The changing perception of our former players

Solius

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I thought I had inspired by this post.

diarm said:
In much the same way as they say "never meet your heroes", I wish Scholes had never decided to do TV after retiring. He's not particularly good at it and every time I hear him speak, it chips away at the godlike image I had of him as a player and a solid, down to earth, no nonsense pro.

It's never nice to discover your heroes are just a bit thick. Way worse when it's shoved in your face once a week on TV or the papers.
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Are there really many of our great former players left that haven't either sullied their reputation or just not improved their reputation since retiring? Is it just a case of us all getting older and realising everyone is fallible or were they just not that smart/wise in the first place?

Giggs - One of the greatest players in the history of the club, most decorated. Now almost being erased from history (not included in the PL HoF) due to his domestic violence allegations, cheating with his brother's wife, etc...

Scholes - My idol growing up. Absolute genius on the pitch but as the post above mentioned, he seems a bit thick and says some ridiculous things with his punditry. I'd say he's as bad as Paul Ince was. Failed manager too. Then you've got the weird daughter toenail thing.

Keane - Seems to mostly have his rep intact tbf but has become a bit of a caricature on Sky. Plays up to the 'bit' for sure and has become the first thing people go to after every bad result. Just perpetuates itself.

Gary Neville - Personally I think he's done great and him and Carragher changed the punditry field for the better. However he gets a lot of hate from some fans (which I do not understand). Seen as not saying enough about the Glazers. Has been overly critical of Utd over the years, possibly due to fear of being seen as biased.

Michael Carrick - One of our most consistent players was slowly morphed into someone who got mocked for just sitting on the bench looking at a monitor with Ole. Plenty of 'What does Carrick actually do' and people wanting him out. 3 game stint as manager seemed to flip him too far the other way for certain people.

Solskjaer - This one is obvious. Gave most of us the greatest moment of our lives but some absolutely despise him now and think he set the club back years.

Darren Fletcher - The current victim of the 'what does he actually do' crowd. Unsure how warranted but it doesn't feel like the overall impression of him is positive from fans.

Nicky Butt - Seems to have left the club on bad terms.

Phil Neville - Solid back-up for us for years. Played in multiple positions. Now seen as a bit of a joke, manages in the USA due to nepotism with mixed results.

You've got others like Steve Bruce (mocked manager), Mark Hughes (managed City), Schmeichel (went to City), etc...

I don't agree with a lot of these perceptions but it's undeniable there is a lot of vitriol directed at a lot of them these days. It's a bit sad.

Seems the ones with the best club relationship still are either those that stayed far away e.g. Beckham, Van Der Sar, Van Nistelrooy, Cantona, Rooney (so far) or those that have taken up small media roles within the club e.g. Robson, Cole, May, etc..
 
I love Keane even more since he became a pundit because it’s so clear he’s gives a feck. Tries to be optimistic before games and then spouts emotional drivel after they’re done, proper football fan.
 
I believe that our biggest issue is that these players enjoyed the best period in this club's history + they did so under 1 manager. This encourages a rather insular POV which can be quite frustrating
 
I never had the impression any of these lads were particularly bright, with the exception of Fletcher

Keane I thought would do well in management but he doesn't have the temperament for it

as these lads get older I can see a few of them going full Le-Tissier, too
 
I mean Scholes always seemed awkward more than anything else, kinda endearing to be honest :lol:
 
A lot of this is down to social media and the way idols get so over-exposed. It’s ironic that Beckham was pigeon-holed as the most publicity hungry but he’s turned out to be the one with the lowest profile. And much less dislikable as a result. I guess he learned his lessons younger than the other lot.
 
Title of the thread needs changing it should be former players not Legends if you are including likes of Butt, Neville and Fletcher .
 
How do one define club legend though? Seems every former player who has played for club long enough is a legend.
 
I think generally just moving away from football and not being stuck in peoples faces and generally not being a total bell end after you retire is a good way to keep your legend status intact.
 
I think Keane said it, but I remember him making a comment about the Co92 being a bit self serving. At the time it was acerbic, but I definitely agree with him now.

My perception on Fletch, Carrick, Ole, Butt hasn’t changed. All great servants at the club, and all at least tried to do something in management to help the club. If they’re not good enough, it shouldn’t warrant hate or abuse.

Out of the pundit group, I only have time for Rio and Keane. They’re the only ones who’s reputation has held up since retiring despite being in punditry. Both are fairly straight talkers, don’t have an obvious agenda or loyalty to any manager. Both are generally on the money with regards to our problems whether it’s the owners or players on bloated contracts having too much power.

Neville I have very little time for. Constant hysterical drama, sound bites, sensationalism. He’s a walking talking caricature. The less Neville on tv, or commenting on our games the better.

Scholes is just an awful pundit. One of my heroes on the pitch, but he’s just a crap pundit. About as insightful as the toenails on his daughter’s feet.
 
Gary Neville is by far the best pundit (possibly in my life time) and I have no problems with Schmeichel having gone to City (this nonsense that Player A can't go to Club B and no Liverpool player should ever come to us or go to them from us just makes me laugh: in the end it's a job and you go to a place you want to and feel wanted at; or are paid very well. I loved having Michael Owen at United).

I always said Scholesy would make an awful pundit - he's naturally a quiet bloke, clearly with very little to say. Not exactly qualities I'd look for if I was his boss. He's the bleeding flip side of Muhammad Ali!

As for Ole, on the day he go the job full time I said he was putting his legend status at risk (not with me, still love him and still stick by what I said on that day: he's not a PL manager).

Not going to comment on Giggs.

Keano: absolute legend on and off the field and even has beautiful dogs!

Bruce and Hughes: their managerial careers are pretty irrelevant to me. I wish them luck and both (in their prime) would have walked into this season's team!
 
Giggs bothers me for the none Football things, especially since he is the reason I became a fan of United. The others don't bother me, I like to complain about Gary Neville but he is alright, we are all a little bit dishonest, he just shows it on TV.
 
I don't agree with a lot of this, it's just social media magnifying every little thing someone does and also it's pretty hard to come off well in TV if you don't have the skill set for it.
Some are absolute morons who look decent on tv and vice versa.
There are obviously exceptions, gigs shat the bed by his heinous actions and sullied his pro, good guy reputation forever, I still think him getting censored like fecking Trotsky is dumb, and some of the allegations are still unproven.
The other guys who went into management of the club were unfortunately doomed to failure when things inevitably go wrong. Same thing happened with koeman at barca , previously a legend who got them their first cl and was best scoring defender and now is a bit of a joke, could happen as fast to xavi who is a goat midfielder.
Schmeichel going to city doesn't really count, they were a non factor then and I think he talked to sir Alex beforehand, nothing to hold against him and has always been clear about his love for us ever since.
Overall in this day and age you'd be better off if you didn't talk at all.

Edit: also Keane is a lovely bloke, would love to have a chat with him, he seems so genuine, a rare and admirable quality.
 
The Corinthian said:
I think Keane said it, but I remember him making a comment about the Co92 being a bit self serving. At the time it was acerbic, but I definitely agree with him now.

My perception on Fletch, Carrick, Ole, Butt hasn’t changed. All great servants at the club, and all at least tried to do something in management to help the club. If they’re not good enough, it shouldn’t warrant hate or abuse.

Out of the pundit group, I only have time for Rio and Keane. They’re the only ones who’s reputation has held up since retiring despite being in punditry. Both are fairly straight talkers, don’t have an obvious agenda or loyalty to any manager. Both are generally on the money with regards to our problems whether it’s the owners or players on bloated contracts having too much power.

Neville I have very little time for. Constant hysterical drama, sound bites, sensationalism. He’s a walking talking caricature. The less Neville on tv, or commenting on our games the better.

Scholes is just an awful pundit. One of my heroes on the pitch, but he’s just a crap pundit. About as insightful as the toenails on his daughter’s feet.
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Rio talks an awful lot of shite, he was the one that started the Ole at the wheel thing, he was number one in pushing for Ronaldo to join the club and now his 5-point plan for United includes focusing on the future and young players... after buying a 36-year-old. Then there was the stuff about England, arrogantly saying that nobody could beat them at the Euros. He's a pure bandwagoner, I don't rate his opinions at all. He is biased, I don't think he's without agenda, it's whatever suits him personally.

As for Scholes, he was my favourite player for who he was on the pitch, never for his personality off the pitch. What he is like off the pitch has nothing to do with that.
 
mitchmouse said:
Gary Neville is by far the best pundit (possibly in my life time) and I have no problems with Schmeichel having gone to City (this nonsense that Player A can't go to Club B and no Liverpool player should ever come to us or go to them from us just makes me laugh: in the end it's a job and you go to a place you want to and feel wanted at; or are paid very well. I loved having Michael Owen at United).

I always said Scholesy would make an awful pundit - he's naturally a quiet bloke, clearly with very little to say. Not exactly qualities I'd look for if I was his boss. He's the bleeding flip side of Muhammad Ali!

As for Ole, on the day he go the job full time I said he was putting his legend status at risk (not with me, still love him and still stick by what I said on that day: he's not a PL manager).

Not going to comment on Giggs.

Keano: absolute legend on and off the field and even has beautiful dogs!

Bruce and Hughes: their managerial careers are pretty irrelevant to me. I wish them luck and both (in their prime) would have walked into this season's team!
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Paul Scholes... the flipside of Muhammed Ali.
 
Regarding Keane, I think his public image is the same as it's always been; if not better due to people seeing he has a big personality and good sense of humour in recent years. The problem is that he's become quite underrated as a player. Unless we're just talking about them as people here rather than as players, too.
 
They've not sullied their reputation as players.

Surely no one thinks that because someone is amazing at football they're good at everything?

It would be more accurate to say some have tarnished their relationship with the fans.
 
Smores said:
They've not sullied their reputation as players.

Surely no one thinks that because someone is amazing at football they're good at everything?

It would be more accurate to say some have tarnished their relationship with the fans.
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Basically what I was getting at yeah.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Rio talks an awful lot of shite, he was the one that started the Ole at the wheel thing, he was number one in pushing for Ronaldo to join the club and now his 5-point plan for United includes focusing on the future and young players... after buying a 36-year-old. Then there was the stuff about England, arrogantly saying that nobody could beat them at the Euros. He's a pure bandwagoner, I don't rate his opinions at all. He is biased, I don't think he's without agenda, it's whatever suits him personally.

As for Scholes, he was my favourite player for who he was on the pitch, never for his personality off the pitch. What he is like off the pitch has nothing to do with that.
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Rio doesn’t have an agenda. He’s just not the sharpest tool in the box. We shouldn’t expect ex players to have massive intellects but him and Scholes are both way too thick for the exposure they get on TV.

Darren Fletcher is one of very few ex United players who actually comes across as smart and incisive when he talks about football. Neville too but he seems to find it impossible to be objective about United and backs himself into ridiculous corners as a result. Doesn’t help that he’s very stubborn and self-righteous.
 
Tbf I had a irrational dislike of P.Neville when he played for us. Can't explain it but he always irritated me and still does.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
A lot of this is down to social media and the way idols get so over-exposed. It’s ironic that Beckham was pigeon-holed as the most publicity hungry but he’s turned out to be the one with the lowest profile. And much less dislikable as a result. I guess he learned his lessons younger than the other lot.
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Based on him not being a pundit? That's due to people not be able to afford to book him as a regular guest. Beckham is still very much active on social media and the american scene. Which of our former players do you think is more publicity hungry?
 
Tavern in the town said:
I love Keane even more since he became a pundit because it’s so clear he’s gives a feck. Tries to be optimistic before games and then spouts emotional drivel after they’re done, proper football fan.
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So true! You just see the hope descend into rage and despair over the course of the game :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
So how I personally see some of the above and why....

Neville: Liked him when he became a pundit because he was refreshing and seemed pretty honest. He tried to hide his United bias and went far too far the other way and in my view appears to have become someone who says whatever he thinks will further his reputation as a pundit rather than what he actually thinks. Hence his views flip/flop on the regular. Occasionally he forgets himself and lets his passion for united come out and this is where i like him most - because you can tell he cares. But i'm not a fan of the seemingly fake persona that he's cultivated for TV.

Keane: He's my favorite. He plays up to his rep a little but i don't think he has to try too hard because it's simply who he is. Comes across as miserable but I think a lot of his dry humour is wasted on the pundits at Sky and he's probably a little annoyed at having to be surrounded by fellow pundits who never won a thing talk like they know about football. He's my favourite as despite his protestations about how he was badly treated at the end of his career you can tell he absolutely loves the club (taking SAF out of the equation) and I think he'd take a job there in a heart beat out of desire to fix the mess we're in.

Scholes: He's stupid, but again he clearly loves the club and was my favorite player. I think he makes a terrible pundit because he was so supremely talented that he see's football in such a simplistic view because it was very easy for him.

Carrick: Perhaps unfairly vilified during Ole's reign as we saw some tactical acumen when he took over that was previously missing. When i've heard him speak he was intelligent, humble but quiet. I still like him a lot.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Rio doesn’t have an agenda. He’s just not the sharpest tool in the box. We shouldn’t expect ex players to have massive intellects but him and Scholes are both way too thick for the exposure they get on TV.

Darren Fletcher is one of very few ex United players who actually comes across as smart and incisive when he talks about football. Neville too but he seems to find it impossible to be objective about United and backs himself into ridiculous corners as a result. Doesn’t help that he’s very stubborn and self-righteous.
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Fair enough but I feel like Rio is always looking out for himself and his image, I agree he's not too smart.
 
Devil_forever said:
Based on him not being a pundit? That's due to people not be able to afford to book him as a regular guest. Beckham is still very much active on social media and the american scene. Which of our former players do you think is more publicity hungry?
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Based on him hardly talking about the club on social media, or anywhere else. Admittedly I don’t follow him but he seems to keep himself to himself on Twitter in general. You just don’t read many opinions from him about anything. What social media does he use heavily? Instagram?
 
Opinions are unfortunately like arseholes in that everybody has one. Ex-players in the public eye are expected to give theirs. I’m sure most people here would look like proper bellends if they went on tv to give their view on United right now.
 
Beckham, Cantona and Sir Bobby seem to be the only United legends that are still universally liked by the fans it would seem. Perhaps VDS and Vidic too?
 
Scholes is the biggest disappointment for me, if you can call it that. Probably my favorite ever United player, but he constantly comes out with incredibly stupid statements, and had a very obvious Ole bias. It is just made more surprising by the fact that he was famously tight-lipped during his playing days, which was a trait I quite liked.

He is the reminder that you have to separate the football player from the pundit/manager/coach/etc.
 
Weirdly, Beckham, for all the media hysteria and abuse and attention he got when he was playing, is probably the most liked and seemingly least dickheady of all of those players now.

I'd say Rooney is kinda similar too but he's obviously not been out of the game nearly as long.
 
Blood Mage said:
Beckham, Cantona and Sir Bobby seem to be the only United legends that are still universally liked by the fans it would seem. Perhaps VDS and Vidic too?
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Vidic annoyed me with the way he agreed to leave mid season. We had 6 months of not being great and he fecked off at the first opportunity. Now in hindsight he was right because it was a sinking ship, however he was our captain and you’d have expected him to stay and dig in.
 
United has the highest number of ex players who are pundits now...most tried to manage teams but failed woefully..but when you hear them speak about managers you would think they’re world class coaches.
 
Well it's probably a combination of getting older and that we now know all the negative things these players have been/are involved in. That and footballers are apparently overpaid primadonnas with inflated senses of self importance - who knew paying teenagers millions of pounds could do that to a kid? They generally don't seem to be aware of their own bad behaviour and it's quite shocking to know how much crap was tolerated amongst players and by the club through the years.

Giggs is the one that fell the furthest for me. He came off as a great guy, professional, hard working and a role model. The kind of player you would want all players to aspire to become. Then you get to know the guy and he's pretty damn horrible. It even hurts to write that, but his off-field stuff has certainly made him very unlikable. He isn't the only one though. Wayne Rooney's constant need for prostitute hasn't been all that great. Personally I don't want him as manager because of it. He can't keep it in his pants long enough to avoid the club ending up in a full blown scandal on the front page of every tabloid. Butt had to quit his job at the academy because of allegations of domestic assault - a few years later the whole Greenwood thing happens - which when seen together is a horrible look for our academy.

However, there are some who I think have actually risen quite a bit in esteem after retirement. Gary is the obvious one, went from being full on anti-scouse, and to be fair - seeming a bit thick at times - to a competent pundit that together with another player that seemed a bit thick at the time (Carragher) has created the most entertaining and interesting punditry duo on television. Keane seems less agressive, less angry and pretty much a decent guy - if a bit old-fashioned in his thinking. He's shown that he's more than just an angry bloke, is often correct in his criticism and while he's blunt - he's pretty authentic. Even has a character in Ted Lasso based on him. Rio Ferdinand is just a great guy. Love listening to him, because he's basically just a fan that doesn't take his own opinion too seriously. He doesn't have a complicated agenda, or pretend to know everything, he's just being Rio. It's awesome to see that at heart he's just a fan - one that gets over the top excited when we sign Ronaldo and devastated when we're crap.

When it comes to Ole, Fletcher and Carrick, I can't say that my opinion on them has changed significantly. I don't blame Ole for the board not being able to make correct decisions and at the correct time - I truly believe he did the best he was able to, and you can't expect much more than that from a guy basically thrown into it. I feel the same is true for a lot of these guys, they are basically just thrown into it by a club management that isn't actually sure what they are doing. Fletcher is getting a lot of stick for no reason at all really. Carrick has the highest win rate of any of our managers, and he was obviously not at fault for us being crap - If he and McKenna coached with two-three highly experienced well respect coaches above them, no one bats an eyelid.

Scholes is just a bad pundit, who cares?
 
Neville is an odd one because he's often criticized for going too far in the opposite direction so as not to come off as biased. And it is true - he does do that. But I notice he only does it on commentary. Everything outside of that, he talks about the club as you would expect a fan to talk about the club. His love for the club really shines through.

Must be the emotion of the moment when he's on commentary.

I still love Keane, but Scholes is just a bit dull, isn't he? He doesn't really say much of interest, and what he does say is said in a very monotonous drawl. I must admit, I wasn't really that attached to Butt or Phil Neville even when they were playing for us. Giggs is still a United legend, for me, but there's no ignoring his off-field antics, unfortunately.
 
Van Der Sar looks to be the only one whose demeanor stay the same after retiring as a footballer. Still classy, rocking suits., respectable and mature, calm and composed.
 
We have basically become Liverpool.
Long successful spell long gone, and a mass set of the players from that successful period queuing up to stick the boot in.
 
Solius said:
Vidic annoyed me with the way he agreed to leave mid season. We had 6 months of not being great and he fecked off at the first opportunity. Now in hindsight he was right because it was a sinking ship, however he was our captain and you’d have expected him to stay and dig in.
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Vidic’s legs were gone though, he played less than 30 games for Inter and then retired. Wouldn’t have offered much more if he ‘dug in’, he was done.
 
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