Rinat Dasayev. He would round off the defense nicely for me. He also won the Soviet footballer of the year award as well getting selected as the best goalkeeper from IFFHS 1988.



TEAM 2MUFC0


Defence

In goal is Hugo Gatti: Argentine great and one of the pioneers of the sweeper keeper style. The defence is marshalled by the best defender in the pool, Gaetano Scirea: renowned for his orchestrating prowess, flawless reading of the game and ball playing skills, he should be perfectly at home in the setup. To his left is Italian stopper, Riccardo Ferri: a tough tackler as well as presence in the air, he should be a seamless fit considering his understanding with a Scirea-esque defender in Baresi. At right back is Swedish great, Orvar Bergmark: a balanced full back in defense in attack, he was an integral part of the 1958 WC runners up team, was twice elected to the World XI and will primarily deal with Dzajić. On the opposite side is Leovegildo Junior: one of the most complete fullbacks in football history, he adds another dimension of playmaking to go with a stable and consistent defensive game.




Midfield

Obdulio Varela is the best pure defensive midfielder in the draft in the absence of Rijkaard and Desailly. Here he will provide solid screening in front of the defence - allowing the more creative players to get forward while also bringing immense leadership nous to the fold considering his stature as one of the greatest captains of all time. Alongside him is Juan Sebastian Veron: fantastic on the ball and under pressure, he can be an outlet for Zizinho and Varela.



Brazilian maestro Zizinho will be the flair player in midfield: creating chances for the attackers with precise passes and bamboozling dribbles - as well as getting into scoring positions playing off the lead striker.

Attack

Gunnar Nordahl is the clinical battering ram spearheading the attack - pouncing in the box - ready to score, and using his hold up play able to link up effectively with the other attackers.

The Snakeman, Rob Rensenbrink will be on the leftside of the attack: a two time Onze de Bronze winner, he was an intelligent left footer with a fantastic touch - tall enough to be used as a traditional centre forward yet possessed a great dribbling technique that meant he could also play out wide, where he was more than capable of leaving 2 or 3 defenders bamboozled in his wake.



Completing the XI is another Dutchman - and someone who epitomized the ethos of totaalvoetbal, Ruud Gullit: who has the freedom to roam around the right side of the midfield, and using his physical presence and intelligence and dribbling ability to link up with Nordahl and Zizinho.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Charly @2mufc0 All the best!

 

[harms]

A shame that you had to replace Conti. Fantastic (and quite similar) teams, both of them. @Charly's right wing is a bit underwhelming, considering other players on the pitch, but then he has Dasayev in goal, which in a real life can decide the game in his favour.

 

[idmanager]

Demyanenko+Dzajic+Sivori is one hell of a left side attack. Bergmark holds the key for 2mufc0's team. That forward arrow on him I am not sure of. I think he was a defensive player. I might be wrong as I don't know much about him.

Its a tough one to choose and I was slightly tilting towards Charly until I saw Michel. Personally don't rate him too high in an all time context.

 

[Physiocrat]

Demyanenko+Dzajic+Sivori is one hell of a left side. Bergmark holds the key for 2mufc0's team. That forward arrow on him I am not sure of. I think he was a defensive player. I might be wrong as I don't know much about him.

That was my thought. Annah played him as a defensive RCB in his Sweden homage.

 

[Theon]

Wow, didn’t realise how good @2mufc0 ’s team was looking when it was drafted.

 

[Enigma_87]

Really splitting hairs here. Demyanenko and Dzajic is a great flank, but Rensenbrink can also do damage against Jorginho.

Rest of the zones is advantage here and there. Dasayev might just about tilt it considering his presence at the back.

 

[Charly]

A shame that you had to replace Conti. Fantastic (and quite similar) teams, both of them. @Charly's right wing is a bit underwhelming, considering other players on the pitch, but then he has Dasayev in goal, which in a real life can decide the game in his favour.

Agreed that Conti would have been nice and Michel might look underwhelming in the company but given the presence of Kocsis at striker Michel is actually very good since he was an amazing crosser which would work very well for me. Michel's crossing was considered a big reason behind Hugo Sanchez's goalscoring feats. I don't know much about Ferri so I'll research more about him but it would be interesting to see if 2mufc0's defense would be able to hold up in air against Kocsis with service from Dzajic and Michel.

On Michel again he also seem to have a good knack for scoring important goals, I was looking in Real's run in the 1987-88 European cup and Michel scored last goal against Bayern to knock them out then 2 against Porto to knock them out in qf. They were outed by PSV in semi on away goal rule. Anyway while not the biggest name I feel he is exactly the kind of hard working underrated player which helps in making bigger stars around him shine -

Obligatory highlights video -

 

[2mufc0]

Credit @Annahnomoss

Orvar Bergmark
Position: Defender(RCB, CB, RB)
Height: 1.80m
Weight: 75 kg
Achievements:
World Cup Silver - 1958
All star team - 1958 - Best RB of the tournament
World XI - 1960, 1961 - Best RB in the world


Career Statistics
Team--------Matches-------
Club------------293-----------
Sweden--------94------------

Peak Statistics - 1958-61
Team--------Matches-------
Club------------293-----------
Sweden--------94----
--------

The highest rated right back in the 1958 Ballon d'Or and the second best right back of the tournament behind Djalma Santos according to “Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1958”. Through his career he was often considered the best right back in the world and without a doubt one of the best of his era.



----------------------------------------1960

-----------------------------------------1961

Style of play
With his great reading of the game he knew exactly when to push forward aggressively to win the ball back for the team before the forward got to touch it unchallenged. Simple, but he excelled at exactly that with a remarkable mix of strength, pace, acceleration and ability to recover back to his position after a tackle.

Orvars defensive game was described as modern as he loved to support the winger, he had a pace and stamina which allowed him to act over large areas. His positioning meant he was always in the right place and he had a way of contorting himself to make perfect tackles and it earned him a world reknowned ability of getting a toe on the most balls even when he ran behind them.

Against Soviet in '58 he put on a masterclass, with the Swedish defense, and won the ball back before they could establish an attack almost every time. It is fascinating that a relatively simple player was rated so highly and it is proof of how efficient and solid he was.

Information
ORVAR BERGMARK - MISTER ÖREBRO SK

Orvar Bergmark is Örebros all time most merited athlete with his mindblowing achievments. In 1957 he won bronze in the World Cup in Bandy, a year later he won silver in the World Cup in football and was considered as arguably the best right back many years between 1958 to 1961. Part of the team of the tournament in 1958 as the best right back of the tournament and part of the World XI in 1960 and 1961.

He earned himself 143 caps for Sweden in football, 94 as a player and 49 as the manager between 65-70. While at the same time he made 20 appearances for the national team in Bandy between 49-62.

For Örebro he played 290 football matches and 147 in Bandy where he became the Swedish Champion three times and won the Stor Grabb award in both football and bandy.

A young Orvar Bergmark.

Orvar came to Örebro from Byske in Västerbotten a rainy day in the fall of 1947. The reason he moved there of all places was that he had relatives of his mother, Signe, in the city.

-In 1946 I was 16 years old and my dad who was a baker in Byske died. My mother, I and my sisters had a hard time finding a life there. The town just had 1.500 inhabitants and just 4 bakeries. That's why we searched for a place where we could start over and by fall a year later they moved to Örebro.

It was sunday and I still remember that Örebro had played Surahammer that day and won with 2-0. To this day I can still see the headlines of the Monday newspapers in front of me.

We moved in to an apartment on Sveavägen, a short walk from the Örebro stadium, Eyravallen. I joined the bandy side thanks to my cousin Olle Sääw who made sure I could join the team and by the end of the winter I was told if I could play bandy I could play football.
He joined their junior side and was instantly one of their best goalscorers with 26 goals in 16 matches in 1948. The year after Örebro were doing poorly and needed a change and they looked to the youth to add some energy to the team.

Orvar was supposed to make the debut against Gunnar Gren's Göteborg but a last minute injury meant he had to dely it until the game against Helsingborg.

Orvar Bergmark 1958, after he received guldbollen.¨

Orvar couldn't save them from relegation and it took until 1950 until they'd return to the top league. At the start of the season he was played as a striker, but the team was doing poorly and changed the coach. Per Kaufeldt came in and he had a lot of fresh ideas, like moving Orvar to the defensive line. The entire team were performing better and could avoid relegation. But Orvar was still so impressive that Putte Kock, the national team leader, called him up and had him make his debut against Spain.

-I started on the bench but they allowed subs in case someone got injured and in half time I was called down. I had to replace the Helsingborg defender Malmström who had pain in his back and couldn't continue. The debut went alright, especially because I had Gösta Lindh in front of me who was a father figure for me at ÖSK. We complemented each other well and he's the best partner I've ever had down the right.

Orvar established himself as a quality player and remained in the national side. He also stayed at Örebro until they got relegated once more and he had to change team if he wanted to keep his spot for Sweden.

Orvar Bergmark for AIK 1955.

It didn't take long before he returned to his home club Örebro as he never felt that AIK could provide him with what he had there. There he could come and go as he wanted to train during the day and the brotherhood was a lot stronger.

Orvar as a bandy player.

1958, World Cup
-The best game we played was against Soviet. We had lost to them big the last two games we played before the World Cup. They had a winger called Tatusjin who knew it all and it was the most difficult winger to face for me.

After the semi final win we were celebrated as champions already and the train stayed at every stop with the people celebrating us. It is possible that we felt like we had done more than enough already after that.

Orvar Bergmark with his wife and child on their way to Roma.



Footage

Spoiler

(Highlight vs West Germany)
(Sweden vs USSR highlight '58)
(Sweden vs Hungary highlight '58)

 

[2mufc0]

Thiago Silva doesn't belong here, Nordahl will be all over him. My wingers will do a load of damage against those full backs.

 

[2mufc0]

Gullit vs Jorginho is another mismatch here

Serie A: 1987/88, 1991/92, 1992/93
UEFA European Championship: 1988
European Cup: 1988/89, 1989/90
UEFA Super Cup: 1990
Intercontinental Cup: 1990
Eredivisie: 1983/84, 1985/86, 1986/87
KNVB Cup: 1983/84
Eerste Divisie: 1980/81
Coppa Italia: 1993/94
Supercoppa Italiana: 1992, 1994

Ballon d'Or: 1987; Runner-up 1988
IFFHS Player of the Century: 18
UEFA Golden Jubilee Poll: #13
World Soccer Magazine World Footballer of the Year: 1987, 1989
European Footballer of the Season: 1987–88
Onze de Onze: 1987, 1988, 1989
Onze d'Argent: 1988, 1989
UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 1988, 1992
FIFA XI: 1991
FIFA 100
Golden Foot: 2011 Football Legend
A.C. Milan Hall of Fame
The Best of The Best – Player of the Century: Top 50
World Soccer: The 100 Greatest Footballers of All Time
Dutch Footballer of the Year: 1984, 1986
Dutch Golden Shoe: 1986
Dutch Sportsman of the Year: 1987
Italian Football Hall of Fame: 2017

A complete and versatile player, Gullit epitomized the ethos of totaalvoetbal as he was naturally adept in several positions, and was capable of aiding his team defensively as well as offensively due to his work-rate, ball-winning abilities, and tactical intelligence in addition to his skill and physical qualities.
Gullit started off as a street footballer in Amsterdam but before long he found a club and by the time he was 16 he had made his debut for HFC Haarlem in the Dutch first division. Subsequently, Gullit moved to Dutch club Feyenoord and following his evolution into an attacking midfielder, who could also play as forward, he moved to PSV Eindhoven. He became one of the world’s best attacking players during his time at PSV Eindhoven but his best years as a footballer were reserved for Italian club AC Milan.

He was the big summer transfer market hit in 1987, along with the other Dutch Marco Van Basten. Ruud Gullit soon became the symbol of the first triumphs achieved by Arrigo Sacchi. Unpredictable, physically powerful, deadly in the air, he started as a sweeper and then moved forward becoming one of the finest attackers in the world. The Golden Ball was the first of a series of honours won with Milan, including three league titles, two European Champion Clubs’ Cups, two Intercontinental Cups, two European Super Cups and three Italian League Super Cups. A year after joining AC Milan, Gullit led the Dutch national team to the European Championships crown. He scored the first goal in the 2-0 win in the final against the Soviet Union.[/QUOTE]

 

[2mufc0]

GAETANO SCIREA

Serie A (7): 1974/75, 1976/77, 1977/78, 1980/81, 1981/82, 1983/84, 1985/86
UEFA Cup (1): 1976/77
Coppa Italy (2): 1978/79, 1982/83
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1983/84
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1984
European Cup (1): 1984/85
Intercontinental Cup (1) : 1985
World Cup (1): 1982
World Cup (Fourth place): 1978
Ideal World Cup Team: 1982
UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 1980
Italian Football Hall of Fame

Gaetano Scirea is one of the best defenders the world has ever seen, and the best defender of the World in the 1st half of the 1980s. Though paradoxically, he is also one of the most underrated footballers of all-time. An impeccable defender first and foremost, he also boasted great vision and ball controlling skills and tactical ability, played the sweeper, or libero, role for most of his career, and contributed to the development of this position initiated by Franz Beckenbauer in the 1970s. Considered a legend of Italian football, he played most of his career with Juventus, club with which he conquered 7 times the Serie A, 2 times the Coppa Italia, 1 UEFA Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup, 1 European Cup and 1 Cup Intercontinental. Endowed with extraordinary defensive qualities and a large number of tactical and technical resources, he also possessed a formidable reading of the game and a great handling of the times for the mark and the interception of balls. With Italy he was protagonist of the World Cups of 1978 and 1982, in this last tournament winning the title and being selected in the ideal team of the competition. In the latter parts of his career, Scirea played a more defensive central-defender role, which he excelled at just the same. Also renowned for his disciplinary acumen, he was never sent-off or suspended in his career.

The epitome of decency, chivalry, courage, skill, talent and even personality, Gaetano Scirea has been long forgotten in the footballing world. A silent guardian, Scirea single-handedly constructed the back four of the World Cup winning Italian side in 1982. He also played crucial and vital roles for his club side Juventus. Operating as a Sweeper, who plays behind the Center Back, Scirea kept Franco Baresi, out of the National Team. In his 16 year career, Scirea has won almost every trophy there is to win, including a World Cup. Scirea is one of only five players in European football history to have won all international trophies for football clubs recognized by UEFA and FIFA. Scirea is also one of only nine players in the history of the European football to win all three major UEFA football competitions. It can be said the Gaetano Scirea wrote poetry in football .

http://www.thehardtackle.com/2014/gaetano-scirea-a-forgotten-legend/

 

[Charly]

Gullit vs Jorginho is another mismatch here

Jorginho is on other wing and anyway was an amazing defender. He's widely considered one of the best fullbacks of his generation. A world cup winner who also played for big clubs in Germany I don't see how you think he is inferior to Bergmark who is facing Dzajic.

 

[Charly]

Nesta and Silva was a great partnership for the last good team of Milan. By himself Silva might be considered weak but with the defensive beast that Nesta is I don't see how you might believe that my defense is weaker than yours.

 

[2mufc0]

Jorginho is on other wing and anyway was an amazing defender. He's widely considered one of the best fullbacks of his generation. A world cup winner who also played for big clubs in Germany I don't see how you think he is inferior to Bergmark who is facing Dzajic.

Yeah you're right mate got my sides mixed up. But I would still fancy Gullit's chances against Demyanenko.

 

[harms]

ullit vs Jorginho is another mismatch here

He is facing Demyanenko?

 

[2mufc0]

Nesta and Silva was a great partnership for the last good team of Milan. By himself Silva might be considered weak but with the defensive beast that Nesta is I don't see how you might believe that my defense is weaker than yours.

I think his reputation took a massive hit at PSG, I agree he started his career well, but never materialised into the defender he had the potential to become .

He's known to have a weak mentality and not being able to handle the big games. There's no way Ferri or Scirea would get dropped for important games like Silva did against Real this year. Also losing his Brazil captaincy.

I think he's vastly over rated and hasn't really achieved anything of note in his career. And I'm not saying this because I'm facing him in this draft, you can look over my post history I've always held this view.

 

[Tuppet]

Yeah you're right mate got my sides mixed up. But I would still fancy Gullit's chances against Demyanenko.

Think same can be said about Dzajic vs Bergmark no ?

 

[Enigma_87]

I think his reputation took a massive hit at PSG, I agree he started his career well, but never materialised into the defender he had the potential to become .

He's known to have a weak mentality and not being able to handle the big games. There's no way Ferri or Scirea would get dropped for important games like Silva did against Real this year. Also losing his Brazil captaincy.

I think he's vastly over rated and hasn't really achieved anything of note in his career. And I'm not saying this because I'm facing him in this draft, you can look over my post history I've always held this view.

I share the same view for Silva, but he has a point on being partnered with Nesta there. Both looked pretty good in Milan's title run in 10/11.

 

[Charly]

I think his reputation took a massive hit at PSG, I agree he started his career well, but never materialised into the defender he had the potential to become .

He's known to have a weak mentality and not being able to handle the big games. There's no way Ferri or Scirea would get dropped for important games like Silva did against Real this year. Also losing his Brazil captaincy.

I think he's vastly over rated and hasn't really achieved anything of note in his career. And I'm not saying this because I'm facing him in this draft, you can look over my post history I've always held this view.

I am not seeing anything from Ferri's profile which suggest he was better than Thiago Silva tbh. Correct me if I am wrong but these drafts take in peak performance and for around 3 years Thiago Silva was the best defender in the world. His sheer athleticism matches well with Nordhal.

 

[2mufc0]

Think same can be said about Dzajic vs Bergmark no ?

Yeah because Dzajic is the best winger in this draft, he will be trouble, but Bergmark was no mug. But I think I have the advantage in midfield and on the other wing Rensenbrink is more of a threat than Michel.

Then you have Scirea and Varela who are a lot better than Silva and Rossi. Though he does have the advantage with the GK.

 

[2mufc0]

I am not seeing anything from Ferri's profile which suggest he was better than Thiago Silva tbh. Correct me if I am wrong but these drafts take in peak performance and for around 3 years Thiago Silva was the best defender in the world. His sheer athleticism matches well with Nordhal.

Silva is your sweeper so he's more comparable with Scirea in my team in terms of role.

Of course Nesta is better than Ferri. I just don't rate Thiago Silva, it's really weird on here he gets selected a lot in drafts while in comparison someone like Ramos hardly gets any recognition.

 

[Physiocrat]

Silva is your sweeper so he's more comparable with Scirea in my team in terms of role.

Of course Nesta is better than Ferri. I just don't rate Thiago Silva, it's really weird on here he gets selected a lot in drafts while in comparison someone like Ramos hardly gets any recognition.

Why don't you rate Silva? He's clearly the best sweeper-esque CB since Rio and up there with Godin as the best CB since Rio too.

 

[Charly]

Yeah because Dzajic is the best winger in this draft, he will be trouble, but Bergmark was no mug. But I think I have the advantage in midfield and on the other wing Rensenbrink is more of a threat than Michel.

Then you have Scirea and Varela who are a lot better than Silva and Rossi. Though he does have the advantage with the GK.

In isolation Resnebrink is better than Michel but when you consider tactic I am using to employ his crossing to be utilized by Kocsis, I believe he is as effective if not more against your team. I think he along with Dzajic is the best crosser on the pitch, better than both Gullit and Resnebrink who were more second strikers than pure wingers. Given that we are both using two target man style of strikers I believe my setup gets the better of Kocsis than yours with Nordhal.

 

[MJJ]

Why don't you rate Silva? He's clearly the best sweeper-esque CB since Rio and up there with Godin as the best CB since Rio too.

Going to PSG damaged his reputation a lot, cant really rate somebody who wasnt challenged at the highest level.

 

[Charly]

Silva is your sweeper so he's more comparable with Scirea in my team in terms of role.

Of course Nesta is better than Ferri. I just don't rate Thiago Silva, it's really weird on here he gets selected a lot in drafts while in comparison someone like Ramos hardly gets any recognition.

No Silva is not my sweeper, I have no sweeper, both of my defenders are good on ball and complete modern defenders. I compared Nesta & Scirea because they are both known entities and are comparable in defensive sense. But can you tell me why Ferri is better than Silva ?

Edit: Its also clear why Ramos doesn't get selected because he is a clear liability that no one wants to have in his team despite of the positives he have. No such issue with Silva.

 

[2mufc0]

No Silva is not my sweeper, I have no sweeper, both of my defenders are good on ball and complete modern defenders. I compared Nesta & Scirea because they are both known entities and are comparable in defensive sense. But can you tell me why Ferri is better than Silva ?

Edit: Its also clear why Ramos doesn't get selected because he is a clear liability that no one wants to have in his team despite of the positives he have. No such issue with Silva.

That's funny because Silva has his fair share of errors, I've never seen him put in a performance like Ramos did in the CL. I can't even think of many standout performance by him ether.

Ferri has a stellar reputation, granted he's not Scirea or Nesta, but he's complimentary with Scirea, similar to how he worked with Baresi for Italy 88-90 (one of the best defensive teams of all time).

 

[2mufc0]

Why don't you rate Silva? He's clearly the best sweeper-esque CB since Rio and up there with Godin as the best CB since Rio too.

Few posts up I've explained why, he's clearly not on the level of Rio or Godin.

 

[Physiocrat]

Edit: Its also clear why Ramos doesn't get selected because he is a clear liability that no one wants to have in his team despite of the positives he have. No such issue with Silva.

Ramos, the Stevie Me of defenders.

 

[Charly]

Willem Van Hanegem, most complete midfielder on the pitch -

 

[2mufc0]

I think Ramos has improved has career has gone on, you guys talk like he makes calamitous mistakes every game, but if that was true Madrid would never have won the toughest knockout competition 3 years on the bounce.

 

[Physiocrat]

Few posts up I've explained why, he's clearly not on the level of Rio or Godin.

Have you any examples of his weak mentality? Also, he has three seasons at Milan to judge him on. He was in the team of the season two years in a row in Serie A and three years for UEFA. Obviously you need to take these kind of awards with a pinch of salt but he was doing at Milan at the time.

 

[2mufc0]

Have you any examples of his weak mentality? Also, he has three seasons at Milan to judge him on. He was in the team of the season two years in a row in Serie A and three years for UEFA. Obviously you need to take these kind of awards with a pinch of salt but he was doing at Milan at the time.

See above regarding weak mentality just speak to any psg or Brazil fan, he's not a big game player. Has no pedigree in the CL and hardly any memorable performances.

And sorry to keep bringing Ramos into this but he's been in the UEFA team 7 times, 4 times la liga best defender and CL team of the season 4 times, EC and WC team dream team (08, 10) yet doesn't get the same credit as Silva who hasn't achieved anything close to him.

 

[2mufc0]

ZIZINHO

Individual Accomplishments:

Brazil Player of the 20th Century: 4th, behind Zico
South American Player of the 20th Century: 10th, behind Elías Figueroa
Copa América All Time Top Scorer: 17 goals in 28 matches
Campeonato Carioca Top Scorer: 1950
100 World Cup Heroes: 39
IFFHS Brazil Team of the 20th Century
FIFA World Cup Golden Ball: 1950
FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 1950
Brazil Football Hall of Fame

Team Accomplishments:

FIFA World Cup Runner-up: 1950
Copa América Champion: 1949
Copa América Runner-up: 1945, 1946, 1953, 1957
Campeonato Pan-Americano: 1952
Campeonato Paulista: 1957
Rocca Cup: 1945
Copa Rio Branco: 1950
Taça do Atlântico: 1946
Taça Oswaldo Cruz: 1955, 1957
Torneio do Rio de Janeiro: 1945, 1957
Torneio do Porto Alegre: 1957

Profile:

A transcendent legend of the game, Zizinho is considered by most to be the best Brazil player before the advent of Pelé, who named him as his main inspiration (a sentiment echoed by Didi and Gérson) and the best player that he has ever seen. A complete attacker, he was at his best as a central aligning inside-right, though his playing style were more of an attacking midfielder than the striker. He was capable of playing anywhere from central midfield to the right flank and a center forward position - dictating the play, dribbling with venom, and scoring at a proficient rate (his career GPG ratio is around 1 in 2). Mestre (Master) Ziza's (as he was affectionately called) finest hour came in 1950 - at the World Cup that was hosted by Brazil. He shone brighter than any other star in the tournament, producing a legendary performance against Yugoslavia (considered by many Brazilians as the best ever performance in the Seleção shirt) and winning the Golden Ball (best player of the World Cup) award. Sadly, Ghiggia’s goal for Uruguay in the final meant that any achievements from this mundial was overshadowed by the loss. And Zizinho, instead of becoming a nation’s hero for winning them the first World Cup, and securing the place in the highest pantheon, became one of the more underrated gems. Nevertheless, when IFFHS conducted a poll on the greatest player of the century, he was voted as the 4th best Brazilian footballer and the 10th best South American player of the 20th century.

Credit: @harms, @Annahnomoss

Zizinho was the complete article. Played as well in the midfield as he did in the attack. He was offensive, and new how to mark. He wasn’t afraid to get ugly either [reference to the often physical and intimidating nature of games at the time].
- Pelé

The football of Zizinho reminds me of Da Vinci painting something rare.
Giordano Fatori, while covering the 1950 WC for the Gazetta dello Sport

 

[Charly]

See above regarding weak mentality just speak to any psg or Brazil fan, he's not a big game player. Has no pedigree in the CL and hardly any memorable performances.

And sorry to keep bringing Ramos into this but he's been in the UEFA team 7 times, 4 times la liga best defender and CL team of the season 4 times, EC and WC team dream team (08, 10) yet doesn't get the same credit as Silva who hasn't achieved anything close to him.

I am actually baffled by this, Ramos is not on the pitch and I don't know why he is being compared to Silva, for that matter if you are going to name Ramos's awards then he is far better than Ferri as well, so you should also wonder why Ferri is getting picked when Ramos was not. Anyway the comparison is between Ferri & Silva and again I am not hearing any arguments on why he is better than Thiago Silva. Silva was named in Serie A team of the year 3 times, UEFA team of the year 3 times and in world cup all star team as well. He has a solid peak as a defender and is partnered with someone who played with him consistently and formed a very good partnership in real life. He is also backed by a better goalkeeper. There is no way that my team's defense is weaker than yours.

Despite personnel I would say that my tactics are the important part here. I have a consistent tactic of using the greatest header of the ball with two best crosser of the ball (3 if you count Jorginho who was a great crosser as well). For creativity and on deck play he is partnered with Sivori. Both of them have formed successful partnerships with players very much like each other, Sivori with Charles and Kocsis with Puskas.

 

[Charly]

A (translated) profile on Nestor Rossi by El Grafico - http://www.elgrafico.com.ar/2015/03/05/C-8004-perfil-de-pipo-rossi-el-patron-de-america.php

"Old man, come now for the Racing field. You're going to see a phenomenon that is going to play centrojás. " The father, on the other side of the phone, did not need more clues. He knew the insight of his son, who was going to debut that same afternoon against the Academy. That phenomenon, that entered at the last moment by the injury of Manuel Giúdice, was Néstor Raul Rossi. River won 2-0 for the tenth day of the 1945 Championship, and Pipo began to forge his legend, rich in football and colorful occurrences.

Born in Parque Patricios in 1925, he started in Acassuso, passed through Platense and at age 16 arrived at River after a transaction worthy of a story by Roberto Fontanarrosa. When he decided to abandon the squid's inferiors, Boca was almost assured of hiring him, but in the middle Carlos Peucelle appeared, in charge of the millionaire youths, and took him for a couple of days to his fifth of Adrogué. The "kidnapping" ended a few hours before the closing of the passbook, when Rossi, with age of Fifth Division, was enrolled in River, who paid for his pass 5000 pesos.

"Strength, temperament, management, ability, presence, transmission, influence. Everything had Pipo. It is permanent. What has no discussion. The sum of all the attributes. Of all the nuances. And an incorruptible fidelity to the ball well played. And an insult to the guy who hits him up, who takes it long and far, who does not roll it against the floor. " This was defined by El Gráfico in 1965, in a note entitled Now called No. 5, before they called him Pipo. Rossi had all that and more, because he was a giant in a time of giants, a centrojás or central midfielder of the old school with his panoramic vision was ahead of the play and took advantage of his good punch.

Architect of the game of his team, brain of the offensive creation and defensive support, he was also, with his indomitable character and his unmistakable voice, an essential leader during the golden years of Argentine soccer. In his first stage Riverplatense was protagonist of the last throes of The Machine and one of the great ideologists of the equipment that happened it, the one of Alfredo Di Stéfano, Enrique Omar Sívori and Eliseo Prado that was nicknamed the Maquinita. In addition, he accumulated two titles: the First Division Championship of 1945 and the one of 1947.




As a coach directing Racing and facing the River de Labruna and Amadeo Carrizo at the Monumental stadium. He had been a companion of both.

In 1947 he made his debut in the Argentina National Team, in the South American Championship played in Guayaquil. The national team was composed, among others, by José Manuel Moreno, René Pontoni, Norberto Tucho Méndez and Félix Loustau. And he was undefeated champion with an average of four goals per game. Rossi traveled to Ecuador as substitute for Angel Perucca, but ended up playing as a starter.

In 1948, in Argentine soccer a conflict that had been brewing since the Infamous Decade broke out, when a pronouncement by the players had managed to legalize professionalism. In order to redistribute the income of the clubs more equitably and for the Ministry of Labor to recognize the trade union status of Associated Argentine Soccer Players, the most representative figures of each team signed a petition requesting a strike. Rossi was one of the drivers of the measure and the last five dates of the 1948 Championship clubs had to face them with juveniles. That was the first general strike that a union made to the Peronist government and the latter, little open to counterpoints, decided to respond harshly when the development of the 1949 contest was delaying. In May of that year, Juan Domingo Perón signed a decree that set the salary cap for footballers at 1,500 pesos. That was the coup de grace for the negotiations and the starting signal for the exodus, the name that was given to the massive flight of talents. Paradoxically, the same Peronism that raised as one of its political flags the promotion of sports activity generated the worst bloodletting in the history of Argentine football and opened a grim stage of international isolation.

Colombia was the destination chosen by most of the exiled players. There they offered them a luxury stay, a succulent payment in dollars and the evasion of all the administrative procedures that the AFA would try to put before them. The Colombian championship was considered a pirate league, because it was not affiliated with FIFA and did not pay for the passes of the players it received.

However, Colombia had become El Dorado. In 1949, more than half of the foreigners who had arrived were Argentines. One of them was Rossi, who arrived at Millonarios from the hand of Adolfo Pedernera and along with Julio Cozzi, Antonio Báez, Alfredo Di Stéfano and Hugo Reyes. The Bogota team won the national title of that season and repeated the feat in 1951, 1952 and 1953, year in which they also won the local Cup and the "Small Club World Cup", a contest organized by a group of businessmen Venezuelans that was accessed by invitation. By then, Millonarios had already transcended as the Blue Ballet and their figures were recognized worldwide and convened to play European tours.




Pipo gives his boots to some boys during the South American of Lima that Argentina won with the remembered team of the Carasucias.

It was during those years that Pipo molded his character and became definitely a leader, a screamer with a well-earned nickname. However, once he had no other chance to shut up. It was in a game against América de Cali, in which the referee whistled a non-existent penalty. "What are you missing ?! If he did not even touch it! ", Pipo went to smoke, demonstrating the custom he had of running over with his chest. The judge, visibly nervous, took a distance and took a Sevillian out of the stocking. "It was criminal," he told Rossi, who could not believe what was happening. "It was criminal," the Argentine repeated and returned, in silence, to the central circle. That kind of stories could also be found in that Colombian soccer surrounded by myths and clandestine bets,


In 1955 Rossi returned to Argentina. The AFA, which had suspended soccer players from the exodus, lifted the ban after Colombia joined FIFA and agreed to return all players to their clubs of origin.

His return to River was at an unbeatable moment. The team that had as figures Santiago Vernazza, Federico Vairo and Enrique Omar Sívori achieved the tricampeonato between 1955 and 1957. It was during those years that the Millionaire was consecrated as a hotbed of talent training and it was precisely with the money obtained from the sale of Sívori to the Juventus that could finish the fourth tribune of the Monumental one, that until then, by its form, was known like the Herradura.




In Millionaires of Colombia, the mythical team that integrated with Di Stéfano, Pedernera, Cozzi and Báez, after the strike and the exodus of 1948.

Sívori was, also, one of the best friends that Rossi found in his time in football, although he did not save himself from Pipo's usual reproaches. In a game against Brazil, in which Cabezón lost the mark, the midfielder shouted: "Run it to black!". Sívori, confused, answered: "Which one? They are all black. " The auction was enlightening: "Then run them all, boludo".


In the South American of Lima of 1957, the Selection left one of the best memories of its history. Guillermo Stabile put together a balanced team, with an experienced defense composed by Pedro Dellacha and Federico Vairo and a young and explosive front that came out of memory: Corbatta, Maschio, Angelillo, Sívori and Cruz. Rogelio Dominguez, Racing's figure, was catching on, and the team's handle was on Pipo, who was also the captain. Argentina thrashed Colombia, Ecuador, Uruguay and Chile and was ensured with a 3-0 to Brazil. The offensive quintet was immortalized as Los Carasucias, and El Gritón became the Grito de América.

The following year, the National Team qualified for the World Cup, but the team came decimated. Sívori, Maschio and Angelillo had been sold to Italy and as at that time only players were called to act in the country, Stabile put together an old age squad that moved away from the Lima style and found no answers in a world that was unknown. They barely beat Northern Ireland, and lost 3-1 to Germany and 6-1 to Czechoslovakia. That disaster in Sweden marked a before and after in Argentina.

"We went to the World Cup with a blindfold, thinking that we were the best. We did not know anything about European football and we were not prepared to play three games in a week. On top of that, I went with lumbago and played with a copper wire around the waist. They infiltrated me every day because I could not stop the pain, "Pipo recalled some time later. Also, despite the bad drink, he brought one of his anecdotes: "In the first game the Germans were passing us over and my impotence was such that I started yelling at the defenders to hit them, to throw them to the floor, on the floor at least I was going to be able to see their faces. "

Sweden marked the farewell of the Pipo Team, which that year also left River and went to Hurricane. With lumbago on his back, he played two more seasons and retired in 1961, when he was also the coach of the team.




With Sanfilippo in the dressing room of Sweden, in 1958, after the victory against Northern Ireland, one of the few fun moments of that World Cup.

As a coach, his career was less fruitful but he led, among others, River, Racing, Ferro, Spanish Elche and Boca. Interestingly, with the Xeneize he won his only coaching title in the 1965 Championship. He did it in replacement of Adolfo Pedernera, who was recovering from a serious car accident, and seconded by Aristobulo Deambrossi, another glory of the River Plate kidney. He also led the Argentine National Team for a brief period.


Off the court his life was not so cheerful. In 1957, in the antechamber of a Superclásico, his brother Omar Guillermo, who also played in River, died of a lymphoma. He had four children, two of whom died prematurely. All that was undermining the memory of Pipo, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in 1991, a disease that accompanied him until his death on June 13, 2007, at age 82.

A must in a time of gold and a missing link between brilliant generations, Rossi contributed, with his talent, to the great history of Argentine football. Permanent power of captive anecdotes, with a relentless speed for the accurate and witty response, played like few others and understood the game like no other. Pipo, the Narigón, the Grito, the Patón. Countless are the nicknames that plagued him during his career that for a long time was, indisputably, the Pattern of America.

 

[2mufc0]

I am actually baffled by this, Ramos is not on the pitch and I don't know why he is being compared to Silva, for that matter if you are going to name Ramos's awards then he is far better than Ferri as well, so you should also wonder why Ferri is getting picked when Ramos was not. Anyway the comparison is between Ferri & Silva and again I am not hearing any arguments on why he is better than Thiago Silva. Silva was named in Serie A team of the year 3 times, UEFA team of the year 3 times and in world cup all star team as well. He has a solid peak as a defender and is partnered with someone who played with him consistently and formed a very good partnership in real life. He is also backed by a better goalkeeper. There is no way that my team's defense is weaker than yours.

Was responding to the posters point about number of awards mate, i never brought the point up, i personally don't feel it's the best way to judge a player, just pointing out the double standards.

 

[Charly]

Omar Sivori - Maradona of 60s

Omar Sivori, who has died aged 69, was one of the finest inside-lefts with one of the finest left feet since the war, an Argentinian player of flair and finishing power who never played for his country in a World Cup, but played for Italy instead. A little man who always played with his stockings round his ankles, he gave as good as he got. He later managed Argentina's team, qualifying them for a World Cup, before returning to Italy to work as a journalist and pungent television commentator.

Born in a suburb of Buenos Aires, he made his name, internationally, in the 1957 South American championships in Lima. Still only 21, he was one of the so-called Trio of Death with Humberto Maschio at inside-right and Valentin Angelillo at centre-forward. Rich Italian clubs promptly snapped up all three of them. Sivori went to Juventus of Turin, Maschio to Atalanta, Angelillo to Inter Milan.

In recent times, this would have been no bar, quite the reverse, against their continuing to play for Argentina. But then Argentina's establishment regarded the three, in footballing terms, as un-persons. In the 1958 World Cup, Argentina played without them and were humiliated.

Sivori moved to Juventus from River Plate, the Buenos Aires club, in 1957 for what was then a world record fee of £91,000. At the same time, John Charles, the Leeds United centre-forward and Welsh international, also joined the Turin club, for £65,000. Now Sivori found himself in a new inside-forward trio. Its third member was Giampiero Boniperti, who had made his name with Juventus as a centre-forward, had also played for Italy at outside-right, but now settled in as an inside-right. That year, 1957-58, Juventus won the Italian championship, their first for six years, with an eight-point margin over Florentina. Sivori figured in 32 of the 34 games.

He scored no fewer than 22 goals, dovetailed splendidly with the huge John Charles, and enraptured the Juve supporters with his so-called "tunnel", his ability to push the ball between an opponent's legs. Cocky, ebullient, sometimes provocative - when he appeared to be ruffling a fallen opponent's hair, he was sometimes pulling it - he was in character and physique a total contrast with the placid John Charles, but they complemented one another.

Thanks to their combination, two more championships followed, in 1960 and 1961. In these, too, Sivori's goal scoring was phenomenal. In the season 1959-60, his striking rate was 27 goals in 31 games, making him the leading Italian championship scorer. The following season saw him just as prolific, with a striking rate of almost a goal per game; 26 in 27 matches.

It was in April 1961 that the Italians, exploiting his Italian descent, as they would with Maschio and Angelillo, capped him for the first time; he scored the winning goal in a narrow 3-2 victory against Northern Ireland. The following month, he scored a goal against England in the Olympic Stadium in Rome, spinning on the ball to whip it home with his left foot; though Italy lost the match, 3-2. In June, ironically, he scored twice in a 4-1 victory over Argentina in Florence.

The following November in a World Cup qualifying game in Turin, he scored four of Italy's goals in a 6-0 win against Israel. He stayed in the team for the ensuing World Cup finals and played twice in Chile against West Germany and Switzerland, but was fortunate enough to miss the second game, the so-called Battle of Santiago against Chile, notorious for its violence. He made nine appearances for Italy. Oriundi, the word given to South Americans of Italian descent, were by then losing favour.

In 1965, having scored 135 championship goals for Juventus, he moved to Napoli; but there things went awry. Injuries devastated the four seasons he had there; he only played a dozen games, though he had pocketed a signing-on bonus of £24,000. Alas, badly advised and probably exploited, the money ran out and by the time he went back to Argentina in 1969, there was little of it left.

As manager of the Argentinian national team, his initial impact was dramatic. He took them on a dazzling tour of Europe in 1973, when West Germany were beaten. But by the time the World Cup finals came round the next year, volatile Sivori, never one to suffer fools badly, had been dismissed. And - in West Germany, the team he had left failed sadly.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

See above regarding weak mentality just speak to any psg or Brazil fan, he's not a big game player. Has no pedigree in the CL and hardly any memorable performances.

And sorry to keep bringing Ramos into this but he's been in the UEFA team 7 times, 4 times la liga best defender and CL team of the season 4 times, EC and WC team dream team (08, 10) yet doesn't get the same credit as Silva who hasn't achieved anything close to him.

@Ecstatic @Pat_Mustard ... ??

 

[2mufc0]

GUNNAR NORDAHL

World Player of the Century: #46
IFFHS Sweden Greatest Player of The Century

A behemoth in the opposition box - naturally athletic and quick despite his imposing 6'1" and 95 kg frame - boasting devastating power and aerial dominance. He is known as one of the most clinical strikers ever - constantly challenging the defense with penetrative runs and finishing a record five times Serie A top goalscorer (no body else has managed more than three).

Serie A Top Scorer (5): 1950, 1951, 1953, 1954, 1955
Allsvenskan Top scorer (4): 1943, 1945, 1946, 1948
Olympic Games Top Scorer (1): 1948

He scored more than one goal per game if we take a three year peak - 442 goals in 504 matches and at international level 43 goals in 33 games. It was not easier to score in the Italian league back then either, the average top scorer finished at similar amounts every year as these days: 20-30. Only Nordahl has won 5 top scorer awards in the Serie A history - which stands as a record to this day. Nordahl was completely dominant, by having won 5 times in 6 seasons - an unparalleled feat. He dominated the box like Müller and was always in the right place after having made or found space for himself.

Nordahl remains the highest scorer in the history of AC Milan (incredible for a club that hosted Van Basten, Shevchenko, Weah, Inzaghi - among others), the 3rd highest scorer in Serie A history with with 225 goals in 291 games (his ratio of 0.77 goals per game is the highest among the Top 50 scorers of all time), and was until recently the highest scorer in a single Serie A season with 34 goals in 37 matches - a record that stood for over 60 years. That's aside from his record of 1.3 goals per game at international level.

* Credit: Caf's resident Scandinavian football expert @Annahnomoss.

Nordahl's primary task here is to play on the shoulder and keep the opposition center-halves engaged in exceedingly physical duels. In addition to his pure goalscoring - an incredible 513 official goals over the course of his career, tactically the combination of battering-ram presence and natural technical ability makes Nordahl a fantastic spearhead for the others to play off.