The Double Draft - R1: Raees vs Sjor Bepo (Sub by Sjor)

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

........................................ TEAM RAEES ......................................................................................... TEAM SJOR BEPO ........................................​

Spoiler: Sub by Sjor | Raees 10 - 8 Sjor

TEAM RAEES:

Formation: Balanced, mixture of 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3.. interchangeable really when going forwards, but defensively we will always have a solid core of 6 players as well as keeper. So defensively a 4-2-3-1.

Defensive strategy:

• Baggio and Neeskens keeping tabs on Di Stefano, Neeskens probably the ideal man to assist in a marking job of Alfredo as his stamina and ability to cover entire pitch is vital.
• Kopa to be man marked by Vogts (if he plays on the left)
• Elkjaer v Nasazzi.. titanic duel and if Elkjaer gets free, Da Guia will sweep up any trouble.
• High line - with Elkjaer I would rather risk his back to goal play happening 30 yards from penalty area, than drop too deep.

Attacking strategy:

• Mostly attack down the left, with Lizarazu, Best and Kubala linking up down that flank.. it’ll make his attacks very lopsided as going forwards he’ll be forced to use his left flank to generate momentum going forwards and I will have Vogts waiting for him.
• He has a lack of a DM, so picking up Kubala will be very tricky as he is very comfortable in all areas of the final third.
• My team can score all sorts of goals which is the beauty of having Piola in the side, very versatile No.9 who can score any type of goal and work with technicians pretty well too. Expect crosses, through balls.. direct style of attacking.
• Because I have Figo, Best, Kubala.. three of the best dribblers of all time, each of them requires a Vogts of sorts to mark them out of the game, otherwise you'd need to double up on them.. I think his absence of full backs in that really top tier will mean his team will get dragged out of position and their will be too many fires for him to put out.

TEAM SJOR BEPO

Tactics:
Had a luxury of getting one of the greatest to ever play the game so the idea was pretty simple - try to get the best out of Don Alfredo Di Stefano. The general formation is not the easiest to explain when you have him in the team but so you can see it as 4231, 433. 451 its not that important.


Game plan:
The core idea behind the tactic was to build a team that was exemplary in all facets of the game - particularly skill when we have possession of the ball, and outrageous work-rate off it - which enables us to adjust to in-game situations with relative ease, tailoring the approach to put some dents in the opponent's strong suit.

Off the ball, all of the outfield players evidenced tireless work-rate and pressing ability (with the possible exception of Kopa - don't know too much about his defensive work rate, if I'm being honest) - within the overall defensive framework of the team. The two midfield generals - Schweinsteiger and Keane from the ideal vanguard behind the omnipresent Don Alfredo, who was perhaps the first and last to combine midfielder and striker role in a greatest of all time caliber package. The front three consists of Kopa, Elkjaer (the ultimate team player and a relentless forward), and Mauro Camoranesi - who again, was the epitome of industriousness, Legacy status, now-withstanding. And of course, the proven partnership of Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic - forming a wall in the center of the defense.

Going forward its all about the Don, he is surrounded with a supporting cast according to his taste. Two midfielders that are great on the ball but also proved themselves in supporting roles so they wont mind Don Alfredo to run the game on his own but if they are leaved free they are both capable of running the game on their own. Attacking quartet or trio as you wish will be given absolute freedom when in possession, from Elkjaer to Camoranesi they can move where ever they want, in translation they will move where ever Don wants. All 3 are capable of playing anywhere in the final third except maybe in striker position but this is where you get benefits of having Don Alfredo. Because of Don's in-game versatility and overpowering nature, a classic and more focused #9 striker wouldn't have been the ideal fit. Elkjaer is perfect as a rangy, hard-working striker who can link-up with ease, and stretch the field both horizontally and vertically - creating ample room for Di Stéfano to operate in - be it in midfield, or further forward when he goes on one of his trademark barnstorming drives from the deep. Because of Elkjaer's sacrificial personality, he's a great complement to the best player on the field, rather than an impediment. Kopa is in pretty much his best role and has fantastic understanding with Don, and Camoranesi will be balance player, for every Martial you need a Lingard (ffs quoted this guy several times now, should remember his name!) and he will be a Lingard of my team - someone who will work hard, make sacrificing runs for the team, keep it simple and ensure Don and Kopa are in best situations to flourish.

Player Roles
Thibault Courtois - Goalkeeper

Eric Gerets - Rightback - Attack
Rio Ferdinand - Centerback - Sweeper
Nemanja Vidic - Centerback - Stopper
Manuel Amoros - Leftback - Support

Roy Keane - Midfielder - Defensive Box2box
Bastian Schweinsteiger - Midfielder - Complete Midfielder
Alfredo Di Stefano - Defender, Midfielder, Striker - Complete Package

Mauro Camoranesi - Winger - Free Role Support Player
Raymon Kopa - Winger - Free Role Attacking Midfielder

Preben Elkjaer - Striker - All-Round Hard-Working Striker

Bench: Oleh Blokhin, Luis Enrique, Thomas Muller, Ricardo Carvalho

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Raees @Šjor Bepo Game on. All the best!

@Rado_N Usual poll please. Thanks in advance!

 

[Rado_N]

Poll added.

 

[Raees]

Poll added.

Thanks mate and @Edgar Allan Pillow. Cracking side Sjor.. strong United contingent!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

good luck @Raees , cheers, Schweini leads United contingent!
Defensive strategy:

• Baggio and Neeskens keeping tabs on Di Stefano, Neeskens probably the ideal man to assist in a marking job of Alfredo as his stamina and ability to cover entire pitch is vital.

I already have man power in midfield and will probably dominate the game, if you put both of them on Di Stefano i will have both Keane and Schweini to control the game with ease....if not, its Di Stefano vs Baggio, best player on the pitch against the worst.

• Kopa to be man marked by Vogts (if he plays on the left)

What happens when Kopa moves to central positions or to the right?

• Elkjaer v Nasazzi.. titanic duel and if Elkjaer gets free, Da Guia will sweep up any trouble.

There is also Di Stefano, the biggest goal threat and the main goal threat of my team.

• High line - with Elkjaer I would rather risk his back to goal play happening 30 yards from penalty area, than drop too deep.

wont argue against this one


Attacking strategy:

• Mostly attack down the left, with Lizarazu, Best and Kubala linking up down that flank.. it’ll make his attacks very lopsided as going forwards he’ll be forced to use his left flank to generate momentum going forwards and I will have Vogts waiting for him.

IMO my team will dominate the game so if anything we will dictate on which side someone will attack but im not sure if i agree with the general idea though, just because one team leans towards one side it doesnt mean the other team needs to switch to another(Real - Barca are the perfect example, Real prefers the left flank, Barca the right and both teams have their chances)

• He has a lack of a DM, so picking up Kubala will be very tricky as he is very comfortable in all areas of the final third.

Not sure if you can attack the opponent side for lack of DM when they have Keane and Schweini in the same team, specially as both are there in support roles.

• My team can score all sorts of goals which is the beauty of having Piola in the side, very versatile No.9 who can score any type of goal and work with technicians pretty well too. Expect crosses, through balls.. direct style of attacking.

With Rio and Vida back i actually prefer this direct style of attacking.

• Because I have Figo, Best, Kubala.. three of the best dribblers of all time, each of them requires a Vogts of sorts to mark them out of the game, otherwise you'd need to double up on them.. I think his absence of full backs in that really top tier will mean his team will get dragged out of position and their will be too many fires for him to put out.

Well, the plan is to avoid individual approach and mark them with defensive cohesion and ball possession

 

[Raees]

I already have man power in midfield and will probably dominate the game, if you put both of them on Di Stefano i will have both Keane and Schweini to control the game with ease....if not, its Di Stefano vs Baggio, best player on the pitch against the worst.

I am not looking to control the game possession wise (its irrelevant to my overall strategy), the likes of Figo, Best and Kubala.. not to mention my striker Piola, do not need my team to dominate possession to be effective. As long as Neeskens and Baggio feed them the ball once they have won it, my attacking quartet will definitely create goalscoring chances. I also don't think Schweini and Keano as good as they are, are sophisticated enough passers to really make the most of their extra possession and penetrate my defence with their 'control'. Both have other qualities but dominating and controlling the flow of a game by passing is not their strength.. both are basically looking to fight a battle here which I am not even looking to win.

What happens when Kopa moves to central positions or to the right?

He can try and go right but he'd be picked up by Lizarazu. As good as Kopa is, he is nowhere on the level as Cruyff, arguably the hardest player you could mark in the history of the game considering the positions he takes up, yet Vogts was more than up for the job and nullified his threat. Kopa roams around but to a lesser extent and Vogts will take him out the game imo.

There is also Di Stefano, the biggest goal threat and the main goal threat of my team.

Of course but Nasazzi the greatest defender of the pre WWII era should theoretically be enough to take out Elkjaer. Nasazzi is famed for his strength, speed, leadership and aggression.. he's the perfect match up against Elkjaer and you're talking about a guy who not just won the World cup but was a captain in his early 20's and eld Uruguay to numerous international championships.. a man for the big occasion. That will free up Da Guia to keep tabs on Di Stefano too.. if he can escape both Baggio and Neeskens. There is more than enough defensive coverage in my side to have players spare to make up for individual mistakes. Di Stefano in theory needs to escape the clutches of three players almost to even get a goal. How many defences can say that?

IMO my team will dominate the game so if anything we will dictate on which side someone will attack but im not sure if i agree with the general idea though, just because one team leans towards one side it doesnt mean the other team needs to switch to another(Real - Barca are the perfect example, Real prefers the left flank, Barca the right and both teams have their chances)

You've got an arrow on Gerets bombing on. Do you realistically think that will happen when Best is on that flank. He is going to need both Gerets and Camronesi on him and even then I doubt you will keep him quiet.

Not sure if you can attack the opponent side for lack of DM when they have Keane and Schweini in the same team, specially as both are there in support roles.

If Keane and Schweini were up against a Riquelme, it would be fine because he operates in central areas, is slow as feck.. so they both can take turns nullifying him out the game. Kubala is a guy who is a wizard on the wings, a playmaking maestro like an Iniesta who is very hard to keep tabs on and has a goalscoring record of 194 goals in 256 appearances , voted Barcelona's greatest player ever.

Sort of guy you would need a defensive specialist like a Rijkaard to protect against, not a pair of B2B midfielders.

Lets not forget in Europe, Keano thrived more when he had a Butt alongside him protecting him (i.e. v Juventus).. Scheweini operates best when he has a Khedeira/Javi Martinez/Luis Gustavo next to him. Both are generally not trusted to be pure DM's against quality technically gifted opposition. Schweini's DM reputation for me is overstated and built on his game v Messi in WC Final 2014, where it was an easy marking job.. a team with just Messi as a threat. This is Kubala, Best, Figo.. there is not just one attacking threat and this is Kubala in peak form, not a overwhelmed Messi in his first world cup final.

With Rio and Vida back i actually prefer this direct style of attacking.

I have 3 of the best flair players in the history of the game, so they won't struggle to create chances against that defence when you consider that Ferdinand and Vidic have been made to look beatable against against arguably weaker attacks than mine i.e. Pedro, Villa and Messi.. is for me not on the same level as Figo, Best, Kubala behind a Piola. Guys like Eto'o, Torres and Drogba were a handful for them both, so Piola who is rated as the best ever Italian No.9 and a perfect target man striker who blends high level of skill (inventor of bicycle kick), athleticism and all round goalscoring ability will absolutely keep them both occupied and he will be hard to stop.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I am not looking to control the game possession wise (its irrelevant to my overall strategy), the likes of Figo, Best and Kubala.. not to mention my striker Piola, do not need my team to dominate possession to be effective. As long as Neeskens and Baggio feed them the ball once they have won it, my attacking quartet will definitely create goalscoring chances. I also don't think Schweini and Keano as good as they are, are sophisticated enough passers to really make the most of their extra possession and penetrate my defence with their 'control'. Both have other qualities but dominating and controlling the flow of a game by passing is not their strength.. both are basically looking to fight a battle here which I am not even looking to win.

Of course you will create chances with the quality you have in the team but there will be plenty of chances for my team with your adventurous(to be polite) approach. You cant focus on Di Stefano and just ignore players like Keane and Schweini, its game over if you do. Yes they are not Xavi and Iniesta but they are both very good in possession and if you give them time and space they will hurt you.
Bastian is a very good passer of the ball, can pick the final pass easily if you give him time and space in the final third, can hurt you with long shoots and is also capable of this:

Spoiler

Likewise Keane, while he isnt as elegant as Basti his passing is underrated as feck and he can break teams with his tenacious runs, open the space for him and he will exploit it, its simple as that.
Im not having Gattuso and Essien in midfield, think you are underrating them massively....

He can try and go right but he'd be picked up by Lizarazu. As good as Kopa is, he is nowhere on the level as Cruyff, arguably the hardest player you could mark in the history of the game considering the positions he takes up, yet Vogts was more than up for the job and nullified his threat. Kopa roams around but to a lesser extent and Vogts will take him out the game imo.

Yes, he is nowhere near Cruyff but your team is nothing like Germany 74 neither, they all worked their ass off and helped Vogts massively with their work rate and movement, your team and defence cant match that so if Vogts tries to do what he did on Cruyff you will be exposed as feck on your right side and with amount of space inside i reckon Kopa could get the better of Vogts even though he is nowhere near Cruyff level.

You've got an arrow on Gerets bombing on. Do you realistically think that will happen when Best is on that flank. He is going to need both Gerets and Camronesi on him and even then I doubt you will keep him quiet.

With your plan to give my midfielders a free ride i would encourage Gerets to bomb down the right as much as he can, 2v1 against Lizarazu time and time again will hurt you more then Best will hurt me on the counter with Keano who will have free hands to help on stopping Best.

Sort of guy you would need a defensive specialist like a Rijkaard to protect against, not a pair of B2B midfielders.

Lets not forget in Europe, Keano thrived more when he had a Butt alongside him protecting him (i.e. v Juventus).. Scheweini operates best when he has a Khedeira/Javi Martinez/Luis Gustavo next to him. Both are generally not trusted to be pure DM's against quality technically gifted opposition. Schweini's DM reputation for me is overstated and built on his game v Messi in WC Final 2014, where it was an easy marking job.. a team with just Messi as a threat. This is Kubala, Best, Figo.. there is not just one attacking threat and this is Kubala in peak form, not a overwhelmed Messi in his first world cup final.

Again, you are not against Essien/Ince/Gattuso, while they are both classified as b2b they were always closer to the complete midfielder category. And funny you mentioned few of this players, Butt was a B2B so is Khedira so if both performed well with them as partners, how will they not perform together? Specially as both are far more rounded then previously mentioned examples.

I have 3 of the best flair players in the history of the game, so they won't struggle to create chances against that defence when you consider that Ferdinand and Vidic have been made to look beatable against against arguably weaker attacks than mine i.e. Pedro, Villa and Messi.. is for me not on the same level as Figo, Best, Kubala behind a Piola. Guys like Eto'o, Torres and Drogba were a handful for them both, so Piola who is rated as the best ever Italian No.9 and a perfect target man striker who blends high level of skill (inventor of bicycle kick), athleticism and all round goalscoring ability will absolutely keep them both occupied and he will be hard to stop.

Yeah, they struggled because of Pedro and Villa lol. They struggled because barca midfield dominate the game with ease and they had Xavi, Messi and Iniesta creating havoc in the final third. Id take that trio before yours(as much as i like Best and Figo) any day of the week + they were in the team that dominated almost the whole match while your plan is to sit, defend and try to hit on counter. Torres was stopped more often then not but of couse people will only remember that one game where he got the better of Vidic. As for Drogba, this is what the man himself had to say about Rio and Vida:

“People say I scored a few goals against Manchester United and I would say when I was scoring against Manchester United I was really, really happy because I didn’t score much. So for me to score against [ . . . ] means that I had a good game.”

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Here are few gifs of my legacy player - Mauro Camoranesi, Guerin d'Oro of 2007/2008 season. award that goes to the player in Serie A with at least 19 games played, which has obtained the best average-media rating.
Few gifs are missing first second as the gif site was fecked at the time so apologies in advance for that.

Spoiler: Cutting inside from the left and providing a beautiful assist for his teammate

Spoiler: Nice run off the ball, good touch and a fantastic finish with weaker foot

Spoiler: Run at teams

Spoiler: Shooting ability

Spoiler: Little bit of south american magic

Spoiler: Another great shoot from distance, this time a volley

Spoiler: Nice combination play and skill before winning a penalty

Spoiler: Holding the ball and waiting for a overlapping fullback(Gerets)

Spoiler: Fantastic run and pass

Spoiler: Another nice bit of play with his overlapping fullback partner(Gerets)

Spoiler: Camoranesi in a nutshell, perfect team player

Spoiler: Showing his dribbling ability against Bayern

Spoiler: Workrate and unselfishness

 

[Šjor Bepo]

And here is Raymond Kopa footballing masterclass against Spain in the same role that he will perform for this team:

 

[Raees]

Select Player Profiles (Just realised EAP hasn't posted them)

Sergio RICO (Youth Team Player) - Young keeper for Sevilla who as 2 Uefa Cup titles to his name. He has a bright future in the game and is De Gea’s understudy for the Spanish national team. Calm, tall and excellent shot stopper, he played an instrumental role in the home wins against Real and Barca as well as their run to the copa del rey final. ESPN states the following:

Rico is a tall and slenderly built custodian who practices a calm, conservative and secure style of goalkeeping -- a marked contrast to the highly proactive, often reckless approach of Beto. He generally sticks to his line and relies on good positioning and solid reactions to make his saves. His build, gait and style are reminiscent of those of Chelsea goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois.



Domingos DA GUIA - Rated as the best Brazilian defender of all time and the original inspiration behind sweepers like Figueroa and Passarella. ‘The Divine Master’ was the first ever sweeper in football and the first defender to bring the ball out of defence and treat defending as an art not as an act of warfare. (Please read my detailed write up about his career and achievements if you want an insight into his greatness).

Dino BAGGIO (Legacy player) - Experienced at the highest level, instrumental in taking Italy to the world cup final in 1994, winning several uefa cups and one of the best italian midfielders of the 90s. You can find further details of his career here.

Silvio PIOLA - Piola is the best goal scorer in the Serie A history by an outstanding margin, having scored 274 goals in 537 appearances. The next man on the list is Roma’s Francesco Totti, who currently sits precisely 30 goals behind. It has been calculated that in all competitions Piola scored over 500 goals. He is the only player alongside Omar Sivori to score six goals in a single game in Serie A. Piola was a mix between a Paolo Rossi-type poacher and a classy, skillful striker in the mold of Christian Vieri. His speed, hunger for goals, aggression and overwhelming physique made him one of the most feared attackers in the game in the 1930s. In addition to these abilities, he was sublime in the air and had an extremely powerful shot, which earned him an amazing number of goals. Piola was an out-and-out striker. Equally adept at shooting from distance and finishing up-close, Piola was good with both feet and strong in the air. His range of attributes made him a unique player for his generation, as Italy was more accustomed to producing “specialist” forwards during Piola’s era rather than all-rounders.

Piola went on to play 34 games for Italy and score 30 goals, a tally that would surely have been greater if not for the interruption caused by World War II. In 1937 and 1938 he was nominated for the so-called World Selection. Piola only managed to play in a single World Cup tournament, in 1938, where the Azzurri triumphed. At the FIFA World Cup™ in France, he not only finished the second highest scorer with a tally of five goals, he also made the All-Star Team and was elected the best player of the tournament. Playing with Meazza, Piola’s performances were glorious. He scored five goals in four matches and formed with Meazza the arguably greatest ever striking partnership in the history of Italian game. Never after 1938 has the world seen a more dangerous Italian offensive combination.

His artistic play has become a particular part of legend in Italy. After two goals in the quarter-finals against the hosts, France (3-1), the French media baptised him “Executioner of French” (“Borreau des Francais”). In the final, Piola scored the goal to go ahead 2-1 and then the last in the 4-2 triumph over Hungary. The Hungarian international Pal Titkos later described his impressions of the final: “He stood in the centre, between his two close team-mates. Silvio Piola had a fantastic physique and constantly overran his opponents. He was a man of great versatility and a centre forward without fear. He exploited any opportunity for shooting on goal.”

 

[Raees]

Jose Nasazzi - Greatest Pre WW II centre-back

The world’s best centre back between the 20’s and 30’s - utterly imperious as he led his country Uruguay to global title after title. He developed a reputation as a strong, quick defender with excellent positional ability, and quickly caught the attention of the national team selectors. His leadership skills and the respect that he was able to command from his team-mates made him the ideal candidate for the captaincy. Nasazzi became something of a father figure to the rest of the team, even in his 20s, as his colleagues looked up to him and followed his instructions. Nasazzi's international career began in the 1923 South American Championship on home soil, with his debut coming at right full-back in the opening game against Paraguay. Uruguay won that game and the two that followed to claim the championship, and Nasazzi was named player of the tournament. The following year, the national team travelled to Europe for the first time to play in the Olympic Games in Paris. Under Nasazzi's captaincy Uruguay stormed through the tournament, winning all five matches by a combined margin of 20 goals to two to claim the gold medals. Despite this international success, the amateur status of Uruguayan football meant that throughout the 1920s he kept his job of cutting marble for a living.

He would lead Uruguay to further success in the next two South American Championships in which they appeared. Titles were claimed on home soil once more in 1924, and in Chile in 1926, after conflicts within the national association had led them to miss the 1925 edition. Nasazzi did not play in the 1927 tournament as Uruguay finished as runners-up behind Argentina, but was back in 1928 as the team returned to Europe to defend their Olympic title in Amsterdam. Victories over the Netherlands and Germany took Uruguay into the final against great rivals Argentina, and after a draw in the initial game they claimed victory in a replay. Nasazzi had led his country to a second gold medal, and a fourth major title in just six years. In 1929 he was unsuccessful in the South American Championship for the first time as Uruguay could only finish third, having won all three previous tournaments in which Nasazzi had been in the squad. However, the main focus for the national team was now the first World Cup in 1930, which they would host. Wins over Peru and Romania in the group stage and Yugoslavia in the semi-final took Uruguay into another final match-up against Argentina. At half-time their hopes were starting to fade as Argentina took a 2-1 lead, but Nasazzi was able to inspire his team to a second half fightback which brought three goals and World Cup glory with a final score of 4-2. As the Olympic Games had been the biggest international tournament in the world prior to the introduction of the World Cup, Nasazzi had now effectively led his country to three consecutive global titles. His impact on Uruguay's success was recognised when he was named player of the tournament. Despite his remarkable run of success at international level, Nasazzi had so far been unable to replicate that with his club. Bella Vista had become established as a strong top division club, but had not been able to compete with the older, more powerful clubs in the country. Their best finish had been second behind Nacional in 1924, when there were two competing league competitions. When professional football came to Uruguay in the early 1930s, it was Nacional who made an offer for the national team captain and Nasazzi moved on at the end of the 1932 season. In his first season with Nacional, the club finished level with rivals Peñarol at the top of the league and faced a play-off, which they eventually won after three matches.

At the age of 32, Nasazzi finally had a major domestic honour to go with all his success at international level. A second league title would follow in 1934, as Nacional finished three points clear at the top of the league but that was to be the last championship for Nasazzi as Peñarol went on to dominate the next few seasons. Nasazzi was denied the chance of leading his country in a second World Cup when the holders refused to take part in the 1934 tournament in Italy in protest at the small number of European teams who had travelled to the 1930 finals. However, there was to be one final success at the end of his career at the 1935 South American Championship, the first such tournament for six years. Just as he had been 12 years earlier, Nasazzi was player of the tournament as Uruguay took another title by winning all three games, Nasazzi's defence conceding just one goal. His international career finished in 1936, having captained his country to four continental titles, two Olympic gold medals and one World Cup. He retired from playing in 1937, aged 36, but returned as coach of the national side in 1942. In 1945 he led the team at the South American Championship but was unable to repeat the success of his club career, only finishing fourth. Following his retirement, Nasazzi spent some years working in radio before his death in 1968, aged 67. As well as being remembered as his country's greatest captain, he is also immortalised in the name of Bella Vista's home ground, the Estadio José Nasazzi.

 

[Ecstatic]

Great job. I will make some comments asap

 

[Enigma_87]

Raees has excellent flanks. Vogts and Figo are one of my favorite right flanks and have picked both of them before. Naturally Lizarazu and Best as well.

Sjor IMO has advantage in midfield, but Raees one is not too shabby either. He has made a good use of Baggio.

There's lot to like in Sjor's side as well - the two full backs the united core and Di Stefano in midfield. He has done a pretty good job both in drafting stage and with his DoFi players.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

He has done a pretty good job both in drafting stage and with his DoFi players.

TBH i was pretty damn lucky with DoFi players, starting from legacy player all the way towards tevezobola....good money spent on Edgar

 

[Šjor Bepo]

raees said Keane and Basti cant control the game, first thing that pops my mind is Keane's FA Cup winning performance against Liverpool:

 

[Ecstatic]

Raees has excellent flanks. Vogts and Figo are one of my favorite right flanks and have picked both of them before. Naturally Lizarazu and Best as well.

Sjor IMO has advantage in midfield, but Raees one is not too shabby either. He has made a good use of Baggio.

There's lot to like in Sjor's side as well - the two full backs the united core and Di Stefano in midfield. He has done a pretty good job both in drafting stage and with his DoFi players.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Raees is much stronger on the wings.

Sjor has probably a stronger central midfield - despite the wonderful Neeskens - because there is Dino Baggio & because Di Stefano is a little bit more completed than Kubala.

Surprised to see Kopa on the left but given his versatility (central attacking midfielder or right-winger with Real Madrid), I guess he can do the job.

I think I will wait for the development of the discussions to take a decision.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Surprised to see Kopa on the left but given his versatility (central attacking midfielder or right-winger with Real Madrid), I guess he can do the job.

He is on the left only on paper, read the OP, see the match compilation i posted and you will understand his role more.

 

[Ecstatic]

He is on the left only on paper, read the OP, see the match compilation i posted and you will understand his role more.

Thanks

 

[Raees]

Video Time..

Spoiler: Neeskens, Figo and Vogts

 

[Raees]

Spoiler: George Best

 

[Raees]

I'm inclined to agree with you. Raees is much stronger on the wings.

Sjor has probably a stronger central midfield - despite the wonderful Neeskens - because there is Dino Baggio & because Di Stefano is a little bit more completed than Kubala.

Surprised to see Kopa on the left but given his versatility (central attacking midfielder or right-winger with Real Madrid), I guess he can do the job.

I think I will wait for the development of the discussions to take a decision.

K opa on the left is not an issue. Had him on my team in a previous draft, very versatile player and quality playmaker. My only issue is that I have Vogts, who in my opinion is the best type of full back to deal with such a gifted and roaming playmaker who operates primarily in wide areas.

@Šjor Bepo ..I didn't say Keane and Schweini can't control a game. Both are very accurate passers and good enough technicians to dominate games. My claim is that if I dropped off them and focused more on Di Stefano, they wouldn't hurt me like a Xavi or Pirlo would. I can afford them possession. Another issue for you to deal with is if Neeskens breaks forward with Kubala, he is more of a goal threat than your pair (scored 15 goals and 12 goals in a season, would regularly score goals/get assists).

 

[Ecstatic]

K opa on the left is not an issue. Had him on my team in a previous draft, very versatile player and quality playmaker. My only issue is that I have Vogts, who in my opinion is the best type of full back to deal with such a gifted and roaming playmaker who operates primarily in wide areas.

Yeah, Vogts is known for his marking on Cruyff at the WC74

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Why is Kopa there instead of Blokhin? Oleg is a far better presence at left wing and will add similar creativity to Kopa.

 

[harms]

Why is Kopa there instead of Blokhin? Oleg is a far better presence at left wing and will add similar creativity to Kopa.

Good question. It would've been a very fluid 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 with Blokhin stretching the defence with his pace and movement and cutting in when Di Stefano drops back. Although I don't agree that he is equal to Kopa in terms of creativity

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Both have other qualities but dominating and controlling the flow of a game by passing is not their strength.. both are basically looking to fight a battle here which I am not even looking to win.

maybe you didnt mean it but you said it thats for sure.
I dont know, i saw it as a close game even though i thought i had a better team but your decision to focus only on Di Stefano makes this game a sure win for me but maybe im wrong. Your plan is to defend and hold on the pressure with only 6 man of which one is fecking Dino Baggio, i wouldnt single him out so often if he wasnt in such a important role. And on top of that you have both of this 6 players focusing on Di Stefano which leaves both Keane and Basti relatively free. They are not Pirlo or Xavi but leave them with time and space and they will hurt you, 100% as they are neither Gattuso or Essien.
If Neeskens break forward then you have 5 man back and if you dont score you are in deep shit as even with Neeskens you are not protected enough IMO.
We didnt even touched the fact that you are playing a high line in a defensive setup that play against Elkjaer and Kopa who are really fast and have great off the ball movement.

Why is Kopa there instead of Blokhin? Oleg is a far better presence at left wing and will add similar creativity to Kopa.

Because Blokhin was a safe option and i wanted something different this time and attacking trio or quartet of players with free roles and interchanging their positions was a tempting prospect, now when i know raees game plan in full it was a good decision.

Yeah, Vogts is known for his marking on Cruyff at the WC74

Yes, he is nowhere near Cruyff but your team is nothing like Germany 74 neither, they all worked their ass off and helped Vogts massively with their work rate and movement, your team and defence cant match that so if Vogts tries to do what he did on Cruyff you will be exposed as feck on your right side and with amount of space inside i reckon Kopa could get the better of Vogts even though he is nowhere near Cruyff level.

 

[Ecstatic]

@Šjor Bepo

I'm not arguing for one or the other.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Šjor Bepo

I'm not arguing for one or the other.

i know but i was answering everyone so covered this as well

 

[JeffBoomTetris]

Team Sjor's backbone is powerful. Hard to beat a centre-back pairing of Rio and Vidic. With Courtois behind them and a Keane-Schwein combo in front, the opponent will find it hard to break down that middle. And then there is Di Stefano, the best player on the pitch.

Most of Team Raees' attacks will have to be concentrated on the wings. With Gerets making forward runs regularly, Best will have a joyful time down that side. But Figo will have to work harder to beat Amoros. But, Team Sjor's midfield seems to complete to be warded off.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Good question. It would've been a very fluid 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 with Blokhin stretching the defence with his pace and movement and cutting in when Di Stefano drops back. Although I don't agree that he is equal to Kopa in terms of creativity

Not in a general sense, but from a free roaming left wing / attacking midfielder perspective, I do rate Blokhin as better for the role.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Not in a general sense, but from a free roaming left wing / attacking midfielder perspective, I do rate Blokhin as better for the role.

even if you rate Blokhin higher for that role its not by much and when you take into consideration Kopa's understanding with Di Stefano it evens things out, at least....

 

[harms]

even if you rate Blokhin higher for that role its not by much and when you take into consideration Kopa's understanding with Di Stefano it evens things out, at least....

Blokhin has one big advantage over Kopa. While the Frenchman wasn't particularly slow (and neither were Vogts), Blokhin was one of the fastest footballers in the history of the game, which adds another dimension to his attacking play and makes it harder to man-mark him. Cruyff wasn't very fast - in fact there is a quote by him that the speed of his mind made him look faster than he actually was - but Vogts' reading of the game mostly nullified it in the 1974 final. Same will probably happen with Kopa - but it won't with Blokhin

More so, take a look at how Blokhin humiliated Vogts (and Beckenbauer and the whole Bayern's defence) single-handedly (footedly?)

EDIT: feck, I was sure that it was Vogts, but it he didn't play - still, it's a classic Bayern defence with Beckenbauer and Schwarzenbeck in it

 

[Theon]

That was a fantastic goal - not seen that before. Which game was it in?

 

[harms]

That was a fantastic goal - not seen that before. Which game was it in?

European Supercup 1975, Blokhin scored the only goal in the first game and 2 goals in the return leg, Dynamo won 3:0 on aggregate

It wasn't Vogts though, he didn't play, forgot about that and just assumed by the position

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Blokhin has one big advantage over Kopa. While the Frenchman wasn't particularly slow (and neither were Vogts), Blokhin was one of the fastest footballers in the history of the game, which adds another dimension to his attacking play and makes it harder to man-mark him. Cruyff wasn't very fast - in fact there is a quote by him that the speed of his mind made him look faster than he actually was - but Vogts' reading of the game mostly nullified it in the 1974 final. Same will probably happen with Kopa - but it won't with Blokhin

More so, take a look at how Blokhin humiliated Vogts (and Beckenbauer and the whole Bayern's defence) single-handedly (footedly?)

I know harms, i picked Blokhin before the auction with almost open winger pool, rate him very highly and yes, he fits perfectly on that left wing. In my vision of this team Kopa fits better as he would be all over the place, right left and center + that understanding with Don Alfredo was something that i couldnt disregard, i mean them two in 3 seasons spent together won CL 3 times in a row, league 2 times and dominated Balon d'Or lists like it was a joke - correction they dominated the football scene.
Ballon d'Or
1956 - 1. Matthews 2. Di Stefano 3. Kopa
1957 - 1. Di Stefano 2. Wright 3. Kopa and Edwards
1958 - 1. Kopa 2. Rahn 3. Fontaine
1959 - 1. Di Stefano 2. Kopa 3. Charles

Already answered about Vogts stopping Cruyff, it was a totally different ball game and he wouldnt be able to repeat it with Kopa even though he is class below Cruyff.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Kopa fits better as he would be all over the place

I don't recall Kopa playing left at all.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I don't recall Kopa playing left at all.

I said it few times, he is on the left only on paper, could have easily put him on the right and Camo on the left and avoid all this but i wanted to make clear intention of my idea. Watch the game compilation against Spain that i posted in this thread, he pops up everywhere(on the left as well). Him, Camoranesi, Elkjaer and Di Stefano(even though he is irrelevant as that was his natural game) all have free roles and all can move all around the final third. There will be always someone on the left offering width, would it be Amoros or Camoranesi/Elkjaer/Kopa its irrelevant as all will interchange during the game. Di Stefano and lets say Kopa pretty much "dictate" who will move where.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Ohh and one more thing(feeling bad for posting so much more then raees tbh), if some cant decide the winner maybe this helps, i have a much better gk then raees.
Sergio Rico has one and half season of serious football under his belt, solid young gk but Courtois is class above. Has 4 seasons on a very high level, id rate him as a top 4 gk in the world behind Neuer, Buffon and De Gea. We usually use 3 years peak for this so he even ticks that box, achievements:

Team:

• La Liga: 13/14
• Copa Del Rey: 12/13
• Europa League: 11/12
• UEFA Supercup: 2012
• Champions League(runner up): 13/14
• Premier League: 14/15

• League Cup: 14/15

Individual:

• Belgian Professional Goalkeeper of The Year: 2011
• La Liga Zamora Trophy: 2013, 2014
• La Liga Goalkeeper of The Year - LFP: 2013
• Best Belgian Player Abroad: 2013, 2014
• ESM Team of The Year: 13/14
• UEFA Champions League Team of The Season: 13/14
• Belgian Sportsman of The Year: 2014

Regarding the last one, he is the first footballer in history that won the award that goes all the way back to the 1967!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

making a switch without warm up, feck them.

high press and praying for this

Spoiler: El Magico

 

[Ecstatic]

Camoranesi RB or RW in this scenario?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Camoranesi RB or RW in this scenario?

RW as the team will do a high press immediately after they lose the ball.