The Double Draft R1 - Chester vs Marty/RT

Who will win the match?


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    22
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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......................................... Team Chester ............................................. ......................................... Team Marty/RT ........................................

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TEAM CHESTER

General:

The formation is a pretty basic 5-3-2/3-5-2: Three central defenders, two wingbacks, three central midfielders (two more defensive, one more offensive), two strikers.

Approach/Game plan: I'm prepared to concede possession and do my main offensive damage in the form of counter attacks. However, the team is more than capable of building up attacks from scratch, so I won't be hoofing away desperately, waiting for my opponent to make a mistake. There are two obvious routes to goal here for me: A liberating pass out wide (to either wingback), most likely from Albertini, Charlton or Moore, followed by a cross, or a more intricate movement through the middle (with Charlton being the most likely one to carry the ball forward).

The three central defenders will maintain a fairly deep line. They will not press high up the pitch. I will take no special measures against any individual player on my opponent's team.

XI/roles:

David De Gea: GK. His main asset is his shot stopping ability. He is not a grand leader of men, so that part will be left in the hands of others. He is there to pull off saves.

Lilian Thuram: RCB. His brief is simple (but obviously not very simple to carry out): Protect the right side of the area and beyond. His role is essentially that of a stopper, but one who is very familiar with defending out wide.

Bobby Moore: CB. His role is that of a defence leader. He is the main man, controls the line, and ventures beyond it himself with the ball. He will carry the ball out of defence, looking for passing options – both short (centrally and also wide) and long (mainly wide). He is a free man of sorts, what you could call a libero if it weren't for the fact that this term carries with it certain connotations I don't want the readers to get caught up in. His role is easy to understand: He commands the line (and the middle) defensively – and when on the ball, he ventures forward, if necessary or opportune, to find the best possible alternatives for a pass (either long or short, either centrally or out wide). In that sense he is, indeed, the free man back there. But he does not function as either a classic “sweeper” or a Beckenbauer style “libero”.

Karl-Heinz Förster: LCB. His brief is a mirror image of Thuram's. Protect the left side of the area and beyond. Unlike Thuram, he isn't a specialist wide defender (in the same sense), but he is a specialist LCB, having performed this exact role before with some success.

Manfred Kaltz: RWB. His most conspicuous trait is his crossing ability, and his brief in this match very much reflects this: Offensively, he will mainly attempt to get into positions from where he can plant crosses in (and around) the box. He will play an important part in the team's attacking plan, bombing forward (as they say) whenever he gets the chance.

Hans-Peter Briegel: LWB. His role is similar to Kaltz' but it is worth noting that Briegel is more of a defender (generally) than his counterpart, and his brief in this game is more balanced (i.e. less specialized).

Thiago Motta: CM/defensive. His role is the most basic of the three designated central midfielders: He will play a fairly conservative holding game, keeping things simple when on the ball. Key (cliché but apt enough) phrase: “Keep it ticking over”.

Demetrio Albertini: CM/defensive. His role is similar to Motta's but with the significant difference that he will seek out much more adventurous passing options. Albertini will attempt to set up runners both centrally and – not least – out wide. His passing range, as they call it, is generally considered to be excellent. Rightly so, I'll be bold enough to add. His most important attribute, however, is his intelligence. He will know when to go for those adventurous plays I suggest – and when to simply kick it short, metronome style, to whoever happens to be the most logical target.

Bobby Charlton: CM/offensive. Ideally, the key player on the park for me, as you'd expect. Charlton will play a central midfield role, but one with a clear offensive brief: He will carry the ball forward, looking for passing options – and he will attempt to finish himself if or when the opportunity arises, whether it be inside the box or from range. His role is demanding and requires him to put in a proper shift, being the main connection between midfield and attack, working plenty off the ball in addition to carrying it – a hardworking, selfless playmaker, if ever there was one.

Dennis Law: Striker. Law will play deeper than his partner, seeking to link up with Charlton and the wide runners to a greater extent. This ought to suit him well.

Jimmy Greaves: Striker. His main task is finishing and that is what he will focus on. He is by nature not a stationary player, however, so he won't be standing around waiting to be served – but rather work the left channel as well as the box.

Team Marty/RT

The Lineup:

With Banks in goal we have as good a keeper as anyone else in the draft. We have in front of him three solid centre backs with Hierro controlling the back line and stepping up to act as defensive midfielder when we have the ball. His presence in this area will help to break up play and prevent through balls to Law. Schnellinger will benefit from having a very disciplined Lahm alongside him to help keep tabs on Chester’s right side, which will enable him to keep a close eye on Greaves who will be Chester’s main attacking threat along with Law and Charlton.

With Lahm and Di Livio we have two players who will look to attack when possible but will do so when it’s right to. Neither of them would be too gung-ho when attacking which might leave space behind. They are both experienced enough to know when to attack and when not to. Unlike some attacking wingbacks in this draft they both have excellent work-rate to track back.

The midfield is full of players who excel with the ball at their feet. Xavi, Overath and Effenberg are all able to play short, quick balls or long range passing for van Basten to hold up or run into the channels for. They all provide an attacking threat when given the chance. For Moore’s exceptional understanding of the game, he was not the quickest. Van Basten was sharp and with the awareness of Overath, Del Piero, Xavi and Effenberg, will be able to find space in the box.

Overath will be the main creator in midfield with Effenberg providing the strength and power. He was the main reason Gunter Netzer only won 37 caps for his country. Overath was a genius on the ball. Arguably the best player at the 1970 World Cup.

Xavi is an absolute genius on the pitch. His awareness, vision of all that happens around him and passing ability is a key reason for Barca and Spain's domination. Getting the ball off him and Overath will be a challenge in itself for Chester.

Effenberg and Hierro (stepping up) would provide the tough tackling in the middle of the park to match Chester's side. Effenberg's strength, work rate and awareness made him one of the hardest centre mids in Europe for a spell between the late 90's early 00's. His vision and distribution was also impeccable (see video clip below).


Tactics

We have a number of avenues to attack Chester’s team…either on the flanks with Lahm/Overath on the left and the pace and trickery of Di Livio on the right hand side. These will provide excellent service to van Basten who will prove a stern test for even the great Bobby Moore.

In midfield we have the players to constantly keep the ball moving and Del Piero behind van Basten will be able to find any gaps in front of the back four to exploit.

Defensively we have excellent defenders who are disciplined and will make it difficult for Law to find sufficient space. Our defenders are also great in the air and so will have the upper hand when defending set pieces. Similarly, they provide great aerial threat from attacking set pieces which Lahm and Del Piero would provide with deadly accuracy.



A couple of video clips just for entertainment..



The brilliance of van Basten


Incredible vision from Effenberg
 
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Very interesting set of teams, both 5 at the back.
 
Quite similar teams, set-up wise - Marty going for a slightly more offensive midfield configuration being one difference.

Just a small point I thought I'd mention: While the trio of Förster, Kaltz and Briegel played together (similar roles in a similar set-up, at that), this is actually more of a coincidence than anything else: I didn't pick them for that reason (although it's a nice enough bonus, you could say), and I haven't modeled my team on any West Germany incarnation either (the most obvious one would be the '80 Euro champions - but, again, I'm not seeking to emulate that team: The set-ups are similar, but that's to be expected when going for a wingback solution).
 
One thing which strikes me, looking at the write-up is that Moore is mentioned quite a bit - which is natural, of course. But Van Basten, when operating in the box, is more likely to be picked up by either Thuram or Förster - who play as more pure stoppers here, with Moore marshalling, sweeping, playing the part of a more free man in defence.

Not saying that a Moore-Van Basten "duel" won't happen here - it easily could. But Moore's main task won't be to keep a constant eye on Marco.
 
A couple of points first off…

Chester concedes that he’d be happy to give up possession and play counter attacking football. That’s a dangerous tactic with the vision of Xavi, Overath and Del Piero in front of a back three. Allowing our team the ball will enable Xavi to do just what he does best – control the tempo of the game and gradually drag players out of position for either the overlapping wingbacks to exploit or for other midfielders to find space.

Our back three will certainly have to work hard to contain Greaves’ clever runs and Law but with effenberg in front of them and Hierro stepping up this could end up being a very congested part of the field, which may well force Chester’s team to go wide.

Don’t see either Motta or Albertini offering much attacking creativity so will be a heavy reliance on Charlton. Our team on the other hand have plenty of players who can create an attack (either Xavi/Overath in a slower build up or the brilliant distribution of Hierro or Effenberg for counter attacks). Di Livio’s pace on the right flank will be a great asset.
 
Most of these boys should be very familiar, so I won't harp on about 'em as far their quality is concerned. Posting this, though - should be some examples of Kaltz' crossing there.

 
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A couple of points first off…

Chester concedes that he’d be happy to give up possession and play counter attacking football. That’s a dangerous tactic with the vision of Xavi, Overath and Del Piero in front of a back three. Allowing our team the ball will enable Xavi to do just what he does best – control the tempo of the game and gradually drag players out of position for either the overlapping wingbacks to exploit or for other midfielders to find space.

Our back three will certainly have to work hard to contain Greaves’ clever runs and Law but with effenberg in front of them and Hierro stepping up this could end up being a very congested part of the field, which may well force Chester’s team to go wide.

Don’t see either Motta or Albertini offering much attacking creativity so will be a heavy reliance on Charlton. Our team on the other hand have plenty of players who can create an attack (either Xavi/Overath in a slower build up or the brilliant distribution of Hierro or Effenberg for counter attacks). Di Livio’s pace on the right flank will be a great asset.

Even if Chester wanted to go toe to toe, if you are up against Xavi.. 99 times out of a 100 you'll be on the team with less possession even if you tried to press high up the pitch. The guy is simply too good in tight spaces and his vision will allow him to find the right pass regardless.

Therefore Chester has no choice here and his tactic albeit decided already for him, is the right one.
 
Don’t see either Motta or Albertini offering much attacking creativity so will be a heavy reliance on Charlton.

Not Motta - he's pretty much instructed to keep it basic. But Albertini will offer plenty of creativity - not by involving himself high up the pitch, but by making plays from his deep-ish position.

Charlton is obviously important, though - that much is clear.
 
Interesting game.

Chester has clearly 2 stronger stoppers but Varane is a 'youth player' while DDG is the 'youth player'.
 
6 German players on the pitch. Our German pundits could enlighten us :angel:
 
Heading out for a while - will let people comment and criticize, then I'll be back later to see how things stand.
 
History of the Game - WC FINAL 1966 - 4 players on the pitch

The positioning don't matter here because the involved players are versatile.
 
Just to counter (pun intended) the point made above: The team is set up to be defensively very solid – it's set up to be able to withstand an opponent who will likely have more of the ball. When counter attacking there's always a risk of losing possession, but the back line isn't going to be standing high up the pitch during said counters – nor are Albertini or Motta meant to be bombing forward. It's basically a fifty-fifty split between attackers and defenders – with the wingbacks bombing forward, and Charlton moving up to join Law and Greaves to form a central attacking trio (if you will).

The drawback of having two conservative midfielders on the park becomes an advantage when I don't have the ball (or when I lose it). Compare it to Marty's configuration, with Effenberg at the base – a fighter, a physical player (as Marty correctly says) but not an ideal holder for my money (he is much more attacking by nature than either of my CMs/DMs).

It is – basically – a pretty defensive, or cagey, approach, as I'll gladly admit. But the fifty-fifty split mentioned means that I'm able to attack to a considerable degree – with committed attackers, as it were, without exposing myself at the other end. That's the idea, at least.
 
To be honest I'm quite surprised with the Albertini pick. Were there no better midfielders available?

The rest of the team is almost flawless (although the holding duo can and probably will be upgraded).

Don't like Di Livio - Varane partnership, you have two of your weakest players on the same side - even if Briegel isn't an all-time outstanding offensive threat, Greaves' runs there will be very dangerous. Also I never was a fan of Lahm on the left. And I'm not convinced that this midfield will work as good as it should on paper.
 
To be honest I'm quite surprised with the Albertini pick. Were there no better midfielders available?

The rest of the team is almost flawless (although the holding duo can and probably will be upgraded).

Don't like Di Livio - Varane partnership, you have two of your weakest players on the same side - even if Briegel isn't an all-time outstanding offensive threat, Greaves' runs there will be very dangerous. Also I never was a fan of Lahm on the left. And I'm not convinced that this midfield will work as good as it should on paper.
I'd probably have started Di Livio and Lahm on opposite sides as the German would connect well with Xavi. I'd give the edge to Marty/RT in midfield in terms of general ball dominance. But Motta and Albertini both excel in hard-working compact defensive midfield set-ups and would therefore provide a solid protective layer in front of the defence as well as providing Charlton with freedom. It looks like Charlton could be influential here as I'm not convinced about Effenberg as a designated holding defensive midfielder, and see him more as an all-rounder inclined to press and support in other areas of the park.
 
To be honest I'm quite surprised with the Albertini pick. Were there no better midfielders available?

Blanchflower is one – and I considered him. He could have done much the same, but I've picked him before on several occasions, so I'm a bit tired of him! Have picked Albertini before too – but that's quite a while ago now. I like him myself – so there's that. But the actual rationale behind fielding him is – simply – that I want a central midfielder who shines in two particular areas: a) someone who is tactically excellent and who won't struggle with the generally cagey approach – and b) someone who is a brilliant passer, by which I mean absolutely first rate. I need him to set up the runners with precise balls, that's very important.

I have Pep on the bench, who obviously can pass with the best of them, but I feel he's a poorer fit for this particular set-up, being someone I see ideally as operating even deeper – and in a slightly different role (more of a pure DLP, if you will). I also have Jansen, who would offer much more as an actual hound and nuisance (to feck up things for Marty's midfielders) but he doesn't offer the same extreme passing quality.

In short, Albertini is there because of the wingbacks – that would be the simple answer. His ability to find them with dangerous, liberating passes (while being defensively and tactically sound) is a key element for me.
 
Some initial comments...

RT/Marty

Hierro is better off as a DM covering Charlton than a Sweeper, as I don't really like Effenberg in a pivot type role. Hierro-Effenberg will instantly make that a world class shielding line!

Lahm at left is good, but as a wingback? Even at right, I'd hesitate to play him as an attacking wingback. Back 4 is his best place imo.

Overath-Xavi kinda reminder me of Overath-Netzer which was deemed unworkable. Netzer had Wimmer and Overath had Hoeness/Bonhof as partners iirc. He has Effenberg, but supporting both of them may be quite difficult even for Effenberg. Maybe @Balu can provide some commentary here!


Chester:

Briegel - I rate him as balanced defender, similar to Evra, but better. He has the knack of scoring goals, but I don't recall his attacking contribution enough to fit the role he's playing here.

Motta-Albertini comes across a bit static as neither were known for their pace. A burst of acceleration from Del Piero would be hard to handle for either of them.

Chester's attack is outstanding, but I think it'll lack the support, both wide and middle (above comments) that may blunt it.
 
But the actual rationale behind fielding him is – simply – that I want a central midfielder who shines in two particular areas: a) someone who is tactically excellent and who won't struggle with the generally cagey approach – and b) someone who is a brilliant passer, by which I mean absolutely first rate. I need him to set up the runners with precise balls, that's very important.
Don't you rate Alonso? I would've picked him ahead of Albertini myself, but I can understand if it's your personal preference.

The likes of Ocwirk could've worked, although he would've cost 20m and I can understand the lack of desire of picking players with almost no footage of them.
 
I'd probably have started Di Livio and Lahm on opposite sides as the German would connect well with Xavi.
Yeah, I like this option better - puts Lahm on his preferred side, he will love playing alongside Xavi and it breaks the looser combo of youth/legacy picks.
 
To be honest I'm quite surprised with the Albertini pick. Were there no better midfielders available?

The rest of the team is almost flawless (although the holding duo can and probably will be upgraded).

Don't like Di Livio - Varane partnership, you have two of your weakest players on the same side - even if Briegel isn't an all-time outstanding offensive threat, Greaves' runs there will be very dangerous. Also I never was a fan of Lahm on the left. And I'm not convinced that this midfield will work as good as it should on paper.
That's the benefit of Lahm and Di Livio in that they can both play on either flank. Switching them may well be an advantage as Schnellinger would provide excellent cover for Di Livio.
 
Briegel - I rate him as balanced defender, similar to Evra, but better. He has the knack of scoring goals, but I don't recall his attacking contribution enough to fit the role he's playing here.

He's less of an obvious attacking threat than his counterpart - more balanced, as you say. But he's an accomplished wingback, not someone who has been forced into the role. He has a good cross on him too, so he can offer something similar (albeit not as cutting edge) as his counterpart.

Motta-Albertini comes across a bit static as neither were known for their pace. A burst of acceleration from Del Piero would be hard to handle for either of them.

I won't argue with that. But I have three half-decent defenders behind them - Del Piero won't get loose on goal by bursting past the pair of them.

Chester's attack is outstanding, but I think it'll lack the support, both wide and middle (above comments) that may blunt it.

Fair enough - I think they'll get the required support from out wide myself. Realistically, this isn't a match where I expect my attackers to completely run riot - it's more a question of being able to grab a deciding goal.
 
Don't you rate Alonso? I would've picked him ahead of Albertini myself, but I can understand if it's your personal preference.

The likes of Ocwirk could've worked, although he would've cost 20m and I can understand the lack of desire of picking players with almost no footage of them.

Yep - I wanted to avoid old timers and/or no-footage boys this time around. Been there, done that - so to say. Will probably be there - and do it - again, but not in this draft.

Alonso might have worked, certainly - but I rate Albertini highly, and I don't consider Alonso an upgrade on him myself. Possibly more of a vote puller, though.

Generally, you could say that I didn't want to get involved in any bidding wars over a midfielder - as I had to prioritize other positions. So, that played its part too. Clearly, Albertini isn't the unquestionably best alternative in the pool - but he is a good fit for me, and draft wise (in terms of draft tactics, if you will) I think he makes sense too.

Might add that Motta has to be considered here as well: Whoever I went for had to play alongside Motta - and that makes Albertini's extreme quality (his passing range) all the more important. I could have easily fielded two top notch midfielders of some description behind Charlton - without having this passing range thing going as what I call an extreme quality, but Motta is a water carrier at this party, he can't be sold as anything more fancy than that. And so you need some kind of factor elsewhere, I think - and I feel that A's (specialist) ability to find those runners is such a factor.

Probably a debatable logic on my part - but there it is. As soon as I got Motta, I started thinking along those lines - and that shaped my subsequent drafting.
 
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chester is one of the favorites for me so its a pretty clean vote for him. Fantastic team and i like everything about it, defence and attack are fantastic, midfield is perfect for Sir Bobby to shine + proven wonderful partnership with Law. The only question mark is above Forsters ability to play on the left of the back 3...

marty and tiger on the hand have some nice bits but i dont know, something doesnt feel right there. Varane is the obvious weakness and facing the attack of Law and Greaves.....dont like wingbacks, think they were screwed a little with legacy player and Lahm is not a wingback, on neither side.
Im also not sure about the midfield, from my memory and knowledge Tiger was a b2b player or a complete midfielder and not the one who would you use in holding role. Attack is epic, love the Del Piero - Van Basten combo. In the auction process i thought you are going overboard with Del Piero pick but now i know why.
 
I agree with the comments about Chester's midfield being a bit too static. Can't see either Albertini or Motta being able to cope with the burst of pace from Overath or Del Piero....and if they do follow them then Xavi has acres of space in the middle to play those clever balls through.

When our team has the ball, Effenberg will push forward, allowing Hierro to become the DM. This will provide extra steel in the middle of the pitch and enable Effenberg to have a more creative role.
 
chester is one of the favorites for me so its a pretty clean vote for him. Fantastic team and i like everything about it, defence and attack are fantastic, midfield is perfect for Sir Bobby to shine + proven wonderful partnership with Law. The only question mark is above Forsters ability to play on the left of the back 3...

marty and tiger on the hand have some nice bits but i dont know, something doesnt feel right there. Varane is the obvious weakness and facing the attack of Law and Greaves.....dont like wingbacks, think they were screwed a little with legacy player and Lahm is not a wingback, on neither side.
Im also not sure about the midfield, from my memory and knowledge Tiger was a b2b player or a complete midfielder and not the one who would you use in holding role. Attack is epic, love the Del Piero - Van Basten combo. In the auction process i thought you are going overboard with Del Piero pick but now i know why.

Del Piero and MVB is why we were bidding so high for him. Have Kaka on the bench but Del Piero works better for my mind.

Varane needed to be part of a back three to help cover his inexperience. When he first joined Madrid he was excellent and whilst he might lack the awareness of an older, wiser defender he has one of the best in the game at reading potential threats to help him through.

I can't see Chester's side winning any aerial battles from set pieces, something which certainly gives us an upper hand at both ends of the pitch I argue.

Whilst Effenberg is shown behind Xavi he should not be automatically considered a holding midfielder. He has MUCH more to offer the team than that and his strength and work rate in the midfield will allow Overath to attack which he will do extremely well.
 
Don't you rate Alonso? I would've picked him ahead of Albertini myself, but I can understand if it's your personal preference.

The likes of Ocwirk could've worked, although he would've cost 20m and I can understand the lack of desire of picking players with almost no footage of them.

Motta is good enough to run the game. I'd have gone for a more all-action style player to complement Motta. Netto, Simeone, Dunga, Gattuso, Cambiasso etc would all have made it more solid and complimentary.
 
Motta is good enough to run the game. I'd have gone for a more all-action style player to complement Motta. Netto, Simeone, Dunga, Gattuso, Cambiasso etc would all have made it more solid and complimentary.

Motta good enough to run a game with Overath, Xavi, Effenberg? Motta is a solid player and he has done well against teams like Barca, but when Inter played Barca.. Iniesta was missing, so it was Xavi alone in midfield with Keita and Busquets for support (both less gifted going forwards). Xavi is surrounded by two world class midfielders in their own right in this game and I personally think those three can run rings around Motta and Albertini, but Chester's defence is that solid that it keeps him in the game and gives that 'ok'ish midfield the solidity to keep grinding away and try to keep tabs on them.
 
Varane needed to be part of a back three to help cover his inexperience. When he first joined Madrid he was excellent and whilst he might lack the awareness of an older, wiser defender he has one of the best in the game at reading potential threats to help him through.

Whilst Effenberg is shown behind Xavi he should not be automatically considered a holding midfielder. He has MUCH more to offer the team than that and his strength and work rate in the midfield will allow Overath to attack which he will do extremely well.

The thing with Varane is, he isnt actually that good. His current ability is pretty average and the reason why everyone raves about him and rightly so is the talent and potential, two things that dont matter here. So back 3 or not, he is by far the weakest player on the pitch in a very important role against 2 superb players.

Just read your tactics again, sure in possession that would work with Hierro acting like a DM and Tiger moving into midfield but still, im not sure if he can play as the most defensive player in midfield. Maybe @Balu or someone can help about this issue, was he ever played in that role?
And about that Hierro thing, when your team lose the ball chesters plan is to attack with quick counter attacks with Sir Bobby bombing down the middle, i reckon there will be a fair share of situations where Hierro wont make in time to form that back 3 so that will expose Varane even more.
 
Motta good enough to run a game with Overath, Xavi, Effenberg? Motta is a solid player and he has done well against teams like Barca, but when Inter played Barca.. Iniesta was missing, so it was Xavi alone in midfield with Keita and Busquets for support (both less gifted going forwards). Xavi is surrounded by two world class midfielders in their own right in this game and I personally think those three can run rings around Motta and Albertini, but Chester's defence is that solid that it keeps him in the game and gives that 'ok'ish midfield the solidity to keep grinding away and try to keep tabs on them.

No, I was just analyzing Chester's team and my opinions were on who could be a better partner to Motta than Albertini. It was not a match comparison with your team.

But then you need to explain why Overath-Xavi is better than Overath-Netzer which was deemed unworkable.