The Fifth Redcafe Sheep Draft Round 1 - Pat_Mustard vs. harms

[green_smiley]

TEAM PAT_MUSTARD

VS

TEAM HARMS

TACTICS PAT_MUSTARD

Formation: 4-3-3

Style of Play: Direct, high tempo attacking football.

There's no escaping the fact that I'm forced to field two sheep at full back, but going uber-defensive and playing on the back foot would only serve to exacerbate their weaknesses and blunt their strengths. They'll be at home in this system and style of play, and Rafael at least is a generous sheep allocation, impressing as first choice right back in a PL-winning league campaign. They're fairly well protected here defensively, with a familar GK behind them, an excellent defensive organiser in Popluhar, and McGrath as the particularly capable cover for Rafael. Van Hanegem and Breitner are adept at covering the wide areas too.

My midfield trio of Sammer, van Hanegem is an imposing and exceptionally well-rounded trio that combines intelligence, grit, playmaking ability and goal threat. Assuming harms fields Beckenbauer in defence, they look well capable of tilting the midfield battle in our favour, and giving our frontline the platform to shine.

That attacking line bristles with energy and flair, with the World Cup-winning duo of Kempes and Bertoni flanking one of the deadliest centre forwards of all time in Gigi Riva. With due regard for Streltsov and the stellar goalscoring record of Tom Finney, it's probably fair to say that Riva and Kempes are the deadliest goalscorers on the pitch.

TACTICS HARMS

This is another 4-4-2/4-2-4 attempt by me, but in this case it’s built around the unique Übermensch presence of Franz Beckenbauer. Günter Netzer joins his partner in crime to recreate the devastating partnership that captured everyone’s imaginations in 1972 (many regard that team as the Germany’s all-time best side) as a playmaking box-2-box.



Tom Finney, an all-time great winger, is supported by the World Cup-winning Jorge Olguin (who had also won Copa Libertadores and a few league titles for his clubs playing both as a right and center back) on the right and Branko Zebec forms a ridiculously fast left wing (Zebec ran 100 meters in less than 11 seconds, and you all remember Overmars) with the Dutchman. It’s on the wings that I have the crucial advantage, facing 2 loveable sheep — while centrally the complimentary duo of hardworking Elkjær and genius Streltsov are ready to capitalise on that advantage.

The key here is to give full freedom to Beckenbauer — I have 3 disciplined players on either side of him, tasked with assisting him in any way possible. And in Zebec I have an incredible all-rounder with experience playing as a CB, LB, CM and LW — he will adjust his role as he sees fit, overlapping Overmars, joining midfield or dropping to the CB position if needed.

Key points:

• Strong wings are facing 2 sheep, and my wingers are perfectly equipped to win this battle
• Creative hub in Beckenbauer and Netzer supporting my front 4
• Ruggeri, van Bommel and Olguin are perfectly positioned to free Beckenbauer
• Complimentary front two that is ready to get on the end of Finney/Overmars crosses and Netzer/Beckenbauer's passes

Spoiler: My videos, new and old — more relevant videos are available on the same channel

A compilation of Tom Finney’s highlights for England that I made for this draft:



Preben Elkjær vs Uruguay, 1986 World Cup




Eduard Streltsov in 1967, facing Austria

Spoiler: Joga’s 30 minutes long compilation on Günter Netzer — well worth the watch

 

[green_smiley]

Good luck @Pat_Mustard @harms

 

[harms]

Have to say that @Pat_Mustard, in my opinion, is up there with the best drafted teams since the round 2 — so unfair that he starts with 2 sheep disadvantage. Even now it's a great team with lots of my favorites (McGrath, Riva, Breitner, van Hanegem).

As for the game itself — obviously I'm going to point at da Silva twins as the main weakness, with Finney and Overmars being fantastic one on one, possessing terrifying pace and skill.


By the way, not that he really needs it, I'm sure most of you know Beara, but when I was making my Finney video, I stumbled upon some incredible saves by him, which prompted me to make this:


When Lev Yashin collected his European Player of the Year award in 1963, he insisted that the best goalkeeper in the world wasn't him, but the Yugoslav Vladimir Beara. Perhaps they were words born of modesty, but none who saw him play would doubt that Beara, who turns 80 this month, was one of the greats.

 

[idmanager]

I would go ahead and call @Pat_Mustard 's midfield, the best among all 16 teams till now. Even better than Laudrup/Souness/Keane for me.

 

[Moby]

many Balu regards that team as the Germany’s all-time best side

Fixed.

 

[harms]

By the way, there are a very few defenders I would've picked ahead of Ruggeri to deal with Riva. He was incredible physically, which, combined with a great defensive positioning and one on one game, makes him a tough opponent for the Italian.

 

[Gio]

Have to say that @Pat_Mustard, in my opinion, is up there with the best drafted teams since the round 2 — so unfair that he starts with 2 sheep disadvantage. Even now it's a great team with lots of my favorites (McGrath, Riva, Breitner, van Hanegem).

As for the game itself — obviously I'm going to point at da Silva twins as the main weakness, with Finney and Overmars being fantastic one on one, possessing terrifying pace and skill.


By the way, not that he really needs it, I'm sure most of you know Beara, but when I was making my Finney video, I stumbled upon some incredible saves by him, which prompted me to make this:


When Lev Yashin collected his European Player of the Year award in 1963, he insisted that the best goalkeeper in the world wasn't him, but the Yugoslav Vladimir Beara. Perhaps they were words born of modesty, but none who saw him play would doubt that Beara, who turns 80 this month, was one of the greats.

Yeah a couple of absolute worldies in there, the save against England is incredible in any era. And we've only got footage for perhaps 5% of his career, who knows what his portfolio looks like from other games. For me he's in the top half dozen of all time.

 

[harms]

Fixed.

@Balu is obviously an unquestionable authority on all things German, but is it really a big argument? I wouldn't call their 1954/90 or today's team as impressive as this one, and Netzer's inclusion makes this team better than the one that won the World Cup two years later in my opinion.

 

[Gio]

I would go ahead and call @Pat_Mustard 's midfield, the best among all 16 teams till now. Even better than Laudrup/Souness/Keane for me.

Yeah, you'd assume he takes control of midfield here, not just the 3v2 angle, but the quality gap between Van Bommel and the grizzly campaigners for Pat.

 

[harms]

Yeah, you'd assume he takes control of midfield here, not just the 3v2 angle, but the quality gap between Van Bommel and the grizzly campaigners for Pat.

I'm not denying that he has an advantage there, but it won't be a walk in the park for them though — Beckenbauer is the best ever at this role, stepping up from a flat back four to help the midfield, the likes of Zebec and Elkjaer will also be in contention in this midfield battle. Plus van Bommel is the master of his trade — at cheating, fouling, provoking others, and in other questionable ways of making up for the gap in talent there is between him and the rest.

Plus Sammer will be quite busy at the back, considering that I have 4 forward players it's suicidal to left them against only 4 defenders, two of whom are sheep.

 

[Enigma_87]

This one is hard. Pat has clear advantage in midfield and is likely to control the game.

On the other hand harms defence is equipped pretty well centrally to counter Riva and Finney is up against Fabio.

Lot's to like about Pat's team and his effort during the drafting was brilliant, but it's a pity that he's fielding 2 sheep here..

 

[antohan]

This one is hard. Pat has clear advantage in midfield and is likely to control the game.

On the other hand harms defence is equipped pretty well centrally to counter Riva and Finney is up against Fabio.

Lot's to like about Pat's team and his effort during the drafting was brilliant, but it's a pity that he's fielding 2 sheep here..

Agree on all counts. A superb recovery and would be through in any other matchup but his strengths are met with effective counters and the sheep (which have slotted in nicely otherwise) are facing Overmars and Finney on the counter.

Harms should ditch Streltsov and get another midfielder. Who are his subs?

 

[antohan]

Vladi Beara the belligerent bus driver

 

[harms]

Harms should ditch Streltsov and get another midfielder. Who are his subs?

It is the plan, eventually. But not now.

 

[sajeev]

Rafael is clearly a very generous sheep, he in my opinion contributed lot more to a title winning season than G. Neville ever did.
Just a bit unlucky, but in terms of talent and fight better than his predecessor

 

[harms]

Players that shouldn't be overlooked — the eventual match-winners that are left 1 on 1 against 2 of the weakest players on the pitch:
Sir Thomas Finney is facing Fabio Da Silva. Finney is an all-time great winger, who was known for his amazing skill and intelligence. Here's a little compilation that I made of his games for England:


To understand his greatness, you can mention the game against Ireland in 1949, for example. England won 9:2, Jack Rowley scored 4 goals, but it was Finney (who hasn't scored even once) who was called MotM by all experts, that's how big of an influence he was playing on either wing.

One of his famously worst games (and the only full game I was able to find with him):




Marc Overmars — absolutely deadly on the counter, one of the fastest players ever who ran as fast with the ball as he did without it:


Look at how he torments Maldini (who managed to somehow keep himself in the game) — and imagine what he would do left alone against Rafa. I love him to bits (Rafa, not Overmars, of course), but he stands no chance here

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Have to say that @Pat_Mustard, in my opinion, is up there with the best drafted teams since the round 2 — so unfair that he starts with 2 sheep disadvantage. Even now it's a great team with lots of my favorites (McGrath, Riva, Breitner, van Hanegem).

As for the game itself — obviously I'm going to point at da Silva twins as the main weakness, with Finney and Overmars being fantastic one on one, possessing terrifying pace and skill.


By the way, not that he really needs it, I'm sure most of you know Beara, but when I was making my Finney video, I stumbled upon some incredible saves by him, which prompted me to make this:


When Lev Yashin collected his European Player of the Year award in 1963, he insisted that the best goalkeeper in the world wasn't him, but the Yugoslav Vladimir Beara. Perhaps they were words born of modesty, but none who saw him play would doubt that Beara, who turns 80 this month, was one of the greats.

Cheers mate! I've got to say this is a fairly shite draw for me - yours is comfortably amongst the better teams we've seen in the first round, and you're very strong on the wings, which is precisely what I was hoping to avoid. Thank feck Gento is on the bench . Agreed that Beara is class. I've said it before, but in general the older keepers have really underwhelmed me when I've seen footage, but he's a real exception.

 

[antohan]

Rafael is clearly a very generous sheep, he in my opinion contributed lot more to a title winning season than G. Neville ever did.
Just a bit unlucky, but in terms of talent and fight better than his predecessor

We systematically applied the logic that first sheep was bad and second was decent, more so in this case as it's a pair and you are forced to play both.

 

[Moby]

We systematically applied the logic that first sheep was bad and second was decent, more so in this case as it's a pair and you are forced to play both.

Check the next draft idea thread wrt that post.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I'm not denying that he has an advantage there, but it won't be a walk in the park for them though — Beckenbauer is the best ever at this role, stepping up from a flat back four to help the midfield, the likes of Zebec and Elkjaer will also be in contention in this midfield battle. Plus van Bommel is the master of his trade — at cheating, fouling, provoking others, and in other questionable ways of making up for the gap in talent there is between him and the rest.

Plus Sammer will be quite busy at the back, considering that I have 4 forward players it's suicidal to left them against only 4 defenders, two of whom are sheep.

Without a doubt, although I'd point out that Sammer shares that mastery of reading of the game and the ability to contribute in all phases, without the silkiness in possession of course. I appreciate that you've surrounded Beckenbauer with willing water carriers in Olguin and van Bommel, although their quality in an all-time pool is questionable, and with you likely ceding a fair amount of control here Netzer in a midfield two alongside an unremarkable van Bommel looks porous to me against opponents with the attacking abilities of van Hanegem and Breitner. As regards Zebec and Elkjaer contributing to the midfield battle, sure, but then you also have to factor in Kempes and Bertoni, two similarly all-action dynamos who, unlike Elkjaer, don't have the responsibility of leading the line.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I would go ahead and call @Pat_Mustard 's midfield, the best among all 16 teams till now. Even better than Laudrup/Souness/Keane for me.

Yeah, you'd assume he takes control of midfield here, not just the 3v2 angle, but the quality gap between Van Bommel and the grizzly campaigners for Pat.

This one is hard. Pat has clear advantage in midfield and is likely to control the game.

On the other hand harms defence is equipped pretty well centrally to counter Riva and Finney is up against Fabio.

Lot's to like about Pat's team and his effort during the drafting was brilliant, but it's a pity that he's fielding 2 sheep here..

Cheers lads. I love this midfield, although Gio's Laudrup/Keane/Souness trio is fecking magnificent as well. Ruggeri is a good stylistic fit vs Riva to be fair, although I'd fancy Riva's sheer quality to cause problems anyway, but Kempes vs Olguin looks a promising route to goal for me, as does Breitner (averaged around a goal every 2 games at his midfield peak) breaking beyond the occasionally workshy Netzer.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Rafael is clearly a very generous sheep, he in my opinion contributed lot more to a title winning season than G. Neville ever did.
Just a bit unlucky, but in terms of talent and fight better than his predecessor

I'm still gutted that he never established himself here in the long-term. He was a fecking brilliant prospect .

 

[idmanager]

I'm still gutted that he never established himself here in the long-term. He was a fecking brilliant prospect .

I remember during the last few seasons of Fergie when our squad didn't have too many super stars or flair in our football, seeing Nani and Rafael start together on the right always lit me up although it was not very often with Valencia coming in. The way those two combined was truly amazing to watch.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Also, Rafael has the exact same career average rating on whoscored.com as Philip Lahm. That should surely propel me to victory here.

Lahm:

Season Team Tournament Apps Mins Goals Assists Yel Red SpG PS% AerialsWon MotM Rating
2016/2017 Bayern Munich GB 24(2) 2090 1 2 1 - 0.3 90 0.7 - 7.14
2016/2017 Bayern Munich UCL 7 660 - 1 3 - 0.6 91.7 0.6 - 6.94
2015/2016 Bayern Munich GB 25(1) 2200 1 1 3 - 0.4 90.8 1 1 7.09
2015/2016 Bayern Munich UCL 12 1110 - - - - 0.3 91.1 0.8 - 7.09
2014/2015 Bayern Munich GB 17(3) 1408 2 2 - - 0.7 89 0.5 - 6.90
2014/2015 Bayern Munich UCL 8 696 - 1 2 - 0.5 89.3 0.4 - 6.80
2013/2014 Bayern Munich UCL 12 991 - 4 - - 0.6 94.3 0.8 - 7.21
2013/2014 Bayern Munich GB 25(3) 2340 1 4 2 - 0.6 91.7 0.8 - 7.22
2014 Germany WC 7 690 - 2 1 - 0.4 90.8 0.6 - 7.36
2012/2013 Bayern Munich GB 28(1) 2504 - 11 - - 0.4 89.7 0.5 2 7.41
2012/2013 Bayern Munich UCL 12 1067 - 4 2 - 0.5 86.3 0.7 1 7.34
2012 Germany UEC 5 450 1 - - - 0.6 92.1 - - 6.91
2011/2012 Bayern Munich GB 31 2751 - 3 3 - 0.3 90.5 0.5 - 7.39
2011/2012 Bayern Munich UCL 12 1142 - 1 2 - 0.8 90.2 0.8 - 7.59
2010/2011 Bayern Munich GB 34 3060 3 2 3 - 0.3 87.9 0.4 - 6.89
2010/2011 Bayern Munich UCL 8 720 - - - - 0.4 91.3 0.1 - 7.33
2009/2010 Bayern Munich GB 34 3060 - 6 1 - 0.1 89.1 0.2 - 7.16
2009/2010 Bayern Munich UCL 13 1170 - 1 1 - 0.2 87.9 0.5 - 7.00
Total / Average

324 28109 9 45 24 0 0.4 89.9 0.5 4 7.16

Rafael:

2017/2018 Lyon UEL 4 360 - - 1 - - 83 0.8 - 7.53
2017/2018 Lyon FL1 6(2) 518 1 1 3 - 0.4 81.4 0.3 - 7.10
2016/2017 Lyon UCL 5 450 - 2 2 - 1.2 81.9 1.4 1 7.45
2016/2017 Lyon FL1 24(2) 2061 - 3 6 1 0.6 81.4 1.2 1 7.03
2016/2017 Lyon UEL 4(2) 301 - 1 1 - 0.5 76.6 0.2 - 6.63
2015/2016 Lyon UCL 4(1) 338 - - 1 - 0.6 78 0.8 - 7.09
2015/2016 Lyon FL1 18(3) 1454 1 2 8 - 0.6 81.7 1.2 - 6.92
2014/2015 Manchester Un.. EPL 6(4) 591 - 1 2 - 0.2 84.2 0.5 1 6.75
2013/2014 Manchester Un.. UCL 4 329 - - 1 - 0.3 81.3 1.8 - 7.60
2013/2014 Manchester Un.. EPL 18(1) 1421 - 1 5 - 0.4 78.8 0.9 1 7.05
2012/2013 Manchester Un.. UCL 6(1) 554 - - 2 - 0.3 88.9 1.3 - 6.98
2012/2013 Manchester Un.. EPL 27(1) 2317 3 3 6 1 0.8 84.5 1.3 4 7.36
2011/2012 Manchester Un.. EPL 10(2) 916 - 4 2 - 0.8 88.1 1 - 7.39
2010/2011 Manchester Un.. UCL 6(1) 505 - - - - 0.1 82.1 0.3 - 7.29
2010/2011 Manchester Un.. EPL 15(1) 1203 - 1 2 1 0.4 79.7 1.2 1 7.24
2009/2010 Manchester Un.. UCL 3(1) 239 - 1 - 1 0.3 81.3 0.3 - 6.99
2009/2010 Manchester Un.. EPL 8 683 1 1 2 - 0.4 77.7 1 - 7.82
Total / Average

190 14240 6 21 44 4 0.5 82 1 9 7.16

 

[harms]

This one is hard. Pat has clear advantage in midfield and is likely to control the game.

On the other hand harms defence is equipped pretty well centrally to counter Riva and Finney is up against Fabio.

Lot's to like about Pat's team and his effort during the drafting was brilliant, but it's a pity that he's fielding 2 sheep here..

Agree on all counts. A superb recovery and would be through in any other matchup but his strengths are met with effective counters and the sheep (which have slotted in nicely otherwise) are facing Overmars and Finney on the counter.

Harms should ditch Streltsov and get another midfielder. Who are his subs?

I like that you two agree, but it wouldn't hurt to vote too

Without a doubt, although I'd point out that Sammer shares that mastery of reading of the game and the ability to contribute in all phases, without the silkiness in possession of course. I appreciate that you've surrounded Beckenbauer with willing water carriers in Olguin and van Bommel, although their quality in an all-time pool is questionable, and with you likely ceding a fair amount of control here Netzer in a midfield two alongside an unremarkable van Bommel looks porous to me against opponents with the attacking abilities of van Hanegem and Breitner. As regards Zebec and Elkjaer contributing to the midfield battle, sure, but then you also have to factor in Kempes and Bertoni, two similarly all-action dynamos who, unlike Elkjaer, don't have the responsibility of leading the line.

Cheers lads. I love this midfield, although Gio's Laudrup/Keane/Souness trio is fecking magnificent as well. Ruggeri is a good stylistic fit vs Riva to be fair, although I'd fancy Riva's sheer quality to cause problems anyway, but Kempes vs Olguin looks a promising route to goal for me, as does Breitner (averaged around a goal every 2 games at his midfield peak) breaking beyond the occasionally workshy Netzer.

To be fair Olguin is hardly "questionable", he has more caps for Argentina than Kempes himself does (I'm going full-on Ecstatic here, sorry), including a great performance against peak Rensenbrink in the World Cup final. It's actually interesting, I thought about it after picking him — who is the second best Argentinian right back of all-time? Zanetti is clearly in the league of his own, but I think it's fair to say that Olguin will be his first successor.

Van Bommel stands out negatively considering the midfield personnel here, but I think you're underplaying him a little - he has won a league in every country he played in (Spain, Italy, Germany and Netherlands), was voted Dutch player of the year 2 times and Bayern's player of the year in 2006/07. He is also a masterful manipulator of the rules of the game, cheating and cunning his way into the game where he couldn't have got with his talent alone — something the young Rafael was awful at.

 

[Moby]

@Balu is obviously an unquestionable authority on all things German, but is it really a big argument? I wouldn't call their 1954/90 or today's team as impressive as this one, and Netzer's inclusion makes this team better than the one that won the World Cup two years later in my opinion.

What about 1980? Schuster controlling the midfield and Kalle marauding towards goal.

Loved the 2006 team as well, awesome to watch. Klose and Podolski's chemistry was similar to Yorke-Cole. Ejected from the tournament by Fabio Grosso.

 

[harms]

Also, a bit regarding Branko Zebec — whose versatility and experience is very important to my defensive organisation; he was very intelligent, strong, fast — and had experience playing as a center back, left back and midfielder (that is even before I mention his performances as a winger), so he can play multiple roles in my defensive unit, when, say, Beckenbauer decides to join the attack.

Branislav "Branko" Zebec (17 May 1929 in Zagreb, Kingdom of Yugoslavia – 26 September 1988 in Zagreb, SFR Yugoslavia) is one of greatest players in Yugoslavian history and is one of the most completed and versatiled footballers of all-time, could play everywhere on the pitch, mostly perform as left-winger but reach world-class status in the late career as center-back.

In his heyday the player from FK Partizan and Red Star Belgrade fascinated the world with his performances at the World Cups in 1954 and 1958. With Partizan he won 3 Yugoslav Cups (1952, 1954, 1957). With Red Star Belgrade he won the national championship in 1960.

True leader, fast thinker, understood the game perfectly. A highly versatile player noted for his physical abilities and understanding of the game, Zebec was world class whether on the left wing or in the more defensive role of left fullback, although he was capable of playing almost every outfield position on the pitch. He was particularly well known for his pace, having been able to run 100m in 11s with football boots.

He was tall (for '40s and '50s), tough and a little bit skinny, but with muscles. He began his senior career when he was only 16 years old. Almost immediately he got chance to play left winger for the first team (instead of much older and experienced players).

Player with great acceleration, speed and mobility. He could run 100m for 11s, in football boots (in the rank with the best Yugoslavian sprinters back in the late '40s and early '50s). Zebec played very good with his head and he was very calm in important moments (for example, when he was 19-20 years old, he scored 3 goals in decisive match for the title, two with his head). Beside the fact he was very, very fast, he was also very strong in duels and practically unstoppable on the left side. Zebec wasn't too sophisticated technical player, but he controlled ball very well with his left leg. In the game he was very brave and rational as well. Never made a move too much, used dribble only when it's necessary. For him, simplicity was a road to perfection (he achieved perfection in many, many games). Zebec really believed in his abilities on the court and he always gave his best in each and every game.

He occasionally played as a little bit defensive CF (very successfully). Against France he played as defensive CF, who had assignment to go back to defense, and guard Raymond Kopa (Real Madrid player at the time). He did that so successfully, that it seemed that Kopa didn't played at all. On the same game he also played very good in the attack, and journalists gave him 10, for his perfect game.

After all that, he was transformed into a CB (but he also continued to play as winger/attacker, wing half and full-back) and he was very good on that position. During the one of the most important games for the national team (qualifications for World Cup 1958), in which Yugoslavia played against Romania he played as CB. Many claim that this was his best game for national team at that position. Every high ball was his (very superior in the air), he won every 1 on 1 play against opposite attacker, also during the game he was in every place in the defense. In one word: Perfection! One of the coaches came to him after the game, grab his shoulder and said: "Are you a man or are you a beast? I've never seen anybody playing the whole 90 minutes so perfect and without any mistake!"

After his first game for national team in CB position (a few games before the one I mentioned before), many foreign journalists and football experts wrote that he's one of the greatest discoveries in CB and libero position (CWP) and that he played in those positions even better than on his original position. Many journalists, football experts, coaches and players, from 1950s, agree that Zebec was the best center-half during that era. Some of them even said, that he should be among Best 11 squad of all times.

 

[harms]

What about 1980? Schuster controlling the midfield and Kalle marauding towards goal.

Loved the 2006 team as well, awesome to watch. Klose and Podolski's chemistry was similar to Yorke-Cole. Ejected from the tournament by Fabio Grosso.

I like their 1980 team very much, but it doesn't beat that 1972 side for me — with Beckenbauer and Müller as 2 of Germany's arguably best ever players, Netzer, Breitner — even discounting the likes of Heynckes, Wimmer, Maier etc. I think it had more quality.

 

[Gio]

Finney/Fabio is a mismatch up there with Garrincha/Gibbs. That said, teams are consistently successful despite accommodating weaker players like that, because the collective is so much more important than the individual 1v1s. After all there is only one ball on the park, not 11, and the best teams keep it away from their weak links, both on and off it.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

To be fair Olguin is hardly "questionable", he has more caps for Argentina than Kempes himself does, including a great performance against peak Rensenbrink in the first Argie's World Cup win. It's actually interesting, I thought about it after picking him — who is the second best Argentinian right back of all-time? Zanetti is clearly in the league of his own, but I think it's fair to say that Olguin will be his first successor.

I didn't think he played particularly well in that WC final. Rensenbrink drifted all over the attack in that match so he wasn't just Olguin's responsibility in fairness, but he was influential and had two glorious chances to score, and I think it's Olguin who lost him in both instances



I think Carlos Sosa tends to get the nod as the second best Argentinean right back generally, as in here for example, with Olguin coming next in line according to that list.

 

[Enigma_87]

Finney/Fabio is a mismatch up there with Garrincha/Gibbs. That said, teams are consistently successful despite accommodating weaker players like that, because the collective is so much more important than the individual 1v1s. After all there is only one ball on the park, not 11, and the best teams keep it away from their weak links, both on and off it.

aye, if it wasn't also @harms having the upper hand the battle at the other flank I'd most likely have gone with Pat. Even with 2 sheep he has made a pretty good team and is right up there in this game that could go either way.

As you said with a collective spirit and dictating the game he has a chance to mask the deficiencies and if he converts his chances could easily go either way.

 

[Gio]

I didn't think he played particularly well in that WC final. Rensenbrink drifted all over the attack in that match so he wasn't just Olguin's responsibility in fairness, but he was influential and had two glorious chances to score, and I think it's Olguin who lost him in both instances



I think Carlos Sosa tends to get the nod as the second best Argentinean right back generally, as in here for example, with Olguin coming next in line according to that list.

Yeah, remember Rensenbrink being pretty influential in that game.

 

[Balu]

Fixed.

Both statements are obviously true. I'm sure I've had many controversial opinions about German football. That one isn't one of them. It's widely regarded as the greatest and certainly most entertaining German nationalteam. The match at Wembley in the qualifiers is up there with the greatest matches any German side ever played, sometimes even seen as the greatest.

@Balu is obviously an unquestionable authority on all things German

I'm not, I've said that plenty of times and actually don't like it. I don't mind people questioning my opinions and I'm sure someone like @Joga Bonito knows as much about that team as I know.

 

[Thunderhead]

I'm not voting on this one as I only know of about 10 of the players and I haven't time to read up on the ones I don't know about, but I'd be surprised if a team with the Da Silva brothers as full backs would win a decent game of football

 

[Moby]

I'm not, I've said that plenty of times and actually don't like it. I don't mind people questioning my opinions and I'm sure someone like @Joga Bonito knows as much about that team as I know.

Wrong again. It's one thing reading and watching archives and quite another to experience all that first hand as it happened and then get to know every little tid bit and interesting details about them. I can watch all the Uruguayan footage but would never know more than anto, and his insight on stories like Morena.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I prefer Netzer in a 3 man midfield. Against pats midfield they'd suffer to retain control over the game. Very close, but I think the midfield + back 5 gives Pat an edge. He's gotten decent wingbacks and Pat's set up makes full use of their abilities.

 

[harms]

Very close, but I think the midfield + back 5 gives Pat an edge. He's gotten decent wingbacks and Pat's set up makes full use of their abilities.

He either has the back 5 or the numerical superiority in midfield, not both.

 

[2mufc0]

Well done @Pat_Mustard you drafted amazingly after coming in and i really like your team, I don't consider Rafael a sheep, at his peak he was up there as the best RB in the league and he can do a job here, but Fabio vs Finney is a total mismatch.

 

[harms]

And @Gio with the late vote...

As I said earlier, brilliant attempt which was undermined by the sheep that you didn't deserve, @Pat_Mustard

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Well done @Pat_Mustard you drafted amazingly after coming in and i really like your team, I don't consider Rafael a sheep, at his peak he was up there as the best RB in the league and he can do a job here, but Fabio vs Finney is a total mismatch.

And @Gio with the late vote...

As I said earlier, brilliant attempt which was undermined by the sheep that you didn't deserve, @Pat_Mustard

Cheers lads and well played harms! Well deserved victory. Glad that Rafael was fairly well-received as I love the little fecker but two sheep full backs against very strong wingers was always going to be tough to overcome.

Reinforcement round is killing me though . With a luckier draw I'd be going into the second round with Maradona. I had Breitner as the ready made replacement for Fabio at left back, and I think Dani Alve went unpicked so he's have came in for Rafael.