The Ferguson Factor - Tonight, BBC1, 22:35 BST

Niall

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A heads up to people who have BBC1 - there's a documentary on Fergie's "unique" style of management (read: tea cup and hair dryer methods) on BBC1 tonight, 22:35 BST.

Apparently it features an interview with John Motson in 1995 where Fergie rips into him, telling him he's banned from OT, after a question about Roy Keane!

Could be good, don't miss it!
 
Hopefully they'll include his management skills of paying 28mil for a player thats done nothing all season <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
The program was a real scragging of SAF as a man. It was all a bit sad really! I am sure there was a basis of truth to all of it but it made me sick <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
 
Seemed to me, just from the mans' terminology, that he was no real football fan. A late convert - a prawn sandwich eater. HE's entitled to his opinion irrespective of what nuerosis it stems from. What was disgusting though was the cheap and scurrilious fashion in which he tried to tarnish Fergie's charecter as a man. It was so poor that Fergie could sue easily on two fronts -
(1) He implied, with no evidence, that Sir Alex put business Jason's (his son)'s way at the expense of United getting a better price for Jaap.
(2) He implied that Fergie was secretly behind a consortium to overtake United with (son)Darren taking trying to get city backing. This explained his reticence to criticise the Murdoch takover in public while undermining it behind the scenes.

It was also disgusting that interviews with Giggsy and robbo were cut to make it seem less positive about Fergie when this was obviously not the goal of either. The editing of the accounts of the famous bollocking of Giggsy and Lee Sharpe, cutting from Sharpy's account to Giggsy's and back, suggested that Giggsy felt, like Sharpe, that it was over the top. The editing throughout was sickening. The voiceover claiming Fergie's disgust at players saleries while he was getting less might have had a basis in reality, if it wasn't for the fact that the footage was of Keano, implying that Fergie thouht Keano's salary was excessive!
It was sensationalist journalism of the most asinine kind designed to help Crick sell more copies of his book. I can't believe the BBC think this kind of second rate muppett journalism is worthy of airing. People can have a go at fergie or whoever, but this was just underhand and churlish. The music was just a carricature for fu*k sake, melodramatic and sinsiter, making it seem like an acount of Aushwitz instead of O T!

I did love the absolute abuse of Motty though! :)
 
Crap Joke alert!!!!

Arsene Wenger was asked for his opinion of last nights documentary. He said

"I did not see ze documentary, but I sort it was a penalty to us in ze last 5 minutes"

;)
 
Feck, I posted this bloody topic and then went and forgot all about it and missed it :mad:

Ah well, from what dno says it was probably a blessing in disguise. I had a feeling it would have a negative slant on it based on what I'd read. Still, would liked to have seen the Motson incident!
 
&lt;b&gt;Seemed to me, just from the mans' terminology, that he was no real football fan. A late convert - a prawn sandwich eater. &lt;/b&gt;

His name is Michael Crick, he's a widely-respected journalist who helped take Archer down, and he was doing his job. He stated he'd been a United supporter since he lived in Manchester at age of 12.

&lt;b&gt;HE's entitled to his opinion irrespective of what nuerosis it stems from.&lt;/b&gt;

He's a journalist, it is his job to report the facts as he sees them. And despite all the hot air around here, he did report facts. Deal with it.

&lt;b&gt;What was disgusting though was the cheap and scurrilious fashion in which he tried to tarnish Fergie's charecter as a man. It was so poor that Fergie could sue easily on two fronts -
(1) He implied, with no evidence, that Sir Alex put business Jason's (his son)'s way at the expense of United getting a better price for Jaap.&lt;/b&gt;

No, he stated the fact that Jason profited from the Stam transfer to the sum of £1million, noted that United could have got a better price (as some around here mentioned at the time BTW) and said Jason's role in the transfer represented a clear conflict of interest.

We've since heard that Jason's role in transfers was a sticking point in the recent 3 year contract negotiation with Fergie, so it's clear others are unhappy about Jason's role too.

&lt;b&gt;(2) He implied that Fergie was secretly behind a consortium to overtake United with (son)Darren taking trying to get city backing. This explained his reticence to criticise the Murdoch takover in public while undermining it behind the scenes.&lt;/b&gt;

This was interesting and gives substance to the rumours surrounding the McManus shareholding in United.

&lt;b&gt;It was also disgusting that interviews with Giggsy and robbo were cut to make it seem less positive about Fergie when this was obviously not the goal of either. &lt;/b&gt;

I thought those interviews were fair and gave some balance to some of the more negative stuff. There were plenty of people there to give a positive view, which they did.

&lt;b&gt;The voiceover claiming Fergie's disgust at players saleries while he was getting less might have had a basis in reality, if it wasn't for the fact that the footage was of Keano, implying that Fergie thouht Keano's salary was excessive! &lt;/b&gt;

Er, Fergie himself says in 'Managing My Life' that managers should get paid more than players. Repeatedly. There's a whole chapter about pay.

&lt;b&gt;It was sensationalist journalism of the most asinine kind designed to help Crick sell more copies of his book. &lt;/b&gt;

No, it wasn't. I thought it was interesting and if the worse they can say about Fergie is he's got a nasty temper, is a bit nepotistic, wants to be paid more and doesn't like Chairman - well, I can live with that. Because that was the upshot of it all.

&lt;b&gt;I did love the absolute abuse of Motty though!&lt;/b&gt;

Really? I thought that was out of order and unfair of Fergie.
 
I for one enjoyed it. There was as much praise as slander. You can't expect to be successful as a manager without also being ruthless when it matters. The program server to highlight his passion for football, his loyalty to those loyal to him and his desire to be the best.

The important thing to remember is the players and the fans love him.
 
I thought it was desperate stuff, with a lot of it scooped by the Channel 4 documentary earlier in the year. I'm a journalist and this looked me like he was trying to dig around to find facts to support his angle, but didn't find enough. The consequence was that Fergie came out of it okay. The problem with Crick is that his reputation was about uncovering the seemier and often crooked side of well-known figures. This he has done well in the past. But Fergie...! He may well be hard, unfeeling bstd, who shows an almost pathological loyalty to his family and those who stay loyal to him (and this may not make him the best human being in the world) but he ain't a criminal, like some of Crick's previous targets. He's just a bloody good old fashioned football manager.
 
Originally posted by CheckOne:
<strong>I for one enjoyed it. There was as much praise as slander. You can't expect to be successful as a manager without also being ruthless when it matters. The program server to highlight his passion for football, his loyalty to those loyal to him and his desire to be the best.

The important thing to remember is the players and the fans love him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Although I didn't like Michael Crick trying his best to tarnish his name, especially the way they had that guy read out bits from when he was sacked from St. Mirren, it did show the two-edged nature to Alex. Just as nature is red in tooth and claw, and it rewards the best killers, so is Alex ruthless, yet loyal, unforgiving yet loving, demanding yet charitable. Every single one of us loves Alex Ferguson!
 
It was a hatchet job, and an attempt by Crick to add another big scalp to his collection.

Using the "reconstructions" was cheesy in extremis; uncovering the "evidence" from the St Mirren sacking did more harm to St Mirren than to Alex Ferguson, and made crick look like a bit of a tit.

So Fergie was sacked for not getting on with a director at St Mirren who admitted knowing nothing about football? So Fergie tried to run everything at St Mirren?

I'll bet St Mirren are really chuffed that they managed to sack the man who became the most successful manager in english football. tossers.

And I bet the United board wish they'd had all that information about fergie before they hired him! would have saved them all the bother of building a new trophy cabinet.

Selective editing was the real disgrace: Giggs and Robbo were both sent up big time. And try though crick did, he still couldn't get Eric to implicate Fergie in anything.

As for the Motty/Fergie bust-up: "SHOCK: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE: FERGIE SWEARS SOMETIMES!"
 
Originally posted by mancred:
<strong>It was a hatchet job, and an attempt by Crick to add another big scalp to his collection.

Using the "reconstructions" was cheesy in extremis; uncovering the "evidence" from the St Mirren sacking did more harm to St Mirren than to Alex Ferguson, and made crick look like a bit of a tit.

So Fergie was sacked for not getting on with a director at St Mirren who admitted knowing nothing about football? So Fergie tried to run everything at St Mirren?

I'll bet St Mirren are really chuffed that they managed to sack the man who became the most successful manager in english football. tossers.

And I bet the United board wish they'd had all that information about fergie before they hired him! would have saved them all the bother of building a new trophy cabinet.

Selective editing was the real disgrace: Giggs and Robbo were both sent up big time. And try though crick did, he still couldn't get Eric to implicate Fergie in anything.

As for the Motty/Fergie bust-up: "SHOCK: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE: FERGIE SWEARS SOMETIMES!"</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree completely, particulary with the cheesy reconstructions. Also, we'd heard all the "revelations" already this week. The worst thing was that it was on so f'n late that I'm knackered today!!
 
"His name is Michael Crick, he's a widely-respected journalist who helped take Archer down, and he was doing his job."

He's not a widely respected journalist, Hugh McIlvanney is a "widely respected journalist" Crick is a sensationalist who is trying to foster a reputation for seemy investigative journalism.


"He's a journalist, it is his job to report the facts as he sees them. And despite all the hot air around here, he did report facts. Deal with it."
I don't believe for one second that you were blind to the spin he was trying to put on things through editing, music, lighting and camara angles, all of which were juxtaposed with the facts.

"We've since heard that Jason's role in transfers was a sticking point in the recent 3 year contract negotiation with Fergie, so it's clear others are unhappy about Jason's role too." HE suggested that Alex Fergusson did not act in the best interests of United by taking less money for Stam in order to help his son. This is liabellous and I guarentee that law firms are at the gates of OT this morning offering their services. We have a track record of not suing though as Sir Ronald Gregor Smith who's a top barrister always argues against it. This accusation will hurt Fergie though.


"Er, Fergie himself says in 'Managing My Life' that managers should get paid more than players. Repeatedly. There's a whole chapter about pay." I know I've read the book. Detailing this while concentrating on footage of Keano was asinine though as Fergie was firmly behind Keano in his negotiations. In mml Fergie's position was balanced by claims that special talents deserve better pay in today's game. He's a pragmatist and to insinuate that he would have a problem with Keano's pay is at best stupid at worst liabellous.


"No, it wasn't. I thought it was interesting and if the worse they can say about Fergie is he's got a nasty temper, is a bit nepotistic, wants to be paid more and doesn't like Chairman - well, I can live with that. Because that was the upshot of it all."

What this shows is that despite everything Fergie came out fine as he's a great man.
 
With David Smith, Crick wrote 'Betrayal of a Legend' over a decade ago and quite rightly slated Louis Edwards and his share gathering along with everything up to Michael Knighton. Now he's now trying it with Fergie. I wonder if he's ever been face to face with the great man? I saw the preview of his book in the Mail before driving to Ipswich and refused to read it. I knew what its nature would be and it seems that it is confirmed by the crap dished up on BBC1. Smith and Crick both have an axe to grind with United and if you have a copy of 'Betrayal...' read the closing lines, written after Wembley '90 and before global domination - talk about foot in mouth!!!
 
"He's not a widely respected journalist, Hugh McIlvanney is a "widely respected journalist" Crick is a sensationalist who is trying to foster a reputation for seemy investigative journalism."

'You say tomato,' etc...

"I don't believe for one second that you were blind to the spin he was trying to put on things through editing, music, lighting and camara angles, all of which were juxtaposed with the facts"

Sure, I saw it and I discounted it. It's par for the course in any bleeding documentary these days and is more an indictment of current presentational techniques than Crick, per se. Grief, you can't even watch Horizon these days without a normal bit of scientific disagreement being spun into a titanic battle of egos.

"HE suggested that Alex Fergusson did not act in the best interests of United by taking less money for Stam in order to help his son."

He suggested that United could have got a better deal if the transfer had been 'put out to tender' so to speak. I think he's right. The whole Stam transfer has been unsatisfactorily handled for a legion of regions.

I happen to think this accusation has hurt Fergie. I don't like the fact Fergie's son takes a cut of some transfers, and I don't like the allegations about the sale of Greening & Wilson (which didn't get an airing last night). United is a Plc., not some amateurish Cheshire family business.

"What this shows is that despite everything Fergie came out fine as he's a great man"

He is that indeed, and I have no doubt Giggsy & Robson were there semi-officially to put a good word in, despite Crick's talk of 'Fergie not wanting us to make this programme' (and who can blame him?).
 
Originally posted by nickm:
[QB]"He's not a widely respected journalist, Hugh McIlvanney is a "widely respected journalist" Crick is a sensationalist who is trying to foster a reputation for seemy investigative journalism."

'You say tomato,' etc...

Grief, you can't even watch Horizon these days without a normal bit of scientific disagreement being spun into a titanic battle of egos.

Ha -- good point about Horizon.

But hang on. Crick is definitely one of the most respected journalists around. That's why it was a shame to see this programme -- some of his techniques made one raise the eyebrows about how much of his Archer/Heseltine hatchet jobs have been manipulated, too.

I'd say he has succeeded in tarnishing Fergie's reputation, though. It's a bit like Don Revie. Everyone knows now about how greedy he was, etc. Fergie will be remembered for the trophies, but now all his enemies have some ammunition -- fair, true, or not -- to throw at him.

What a shame.
 
He has grounds, you can't imply that he put business his sons way costing United millions without substantial evidence. He probably won't go through with it though, I'd expect the BBC the issue an apology withdrawing the implication.
 
I thought the programme/documentary was a great insight althought as someone stated earlier, most of it had been shown on Channel's 4's Football Stories 'Inside the Mind of Alex Ferguson' earlier in the year. For those of you that missed the programme, here are some of the interviews in full:

Bryan Robson
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/ferguson_factor/robson.ram" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/ferguson_factor/robson.ram</a>

Eric Cantona
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/ferguson_factor/cantona.ram" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/ferguson_factor/cantona.ram</a>

Franz Beckenbauer
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/ferguson_factor/beckenbauer.ram" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/ferguson_factor/beckenbauer.ram</a>

Alan Hansen
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/ferguson_factor/hansen.ram" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/ferguson_factor/hansen.ram</a>

I thought the John Motson momment was classic! Does anyone have that captured on VHS. If so, can you please upload it because I am sure others will want to see it again like me.
 
cant say I agree with the little comment from <a href="http://www.fromtheterrace.co.uk/manunited/news.cfm/106874" target="_blank">here</a> about encouraging a player to gamble.
It's not that Gillespe was encouraged to do it, he wasn't discouraged. They are two different things.
I thought the prog was ace though. Not sure I would be able to take it when he is throwing abuse at you right in your face. Fair play to the lads for sticking it out though, then again, for a few tens of thousand a week, I'm sure I'll learn to live with the shouting. :D