The Fifth Redcafe Sheep Draft Round 1 - Skizzo vs. idmanager

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their peak?

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    25
  • Poll closed .

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TEAM SKIZZO

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VS

TEAM IDMANAGER

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TACTICS TEAM SKIZZO

Formation 433

The idea is to limit space for the oppositions wingers. Two of the best of all time against Kieran Gibbs and an attacking full back in Dani Alves is obviously the area we would struggle most. Our plan would be to limit the space they have to work in. Conte buzzing around to help, and Petit to do the same on the other side. Campbell and da Guia would offer sterner resistance through the middle, and Campbells physical presence and da Guia's intelligent reading of the game would offer at least some extra defensive nous.

On the flip side, no fancy stuff, no intricate passing, tiki taka, build up...we're looking to hit quick and hard on the counter with our front 3, and with Ademir looking to play them in from deeper.

Good luck @idmanager


TACTICS TEAM IDMANAGER

Formation: 4-3-3/4-2-3-1

Defence:

The defense is marshaled and organized by Gaetano Scirea, the greatest Italian defender alongside Baresi. Partnering Scirea is Baresi's former partner in the greatest defense of all time, Alessandro Costacurta. Scirea and Costacurta are almost the perfect partners for each other.

On the left side is Silvio Marzolini, the greatest Argentine left back of all time. He will be playing a defensive role and only go forward if required to link up. On the right side of the defense is Mel Charles, voted the best defender of the 1958 world cup and called by Pele as the best and toughest defender in the 1958 World cup. He was part of the only Welsh team to qualify for the WC and reach the QF's only to lose to 1-0 to Brazil. This Welsh team did not concede more than 1 goal in any of the games despite facing some great attacking teams of that time in Hungary/Sweden/Brazil. He is a complete player capable of playing anywhere across the defense or as a DM. His job would be to stay back and kill any attacks from the left.

Midfield:

The midfield is designed in such a way that it is as balanced as possible in attack and defense. It should be capable of breaking up plays as well as dominating possession. It should have some great passers with brilliant passing range, but also players with great work rate. The three players that form it tick all the above boxes.

Fernando Redondo and Clarence Seedorf form the two man base with Paul Scholes ahead of them. Seedorf will support Mel Charles on the right side defensively and also keep things moving with his tremendous energy. Redondo and Scholes have lots of creativity to open up any defense and dominate any opposition midfield.

Attack:

The attack has a very simple setup.

The greatest undisputed right winger of all time in Garrincha. Loads of trickery with pin point crosses and capable of cutting in. Also capable of chipping in with goals.

A top 3 greatest left winger of all time in Dragan Dzajic. Similar skill sets as Garrincha. He had a magical left foot. Could deliver perfect pin point crosses and capable of cutting in. Scored his fair share of goals as well.

A team built with two greatest wingers of all time demands a striker perfect for their skill set. And leading the attack is John Charles, a complete striker. He was supremely talented, possessing a delicate first touch and good control, and in the air he was masterful. Not just because of his spectacular ability to rise above defences, but also the awesome power with which he could head the ball. Apart from his versatility, he was comfortable with either foot, possessed great stamina and strength.
 
Hm. From Mel's obituary: "Those who played with him in his Swansea days felt that centre-half was his best position, since it imposed an automatic discipline. When, on occasion, he was deployed at wing-half, he tended to run out of position"
 
harms said:
Hm. From Mel's obituary: "Those who played with him in his Swansea days felt that centre-half was his best position, since it imposed an automatic discipline. When, on occasion, he was deployed at wing-half, he tended to run out of position"
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The idea with Scirea around is to replicate the 1978-82 Italy defense.
Mel would be playing the role of Gentile in a slightly tucked in role, almost as a RCB, which is good against the opposition with a player like Neymar trying to cut in..

Of course, it has to be remembered that Mel Charles like John Charles could play attacking roles as well (Striker/SS etc) and so running out of position is something that would happen if he is to play a role in attack (from the right) as well as defense.
Here, his job is to sit back and defend, with Seedorf to support. He won't go forward at all. Garrincha doesn't need his support.

In a no non-sense all defence role, he is appropriate here.
 
Physiocrat said:
@idmanager Which version of Scholes is it? Late 90s offensive B2B, early 2000s second striker or late 2000s DLP?
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Its an hybrid of the first two versions you mention.
Categorizing Scholes as a pure second striker is unfair to his overall game and I don't think he was ever one in the pure sense of the term.
This is why I mention the formation as a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 depending on the phases of the game and Scholesy's relative position.

He is definitely not the older DLP version here.
 
Not a big fan of Mel here, but that center back pairing and the Garrincha/Dzajic -> Charles route are too good to be ignored.
 
idmanager said:
Its an hybrid of the first two versions you mention.
Categorizing Scholes as a pure second striker is unfair to his overall game and I don't think he was ever one in the pure sense of the term.
This is why I mention the formation as a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 depending on the phases of the game and Scholesy's relative position.

He is definitely not the older DLP version here.
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Fair enough. In that period with Ruud he actually played in an odd position on the left and Giggs played up front.
 
What do you expect from Ademir Da Guia and Scholes in terms of positioning/impact?
 
Ecstatic said:
What do you expect from Ademir Da Guia and Scholes in terms of positioning/impact?
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With respect to Scholes, his job will be to advance the attacks and be the primary play maker to bring the wingers and striker in play. He could chip in with his fair share of goals from this position.
He would be involved in having a grip on lots of the ball in possession and will not mind dropping back to Seedorf/Redondo's position if either have to drop beyond to defend or keep the ball while retracting.
Someone like Seedorf is capable of B2B bursts and Scholes could swap positions with him in such cases.

As I mentioned earlier, Scholesy's heat map will cover quite a bit of the grass in various phases of the game.
His work rate and wide range of skill sets allows me to have a Redondo+Seedorf base with the proper balance in attack and defense (without a dedicated DM or dedicated number 10) as I mentioned in the OP.
 
I think Scholes as a DLP would make more sense here to ping balls to Garrincha/Dzajic
 
Indnyc said:
I think Scholes as a DLP would make more sense here to ping balls to Garrincha/Dzajic
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To be fair, he could play that role as well (not in my formation here obviously), but I already have Redondo to dictate play from the deep which he was brilliant at and among the best at it, so decided to use the earlier version of Scholes with lots of freedom.

Besides, Scholes in the DLP role in all time contexts makes your midfield look defensively light weight and weak unless you have a Makelele around, which would still kill the attack-defense balance.

My current setup I felt was the best utilization of each player with the right balance.
 
Last edited:
FWIW, I did make another formation graphic but it was not sized well and looked a bit off, so ditched it for one of the next rounds if I have time.

Below is 2 hours of my time I'll never get back :lol:

1.jpg
 
idmanager said:
To be fair, he could play that role as well (not in my formation here obviously), but I already have Redondo to dictate play from the deep which he was brilliant at and among the best at it, so decided to use to earlier version of Scholes with lots of freedom.

Besides, Scholes in the DLP role in all time contexts makes your midfield look defensively light weight and weak unless you have a Makelele around, which would still kill the attack-defense balance.

My current setup I felt was the best utilization of each player with the right balance.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.. I feel redondo could do the same role as makalele but I see your point.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
I tell you what, you wouldn't mess with the Charles boys would you?! Built like brick shithouses!
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Mel Charles' second Wales cap came against Austria on 23 November 1955, in a game latter dubbed the 'Battle of Wrexham'. He was stretchered off with fifteen minutes to go after an Austrian boot went through the back of his leg; this was notable as the only time John ever lost his temper, as he reacted to the challenge by lifting the Austrian off the ground and screaming "If you ever do that to my brother again I'll bloody kill you!"
 
I am so glad I ditched that graphic formation.
Would have been worse than my arrow-gate :lol:
 
idmanager said:
With respect to Scholes, his job will be to advance the attacks and be the primary play maker to bring the wingers and striker in play. He could chip in with his fair share of goals from this position.
He would be involved in having a grip on lots of the ball in possession and will not mind dropping back to Seedorf/Redondo's position if either have to drop beyond to defend or keep the ball while retracting.
Someone like Seedorf is capable of B2B bursts and Scholes could swap positions with him in such cases.

As I mentioned earlier, Scholesy's heat map will cover quite a bit of the grass in various phases of the game.
His work rate and wide range of skill sets allows me to have a Redondo+Seedorf base with the proper balance in attack and defense (without a dedicated DM or dedicated number 10) as I mentioned in the OP.
Click to expand...
Reckon Seedorf as the primary play maker(ala mid 00's at Milan) with Scholes and Redondo manning the base of the midfield midfield would have the perfect balance. You have a very strong team though.
 
idmanager said:
FWIW, I did make another formation graphic but it was not sized well and looked a bit off, so ditched it for one of the next rounds if I have time.

Below is 2 hours of my time I'll never get back :lol:

1.jpg
Click to expand...
Looks great if only you made them 2/3 of their current size.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Reckon Seedorf as the primary play maker(ala mid 00's at Milan) with Scholes and Redondo manning the base of the midfield midfield would have the perfect balance. You have a very strong team though.
Click to expand...

I think the flexibility with the 3 midfielders here is that there are quite a few number of permutations possible w.r.t setups and positions for each.
It eventually comes down to how you rate each player in each position and what kind of a manager you are.
Prefer to be defensively safe or attacking-wise charming.

Me, I rate Scholes better from a pure attacking instincts point of view as compared to Seedorf, while I rate Seedorf's defensive contributions higher than Scholes'.
Obviously, I like my base midfield two to be defensively more safe and hence like it this way.
A Scholes-Redondo base with Seedorf ahead might feel tastier to a more attacking minded manager which is completely alright and I can see it working quite well too.

As I said, comes down to what kind of a manager you are.
 
I myself had the same idea, if memory serves right, for my first draft. Never posted it though :lol:
@idmanager
gKqmmVC.png



I think it's the same background picture!
aCa5QF8.png
 
idmanager said:
Mel Charles' second Wales cap came against Austria on 23 November 1955, in a game latter dubbed the 'Battle of Wrexham'. He was stretchered off with fifteen minutes to go after an Austrian boot went through the back of his leg; this was notable as the only time John ever lost his temper, as he reacted to the challenge by lifting the Austrian off the ground and screaming "If you ever do that to my brother again I'll bloody kill you!"
Click to expand...
Coming from Wrecsam, it definitely wasn't the last battle.... especially on Saturday nights.
 
harms said:
I myself had the same idea, if memory serves right, for my first draft. Never posted it though :lol:
@idmanager
gKqmmVC.png



I think it's the same background picture!
aCa5QF8.png
Click to expand...

Yea, that looks much better but less recognizable. Was tough to choose between quantity and quality :lol:
 
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