The current squad with a new manager

Bastian

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If the hierarchy really does favour a more dominant brand of football it seems to me quite obvious that Bruno at #10 is far from ideal, but then again, the same hierarchy caved into his demands without the slightest need to do so. So maybe the hierarchy isn't as on it as we'd like to think.

A few people keep suggesting three at the back, but we neither have the wing backs, and it removes our best attacking players (Garnacho and Amad). I'd love to see us going forward with a 433 formation utilising Casemiro as a box to box midfielder with any of Mainoo/Eriksen/Mount as the ball carrier/creator, covered by Ugarte shielding the defense. I think this will immediately translate to better ball retention, better defensive shape, though of course it may lead to less chance creation, which is really where the style of play comes in which is a head coach's responsibility.

I'd also hope for much quicker passing / fewer touches in our build up, which obviously requires better team movement. Every time Maguire is playing I count how many times he touches the ball before he passes and how long he holds onto the ball, and it is creeping into Martinez' game too.

What do people want to see under a new temporary manager?

I for one still favour performances over results, working on perfecting a style of play over pragmatism, so I hope there is actually a coherent vision within the footballing structure.
 
Football is a simple sport. I'm convinced the right manager with the desire, tactics, passion and drive to put an arm round the players and motivate them to go out and play to their strengths will do well wih this current squad. We've seen under SAF and other coaches at other clubs that you don't need 11-16 world class players to achieve things in football, you need to be motivated and dedicated to the cause. We've not seen that in years here.
 
We need at least one top striker. Fergie was successful for having up to four at times. I think we will struggle for goals under any new manager with two novice strikers in Zirkzee and Hojlund. Rashford and Garnacho will never score enough goals from the wings and we havent got a lampard type in midfield.
 
I hate it but looking at our squad, I’d go a back 3. Focus on making ourselves hard to beat, and using our pace on transition.

Most of our wingers are actually forwards pushed wide, and none of our strikers actually suit playing as a lone 9.

Assuming everyone’s fit, something like this;

Onana
Yoro - de Ligt - Martinez
Mazraoui - Casemiro - Bruno - Shaw
Amad
Hojlund - Garnacho​
 
The new hierarchy have shown no signs of being better than the previous one yet from a footballing perspective at least.

The decision to keep ten hag was dim. The signings this year still seem heavily influence by ten hag, a manager they looked at replacing jn the summer. They also just seem a bit odd - surely investing in a striker who is a poor goalscorer and a slow centre back isn't sensible given martinez is slow and we lack goals throughout the team
 
We've got players who are good with the ball, who aren't afraid of it. They're being hindered by a system that clearly has little regard for the importance of a functional midfield, and wants to send almost everything down the wings like a 90s tribute act.

Good players adapt. The rest won't be missed
 
Can’t always be managers faults. I’m 19st fat as feck I’m awaiting surgery on my right ankle my back is troubled but it is a fact I would make more effort than the majority of the high paid arseholes
 
I think we should go for a manager that prefers a back 3. Alonso, Amorim, Inzaghi. We have the defence for it. People mention the wingers we’ve got but there not wingers that can’t be dropped. There not wide players that gets us 15+ a season. A lot of teams in Europe are successful with that formation, sporting, Inter, Leverkusen.
 
Good luck to them. It's not very good even after £600m spent on it.
 
The manager needs to go but let’s not overrate our squad.

Our midfield is an absolute joke and our attackers can’t seem to score to save their lives.

We don’t have a functioning left back and our keeper is highly suspect.

Of the current squad I rate Amad and Mazroaui, not sure about any of the others. Mainoo I think will come good, but the hype is absurd around him and not backed up by performances. Garnacho possibly as well but his ego far outweighs his output at the moment.
 
"What do people want to see under a new temporary manager?"

tactical competence, a team that isn't easy to play through, a team that is hard to beat

Just want to feel something
 
I have no idea what our best team is. Would probably agree with some posters that say that centre back is our strongest position and just being a bit more conservative under a new manager might steady the ship. The attack just looks so blunt though.
 
I’ve told you guys for 5 years now, as long as we have Bruno at the centre of our team it will not work. Now if we do not make the right moves, I’m not guaranteeing we will make it work without him either, however, while he is there, and propped up as the central figure of this team - it is going absolutely nowhere.
 
berbasloth4 said:
Can’t always be managers faults. I’m 19st fat as feck I’m awaiting surgery on my right ankle my back is troubled but it is a fact I would make more effort than the majority of the high paid arseholes
Click to expand...
It can't, but in this case it is. Nobody asked him to sign a team full of Ajax players who got done off Spurs and add a few youngsters that turn out better than his shitey fecking signings.
 
We should get Ole back. This squad suits him perfectly. We need a motivator. This will be OGS first real test.
 
I'd honestly take that Luton manager at this point, Rob Edwards was it?
 
Desperately want ten hag to succeed and argued his case in May, but on the basis that things looked better this season. It just hasnt happened.

The only positive is that this season is far from over. If we're being honest, most of us dont believe we'd get more than 70-75pts this season, and hopefulyl win another trophy. Id like to win in europe I think its good experience for what is a young team in parts. I think a new manager can achieve this and still make this a meaningful season.

So I do think its time for a change Im afraid. I think we have lots of good players and there's something just fundamentally not right. No matter who we swap in a certain position, looks the same as the player they replace.

Very simply I want to know roughly what we're doing each week. I want us to behave like a big team. I dont want to expect to draw at palace and lose at brighton.

Tuchel, Nagelsmann, possibly even Potter will get more from this team
 
Big difference from previous years is that I actually like our squad. Put Hojlund in and perhaps play Amad/Zirkzee/Eriksen/Mount in the #10, and I think we have a decent team, with some good options off the bench as well.
 
Bastian said:
If the hierarchy really does favour a more dominant brand of football it seems to me quite obvious that Bruno at #10 is far from ideal, but then again, the same hierarchy caved into his demands without the slightest need to do so. So maybe the hierarchy isn't as on it as we'd like to think.

A few people keep suggesting three at the back, but we neither have the wing backs, and it removes our best attacking players (Garnacho and Amad). I'd love to see us going forward with a 433 formation utilising Casemiro as a box to box midfielder with any of Mainoo/Eriksen/Mount as the ball carrier/creator, covered by Ugarte shielding the defense. I think this will immediately translate to better ball retention, better defensive shape, though of course it may lead to less chance creation, which is really where the style of play comes in which is a head coach's responsibility.

I'd also hope for much quicker passing / fewer touches in our build up, which obviously requires better team movement. Every time Maguire is playing I count how many times he touches the ball before he passes and how long he holds onto the ball, and it is creeping into Martinez' game too.

What do people want to see under a new temporary manager?

I for one still favour performances over results, working on perfecting a style of play over pragmatism, so I hope there is actually a coherent vision within the footballing structure.
Click to expand...

The whole Bruno thing was complicated, I think. I agree he doesn't have the technical profile to be the centrepiece of a possession heavy side competing at the top. People saying he would thrive at City, Bayern and so on...I just don't think they would ever have signed him in the first place. He can conjure up moments with the best of them, has incredible stamina etc., but he is such an awkward player. However, I think they saw it as prudent to signal stability with him going forward for now in order to focus on addressing other areas of the squad. Not saying this was the right decision, but if they had allowed the uncertainty around him to linger it could have created more doubt around the club going forward this summer as a whole.

I'm not really tactically savvy, but I think we should stick with a back four and the 4-2-3-1. I would also really like to see some actual wing play with overlapping full backs instead of them inverting all the time. Whether or not any of Rashford, Garnacho or Amad are actually good enough to lead the attack in the long run, I still think they are our best bet for generating reliable threat right now. So we should try to accommodate that by getting them on the ball with options instead of asking them to do double take ons, when they aren't passing it backwards. Get Højlund in the box and Mount or Zirkzee in the 10.

Midfield is difficult. Just so unbalanced in terms of how the spread of reliable ball progression/retention, energy and defensive qualities are distributed in the squad. I would like to see Kobbie given a rest, but unless he is injured I don't see how we can. Mad how much we're relying on someone so raw still. So him and Ugarte at the base with a lot progression in the initial phase having to come from Onana and the centerbacks with a higher line. If Zirkzee or Mount plays, I think they could add options by dropping a bit deeper and helping to combine up field with Kobbie. Out of possession that setup has decent mobility, pressing and energy as well.

Anything to avoid the way we were playing against Twente. Trying to combine through the center with quick passing in tight spaces...we do not have the squad for that kind of game plan.
 
I disagree we have a good squad. We continue to buy the wrong players. Look at Spurs. They want to play a high line. They get Van der ven. Fast as fk. Excellent one on one. They want the wingers to push up get past the wingers and cross. They get Porro and Udogie. They want to control the midfield get a playmaker. get Madison. They need a striker that occupies the defenders and is a bit of a fox in the box for those wingers and fullbacks crossing in, plus a striker that can press, get Solanke. Everyone laughed at these signings and on paper they are not better than our signings but they fit the system they are trying to play.

Now here's us. We want to play a high line. We get De ligt. We want to be the best transition team and press but we get Casemiro, Eriksen. We want to control the midfield we get Ugarte. We need more goals we get a 21 year old with 9 goals in Italy. They we get zirkzee who us a complete different striker. Why? Are we just changing systems? Plus he can't score for sht. Then there's the whole Mount situation. Where does he fit? Even Mazraoui. Excellent player but he's not exactly attacking bombing up and down the wing. Plus signing him just fkd up our player of the season in Dalot. It's not as if we didn't know Dalot was not the best LB. We saw it last season. Then we have Onana that was bought to play out from the back but the rest of the team can't. And on and on. After buying all these players for Ten Haag you would think they all at least fit a system but no. They look like a bunch of signings from 5 different managers. Which is weird since they are all Ten Haags ex players.

I struggle to see how you put these players together in a cohesive system. Sure a half decent manager will do better but being an actual good team and by that I mean 4th place is going to take some doing.
 
Remember how we played in Ole's first match against Cardiff - all movement, quick passing, interchanging, scoring 5 (or was it 6).

Can we just do that?

Not hard to instruct the players to move around so they can receive the ball and then move so the receiver has an option.

Also not hard to realise we need to play three in the middle and make sure they're all close to each other. Bruno can play disciplined for Portugal so force him to do the same.
 
Onana is fine. The new manager will play him and be satisfied if he maintains this seasons form.

Full backs- Dalot, Maz, Shaw, Malacia,

Dalot and Maz are good enough. We need a new left back or two and to get rid of both Shaw and Malacia.

CBs- I am worried about the pace of De Ligt too but If we can sell Maguire and or Lindelof and get someone in then Yoro, Martinez, De Ligt and a new signing is good enough cover.

Midfield- We have Casemiro, Bruno, Eriksen who all need to be replaced. Mainoo, Mount and Ugarte is an ok base to build off but lots of quality needed

Attack- Amad, Garnacho, Rasmus and Zirkzee is good young core. Rashford and Antony need to be replaced with quality.


If the new manager drops Bruno and Rashford and buys two quality replacements and we also get a new left back then the squad is actually in decent shape. Let say we get a midfielder like Wirtz and an attacker like Williams:

Onana

Dalot/ Maz De Ligt/Yoro Martinez/Yoro LB


Ugarte Mainoo Mount/ new signing


Amad Rasmus Garnacho/new signing
 
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The current setup simply isn’t working. On paper, we’re playing a classic 4-2-3-1, but in practice, our attack shifts into more of a 3-2-1-4 formation. Dalot steps into midfield support, Mainoo operates almost as a #10, and Bruno pushes forward, often playing like a second striker with free movement.

The issues are obvious and boil down to three key points:
  1. We struggle to play out from the back.
  2. We lack ball retention in the final third.
  3. There’s too much space between players.
As a result, two things happen: First, we’re forced into quick transitions and risky passes. Second, when those passes are intercepted, the opposition has too much space, and our players are too far apart to press effectively

Assuming we don’t want to revert to Ole’s style—sitting deep and relying on counter-attacks—it’s clear we need to adjust our setup. While last season’s league position was affected by injuries, it’s alarming that we’re still trying to implement a style that only worked for three months. During that brief spell, Casemiro was covering ground for three players, and Rashford was in top form. Things that doesn't seem likely to happen again.

We need a tactical shift. A back three with wing-backs could be an option, but given the current injury situation, it’s not a realistic solution right now. Instead, I believe we should transition to a more traditional 4-3-3, with the three midfielders playing much closer together to tighten the space and maintain better control. Also, when we press, the whole team need to be more aggressive and compact, if not, our press it is more cosmetic than effective.

Proposed Lineup:

Onana
Mazraoui – De Ligt – Martinez – Dalot
Midfielder 1 – Ugarte – Mainoo
Winger 1 – Højlund – Winger 2

If we aim to become a more possession-based team, players like Eriksen, Mount, Amad, and Antony are ideal. However, if we want to play with more verticality, Casemiro, Bruno, Rashford, and Garnacho should be prioritized.

But first, we need to decide what kind of team we want to be.
 
Should probably focus on the next manager first tbh.

Us sounding out managers in the summer, deciding the one we've got already is the best option, then potentially going back to the same managers we spoke with 2/3 months ago wouldn't exactly instill confidence in our next manager.

We're in a really tough place right now.
 
We have glaring weakness and unfortunately even after the massive spend under ETH we still look a little far away from having a squad that can play champagne football. We are short of good players in all three departments. Any new manager will need to play in a mid-block to get consistent results out of this bunch. I don't think any other style of football is compatible with the squad of players we have currently, especially the defense and the midfield. There are some good tools to play front foot football in the future, but for now we need to accept the reality.
 
UpWithRivers said:
I disagree we have a good squad. We continue to buy the wrong players. Look at Spurs. They want to play a high line. They get Van der ven. Fast as fk. Excellent one on one. They want the wingers to push up get past the wingers and cross. They get Porro and Udogie. They want to control the midfield get a playmaker. get Madison. They need a striker that occupies the defenders and is a bit of a fox in the box for those wingers and fullbacks crossing in, plus a striker that can press, get Solanke. Everyone laughed at these signings and on paper they are not better than our signings but they fit the system they are trying to play.

Now here's us. We want to play a high line. We get De ligt. We want to be the best transition team and press but we get Casemiro, Eriksen. We want to control the midfield we get Ugarte. We need more goals we get a 21 year old with 9 goals in Italy. They we get zirkzee who us a complete different striker. Why? Are we just changing systems? Plus he can't score for sht. Then there's the whole Mount situation. Where does he fit? Even Mazraoui. Excellent player but he's not exactly attacking bombing up and down the wing. Plus signing him just fkd up our player of the season in Dalot. It's not as if we didn't know Dalot was not the best LB. We saw it last season. Then we have Onana that was bought to play out from the back but the rest of the team can't. And on and on. After buying all these players for Ten Haag you would think they all at least fit a system but no. They look like a bunch of signings from 5 different managers. Which is weird since they are all Ten Haags ex players.

I struggle to see how you put these players together in a cohesive system. Sure a half decent manager will do better but being an actual good team and by that I mean 4th place is going to take some doing.
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Yep. It's a squad with no outstanding strength whatsoever that you can hang your hat on in comparison to our 'rivals'.

There were posts mocking how average Spurs front 3 looked before the game yesterday. Laughable. Solanke would be comfortably our best forward. As for Werner vs Rashford there's really not a lot in it, he's done. We don't have any serious goalscorers.

I'm baffled by what the plan is for a short and slow hyper aggressive CB pairing in the PL. We can't play a high line that's for sure.

The best we can hope for is someone coming in and doing the basics right in an unsophisticated system. Even then I think the very best we could hope for is 5th.
 
The squads not terrible. Defence is pretty good overall. Midfield there's plenty of options but it's probably slightly unbalanced in terms of too many attacking midfielders and not enough holding or box to box types.

Attack is a big issue. There's no goals in that lot. Rasmus is the only goalscorer we have but let's be honest, if he was one on one with the keeper you wouldn't bet your house on him finishing it would you? That's not to say Garnacho, Amad, Zirkzee etc. couldn't come good under a new manager.
 
————————Onana
—————-De Ligt—-Martinez
Mazraoui———-Dalot—————Shaw
—————-Mount———Mainoo
Garnacho——————————-Rashford
————————Fernandes
 
Get rid:
Luke Shaw
Rashford
Bruno
Maguire (not going to suit going forward but good player)
Lindelof
Onana
Antony

Build with this

Garnacho (New #9) Amad
New AM
Mainoo Ugarte
New LB, Martinez, De Ligt or Yoro, Mazzy
New Keeper

New am? No idea at this point.
New striker? Evan Ferguson?
New Keeper? Diogo from Porto?
New LB? No idea
 
friendlytramp said:
————————Onana
—————-De Ligt—-Martinez
Mazraoui———-Dalot—————Shaw
—————-Mount———Mainoo
Garnacho——————————-Rashford
————————Fernandes
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Would love to see this for a couple of games
 
Leftback99 said:
Yep. It's a squad with no outstanding strength whatsoever that you can hang your hat on in comparison to our 'rivals'.

There were posts mocking how average Spurs front 3 looked before the game yesterday. Laughable. Solanke would be comfortably our best forward. As for Werner vs Rashford there's really not a lot in it, he's done. We don't have any serious goalscorers.

I'm baffled by what the plan is for a short and slow hyper aggressive CB pairing in the PL. We can't play a high line that's for sure.

The best we can hope for is someone coming in and doing the basics right in an unsophisticated system. Even then I think the very best we could hope for is 5th.
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Ok we need to stem the hyperbole, yesterday was one of the worst performances in the last 12 years but to think that Timo Werner is better than a all firing Rashford is absurd, put Marcus in that spurs team with the level of creativity and he scores 15 EPL games, how many times was Werner going backwards to help his left back, hardly ever?

Our deficiencies are mainly based on ETH inept ability to create a formation and a plan to nullify the opposition with a plan A, plan B and plan C or D of the first two plans don’t work before and during the game.

Starting Amad on the right, M Mount on the Left wing with Rasmus or Marcus as thr 9 would have prevented their CB’s pushing so high Amad and Mount would have made the half way and middle third a fair battle with 5 against five in midfield, made the game tight and the pace of Rasmus or Marcus would have kept both spurs Cb’s honest.

Playing a one paced Zirkzee just gave the Micky Van de Veen and Romero tbe opportunity to light up a cigar and just stroll round the pitch, VDV one of the quicker players in the EPL knew he could give Zirkzee at least 3 yards and still catch him.

My point is our coach is tactically clueless, he doesn’t prepare the team correctly and when the players realise everything he says to them is horses…t, they switch off and just give up looking at others within the team to blame.

This coach must be sacked instantly, I’d give RVN the job but only to Xmas, I do believe that while RVN is not quite experienced enough to be given the job, he has enough credit as a coach to be a pretty good Interim coach. I’m basically saying that ETH just doesn’t understand how to adapt, how to change, how to Evolve and he never will!

He’s beyond stubborn and now his tenure is beyond redemption, we just need to restart the season while there is still enough games to change direction, I can assure you the moment he goes is the moment that players like Rashford, Garnaucho, Hojlund and others start to improve dramatically.

So Forget saying that Timo Werner and Brendan Johnstone are better than Garnaucho, Amad and Rashford, they are not however Solanki is a better all round centre forward than both Rasmus and Zirkzee however he’s also 5 years older than one and 3 years older and more experienced than the other, the reality of yesterday’s game was that Bentacur, Maddison and kulveski are miles better as a midfield unit than Ugarte, Mainoo and Bruno and that concerns me massively with the money ETH has spent?

However would they be better than Casemiro, Ugarte and Mainoo/a fit M Mount as the 8/10, I’m not so sure!

Time for a new coach to say no player starts on name or reputation and that means players like Bruno will be on the bench going forward, hopefully being sold to Saudi Arabia for £70-80m in January.
 
Woziak said:
Ok we need to stem the hyperbole, yesterday was one of the worst performances in the last 12 years but to think that Timo Werner is better than a all firing Rashford is absurd, put Marcus in that spurs team with the level of creativity and he scores 15 EPL games, how many times was Werner going backwards to help his left back, hardly ever?
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An 'all firing' Rashford is a myth. Spurs wouldn't carry such a lazy player in their line up.
 
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