The defence

Julian Denny

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Joined
Jan 15, 2002
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South Africa
A worrying feature of recent games is the performance of our back four. Again last night the defending was abysmal for the goal with Silvestre sucked into the middle and then nobody picking up Thompson for the goal. Obviously JOS was unavailable but he has to be an automatic stater when fit. I think without doubt Wes and Mickey are our best cente back pairing. Rio looks unsteady at times and it seems we're going to have to wait for him to reach his true potential, which I'm sure he will in due course. That's not to say he isn't a very good player already but naturally he needs time to acclimatise at OT. The idea of Blanc playing again in our defence is retrogressive. Yes we all know what he was and the qualities which in part he still may possess but he's not the answer. He still reads the game well but leaves space behind him and is slow to react to situations leaving the defence vulnerable. If Fergie has plans to play him again, which I'm sure he does, then expect us to leak goals.
The need to rotate is understood but I think Fergie should try to keep a settled back four as much as possible. Gary, Wes, Mickey and John are the best but if Rio is to be played and I admit it's odd not to play someone who's cost 30m, then let's hope at the very least Fergie allows the partnership with Wes to develop, ie by playing them together regularly. Bringing in Blanc from time to time won't help that.
 
The defence was great last night,
what are you on about? <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

The goal was scored by a late running midfielder into the box.
Gary N was marking 2 men, the central defence was drawn towards the ball.
If its anyones fault it has to be a midfielder, but which one?

Beckham was his natural marker, but he cant be expected to be all over the place.
P Nev was the defensive anchor man and could be expected to pick up loose midfielders.
Veron, was perhaps the nearest midfielder to DT and should maybe have picked him up.

Personally i blamb no one for the goal,
it was a good cross
a good run by DT
a great finish
 
it was a good goal murt but you can be damn sure Fergie will be blaming someone this morning for it. Someone didnt pick up Thompson. Gary Neville should never have been left in a posistion where he's trying hard to mark 2 men.
Wes was sucked out towards the wing, Rio was ball-watching, Mickey was out of posistion. Like you say someone from the midfield should have been tracking back.
Im sure someones got a rollicking from SAF
 
It was a good goal by Wes was ball watching when the cross came over, Mickey went to challenge and Gaz got sucked in, Rio cant mark everybody. There were a few late interventions as well eg Mickey taking the ball off Cole's chest in the 1st half. I dont thing the pitch is helping but both teams have to play on it so its not an excuse. I think our distribution from the back is woeful at the moment, especially from Wes. if he's passing the ball along the back 4 he's fine but as soon as he tries to deliver over the half way line he gives it away and the pressure is straight back on the defence again. I think Leeds must be laughing all the way to the bank for getting £30m for Rio, he's good but he's not that good and I hate to say it but it looks like he's unsettled a defence that was doing well without him but then you cant really leave a £30m player on the bench. There's also no midfield cover in from of the CB's, Phil dives in everywhere and Veron just doesn't takle and with PS playing off RVN he's not back covering. Its nights like last night where we miss Keano or even Nicky, someone who can put their foot on the ball and retain possesion and not have to try and hit 50/60 yard balls to no-one every time we get possesion back.
 
Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>it was a good goal murt but you can be damn sure Fergie will be blaming someone this morning for it. Someone didnt pick up Thompson. Gary Neville should never have been left in a posistion where he's trying hard to mark 2 men.
Wes was sucked out towards the wing, Rio was ball-watching, Mickey was out of posistion. Like you say someone from the midfield should have been tracking back.
Im sure someones got a rollicking from SAF</strong><hr></blockquote>

Someone, but not a definite individual.
If i had to blamb someone id could only narrow it down to the three midfielders named above.

If i were Fergie id bollock the midfield for not holding tight for a few minutes and riding the Blackburn storm after going a goal down.
Thats where Keane is missed, he would have have tucked the whole midfield back, controlled the situation and then we would have dominated the last 25 minutes like we did last night but with a goal advantage.
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If we are going to settle for a back four, why not settle for Wes and Rio partnership in the centre now? I agree Rio hasn't peformed up to his standard and expectation so far, but he need time to settle after joining a new club, and the injury problem he got this season didn't help him. IMO the back four of John-Wes-Rio-Micky will be one of the best defence in Europe in a few years, so we should start to settle for it now.
 
Our defence looked the best it has for years with Brown and Silvestre in the centre.

It wasn't broke, but still needed fixing apparently.

The whole momentum of the team that was flying a few weeks ago has been disrupted.
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>The defence was great last night,
what are you on about? <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't agree. It was a bad goal to concede. We've also conceded sloppy goals against Portsmoutn which didn't matter, Middlesbrough and Blackburn (PL) which did, in case you hadn't noticed. The solidity, pace and general consistentcy of the Mickey/ Wes partnership is missed and it's going to be a problem unless Fergie reverts back to it or Rio settles down quickly with Wes and vice versa.
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Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>A worrying feature of recent games is the performance of our back four. Again last night the defending was abysmal for the goal with Silvestre sucked into the middle and then nobody picking up Thompson for the goal. Obviously JOS was unavailable but he has to be an automatic stater when fit. I think without doubt Wes and Mickey are our best cente back pairing. Rio looks unsteady at times and it seems we're going to have to wait for him to reach his true potential, which I'm sure he will in due course. That's not to say he isn't a very good player already but naturally he needs time to acclimatise at OT. The idea of Blanc playing again in our defence is retrogressive. Yes we all know what he was and the qualities which in part he still may possess but he's not the answer. He still reads the game well but leaves space behind him and is slow to react to situations leaving the defence vulnerable. If Fergie has plans to play him again, which I'm sure he does, then expect us to leak goals.
The need to rotate is understood but I think Fergie should try to keep a settled back four as much as possible. Gary, Wes, Mickey and John are the best but if Rio is to be played and I admit it's odd not to play someone who's cost 30m, then let's hope at the very least Fergie allows the partnership with Wes to develop, ie by playing them together regularly. Bringing in Blanc from time to time won't help that.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is possibly the most ridiculous post I've seen on this site! The defence has been magnificent lately! Nobody tracked Thompson's run from midfield and thats how the goal was scored!!!

<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
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The defence wasn't great last night, but it wasn't bad either, tho the goal came as a result of a brief moment of very bad defending.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>hmm..... the defence is good, however its not great at marking crosses.....or corners.

With Blanc around it was more organised.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then it has trouble dealing with pace.
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We've never looked more solid or more organised than when we had Silvestre and Brown in the centre.
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>A worrying feature of recent games is the performance of our back four. Again last night the defending was abysmal for the goal with Silvestre sucked into the middle and then nobody picking up Thompson for the goal. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I noticed that, but apart from the goal I thought the defence did ok. Certainly not 'abysmal'.

<strong>
Rio looks unsteady at times and it seems we're going to have to wait for him to reach his true potential, which I'm sure he will in due course. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Rio looked solid last night IMO

<strong>
The idea of Blanc playing again in our defence is retrogressive. Yes we all know what he was and the qualities which in part he still may possess but he's not the answer. He still reads the game well but leaves space behind him and is slow to react to situations leaving the defence vulnerable. If Fergie has plans to play him again, which I'm sure he does, then expect us to leak goals.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Blanc is a solid defender, so long as he doesn't have to run. His pace is what lets him down, which is to be expected at his age.
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There was another time in last night's game when Silvestre had strayed into the centre and with a little bad luck Yorke or Cole, I think it was Yorke, could have been found in acres of space on the right hand side of the area and had a good opportunity to put them 2-1 up. I think switching certain players between CB and FB isn't the best idea personally. I would stick with the following if all fit : G Neville, Ferdinand, Silvestre and O'Shea. Wes I would rotate in to the squad every few games for either Silvestre or Ferdinand. I never thought I'd say it but I think Silvestre belongs at CB and I think it's obvious he not only prefers playing there but also that he often thinks he's playing there when in fact he's in as LB. The key to avoiding conceding these sloppy goals, which undoubtedly some of the last few have been, is a back four as unchanged as possible match after match.
 
Originally posted by Diego Forlans Headband:
<strong>

This is possibly the most ridiculous post I've seen on this site! The defence has been magnificent lately! Nobody tracked Thompson's run from midfield and thats how the goal was scored!!!

<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Apart from your's that is. I do not waste my time writing ridiculous posts as you so quaintly put it. I suggest you have a careful look at that goal again if you can and you'll see I am right. It's not about the defence playing well or not for the whole match, it's about letting in soft and vital goals as has been the case in some recent matches.
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Originally posted by blythy:
<strong>

Blanc is a solid defender, so long as he doesn't have to run. His pace is what lets him down, which is to be expected at his age.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bit of a disadvantage I would think !!

I think you misconstrued my comment about the defence. I didn't say it was abysmal per se, only abysmal in respect of the goal itself. I did not want to convey that the defence was playing badly overall which patently it isn't. It just doesn't look as good in the last few games and it has cost us accordingly.

I agree Rio was alright last night but I don't think he's looked consistently steady in most of the games he's played so far. He's had disruptions for injuries of course and I have no doubt he'll be great when he's settled down as he has all the attributes.

I simply wanted to point out that since the "break up" of the Wes/Mickey partnership we don't look quite so rock solid at the back and this has cost us a few goals, which if we continue to concede will prove to be a problem in us challenging for trophies. It's a quandry for Fergie but perhaps he should reinstate that partnership once JOS is fit.
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Relax, Julian. They're gonna be fine back there. Give them time and you'll see. Nothing to worry about. :)
 
Julian Denny is right.MU best pair for CDs are Brown and Ferninand and positions RB and LB are just perfect for Silvestre end G.Neville.Blanc is good but old player and at this moment he can t do his best for MU.
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>
Beckham was his natural marker, but he cant be expected to be all over the place.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

He can't be all over the place, but if he IS someone's natural marker, can't he be expected to be near that someone?
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Our defence looked the best it has for years with Brown and Silvestre in the centre.

It wasn't broke, but still needed fixing apparently.

The whole momentum of the team that was flying a few weeks ago has been disrupted.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hit the nail on the head
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to please everybody i guess we need 3 center backs.

one to have pace, one to head the ball well, and one to mark out forwards. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

come on people, we have a young defence here.. the only way for them to get better is to make mistakes and learn from 'em.

we've had a great defence the past month or so.. and the problem now is to score more goals.. the defence is in great shape and only need minor adjustment to get things right.. no need to file a complaint for it.
 
My opinion on all our defenses

Gaz a local fighter who adds commitment and heart to our backline. But he lacks of consistency and his mistakes (often childish) makes you wonder whether he is at Manutd’s level. It’s a fact that Gaz lacks of physical presence and really suffer when facing a world class player. ( Verdict: A good option but not an automatic choice in the team)

P Nev: Add the same commitment of his brother and may be better on the attacking side, but is weak often childish on the defensive side. Philip has flair but though he may give you some rare world class performance it is obvious that he cannot command any position at OT ( Verdict he will not damage us but he can never win a regular place at OT and selling him may be a better option)

John O Shea What you want from a defender, John has it. The Irish international is one of the best defenders I had ever seen at OT. SAF is right in playing him at the flanks to gain him more experience. ( First teamer )

Silvestre Is he Maldini in disguise? Pacey, athletic and equally talented Mikeal is Manutd Best defender. I prefer him in the heart of the defense though were he cannot be caught out of position ( The Frenchman rare but only weakness) (First teamer)

Wes Brown another excellent defender who need more experience. Wesley is fast, athletic and techniqually able but is yet a bit too raw to trust him in the heart of the defense. I would handle him the right back were his talent can
Fully developed

Laurent Blanc Manutd most experienced defender and a living legend. But at 37 years age is catching up with Laurent and I doubt whether he is Manutd’s best option. I would introduce him only when the team need an extra defender (playing as a sweeper in a 5 men defense)

Rio Ferdinand It’s a fact that Rio is a world class defender who once settled in he will prove crucial in our backline. ( verdict first teamer)

Tierney: I haven’t seen him in action much but winning the reserves player of the year ( with John O Shea) and scoring a wonder with Crewe is enough to earn my trust (verdict should be given more space in our team)

My ideal backline Brown--------Rio-------Silvestre---------Oshea
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>The defence was great last night,
what are you on about? <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Great? With Rio ball-watching? What are you babbling about?
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there were times in the recent past when our main discussion theme was precisely our Dodgy Defence

maybe those times are back again ?
 
It not easy to decide what our best back line is. At the moment Wes is probably our best centre back. He's been fantastic our the past month. If it was n't for his clearance the other night we would have been in deep shit. He also made a fantastic covering sliding tackle in the box a couple of weeks ago when their striker looked clean through.
 
Originally posted by fortyseven:
<strong>

He can't be all over the place, but if he IS someone's natural marker, can't he be expected to be near that someone?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not really. A team like Man. United places much more emphasis on attacking and will be caught in these situations frequently during a match.
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